What is conservatism?

[dan_c00000]

Yet u love the socialist msnbc .... a ny libotard, clearly it sucks 2 b u

Right but MSNBC is a TV network and Liberty University is a Christian college so I don't know what you mean there.

By the way it's the holiday season jenn how have your books been selling?

 

[Ishmael]

Fair enough. When you said "rooted in Marx", what part of Marx's work were you referring to?

Social democracy originated in 19th-century Germany from the influence of both the internationalist revolutionary socialism and doctrine of communism advanced by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels; and the reformist socialism of Ferdinand Lassalle.

There are the roots. End of discussion on that topic.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

Are we supposed to be ashamed that these ideas are rooted in Marx?

 

[Ishmael]

Are we supposed to be ashamed that these ideas are rooted in Marx?

Not at all, just so we ALL understand your core philosophy is rooted in Communism.

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]

 

[dan_c00000]

There are the roots. End of discussion on that topic.

Ishmael

You might want to try NOT using Wikipedia as the definitive answer to questions:



Oxford English Dictionary | The definitive record of the English language










































social democracy, n.









Pronunciation: Brit. /ˌsəʊʃl dᵻˈmɒkrəsi/ , U.S. /ˌsoʊʃ(ə)l dəˈmɑkrəsi/

Forms: Also with capital initials.

Etymology: < social adj. + democracy n., probably after social democrat n. Compare social democratic adj.










Originally: = socialism n. 2 (now rare). Subsequently: (the advocacy of) a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means. Now chiefly: (the advocacy of) a system of liberal democracy that retains a commitment to social reform and social justice, often through traditionally socialist policies, as nationalization of industry and services, support for the welfare state, etc.



[1841 Times 10 Apr. 6/4 My creed has been social democracy, or the equality of each man before society.]

1848 Northern Star (Leeds) 14 Oct. 5/3 His precious band of ‘philosophers’..will fail to raise a dyke against the ever-rising waters of Social Democracy.

1876 Socialist (N.Y.) 1 July 3/3 (heading) Social democracy in Boston.

1889 G. B. Shaw Fabian Ess. Socialism 183 What then does a gradual transition to Social Democracy mean specifically? It means the gradual extension of the franchise; and the transfer of rent and interest to the State.

1915 R. S. Bourne in Atlantic Monthly Sept. 388/2 ‘Social democracy’..means a freely coöperating, freely reciprocating society of equals.

1947 Vogue May 104/3 Sweden represents the best way of existence a flourishing social-democracy has yet found.

1981 Times 10 Mar. 1/6 Mr Jenkins said that ‘well before Easter’ the Council for Social Democracy would have been turned into the Social Democrat Party.

2002 Foreign Policy Nov. 19/3 America's new econocentric consensus..represents a return to the values of what any European would recognize as social democracy.


If you notice that first quote is from 1840/1841 OR eight to seven years before the Communist Manifesto was published.

That was a lot of ownage right there.

 

[KingOrfeo]

There are the roots. End of discussion on that topic.

Ishmael

Then you understand -- see post #88 -- that left-liberalism, no less than classical liberalism/libertarianism, is part of a political and intellectual tradition completely independent of Marx.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Not at all, just so we ALL understand your core philosophy is rooted in Communism.

Ishmael

Then you understand -- see post #88 -- that left-liberalism, no less than classical liberalism/libertarianism, is part of a political and intellectual tradition completely independent of Marx.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

I can't remember a single Communist who was ashamed to be rooted in Marx. Only those who believed in Marxist ideas trying to run for office in the United States of America. Damned few in the Democrat Party have the pelotas to admit their ideas are rooted in Marx.

Then you understand -- see post #88 -- that left-liberalism, no less than classical liberalism/libertarianism, is part of a political and intellectual tradition completely independent of Marx.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah. Libs in this country do suffer from a complete lack of testicular fortitude. It's the only reason shit gets so sideways in this country.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Yeah. Libs in this country do suffer from a complete lack of testicular fortitude. It's the only reason shit gets so sideways in this country.

Then you understand -- see post #88 -- that left-liberalism, no less than classical liberalism/libertarianism, is part of a political and intellectual tradition completely independent of Marx.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I wouldn't say completely independent. Modern day liberalism and soc dem in particular is very based on the premise of societal structures, a very Marx-y idea. They agree with Marx that strucures exist and that they matter. Maybe to a fault, just like libertarians and (some) conservative tend to pretend they don't exist at all. They disagree with Marx what to do about them though. Their end goal is pretty similar to that of a libertatian - individual empowerment and general prosperity - but since a Soc Dem and a Libertarian don't see reality the same way, they can't agree what the obstacles are and therefore how to overcome them. One see Government as a tool against structures. The other don't see the structures and wonder what the hell all this Government is supposed to be good for.

Left-liberalism and social democracy do tend to converge, at least in their policy prescriptions, but they started from different points of origin, different traditions and value-sets.

 

[unregistered]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I can't remember a single Communist who was ashamed to be rooted in Marx. Only those who believed in Marxist ideas trying to run for office in the United States of America. Damned few in the Democrat Party have the pelotas to admit their ideas are rooted in Marx.

You know, our Libs don't have enough brains to see whats obvious.

On what planet do communist and socialist elites have the same income as the peasants? No where. Those elites live like the Kennedys and Clintons and the rest. There are no poor or middle income Dems in Congress. Yet our LIB crew at LIT cant wait to starve and stand in lines.

 

[unregistered]

 

[BotanyBoy]

Bullshit. Name a left liberal American politician with no roots to Marxism.

Can't read for shit can you?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The alleged classless society never existed in the Soviet Union. One of the great books was The Russians, Hedrick Smith. I recommend it to anyone who wants an eye witness account of Soviet society from an American perspective.


http://www.amazon.com/The-Russians-Hedrick-Smith/dp/0345317467

Castro drives a Benz.

 

[Ishmael]

You might want to try NOT using Wikipedia as the definitive answer to questions:



Oxford English Dictionary | The definitive record of the English language










































social democracy, n.









Pronunciation: Brit. /ˌsəʊʃl dᵻˈmɒkrəsi/ , U.S. /ˌsoʊʃ(ə)l dəˈmɑkrəsi/

Forms: Also with capital initials.

Etymology: < social adj. + democracy n., probably after social democrat n. Compare social democratic adj.



Originally: = socialism n. 2 (now rare). Subsequently: (the advocacy of) a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means. Now chiefly: (the advocacy of) a system of liberal democracy that retains a commitment to social reform and social justice, often through traditionally socialist policies, as nationalization of industry and services, support for the welfare state, etc.



[1841 Times 10 Apr. 6/4 My creed has been social democracy, or the equality of each man before society.]

1848 Northern Star (Leeds) 14 Oct. 5/3 His precious band of ‘philosophers’..will fail to raise a dyke against the ever-rising waters of Social Democracy.

1876 Socialist (N.Y.) 1 July 3/3 (heading) Social democracy in Boston.

1889 G. B. Shaw Fabian Ess. Socialism 183 What then does a gradual transition to Social Democracy mean specifically? It means the gradual extension of the franchise; and the transfer of rent and interest to the State.

1915 R. S. Bourne in Atlantic Monthly Sept. 388/2 ‘Social democracy’..means a freely coöperating, freely reciprocating society of equals.

1947 Vogue May 104/3 Sweden represents the best way of existence a flourishing social-democracy has yet found.

1981 Times 10 Mar. 1/6 Mr Jenkins said that ‘well before Easter’ the Council for Social Democracy would have been turned into the Social Democrat Party.

2002 Foreign Policy Nov. 19/3 America's new econocentric consensus..represents a return to the values of what any European would recognize as social democracy.


If you notice that first quote is from 1840/1841 OR eight to seven years before the Communist Manifesto was published.

That was a lot of ownage right there.

So someone put the two words together with a nebulous meaning 8 years before the Communist Manifesto was written. Where is the developed philosophy prior to Marx?

Shit for brains.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

Bullshit. Name a left liberal American politician with no roots to Marxism.

While I think that's a bit of a stretch again who the fuck cares? If you think you're going to kill the idea because some guy you don't like was one of the first people to vocalize it so be it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Bullshit. Name a left liberal American politician with no roots to Marxism.

Al Smith, FDR, LBJ, Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, all the Kennedys, Carter if he counts as left-liberal, Clinton likewise, Obama likewise.

N.B.: If a pol pushed an idea Marx happened to have thought of first, such as universal public education, that by itself is not "roots to Marxism."

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

All post Marx, so don't try and say they weren't influenced by Marx. We all know the FDR was surrounded by them.

Everyone post-Marx is post-Marx. I might as well say Reagan was therefore a Marxist.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Conservatism is not an ideology. Conservatism is based on Reason, reality, knowledge, human experience, and traditions that have proven to hold the civil society together. It's centered on the individual and his free will.

Liberals believe through ideology, a ridgid set of ideas, how society ought to be organized and will continue to exercise that belief though their endeavors do not work. Marx never had any consideration for the individual, his traditions, his experience, his free will. He had a Utopian master plan to be imposed on everyone.

Obama continues to believe in Obamacare because he has a Utopian ideology that dictates a grand plan that supports organizing the national health care industry,, and society in general, around an ideology of centralized government control, Reason, knowledge, and experience, not ideology, tells conservatives this is tyranny.

To Marx and Obama the individual, his experience, his free will, his reason, his knowledge, all get in the way of their ideology, it all gets in the way of their new society; a society they want to build based on their ideology, not on reason, knowledge, experience, or free will.

Locke wrote an essay in 1690 "an essay concerning human understanding"

Locke taught us the individual has value and significance and that society should be organized around him; that knowledge comes from experience and reason, and those should determine the structure of a free society.

Marx like Obama because of their ideology cared nothing for the individual and his experience, but for the one size fits all collective, based on their reason alone.

When has America been a civil and/ or civilized country?

Back when it was considered okay to keep black people at the back of the bus?

When it waged war on innocent countries and civilians?

Help me understand, because what you consider civil, the rest of the world considers barbaric.

I know you have the flag so far up your ass that you see stars when you sneeze, but what you need to realize is that your country has always been a shit hole, buttercup.

 

[unregistered]