what is this?

[cymbidia]

Kneel on one side.
Stomach over the raised part.
Head and arms down onto the other low part.
Eyebolts for locking cuffs and other restraints close and tight.

When secured properly, a sub has very little room to move and her skin - back, ass, thighs - are fully available to her Dom for his use in whatever manner he sees fit.

It's more comfortable than you might imagine, if you relax into the bondage.

The thing is called a "bondage bench".

Taking a chainsaw to such a fine piece of equipment would be a crime.
Just say "no thanks, not for me" and walk away.
Chainsawing it is overkill.

 

[JenJ]

hey ummmmmmmmmmm untie me will ya i think they got the idea how this works................

*untieing April* You shouldn't have been kneeling there sweetie someone else could have done that

 

[Savage Kitten]

Just say "no thanks, not for me" and walk away.

great point. don't knock it till you've tried it. and if you don't have the backbone to give it a try ... just walk away. Being forced to do something, against your will, is not part of BDSM. The key word is, consentual.

 

[Silverlily]

hmmmmmm...

Birthday's only four weeks away...

Oh honey!!!

 

[bluntforcemama]

In my own opinion it's just another symbol of how to make someone less than your equal, and I'd like nothing better than to rip it to shreds and drive the slivers into the heart of any person who would treat another human that they should be loving like a slave or an animal.

That's how I feel, and I'm entitled to my own thoughts. This is something that I will NOT budge on. It makes me so angry I can hardly contain my nerves. This sort of behavior of humilation and pain is at the top of my shitlist, it makes me physically ill. I can't even begin to describe the anger that consumes me. I'm not knocking it, I'm abhoring it.

I researched and looked into BDSM for a while, just trying to see what other people saw. I got all the details, the feelings, I talked to both Doms and subs and then I cried for days and kicked the crap out of every kickboxing opponent I could.

Don't assume that I'm ignorant of the subject. Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I know nothing about it. I probably know a lot more than you could imagine. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I understand it, and I hate it. I understand that some people really get off on pain, on humiliation, on being tied up and treated like a dog. But for me, I'd rather be an equal. No one is above me, nor will I give my body to anyone to use. I'm a human, not a ragdoll.

Are we clear?

 

[beckbabe]

Cymbidia, you know everything my dear. Thank you. I won't go so far as Myst with my feelings, but I think bad games lead to bad results. Simple minded...yes, but there are those who are even more simple minded, who take the idea of BDSM to their own, possibly even deadly, ends.

PS: Myst I thought your avatar was a submissive woman...I'm confused again. God I feel like the girl who thinks babies come from the cabbage patch. Where's my freaking dictionary???? OK it's 7 am...I'll figure it out later

 

[WriterDom]

In my own opinion it's just another symbol of how to make someone less than your equal, and I'd like nothing better than to rip it to shreds and drive the slivers into the heart of any person who would treat another human that they should be loving like a slave or an animal.

That's how I feel, and I'm entitled to my own thoughts. This is something that I will NOT budge on. It makes me so angry I can hardly contain my nerves. This sort of behavior of humilation and pain is at the top of my shitlist, it makes me physically ill. I can't even begin to describe the anger that consumes me. I'm not knocking it, I'm abhoring it.

I researched and looked into BDSM for a while, just trying to see what other people saw. I got all the details, the feelings, I talked to both Doms and subs and then I cried for days and kicked the crap out of every kickboxing opponent I could.

Don't assume that I'm ignorant of the subject. Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I know nothing about it. I probably know a lot more than you could imagine. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I understand it, and I hate it. I understand that some people really get off on pain, on humiliation, on being tied up and treated like a dog. But for me, I'd rather be an equal. No one is above me, nor will I give my body to anyone to use. I'm a human, not a ragdoll.

Are we clear?

I don't think talking to a few people in an internet chatroom qualifies you as an expert. And the terms you use- less than your equal- animal- humiliation- pain- treated like a dog- ragdoll, tells me you didn't do a very extensive research. Does cymbidia strike you as someone who is a ragdoll? Do you think she surrenders her power to anyone Dominate? I don't see her rushing home from a long days work to be humiliated. I don't think a submissive seeks pain, but rather the thin boundary between pain and pleasure. A nibble on a nipple could be considered painful, but yet in the right mood it produces more intense feelings than a soft gentle lick. A spanking to a child is not the same thing as the warm pleasurable feelings of a strong hand on of upturned buttocks of a willing submissive. A Dom doesn't use bondage to control a sub, but rather to free her. As you remove senses, it tends to heighten others.

The whole dynamics of Dom/sub is submissive driven. She sets the limits, she utters one word and all play stops. Are there ragdoll subs? I'm sure there are many different kinds of people who fade in and out of D/s roles. But often, you'll find medical doctors, psychologists, lawyers, or corporate executives who find balance in their lives from a lifestyle choice that is much different from the Jerry Springer circus of abusive relationships that you are trying to pass off as being bdsm.

No one is trying to convert you. No one seriously cares if you do hate what you perceive as our lifestyle. I just think you picked up some really bad information somewhere.

 

[beckbabe]

From The Joy of Sex-

...anything in the mouth must be firm,musn't block breathing,and must be quick release in case the subject signals danger - from choking, feeling sick, or any other source of discomfort. This signal ( and this goes for all ALL bondage games) must be agreed to beforehand and never abused or ignored...

...The Federal safety code should be observed...

1) Nothing may ever be tied round the front of anybody's neck, however loosely, and even if they ask for it.

2)Nothing soft or loose, which can get into the throat,...may be put in anyone's mouth, or over their face, and all gags or knots must be qiuck release.

3)Nobody helpless may ever be left alone,even briefly,especially face down, or on a soft surface like a bed. Don't leave your parter tied up and go to bed, especially after drinking. Don't keep anyone tied up for more than a half an hour.

4)Play bondage games only with people you know, not only socially but sexually, never with aquaintances, and aviod group scenes. This goes for couples as well as partners - some people are careless, and others are sadists.

Apart from this, cruelty of any sort, tying someone who is really scared of the idea, tight cords, stuffing things in people's mouths, idiot tricks like hanging people up by any part of their anatomy, and the whole sadie- mae routine, which to straight couples is simply painful and a turn-off, belong to psychopathology not lovemaking. ...there's more but this is long...

 

[cymbidia]

oh my...

... how did we get here again?

To begin with, all consensual sexual play is good. Whether or not you would choose to participate in it at this time in your life is irrelevant to its inherent "goodness" to other people. None of us has any moral right to pass judgment on someone else's sexual choices, providing those choices DO NOT involve doing anything to someone who is unwilling .

The very best any of us can do is make good choices for ourselves, according to what we need and want, and to find a partner who approximately mirrors our needs. If we pass judgment on the choices other people make, we're guilty of the worst kind of scared bigotry. In that case, other people have a right to pity us, first, for our provincial thinking, and, secondly, they have the right and the obligation to try to help us see that another way of existing has validity.

Are we clear on that?

Beckbabe, i don't know everything. So very sorry if i gave that impression. I do know a lot about some of the things this place discusses with frequency; those subjects, however, are not the sum total of "everything" there is to know, as doubtless you're aware. I will, however, try to tone down my spouting off of info if people find it offensive.

Myst, i'm sure you made what you consider a wholehearted effort to investigate the D/s lifestyle and it's attendant psychologies. I'm sure you think you got everything you could get - and still hate and fear the thing as just plain wrong. Such is your right, of course.

However, from my years and years of perspective in the area of Dom/sub relationships, i have to conclude that you're approaching the whole thing from with a very shallow view of what we do together, we who need this kind of shared intensity, and that your entire perception is irrevocably tainted by preexisting emotions of fear, horror, disgust.

We hate what we don't understand.
We fear what scares us.
Ignorance always breeds hate and fear.

You may not understand or like what other - so many others - choose to do with their sexual lives, but that doesn't make them, or it, less wildly fulfilling for those involved.

We who must choose BDSM practices to express our sexuality are long used to barbs and arrows slung at us from those who simply don't understand WHY or HOW WE COULD do what we do with each other. BDSM as a lifestyle has been a thing of the shadows and of whispers for almost all of human history. It's just since the net came up that we have been able to find others like ourselves with anything approaching ease. It's just since the net came up that we’ve had the wildly exciting opportunity to tell other people WHY we do what we do and HOW WE NEED this in ours lives.

I am a highly educated, eminently capable, professional, aware, astute, verbal, very attractive woman. I'm a sexual submissive. I'm a mother. I'm a homeowner, several times over. I have a good-looking stock portfolio. I'm a sexual masochist. I'm smarter than the average bear. I'm not going to be silent any longer when ignorance debases that which i need to be whole.

I defy anyone to show how i'm a "rag doll" or in what manner my relationship with the one who holds my heart and my submission is anything but incredibly loving and mutually fulfilling.

If BDSM isn't for you, ignore it.

We who do it with conscience, we who apply the many principles that govern the interactions of submissives and their Dominants on an everyday basis, will ignore your dislike in return.

But don't ask us to be silent when you attack us about it. We've done that through too many long years of human history and, now, we're done being attacked in silence.

 

[WriterDom]

I talked to both Doms and subs

I remember you having a bad experience. Would you care to go into a little more depth?

Unfortunately the anonymity of the web self-anoints anyone to take on any identity they choose. And with the explosion of interest in sexuality, especially with women who are drawn to, or are curious about, submission or bdsm, there are many self serving sexual predators who shroud their intentions under the disguise of being a Dom. These range from guys who want a one night stand, to really dangerous control freaks or misogynists.. Someone like Todd for example, could create the screenname SirTodd, put a few buzz words in his profile, and presto chango, he’s a Dom, and how is someone to know who is peeking into this world with very little knowledge going to know that he just transformed 5 minutes ago. I’m sure someone like cym would sniff him out in a moment, but if he’s been around a bit, it’s not hard to fool a newbe.

 

[bluntforcemama]

I remember you having a bad experience. Would you care to go into a little more depth?

Sure... I have a scar three inches long from a stab wound on my lower back. Guess who put it there?



I really don't think that D/s people are bad, that's not what I'm saying, although it's coming out in my rage as something close to a personal attack, and for that, I apologize. When something is obviously so emotional to you, it's hard to seperate yourself from the feelings. My research has been extensive, not just limited to a few. Perhaps something has skewed my perception, but nonetheless, it's VERY hard for me to accept. For me, it all comes down to loving as equals.

 

[lavender]

 

[cymbidia]

Additionally...

... the highest, most sacred responsibility a Dominant has to their submissive is to insure her safety and well-being at all times (that means, not just when they're being sexual), emotionally, physically, psychically, religiously, and in any other way she needs to be reassured and assured she is safe.

The highest, most scared duty a submissive has to her Dominant is to be open to him, to allow him unlimited access into her heart and mind and soul, and so enable him to make good decisions regarding their shared lives. Truth and honesty; that's what we owe our Dominants.

BDSM is not really a thing one does when one is in mood. For many of us, it's a philosophy more than anything, a way we move through our days.

There are (literally) millions of "seekers after knowledge", however, who are curious about BDSM practices. For them, the net has been a godsend. For them, information is as close as the millions of web pages devoted to this subject (some of them good, many of them not so good, to be honest).

Every one of us BDSM lifestylers who is at all vocal in any way anywhere on the net has been approached by people who want to talk with us about it, want to know more, want to scene with us via icq or some chat room or even in person. Every one of us who are lifestylers has to make our own decision regarding how far we'll go to help these seekers-after-knowledge but every single one of us helps, even in some small way, when asked .

I have a Dom friend, single, accomplished, verbal and witty, who told me not long ago that submission seems to be "in"; the women he meets are, by-in-large, fascinated with the idea of it and usually want to try it on a little. Most back away, though, when the reality of the degree of trust, the absolute necessity for giving a huge part of yourself into the care and keeping of your partner, become apparent. Perhaps these might-be submissives aren't ready; perhaps they determined that real BDSM (not the "beat me, make me scream, ooooohhhh - now fuck me hard" crap variety) isn't for them. In either case, it's better they learn that and move on to whatever will next capture their interest.

We don't want people fearing and hating what we do and need as naturally as some other crave and desire egalitarian relationships their partners. The net has been a real boon to us in that info about our "differences" is slowly permeating out into regular ordinary society. (Check out advertising sometime, print and TV.)

BDSM is about control. It's about the releasing of the deepest parts of each person into the keeping of the other for the benefit of both. The expression of that control and trust is what makes some people flinch away but, in truth, there are as many brands and kinds and flavors of what people in committed BDSM relationships do together as there are in any other relationship.

You don't like pain? Don't do anything that contains it!
You don't like humiliation? (I don't - it puts me into a very bad headspace.) Don't do it! (My Dom/mes have always been very careful when doing anything at all with this with me because i always verbalize my fear about this during the really extended talking phase we engage in before anyone ever touches anyone. Truth and openness, again, on my part. Extreme care for me on theirs.)
You don't like bondage? Gags? You only want to do this part time, the rest of the time you want it to be an equal thing? You want to be on Top sometimes? Do it! Find someone who likes what you like and just make it fit your needs.

Or don't do it at all. That's okay, too.

Just don't come to us blasting fear and hate and ignorance and expect us to take such an attitude in quiet.

We won't attack you personally; we all have better control than that (usually ~s~). But we will defend what's natural and right and necessary to us as sexual people, just as you would were your sexuality under attack.

 

[bluntforcemama]

PS: Myst I thought your avatar was a submissive woman...I'm confused again. God I feel like the girl who thinks babies come from the cabbage patch. Where's my freaking dictionary???? OK it's 7 am...I'll figure it out later

Nay, it's a twisted version of Little Miss Muppet, by Gerald Brom. I suppose the mask does make it look a little submissive.

Lavy, don't worry too much about me, I can hold my own. That incident was the catalyst for taking up kickboxing. I may not be able to come to terms with my experiences with BDSM to the point of acceptance, but what people do in the privacy of their own homes is of no concern to me.

cym, and WD... if it makes you happy, I'm not going to condemn you for it.

 

[Silverlily]

We've heard from the Dom and the sub, let's hear from a switch.

I am also not a "ragdoll". I do not let anyone treat me as a lesser person or an animal. I am a retail professional, top in my company. I spent many years working in a male-dominated military field and held my own. I am also a mother, a wife, a top, a boss, and a bottom. Is every sexual encounter I experience a BDSM scene? No, but I still need that level of intensity.

I am not totally Domme or totally sub. Sometimes I have to be the one orchestrating the moment, other times I have to be the one to revel in it. In either case, I have to be much more aware of my true feelings as well of those of my partner. I have to so alert for that sign that this is uncomfortable. Complete honesty is crucial. As is complete trust. I have to trust my partner to be honest and I have to trust myself to accept that honesty and act accordingly.

There are so many facets to the BDSM lifestyle, allowing those that choose (key word here) to participate endless ways to express their desires. It's not about whips and spreader bars, benches or piercings; it's about the incredable freedom to express yourself, all sides of yourself, and having someone to share it with.

For those not into BDSM, fine, to each his own. But do not take the basest stereotype and assume everyone that is fits that category. To do so is narrowminded and simply incorrect.

 

[bluntforcemama]

I'm backing off of this topic, I think it's come to a point where neither side is willing to budge or admit to anything that the other side sees. Not only that, but I'm afraid I'll say something terrible without thinking before I say it. If that makes me narrowminded and childish, than so be it.

 

[cymbidia]

Sure... I have a scar three inches long from a stab wound on my lower back. Guess who put it there?

I'm sorry for the pain, physical and emotional, such a trauma must have caused - is still causing - in your life.

Anyone who deserves the title "Dominant" would never do such a thing to his submissive. It's the antithesis of his absolute obligation to protect you and show you more care than he shows to anyone else in the world.

Myst, there are a BUNCH BDSM pretenders out in the world, and many more than a bunch on the net, as WD so graphically pointed out with his Todd example. On the net, who can know who anyone else is? In the day-to-day world, even if someone does know the right words to say, how does one tell (if you are also inexperienced) if he really has no clue what a real, loving, emotionally-bonded, power exchange relationship entails?

We're all simply looking for love, aren't we? Sometimes we look in the wrong places. Sometimes we get hurt. But we keep looking; that's what people do - keep looking. Eventually we find what need. You will, too.


(~adding in a warm appreciation for Kitten Eyes' wise perspective and bubbling laughter for WD's chainsaw-and-bondage-bench comment~)

 

[WriterDom]

I'm backing off of this topic, I think it's come to a point where neither side is willing to budge or admit to anything that the other side sees. Not only that, but I'm afraid I'll say something terrible without thinking before I say it. If that makes me narrowminded and childish, than so be it.

fine, just keep your chainsaw away from my bench and I'll be happy.

 

[bluntforcemama]

fine, just keep your chainsaw away from my bench and I'll be happy.

Hey, don't get pissy with me, I already made it clear that if it made you happy, fine.

 

[WriterDom]

Don't you just love people that start shit, and then have to get the last word in? You really don't have a lot of offer this conversation Myst, so I put you on ignore. How narrowminded and childish is that?

 

[bluntforcemama]

That's nice of you. I think you grossly misunderstood me. That really hurt... thanks.

 

[IndianaJones]

There's no need for me to address the BDSM nor the lethal weapons aspect of this thread. It's been done enough. But I would like to offer a thought on the concept of "equality" in sexual relations. I think it can be a bit over rated. Or at least a bit over simplified. To me sex is like ballroom dancing: for the best results somebody has to lead and somebody has to follow. Or in the succinct and elegant words of the inestimable Dr. Carole Queen, "Somebody's got to run the fuck."

Gotta run.

 

[cymbidia]

C'mon guys...

Someone pretending to Domhood has physically and emotionally scarred Myst. The fact remains that he couldn't have been a real Master cuz real Master's don't treat their subs in such a manner. There's a gigantic, enormous difference between abuse and anything we do within the embrace of the BDSM lifestyle. Safe, sane and consensual; it's not just a motto, it's the way we act and react and live our lives.

Nonetheless, Myst was badly hurt by some asshole pretender Dom.
She's scarred and scared.
Scared people sometimes lash out at the symbols of their fear.
That would be the BDSM’ers who stand up way tall here at Lit, right?

I can understand lashing out.
I can understand people saying, aloud, too, what others may be thinking and not daring to say.
I think Myst was kinda brave, actually, to risk the sure censure she was going to get by saying what she said - here - in this thread - to us who *would* and *will* respond to all such provocation.

I also understand that WriterDom is sick of being a target. He's sick of defending his sexuality, for god’s sakes, against anyone who wants to take any kinda potshot at something they don't understand. I'm tired of it, too. Over here in BDSMland we're all tired of seeing something as incredibly personal as our sexuality dragged through the mud by people who often don't have clue to the infinitely tender and wildly fulfilling relationships we've forged with another like us.

I can understand his frustration.
I can understand his wanting to insulate himself from more of it, for now.
I know he knows, though, that he cannot be here, in here, on the net, and be insulated from Myst's feelings about BDSM and those who participate in it, or anyone else's either. It's just not possible.

Myst is an open-minded person. I know, too, by private communications that she's upset that her feelings came out in such a negative manner but - hey - who among us has not, once or twice (at least), spouted off when they should have kept silent or they should have moderated their words?

For my part, i welcome the opportunity to get into Big Time Lecture Mode and tell you my truth. I'll just keep doing it, too, every time someone comes off like Myst did. Gives me the tiny little opening i need to ramble on and on and on and on and on...

You can put me on ignore if you like, though. Won't hurt my feelings at all.

 

[beckbabe]

Re: oh my...

Beckbabe, i don't know everything. So very sorry if i gave that impression. I do know a lot about some of the things this place discusses with frequency; those subjects, however, are not the sum total of "everything" there is to know, as doubtless you're aware. I will, however, try to tone down my spouting off of info if people find it offensive

Cymbidia, I know this thread has turned into a massive fight, but I actually meant that. You have been the only one to answer my questions 3 or 4 times. I apreciated it, I'm sorry you thought I was being sarcastic. I didn't even know you were a "sub" nor does it change my feelings one bit. I wrote what I wrote about "bad games" because someone who dearly loves someone else, can almost kill them out of ignorance of safety rules. That is also why I posted the rules... that is what happened when I tried BDSM with someone I love who knew as little as I did... My focus here is the safety issue, and I really can't say more because I don't know more. Besides, I thought we were kinda friends.

Myst, please don't take this the wrong way, but that is a problem to be dealt with by an analyst , not a chatroom. Certainly no one here is qualified to help with deal with the post traumatic stress of such a horrible experience. This isn't a blow off...just a suggestion that counseling is worth its weight in gold.

 

[roosterboy]

Is this the thread that is sitting in a circle singing koom-by-ya (spelling)?