What Is Pine Ridge?

[Joe Wordsworth]

I didn't want to clutter the other thread...

So, what is Pine Ridge? And is there something to it beyond Wikipedia?

And aren't they the people that banned abortions, including the rape related kind?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Its a very poor Indian Reservation

Cloudy can give you the details.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Cloudy can give you the details.

Oh, boy.

Nevermind.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Oh, boy.

Nevermind.

LOL.

 

[cantdog]

I'll be driving through there next month in the trusty Fecus. I understand it's a fine big chunk of Third World in western S. Dak., but I'll give you a PM report on it after I see it, if you like.

 

[sethp]

I think Wiki gives a good over view of it and links to all kinds of articles and organizations that are active there.

Bad stuff happened there in the past. They just stopped caring though.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I didn't want to clutter the other thread...

So, what is Pine Ridge? And is there something to it beyond Wikipedia?

And aren't they the people that banned abortions, including the rape related kind?

Yes, there is something to it beyond wikipedia. At the bottom of every wikipedia entry there are outside links and references-- ten outside links and twenty references in this case.

Yes, the Oglala council has banned abortion. One tribal elder announced that she would bring a clinic to the res, and was impeached as a result. You can learn this from the wikipedia article. Which leads me to think that you haven't. Here it is. A quick Google search will give you more. It's so easy to educate yourself.

And you wonder why Cloudy gets pissed off?

 

[sethp]

Here's a ling for a relief project for pine ridge.

http://www.simplebrilliance.com/pineridge.htm

Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while others state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal

Median income is $2,600 per year with 85% to 95% unemployment

* Infant mortality rate 300% higher than the U.S. national average

* Diabetes and Tuberculosis rates 800% higher than the U.S. national average

* Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing)

* At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems

* Water table polluted by uranium and agricultural chemicals


with 40,000 residents sitting on 2 million acres of land. with 85% unemployment that means that 34,000 people have time to work together to correct some of these problems. Thinking outside the box here is what is needed.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Yes, there is something to it beyond wikipedia. At the bottom of every wikipedia entry there are outside links and references-- ten outside links and twenty references in this case.

Yes, the Oglala council has banned abortion. One tribal elder announced that she would bring a clinic to the res, and was impeached as a result. You can learn this from the wikipedia article. Which leads me to think that you haven't. Here it is. A quick Google search will give you more. It's so easy to educate yourself.

You may not realize that this is condescending, but it easily can be taken that way. You also may not care, but it doesn't hurt to point it out even if you don't. You may also have just missed the point of the request--which is the polite way, I think, to treat your comment.

I was more or less wondering if anyone had any information beyond Wikipedia (not that Wikipedia isn't great, but given the contentious nature of the other thread, I'm disinclined to think of its coverage as being the end-all-be-all, and unfortunately its links aren't either). I mean to say, "Does anyone know anything beyond the handy-dandy internet?" Book? Personal research? First-hand/second-hand account?

And you wonder why Cloudy gets pissed off?

I don't recall wondering that.

 

[sethp]

You may not realize that this is condescending, but it easily can be taken that way. You also may not care, but it doesn't hurt to point it out even if you don't. You may also have just missed the point of the request--which is the polite way, I think, to treat your comment.

I was more or less wondering if anyone had any information beyond Wikipedia (not that Wikipedia isn't great, but given the contentious nature of the other thread, I'm disinclined to think of its coverage as being the end-all-be-all, and unfortunately its links aren't either). I mean to say, "Does anyone know anything beyond the handy-dandy internet?" Book? Personal research? First-hand/second-hand account?


I don't recall wondering that.

Sorry Joe. Anything that I say is strictly my opinion and whatever I may say or do nothing is aimed at you or what you are saying. No RL experience there.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Sorry Joe. Anything that I say is strictly my opinion and whatever I may say or do nothing is aimed at you or what you are saying. No RL experience there.

Oh, not at all. Don't worry about it.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the concept of a reservation, truth be told. And I don't entirely understand some of the statistical disconnects that go on.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You may not realize that this is condescending, but it easily can be taken that way. You also may not care, but it doesn't hurt to point it out even if you don't. You may also have just missed the point of the request--which is the polite way, I think, to treat your comment.

I was more or less wondering if anyone had any information beyond Wikipedia (not that Wikipedia isn't great, but given the contentious nature of the other thread, I'm disinclined to think of its coverage as being the end-all-be-all, and unfortunately its links aren't either). I mean to say, "Does anyone know anything beyond the handy-dandy internet?" Book? Personal research? First-hand/second-hand account?

Yes, there is information beyond wikipedia, and much of it is linked from wikipedia. If you think my answer was condescending, that's because it was meant to be-- you are asking other people to educate you when you should be doing it yourself.

If your question was about first or second-hand accounts, or offline references, you surely made no mention of those things. If that was the point, you didn't even come close.

You'll get your best accounts from Cloudy, unfortunately...

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

I grew up in South dakota. And yes the reservations there are beyond poor. Some of them dont even have schools and the kids go to a Catholic Boarding School in Chamberlain SD, situated on the Missouri River. Child Abuse is rampant on the reservation. Basically the govt pushed the natives onto the worst land in the state, not particularly good farmland or grazing land. There is pretty much generations of a people that are struggling to survive with no resources.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Yes, there is information beyond wikipedia, and much of it is linked from wikipedia. If you think my answer was condescending, that's because it was meant to be-- you are asking other people to educate you when you should be doing it yourself.

I didn't realize this was a place that had a problem with people asking for information, maybe even refined information. Does everyone feel that way? If so, then I don't suppose I'm going to consider myself ashamed for asking for help--not all of us know everything, I certainly don't, and I figured there were some informed folks around here (or at least, it seems that way often enough).

I'm sorry you feel the need to be condescending to people, then. I rather wish you wouldn't. You, obviously, don't have to care about that either--but there we are.

If your question was about first or second-hand accounts, or offline references, you surely made no mention of those things. If that was the point, you didn't even come close.

That was the point, yes. "Beyond Wikipedia". I'll try and be clearer about what that means, if its likely to help avoid the attitude, in the future.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I grew up in South dakota. And yes the reservations there are beyond poor. Some of them dont even have schools and the kids go to a Catholic Boarding School in Chamberlain SD, situated on the Missouri River. Child Abuse is rampant on the reservation. Basically the govt pushed the natives onto the worst land in the state, not particularly good farmland or grazing land. There is pretty much generations of a people that are struggling to survive with no resources.

Why do they stay?

 

[sethp]

Why do they stay?

That's a good question.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Why do they stay?

Where would they go?

 

[English Lady]

Why do they stay?

How can they leave? No money, bad health, other relatives depending on you to till the land so they can try to survive...how do you leave that? Where can you go?

 

[sethp]

Where would they go?

anywhere. There isn't too many places that would be worse. If your drinking water is contaminated, if your house is falling apart, if you don't have a job, and there is no school, If you don't have any food or medical care,...what do you have?

 

[sethp]

anywhere. There isn't too many places that would be worse. If your drinking water is contaminated, if your house is falling apart, if you don't have a job, and there is no school, If you don't have any food or medical care,...what do you have?

should have added. Even if you take a bus or walk to an inner city. The crime rate, poverty rate, unemployment rate and schools and everything will be better then what you are living in now.

I think there must be a way to solve some of the fundamental problems there though.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

anywhere. There isn't too many places that would be worse. If your drinking water is contaminated, if your house is falling apart, if you don't have a job, and there is no school, If you don't have any food or medical care,...what do you have?

If you don't have the means to move, you stay.
If you don't have the hope and your spirit has been crushed, you stay.
If you've been lied to by the government, you stay.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

sethp, please be careful about what you say--I'm not picking a fight here, I specifically moved to another thread to not have what seems to be coming in this conversation.

I mean "why do they stay?" as a function of "surely, this didn't just happen overnight, or if it did then what happened?" Generationally, has there been a reason to stay (beyond sentiment)?

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

There is no where to go. They make no money pretty much. To move somewhere else you need money to live on, skills to find a job. In SD there are huge areas of absolutely nothing between the towns. Nothing but grass. It would be hard to get out, you would have to leave family behind, everything familiar. Change is hard. I would guess that many have just given up hope. Little hard to get motivated if you dont have that.

SD small towns have no homeless shelters or things like soup kitchens to help them get on their feet. I don't know if there are programs out there to help them these days. It is not like the large cities. Plus even though things are so bad they are worried about losing the rest of their culture, it is one of the few things that they can hang on to. It is a completely different mind set.

Granted there are natives that still have their culture. My mother learned to make star quilts from several native gals she worked with. People are trying.

 

[cloudy]

sethp, please be careful about what you say--I'm not picking a fight here, I specifically moved to another thread to not have what seems to be coming in this conversation.

I mean "why do they stay?" as a function of "surely, this didn't just happen overnight, or if it did then what happened?" Generationally, has there been a reason to stay (beyond sentiment)?

They stay because their culture is all that they have left, the government has taken everything else.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

sethp, please be careful about what you say--I'm not picking a fight here, I specifically moved to another thread to not have what seems to be coming in this conversation.

I mean "why do they stay?" as a function of "surely, this didn't just happen overnight, or if it did then what happened?" Generationally, has there been a reason to stay (beyond sentiment)?

This might help Joe.

http://knowledge.wpcarey.asu.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1565