What Is A Premise?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I know what a premise is, but I want to see if anyone has a clear & simple explanation of what a premise is in terms of writing. No dictionary definitions. Limit your explantion to one paragraph.

Me first: It's what the author concludes is the right thing to do.

Like, what's the premise of Romeo & Juliet? Some experts say the premise is "Love perseveres." I think this is nonsense. To my way of thinking, Shakespeare's premise is: Responsible adults need to supervise children. Things go to Hell quickly when kiddies make the decisions.

 

[CharleyH]

I know what a premise is, but I want to see if anyone has a clear & simple explanation of what a premise is in terms of writing. No dictionary definitions. Limit your explantion to one paragraph.

Me first: It's what the author concludes is the right thing to do.

Like, what's the premise of Romeo & Juliet? Some experts say the premise is "Love perseveres." I think this is nonsense. To my way of thinking, Shakespeare's premise is: Responsible adults need to supervise children. Things go to Hell quickly when kiddies make the decisions.

Respectfully, I disagree. Romeo and Juliet has a theme, but not a premise. I think non-fiction is premise bound. I believe fiction is theme bound. Simple enough?

CH

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I stated the premise. The action of R & J is entirely consistent with the premise: When adults drop the ball kids get in trouble. The Prince says the same thing at the end: WE FUCKED UP! WE'RE ALL PUNISHED FOR IT.

 

[Weird Harold]

Respectfully, I disagree. Romeo and Juliet has a theme, but not a premise. I think non-fiction is premise bound. I believe fiction is theme bound. Simple enough?

CH

Not all fiction is "theme bound" -- many genres are firmly premise bound. The Fantasy, Science Fiction and Mystery genres especially require a premise -- "magic works," "FTL spaceflight is possible," or "there is no such thing as the perfect crime."

A premise is: The underlying, assumption or set of assumptions, from which the logic of the story flows.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Harold! I said no dictionary definitions!

 

[CharleyH]

I stated the premise. The action of R & J is entirely consistent with the premise: When adults drop the ball kids get in trouble. The Prince says the same thing at the end: WE FUCKED UP! WE'RE ALL PUNISHED FOR IT.

You have missed the "premise" of Romeo and Juliet, then.

 

[Weird Harold]

Harold! I said no dictionary definitions!

'twas not taken from the dictionary, 'twas my personal "one paragraph or less" statement of what I believe a premise is -- if it happens to match your dictionary's definition, so much the better; it means I actually know what it means.

 

[CharleyH]

A premise is: The underlying, assumption or set of assumptions, from which the logic of the story flows.

Yes, can't argue that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dont be coy, Roy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CHARLEY

I think I'm dead on the money with R & J. All the action in the play involves unsupervised kids.

 

[amicus]

Harold! I said no dictionary definitions!

To hell with what you said, JBJ, your conversion from democrat to republic years ago left some subjective slime hanging to your coat-tails!

...2. Logic
a. One of the propositions in a deductive argument.
b. Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the conclusion is drawn....

Most people, especially the left, never define their 'premises', their basic assumptions and axioms and remain a blurry, undefined, cracker-barrel, concept, such as 'abortion' is good because it protects a woman's right to choose...disregarding the axiom that a human life is sacrificed.

I would suggest that whatever Willie's intended purpose was, the result of hundreds of years of reading and critiques, that it concerns unrequited love can be tragic.

The unspoken premise of most on this forum, which also underpins their writings, is that men are evil, aggression is evil, capitalism is evil, women are equal and should be on top.

I know, SUA, shut up Amicus....

...back to my garden, it appreciates me...

Ami...

 

[CharleyH]

CHARLEY

I think I'm dead on the money with R & J. All the action in the play involves unsupervised kids.

You are assuming a lot from Shakespeare. I always thought of him as the George Lucas of modern times.

 

[lloyd_5]

JBJ

Bullshit! "I start from the premise" simply means, "I start from the presumption". Romeo and Juliet has nothing to do with what you pretend but is simply what Shakespeare said, 'a tale of star-cross'd lovers'.

'Premise' is a pretty simple workhouse word.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS Youre still jealous cause mom liked me better.

CHARLEY

It seems pretty obvious to me. Everyone, from the Prince to Friar Lawrence, drops the ball. The theme are the scenes that illustrate this premise...the brawls, the gate-crashing, the clandestine rendezvous, the duelling, the conspiracies, the suicides, etc. R & J isnt about love. Its a story of negligent people.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lloyd I assume you know squat about about what a premise is.

 

[gauchecritic]

The premise of Romeo and Juliet is: 'shit happens'.

(or possibly amor vincit omnia. often with tragic results)

(or even 'you can use the same song in different musicals as long as someone gets stabbed')

 

[lloyd_5]

Lloyd I assume you know squat about about what a premise is.

On the contrary, as a linguistics expert, I can tell you that premise actually derives from 'pre-' = before and 'mise', from the French verb 'mettre', to put.

A 'premise' is simply a theory or POV put out to be argued over or debated. Nothing at all to do with ~Romeo and Juliet.

Until you grow up and get out of Senior School, can you please stop using words you don't understand.

 

[CharleyH]

AMICUS Youre still jealous cause mom liked me better.

CHARLEY

It seems pretty obvious to me. Everyone, from the Prince to Friar Lawrence, drops the ball. The theme are the scenes that illustrate this premise...the brawls, the gate-crashing, the clandestine rendezvous, the duelling, the conspiracies, the suicides, etc. R & J isnt about love. Its a story of negligent people.

Just getting things started for you JamesB.

 

[colddiesel]

I know what a premise is, but I want to see if anyone has a clear & simple explanation of what a premise is in terms of writing. No dictionary definitions. Limit your explantion to one paragraph.

.

By saying no dictionary definitions you have scuppered yourself . Premise in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) has two separate entries. It is two different words with the same spelling. In the past hundred years or so the meanings have tended to converge giving rise I suspect to your confusion.

Being a contrary soul I'm going to let you look up the difference! After all you were banging on earlier in another thread about ignorant students who don't want to learn so perhaps you might like to learn for yourself?. You will need a decent dictionary to sort out the two meanings

 

[talldarknhandsome]

I know what a premise is, but I want to see if anyone has a clear & simple explanation of what a premise is in terms of writing. No dictionary definitions. Limit your explantion to one paragraph.

Me first: It's what the author concludes is the right thing to do.

Like, what's the premise of Romeo & Juliet? Some experts say the premise is "Love perseveres." I think this is nonsense. To my way of thinking, Shakespeare's premise is: Responsible adults need to supervise children. Things go to Hell quickly when kiddies make the decisions.

I think there are two things here, actually. "Love perseveres" in Romeo & Juliet is actually the moral. This can be what the character learns as a result of the story or what the author is trying to convey as the point of the story. A premise is generally what the story is about. It's very general. For example, the premise of a Romeo & Juliet is a story of two star-crossed lovers who have to deal with their love despite their warring families. A premise is similar to a plot, but remember the key word of general that I mentioned before. Plots describe how a story gets from the beginning to the end. Plots are very specific. Premises are not specific and contain the basic idea of the story. Premises typically don't have anything to do with going from point A (the beginning) to point B (the end) of the story.

That's my take on it though. I didn't really read many other people's replies so hope I didn't just rehash what a lot of people said. Also, different writers may use different terms for the same idea, or may interchange plot and premise, etc. The thing is to just remember the concepts.

 

[DeeZire]

I think the premise is going to depend on POV. As stated in the first post, there could be two different premises to R&J, depending on how you look at it.

Amicus is a good example of that. He is convinced that liberals want to take away our freedom. Ask a liberal what conservatives want to do; they'll say conservatives want to take away our freedom - same premise applied to two totally different philosophies. Obviously, a premise has more to do with perception than reality.

 

[elsol]

I know what a premise is, but I want to see if anyone has a clear & simple explanation of what a premise is in terms of writing. No dictionary definitions. Limit your explantion to one paragraph.

Me first: It's what the author concludes is the right thing to do.

Like, what's the premise of Romeo & Juliet? Some experts say the premise is "Love perseveres." I think this is nonsense. To my way of thinking, Shakespeare's premise is: Responsible adults need to supervise children. Things go to Hell quickly when kiddies make the decisions.

A premise is a claim statement that the author starts with and presumes to be true. The story's theme may exemplify that claim statement, but not necessarily because a reader tends to warp things to their experience and thought process.

In the case of R&J, "Love perseveres" would be a bad premise for Shakes to have started with because he failed to prove it -- not only did he fail to prove his premise but he proved the opposite -- Love does NOT persevere-- it does not persevere against stupidity, petty bullshit, nor teenage melodrama. Unless you believe that R&J go to a better place where they can live happily ever after because there are no divorce lawyers.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ELSOL

Exactly! Lajos Egri says the premise is "love perseveres," but this cant be the premise, for the reasons you stated. The theme is melodrama.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEEZIRE

The reason I created this thread is because no one seems to agree on what a premise is. I reviewed 3-4 books yesterday. All of them claim to know what a premise is, and theyre all different.

Simply said, a premise is the point youre trying to make with your tale.

POV? I'm confident some people find whatever theyre looking for in anything.

 

[gauchecritic]

Simply said, a premise is the point youre trying to make with your tale.

Largely speaking, that's a moral.

A premise is just a common knowledge or a question. A tale will then explore that question or be set against that common knowledge.

eg what happens when love conquers all? The moral: shit happens.