What is love?

[jasonlf]

What does the word love mean to you?

I've been doing some reflection lately on what that word means to me, expecially in the context of recent things, and I have fallen back to my religion's definition of it:


(First Corinthians, 13:4-7, NLT)
Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.


That's what love means to me. What does it mean to you?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm going to go with Ambrose Bierce's definition: A temporary insanity cureable either by marriage or by removal of the influences under which he incurred the disorder. It is sometimes fatal, but more frequently to the physician than the patient.

He also defined "Incompatibility" as in matrimony, a similarity of tastes; particularly that for domination ; which is all kinds of relevant.

 

[TaintedB]

I like the definition you quoted, Jason, because it applies to all kinds of love, not just romantic relationships. Rosco's curmuggeonly and too-often-true quote is an apt description of many relationships of the second sort, though, the "in love" rather than the "love" relationships. What is cool about about a few marriages or romantic couplings is that sometimes the "in love" bullshit transforms itself into the much more satisfying (in the long run) "love" that Corinthians describes.

The thing about that quote of yours that you have to watch out for, however, is that it describes an ideal, something really good to aim for, but also something that nobody human ever achieves perfectly. People often kick themselves in the balls if they can't measure up to inhuman perfection. The trick to living happily, I think, is to strive as hard as you can to meet the ideals you approve of (and never do the stupid defeatist thing of brushing them aside without even trying because they are clearly impossible) but then, when you don't reach the ideals, to be satisfied with how close you do get. Also, during the times you fuck up miserably, just bring the ideal back into mind, pick yourself up, and start moving toward it again, without a lot of self-flagellation (unless, of course, your difficulty was with pride and you need a good self-whipping to get your feet back on solid ground). So you fucked up? Join the rest of the human race, lol. We all do it.

 

[Killishandra]

I am going to second the insanity definition.

Although I have my doubts about it being curable. =\

 

[graceanne]

I have always loved Corinthians. Love is the selfless giving of yourself. It's more than that fun gushy feeling you get early on in a relationship. It's putting another person's happiness before your own.

 

[Netzach]

I like the Corinthians, but I prefer the KJ version, better poetry.

Recently I was listening to NPR and they were reviewing a biography of Mary Wollstonecraft. It was fascinating. She lived right round the corner from her husband, and there was this wonderful quote about how she longed for him always in her life, but not always at her elbow.

I think love is complementing one another and completing one another. Being a team in the world and being better for the time you spend together. Improving each other and the world around you as well.

 

[graceanne]

I like the Corinthians, but I prefer the KJ version, better poetry.

Recently I was listening to NPR and they were reviewing a biography of Mary Wollstonecraft. It was fascinating. She lived right round the corner from her husband, and there was this wonderful quote about how she longed for him always in her life, but not always at her elbow.

I think love is complementing one another and completing one another. Being a team in the world and being better for the time you spend together. Improving each other and the world around you as well.

That's a great quote. And I understand. Just cause you love someone doesn't always mean you like them. Frankly, when K isn't working we are normally ready to kill eachother. Their is such thing as too much time together. lol

 

[Metrodance]

I Posted these definitions on the GBLT Board sometime ago.

1. A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

2. A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.

3.
3.1 Sexual passion.
3.2 Sexual intercourse.
3. 3 A love affair.

4. An intense emotional attachment: as for a pet or treasured object.

5. A person who is the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.

6. An expression of one's affection: Send him my love.

7.
7.1 A strong predilection or enthusiasm: a love of language.
7.2 The object of such an enthusiasm: The outdoors is her greatest love.

8. Love Mythology. Eros or Cupid.

9. often Love Christianity. Charity.

10. Sports. A zero score in tennis.

 

[jasonlf]

I have always loved Corinthians. Love is the selfless giving of yourself. It's more than that fun gushy feeling you get early on in a relationship. It's putting another person's happiness before your own.

Yeah.

To put this in a kind of context, I've been fussing about myself, with my ex. I know I love her, and she claims to love me, yet I know she's not a good person for me to be with. So, conflicting thoughts.

I woke up Saturday morning, and God had planted that verse in my mind. It played over and over and over again... until it hit me.

Peace doesn't love me in the tangible way, she loves me in a "gushy feeling" way. And honestly, I think God has better for me than that.

@Tainted: Of course it's an ideal, it's meant to describe a Godly-love, but at least it gives you a better framework to see things in, to see what to strive for. That's all you can ask.

 

[TaintedB]

Yeah.

@Tainted: Of course it's an ideal, it's meant to describe a Godly-love, but at least it gives you a better framework to see things in, to see what to strive for. That's all you can ask.

LOL, I love the @tainted, although for some strange reason whenever I read it, it always makes me feel like I am at work.

By gushy vs. tangible do you mean gushy like romantic love and tangible like the love you might have for a beloved grandparent?

 

[jasonlf]

LOL, I love the @tainted, although for some strange reason whenever I read it, it always makes me feel like I am at work.

By gushy vs. tangible do you mean gushy like romantic love and tangible like the love you might have for a beloved grandparent?

By gushy, I guess... I mean hollow, undemonstrated love. Like the "I love you" and the fact she always misses me when I'm around... but her actions don't say "I love you", only her words. It makes it hollow.

 

[onceburned]

Recently I was listening to NPR and they were reviewing a biography of Mary Wollstonecraft. It was fascinating. She lived right round the corner from her husband, and there was this wonderful quote about how she longed for him always in her life, but not always at her elbow.

Yes, I heard that too - what a fascinating woman.

I think many couples find they can relate to that, once they retire and are spending more time at home (and with each other). Too much of a good thing, perhaps?

 

[grace9]

Hi Jasonlf

I too love the Corinthians passage but there is one from The Prophet below that fits with it like a glove for me. Each deepens the meaning of the other for me as I strive, even at this moment, to embody them in my relationship with my J.
It's a bit long but I'm verbose and no single phrase ever defined love's complete meaning for me. This and Corinthians have come the closest and as I mentioned complement each other well to me.
Best,
Gracie~

LOVE

Then said Almitra, "Speak to us of Love."
And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said: When love beckons to you, follow him, Though his ways are hard and steep. And when his wings enfold you yield to him, Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him, Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning. Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun, So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself. He threshes you to make you naked. He sifts you to free you from your husks. He grinds you to whiteness. He kneads you until you are pliant; And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself. Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "I am in the heart of God." And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself. But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires: To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night. To know the pain of too much tenderness. To be wounded by your own understanding of love; And to bleed willingly and joyfully. To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving; To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy; To return home at eventide with gratitude; And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

 

[canadiancutie]

Love is just an excuse to screw without guilt and an excuse for doing bad things.

 

[jasonlf]

Love is just an excuse to screw without guilt and an excuse for doing bad things.

Aren't we the bitter woman?

 

[canadiancutie]

Aren't we the bitter woman?

Aren't we the lonely man?

 

[jasonlf]

Aren't we the lonely man?

Ouch. Burn.

 

[timberwolf05]

love?

ok. no one pulled my string or opened my cage, but!
since i am not a believer of any gods,...being an atheist,
the bible stuff makes me quite ill. i however will offer my more animalistic viewpoint, being the barbarian heathen sonofa--- that i am.....

my belief of real love is total unconditional. which "I" have YET to find.

people are always quick to spout out church stuff when it is convenient, but when life bogs you down so far they turn tail and run.
it says,,,,,,for better or for worse...richer or poorer in sickness and health.

right?

ehhhhhhhhh wrong answer! the envelope please.
the answer is; so far...i personally have never found one person that did not have an ulterior motive.
when you find yourself suddenly broke and going under, they all take off like rats off a sinking ship.
when you are ill, they turn their back and ignore you, because "they have needs".

sorry. "I" am not buying it! if there is ever..............1 person i ever find that truely believes in total unconditional send her my way will you?

now this is JUST my ill fortune so far. i am not pointing fingers so if you have a guilt complex do not respond here.
but this is just how i see the world as an animalistic viewpoint -- when i mate it is supposed to be for life, not until you find one richer, prettier or stronger. i do despise two faced people.

thank you from an atheist.

the wolf

 

[jasonlf]

ok. no one pulled my string or opened my cage, but!
since i am not a believer of any gods,...being an atheist,
the bible stuff makes me quite ill. i however will offer my more animalistic viewpoint, being the barbarian heathen sonofa--- that i am.....

my belief of real love is total unconditional. which "I" have YET to find.

people are always quick to spout out church stuff when it is convenient, but when life bogs you down so far they turn tail and run.
it says,,,,,,for better or for worse...richer or poorer in sickness and health.

right?

ehhhhhhhhh wrong answer! the envelope please.
the answer is; so far...i personally have never found one person that did not have an ulterior motive.
when you find yourself suddenly broke and going under, they all take off like rats off a sinking ship.
when you are ill, they turn their back and ignore you, because "they have needs".

sorry. "I" am not buying it! if there is ever..............1 person i ever find that truely believes in total unconditional send her my way will you?

now this is JUST my ill fortune so far. i am not pointing fingers so if you have a guilt complex do not respond here.
but this is just how i see the world as an animalistic viewpoint -- when i mate it is supposed to be for life, not until you find one richer, prettier or stronger. i do despise two faced people.

thank you from an atheist.

the wolf

No human can have 100% unconditional love.

Sometimes it'd be nice to find someone who tried to be a little less self-centered though.

 

[grace9]

The question of love

This is an interesting thread because people do have diverse opinions of "love" and we can all only speak from personal experience to verify our conclusions. That applies not only to people with more cynical viewpoints but to those with an optimistic/idealistic view of love as well.

Love is perfect....it is us as human beings (at times driven by the selfishness of ego) that are not. My prior post does speak of love in an optimistic sense because that is what I have known. Have I had my heart broken? Yes. Have I unintentionally broken hearts myself? Yes. Have I been skittish and afraid of loving another? Yes. Have I been willing to do it again and again? Yes. Am I sorry for any of the above? No. ALL the experiences deepen my understanding of what love has meant to me.

I can harden and be bitter as much as anyone can. But it is those experiences of that "unconditional" love that timberwolf05 spoke of that remind me not to let sorrow negate the joy. I have had unconditional love (both giving and receiving it). It has been worth it to me to have been able to open my heart and have another's open to me in such a way that it takes my breath to know that something like that is even possible.

Love just isn't what comes TO you it is what extends FROM you. IMHO love itself is a very good thing. It is not "love" that bears the blame of things gone wrong but what has been done in its name that should wear that mantle.

 

[grace9]

Love's definition is a toughie....maybe that's what we're all on this planet to figure out

 

[onceburned]

Sometimes it'd be nice to find someone who tried to be a little less self-centered though.

This is kind of a wild thought, but I am currently reading the Rule of St. Benedict (1500 year old booklet which organizes life in monasteries - and still used today). It is a little surprising just how many elements of submission are in it: Humility, selflessness, eagerness to obey, etc.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a list of people who have chosen to leave religious orders? I bet ex-nuns and ex-monks would make really good submissives.

 

[subkitten]

This is kind of a wild thought, but I am currently reading the Rule of St. Benedict (1500 year old booklet which organizes life in monasteries - and still used today). It is a little surprising just how many elements of submission are in it: Humility, selflessness, eagerness to obey, etc.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a list of people who have chosen to leave religious orders? I bet ex-nuns and ex-monks would make really good submissives.

Aren't most "one Lord and Master + obedient flock" religions just a study in D/s power dynamics??

After all it's no secret that a lot of subs/slaves go in search of the spirtual to find what it is they are lacking....a father figure, a Master, a Dominant...(only using male terms here for brevity)? I couldn't tell you the number of times I tried to find god before I found Him...

 

[grace9]

Aren't most "one Lord and Master + obedient flock" religions just a study in D/s power dynamics??

After all it's no secret that a lot of subs/slaves go in search of the spirtual to find what it is they are lacking....a father figure, a Master, a Dominant...(only using male terms here for brevity)? I couldn't tell you the number of times I tried to find god before I found Him...

hmmmm....might it be possible in doing so that you may have unknowingly found both?

 

[sunfox]

ok. no one pulled my string or opened my cage, but!
since i am not a believer of any gods,...being an atheist,
the bible stuff makes me quite ill. i however will offer my more animalistic viewpoint, being the barbarian heathen sonofa--- that i am.....

my belief of real love is total unconditional. which "I" have YET to find.

people are always quick to spout out church stuff when it is convenient, but when life bogs you down so far they turn tail and run.
it says,,,,,,for better or for worse...richer or poorer in sickness and health.

right?

ehhhhhhhhh wrong answer! the envelope please.
the answer is; so far...i personally have never found one person that did not have an ulterior motive.
when you find yourself suddenly broke and going under, they all take off like rats off a sinking ship.
when you are ill, they turn their back and ignore you, because "they have needs".

sorry. "I" am not buying it! if there is ever..............1 person i ever find that truely believes in total unconditional send her my way will you?

now this is JUST my ill fortune so far. i am not pointing fingers so if you have a guilt complex do not respond here.
but this is just how i see the world as an animalistic viewpoint -- when i mate it is supposed to be for life, not until you find one richer, prettier or stronger. i do despise two faced people.

thank you from an atheist.

the wolf

I find it vaguely amusing that someone who claims to be an atheist and that bible stuff makes them ill has mention of Heaven in their sig line.


Anyway.

If you're looking for unconditional love... get a dog.

Humans always have conditions on their love, including you, monsieur loup.

Suck it up. Get used to your limitations, and do the best you can.

That's what love has always meant to me. Doing the best I can for someone I love, and trusting that when I fail, they will forgive me because of that love.