What makes a Bad Story?

[Huckleman2000]

Not too much to add, but I'm so damn close to 100 posts that I just can't help myself.

Sex in the second paragraph. If early-story sex is a choice, there should be a reason, and hopefully it doesn't need to be spelled out first.

Spell-checker editing. I see this all too often in stories from authors that I really like, otherwise. (BrightlyIBurn, are you reading?) Was it Ogg's example of taut/taunt above? That stuff drives me nuts after awhile, and I try to offer my proofreading services in PMs, to no avail.

Scatological tangents. This is subjective, I suppose, but when fetishistic things I wasn't expecting get introduced in a gratuitous way, it just makes me think that the real fetish is the author's desire to shock.

 

[oggbashan]

Octavian,

True enough, I've drifted from the original thread but reading it brought up memories of things I’ve read and the following responses made to people who only wanted some constructive criticism and not a tongue lashing.

There exist on this web site those who believe them selves to be superior (which may be true in this case) but I abhor them taking delight in pointing out that the author would be better off learning the finer points of suicide.

I only wanted to point out that to complain about the quality of the work without taking an active role to improve it only leads to a continued surplus of material to hate.

Perhaps this is the goal of those who continue to take this stand?
At any rate I’ve probably worn out this line of reasoning.

Thanks to those of you who took a minute to think about what I’ve put forth.

Jmt

It is very difficult to accept even constructive criticism on your creative work.

I appreciate my errors being pointed out, for example when I confuse characters' names or my story doesn't work, but I feel hurt when the criticism is about the story not being what the reader wanted. Why should my characters be into BDSM, or want to fuck their mothers? Unless that is what I intended.

Criticism, even well-intentioned, can be painful for a new writer. If the writer has no idea of using a spell-checker, or the grammar is very bad, or the storytelling skill is missing - I don't consider that I can help by PMing or by sending private or public feedback. All I can hope is that the author realises their shortcomings and improves over time.

I am reluctant to give feedback to anyone, however much I appreciate it for myself, because I know I have a tendency to be over-critical. If I like a story I might say so but beyond that, unless someone asks me directly for advice, I won't go. I appreciate the work done by people in the story discussion circle, as voluntary editors, on the poetry forum and in the AH. They have a skill I don't have - the ability to make criticism acceptable and worthwhile. Even they must come across hopeless cases where criticism cannot help because the basic skills are lacking.

I would never tell anyone to learn their grammar. If they haven't got a basic idea of writing complete sentences they are beyond my help or are likely to be insulted if I point out the lack.

Og

 

[impressive]

I appreciate the work done by people in the story discussion circle, as voluntary editors, on the poetry forum and in the AH. They have a skill I don't have - the ability to make criticism acceptable and worthwhile.

I'll second THAT! I gave it a whirl -- sucked at it -- withdrew. I still read, though, in the hopes of learning from the masters.

 

[Mark James]

Take me there

When I click into a short story, the first thing I'm looking for is whether or not the writer knows how to pull the reader into the story.

I'm pretty generous about how far into the story I'll give the writer. If there are loads of grammatical errors or spelling errors, that ruins it for me, and I'll click back.

If however, the reader can manage to spark my imagination and make me see/hear/feel the characters or the story near the beginning, I'm willing to stick with it.

Not all writers write at the same level, so I'm willing to give everyone a fair chance. But don't piss me off with nonsense like, "I saw her and my cock was a throbbing rocket ready for take off." That will make me click back immediately.

On the other hand, if a writer can seduce me into their story with something like "I saw her and I knew I had to have her or die trying." Ok. Good. Now I'm intrigued. Why would you have to die to have a woman? Why do you have to have her? That will keep me reading, even if it's a mediocre writer.

There's something that good writing has that goes beyond the page. Good writing will build a scene, a feeling, something that is greater than the sum of the parts.

For me good writing isn't about using fancy words or even getting all the spelling right, it's about seduction, about making me want more, about making me sorry that the story's over once I've read the last word.

 

[oggbashan]

Thank you, Mark James

I agree with many of the points you make.

I am pleased that you have visited the AH. I hope that you will add more to some of the threads because you have views worth hearing. 17 posts isn't many so far.

Please join in.

Regards,

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

Not too much to add, but I'm so damn close to 100 posts that I just can't help myself.

Sex in the second paragraph. If early-story sex is a choice, there should be a reason, and hopefully it doesn't need to be spelled out first.

Spell-checker editing. I see this all too often in stories from authors that I really like, otherwise. (BrightlyIBurn, are you reading?) Was it Ogg's example of taut/taunt above? That stuff drives me nuts after awhile, and I try to offer my proofreading services in PMs, to no avail.

Scatological tangents. This is subjective, I suppose, but when fetishistic things I wasn't expecting get introduced in a gratuitous way, it just makes me think that the real fetish is the author's desire to shock.

Hi, Huck,
I must take some exception with what you say. Most of my stories are stricty smut and I often start the sex, at least foreplay, in the second or third paragraph. In the first few lines I describe the situation, usually saying something like "she really loves it when I eat her pussy" and then I get into the sex. The fact that all the parties enjoy it is reason enough.

I use the spellchecker when I am unsure o the proper spelling of some words. I don't count on it, though, because it is too easy for a typo to produce a perfectly proper word, such as live/love, to/too, over/overt, suck/sick, or many others, including taut/taunt. I edit everything many times, especially watching for errors like those.

I don't know what you mean by "scatological tangents". Asses are often penetrated by tongues, fingers or cocks but this is as part of the sex. Analingus is only performed on an ass that is squeaky clean. I will never write a story that involves shit. I may include a fetish but not one that I find disgusting.

In the words of Yogi Bear"Good luck, Huck"

 

[Mark James]

Re: Thank you, Mark James

I agree with many of the points you make.

I am pleased that you have visited the AH. I hope that you will add more to some of the threads because you have views worth hearing. 17 posts isn't many so far.

Please join in.

Regards,

Og

Og:

Thanks. I love the forums, and "listening" to what people have to say. I try to add my two cents worth whenever I have time. At the moment, the so-called "real" world is a bit demanding of my time. Things should settle down after the holidays.

MJ

 

[N8Dreams]

I appreciate this thread very much. Very good points were listed.
But perhaps we should discuss what makes a GOOD STORY?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Bad Characters.

If the characters are fascinating and unique, they can aid a plagarized or unoriginal plot. If I am emotionally vested in a character I'll overlook spelling errors in descriptions or bad grammar.

Example is a show called Stellvia with an overall hackneyed sci-fi plot and a few groan worthy cliche moments, but the characters are interesting enough that I watched the entire 26-episode series in one long night.

If not, if they use shitty dialogue, if they're wooden and have no depth, then it impairs a lot of things.

The character rule also expands further than just stories I'm reading. I apply the rule to myself in the stories I'm writing. I'll zip through and reread the scenes with the characters I think were done well, but I'll constantly scrutinize and want to excize any section where the characters are boring, cliched, or flat unless I can spin a joke at their own clichedness.

Originality would be the second-most important thing. If the work has only moderately interesting characters but a detailed and amazingly original plot, I'll overlook a bland style.

The third would be the style it's written in. If the originality and characters are only moderate, but the person is saying it in a way that's brilliant, I'll overlook things.


Overall though the best is a combination of all three, which is why I worship Douglas Adams, Ray Bradbury, Neil Gaiman, and Edgar Allen Poe so much.

 

[domjoe]

I look for only one thing (and no, it's not sex): Originality.

 

[woodnymph_O]

hmm still figuring that one out

i have to have something draw me into a story in the first 2 paragrahs or so , and when sex is comprised of ,he put it in he took it out ,, its not the greatest either.
also descriptions that are not sexy,, i.e. "her pussy made a loud sound as it released pent up air." no i didnt make that one up either
nymphy

 

[Chimney Sweep]

Short attention span

I'll usually read the first few paragraphs and then jump tot he bottom to see how many pages are there. More than 3 and I'm out. I read slowly and don't have the time, and I am usually not interested for that long. A good story takes time to set up but I am very much of the opinion that a short story should be fairly short. I don't mean this as a judgement, just a personal opinion. I'm sure I am missing out on some great work because I can't stick with it.

One thing that throws me is too many characters. Group scenes need to be handled correctly (not saying I can, just that some can't.) If every guy at the gang-bang has a name and a history it gets a little crowded. I've got a story that is absolutely stalled due to character overload. I figure that if I have to read back through it to get the characters straight then I've already lost anything I hoped to accomplish with the reader. Perhaps a better writer could manage it, but that wouldn't be me.

"Sex scenes" turn me off, generally. A blowjob is a blowjob - so what? I want to have a reason to care about one or the other of the participants. I always try to build characters who have a reason to be excited and to convey that excitement to the reader. Foreplay is necessary in writing, too. Just not TOO much.

 

[Marsipanne]

Well, generally in writing, it's originality. However, in lit stories, I'm a bit fussier because sex is such a cerebral thing (gawd, that sounds weird, but I think it's true. Sex is the best route to self-discovery, imho). Anyway, I have to like the characters. If I read the first paragraph and the character doesn't appeal to me for some reason or another, then back-click. Character like/dislike is 100% taste.

My friend told me to read Georgette Heyer. I bought 'Friday's Child'. Now, in romance, you want to have an attractive male lead. But the guy got rejected in the first chapter. That, for some reason, just put me off him for the rest of the book and I didn't like the book in general. The storyline was kind of boring too. Not exactly original either. I've read some similar ones (although they might have been the copies of Friday's Child. Who knows?)
When it comes to sex and romance or basically the animal urge to find a mate/partner whatever, the character comes first. I can excuse bad spelling punctuation and grammar to an extent.

 

[hmmnmm]

Well, I know my own writing can stand much improvement - I know where my various weaknesses are (hopefully) and try to give them proper attention. Therefore, I am very hesitant to hand out criticism of another's work, at least from Writer to Writer.
Also, being new here, I scout around the many posted stories, getting ideas, often for pure entertainment, learning in general - even if a story does not do much for me there is usually something in it that can improve and entertain. For example, one I read did not exactly keep me through the words, but one of the female characters was given a ponytail - obvious when you see it, but sometimes don't think of it yourself. "Ah! of course! why did I not think of that?"
As there are so many stories, I will offer this word with a mountain of hesitation because there will certainly be many that you all could point out that do not suffer from what generally turns me away from a story.
And what I've noticed that tends to put me away, is the lack of conflict
Even many that have excellent opening paragraphs of setting descriptions and the character descriptions, and then the actual sex acts, all well done. I learn from them. But again, the activities go from A to B with little if any pause, or conflict, or tension or suspense. And I recall the stories that DID KEEP me (here and other places, whenever I have read erotic/porn) consisted of at least a thread of conflict. Now, I understand that if you're trying to tell a story in 3-4,000 words and the story is designed to featured happy orgasming people, then there is really not the space for intensive development of that conflict/tension/playing with opposites. But it could be dropped in some place - this helps keep my attention anyway -
Anyway don't know if that made any sense.