What Illegal Immigration Cost...

[Zeb_Carter]

FYI...

Here's an interesting website for you. It's called immigrationCounters.com The #1 Site for Real-Time Immigration Statistics. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information on this site .. but it sure does get your attention. Here are the stats as of about 6:00 EDT this morning:


[tr][td]Illegal Immigrants in Country[/td][td]

20,426,887​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Money wired to Mexico[/td][td]

$23,575,296,302​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost of Social Services for Illegal Immigrants[/td][td]

$397,469,111,828​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegals Enrolled in Government Schools K-12 [/td][td]

3,749,373​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost of Illegal Immigrants Enrolled in K-12[/td][td]

$14,489,987,299​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegal Immigrants Incarcerated [/td][td]

315,460​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost for Incarcerations of Illegal Immigrants [/td][td]

$1,446,245,595​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegal Immigrant Fugitives [/td][td]

623,761​

[/td][/tr]

 

[Liar]

Wages saved and margins earned by businesses employing cheap illegal immigrant workforce: $quitealot

20 million illegal immigrants buying goods and services in America (probably not much since they're underpaid, but still, they gotta eat): $alittlesomethingtoo

Not that I condone either illegal employment or illegal immigration, but let's be fair. Those numbes might not add up, but they sure would nuance the picture.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Wages saved and margins earned by businesses employing cheap illegal immigrant workforce: $quitealot

20 million illegal immigrants buying goods and services in America (probably not much since they're underpaid, but still, they gotta eat): $alittlesomethingtoo

Not that I condone either illegal employment or illegal immigration, but let's be fair. Those numbes might not add up, but they sure would nuance the picture.

Those goods and services bought are included in the cost of the social services, they are called "food stamps" and "Section 8 Housing" so it's the taxpayers(the US citizens) that are paying for their food housing.

Well there may be a little savings by the companies who hire them.

 

[Liar]

Those goods and services bought are included in the cost of the social services, they are called "food stamps" and "Section 8 Housing" so it's the taxpayers(the US citizens) that are paying for their food housing.

Point taken.

Well, I was assuming the kickback to consumption was the lesser of the two posts by far anyway. The economic effect of access to a class of workers, right-less close to serfdom, can have on an unscrupulous business is not only counted in wage margins, and tricky to put an exact number on. But easy to overlook.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Point taken.

Well, I was assuming the kickback to consumption was the lesser of the two posts by far anyway. The economic effect of access to a class of workers, right-less close to serfdom, can have on an unscrupulous business is not only counted in wage margins, and tricky to put an exact number on. But easy to overlook.

The cost saving to companies is in the account setups they would have to make for legal employees, an expense that can be deducted but only worth(cost) anything if done. If you don't hire anyone you save that cost also. The only real cost they have is the cash payment to illegal employee plus they don't get the payroll deduction.

But I'm sure there is a way they get that transaction in their expenses anyway.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The cost saving to companies is in the account setups they would have to make for legal employees, an expense that can be deducted but only worth(cost) anything if done. If you don't hire anyone you save that cost also. The only real cost they have is the cash payment to illegal employee plus they don't get the payroll deduction.

But I'm sure there is a way they get that transaction in their expenses anyway.

Of course there is. It's been done for years. These "employees" are either "independant contractors" or they are hired through "employment contractors". That makes the payment a valid dedcution and looks just fine on the Income Statement. Still doesn't make it legal because this skirts the Workers Comp Laws, Federal and Local Employment Tax Laws, Service District Taxes and no Federal or State Income Taxes are ever paid by the "employee". And the illegals call this fair?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Of course there is. It's been done for years. These "employees" are either "independant contractors" or they are hired through "employment contractors". That makes the payment a valid dedcution and looks just fine on the Income Statement. Still doesn't make it legal because this skirts the Workers Comp Laws, Federal and Local Employment Tax Laws, Service District Taxes and no Federal or State Income Taxes are ever paid by the "employee". And the illegals call this fair?

Point taken, but then 1099s have to be issued, etc. No?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Point taken, but then 1099s have to be issued, etc. No?

Under the IRS Program Titled "Compliance 2000", yes. The problem is the program was never implemented because Washington DC would be buried under an enormous pile of 1099's.

Under the current section of the IRS Code a 1099 is issued to any "Private Contractor" "...who is paid in excess of $600.00 during the tax year."

In reality what happens is the IRS or even your tax accountant wouldn't know if the rule is being followed. Another common method is for the undocumented alien to have one person paid for the entire crew under numberous false identities and false addressees. Under this situation, even it the payments exceed $600.00 to any or all and a 1099 is issued they simple either come back in the mail or they are thrown away. In either case, no taxes are paid.

Incidentally, the IRS knows about this and, at your request, will "...attempt to locate the taxpayer for you." But that never works since the addresses, SSI# and Names are false.

(Don't ask me how I know this )

 

[Straight-8]

I think it was Chief Joseph of the Perce-Nez who said, when asked what advice he would offer to the government, "Be very careful of your immigration policy."


Considering what the Indians went through, he was clearly a very wise man. But if your statistics are anywhere near correct the US stands as much chance of ridding itself of these 'illegals' as the Indians stood of getting rid of the white settlers. It's time to adapt your policy to accomodate the reality of the situation.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

(Don't ask me how I know this )

Well if you work for the IRS or a tax attorney or an employer of illegals maybe we should.

 

[Liar]

Question: What does legal immigrants cost?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Question: What does legal immigrants cost?

The same as US citizens I would assume as they have to be productive and not dependant on the government, I believe.

Will they send money back home, sure. Will they need help from the government to feed themselves, no, that's part of getting into the country legally, they must have a job waiting for them.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Well if you work for the IRS or a tax attorney or an employer of illegals maybe we should.

Easy, Zeb. I've been an accountant for 15 years in Manufacturing and Construction.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Easy, Zeb. I've been an accountant for 15 years in Manufacturing and Construction.

You know what they say about accounts, don't you?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

You know what they say about accounts, don't you?

Of course... They lose their balance

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Of course... They lose their balance

Well, that's one of them.

 

[Liar]

The same as US citizens I would assume as they have to be productive and not dependant on the government, I believe.

Will they send money back home, sure. Will they need help from the government to feed themselves, no, that's part of getting into the country legally, they must have a job waiting for them.

So, legal immigrants are then a better deal for America than legal citizens, who can be that without a job?

Just checkin'.

 

[cloudy]

So, legal immigrants are then a better deal for America than legal citizens, who can be that without a job?

Just checkin'.

I you, Liar. Just sayin'.

 

[CharleyH]

Wages saved and margins earned by businesses employing cheap illegal immigrant workforce: $quitealot

20 million illegal immigrants buying goods and services in America (probably not much since they're underpaid, but still, they gotta eat): $alittlesomethingtoo

Not that I condone either illegal employment or illegal immigration, but let's be fair. Those numbes might not add up, but they sure would nuance the picture.

Funny sarcasism - so true, though.

I must say that I think it's a concern when illegal immigrants are only those with different coloured skin or accents other than British or Canadian ones. There is something ultimately 'odd' in that.

 

[cloudy]

Funny sarcasism - so true, though.

I must say that I think it's a concern when illegal immigrants are only those with different coloured skin or accents other than British or Canadian ones. There is something ultimately 'odd' in that.

Ain't it, tho.

 

[Pure]

entirely questionable

The site provides no documentation of any of these figures. I could put up a site with a 'counter' about how many silly postings the righwingers make in the US. Probably about 1 per second, total now in excess of 123, 456, 789. Oops. gotta update that.

1)Illegal Immigrants in Country 20,426,887

*Nobody knows this figure. Numbers from 10 to 40 million have been cited. Hence all figures extracted from this figure are dubious.
For instance it's entirely possible that the 3.7 figure for illegals' children in schools is simply a guestimate based on applying some percentage to the 20.4 million--i.e. one guessing that about 18% of the illegals are kids 5-18.

2)money wired to Mexico $23,575,296,302

*This is silly, since it has nothing to do with illegals. Anyone, including US citizens, can wire money to Mexico.

3) Cost of Social Services for Illegal Immigrants $397,469,111,828

*No documentation. Is this based on 'known' illegals, or on the figure above, i.e. a speculation. Further this assumes no illegals are using phoney ID. Also see below.

4)Il legals Enrolled in Government Schools K-12 3,749,373

*This is a number to rejoice at, since they will more likely do well in the US, than if they didn't. In effect, it's an investment.

5)Cost of Illegal Immigrants Enrolled in K-12 $14,489,987,299

*No documentation. But see below.

6) Illegal Immigrants Incarcerated 315,460

*No documentation. Is this Federal Prisons, or all jails? How do the jails know who is illegal?

7)Cost for Incarcerations of Illegal Immigrants $1,446,245,595

*Speculative. But see below.

8) Illegal Immigrant Fugitives 623,761

No documentation. Fugitive from whom?

----
In relation to the alleged "costs", several points need to be made.
First, who is footing these bills. Increasingly it's middle and working class people, the upper end folks and corporations having had their burdens lessened while their incomes accelerate faster than inflation.

Equally important.
Lets take the 1.4 billion alleged for incarcerations. You must build prisons. You must hire guards. You must buy food for the inmates.


Building prisons benefits construction companies like Halliburton. It also creates jobs with them. The need for more guards is helpful to those looking for work. The hired guards spend their money in various places, like Walmart, and pay taxes on it. The food for the inmates goes probably to the major food companies, who make a profit. So while some 'working class' Janes are *paying* this "cost", a number of other working class Johns and Janes, not to say the wealthy stockholders in the the companies, are benefitting.

One may make similar arguments for several of the costs, above. The 14 billion alleged to be spent educating these people K 12 is quite a bit going to teachers, as well as principals and janitors.

---
Oddly enough, this hysteria over illegals may divide Republicans. When was the last time you heard George Bush *give* or *bemoan* such figures as these? Why if govs., including the fed are "losing" (i.e., spending) billions is nothing said? Well, the right wing always hate spending except when it's in their backyard. You can bet Texas is getting a bundle of this "cost".
===

One key "cost" (benefit) is not given. Assume 2/3 of the illegals are adults. Assume most are working. That's about 10 million, lets say.
How many are at subminimum wages. Let's say 5 million, being conservative. So let's say that the 5 million, on average get $3 dollars per hour, instead of $7. Then each of these saves his or her employer about $7,000 per year. That's

$35 billion saved by employers, some substantial portions going into profits. In return the big employers have to kick in a few tens of thousands to each of the Republicans or Dems in Congress. And people wonder why these legislators *can't* seem to pass any legislation to fix the alleged problem.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

What's pointed out above isn't the only cost of illegals in this country. A lot of those jobs that they do, like fast food places, convenience stores, general laborors, etc., used to be done by the teeny-boppers of America, once upon a time. Now the teeny-boppers have entirely too much opportunity to sit around and mooch off of mom and dad, play video games and hang out in any number of unproductive ways.

A lot of those jobs were the original learning experiences for teens and many young adults. From there they would their way up into any number of vocations. Now when I deal with a white person in any kind of customer service position, the majority of the time he or she sucks at that position because they didn't take the job at McDonalds or Grand Auto or whatever when they were younger. Their people skills lack considerably compared to the generations before them.

Now the illegals eat up a pretty good percentage of these "beginner-type" jobs, but they don't really excel into much beyond that. They just get their paychecks, send some of the money home, go to work, get their paychecks, send some of the money home, etc., etc., etc.

I honestly have no problem with all the immigrants. I don't even have that much of a problem with them competing for the jobs, but at least come in legally and do it.

 

[neonlyte]

FYI...

Here's an interesting website for you. It's called immigrationCounters.com The #1 Site for Real-Time Immigration Statistics. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information on this site .. but it sure does get your attention. Here are the stats as of about 6:00 EDT this morning:


[tr][td]Illegal Immigrants in Country[/td][td]

20,426,887​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Money wired to Mexico[/td][td]

$23,575,296,302​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost of Social Services for Illegal Immigrants[/td][td]

$397,469,111,828​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegals Enrolled in Government Schools K-12 [/td][td]

3,749,373​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost of Illegal Immigrants Enrolled in K-12[/td][td]

$14,489,987,299​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegal Immigrants Incarcerated [/td][td]

315,460​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cost for Incarcerations of Illegal Immigrants [/td][td]

$1,446,245,595​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Illegal Immigrant Fugitives [/td][td]

623,761​

[/td][/tr]

Goody - we're doing this again:
400,000,000,000 divided by 20,000,000 (rounding) = 20,000 per head.
Family of 4 = 80,000$ per year in social services

Where can I sign up?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The site provides no documentation of any of these figures. I could put up a site with a 'counter' about how many silly postings the righwingers make in the US. Probably about 1 per second, total now in excess of 123, 456, 789. Oops. gotta update that.

Here try this link, it provides that which you seek.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Goody - we're doing this again:
400,000,000,000 divided by 20,000,000 (rounding) = 20,000 per head.
Family of 4 = 80,000$ per year in social services

Where can I sign up?

That would be the cost to provide services, not what they actually get.