Oklahoma moves to solve "illegal immigrant" problem.

Pure

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Assessment of how the measures are working. Texas may follow suit.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...tories/021408dnteximmigcrackdown.39b8412.html

Oklahoma's crackdown on illegal immigration draws Texas lawmakers' interest

Crackdown on illegal immigration draws criticism, Texas interest
11:31 PM CST on

Wednesday, February 13, 2008
By ROBERT T. GARRETT / The Dallas Morning News
rtgarrett@dallasnews.com

OKLAHOMA CITY – Welcome to the nation's laboratory for a crackdown on illegal immigration. Last year, Oklahoma's Legislature passed, by huge margins, the nation's toughest law on illegal immigrants, making it a felony to harbor, transport, shelter or conceal undocumented immigrants.

This summer, the same law also will allow U.S. citizens to sue employers if they think they were fired in favor of illegal workers. Employers in the state say they already see the results: "A total lack of workers," said Doug Forrest, a Tulsa site-preparation contractor and golf course builder. "This is potentially sending our state into a recession."

Proponents of the law don't see such economic harm.
Meanwhile, some Texas lawmakers are already promising bills that mirror Oklahoma's House Bill 1804.

State Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, said the Oklahoma measure has proved that even as Congress deadlocks on immigration, a state can protect itself against what he calls threats to public health and safety posed by a porous border.

"You don't have to round up 20 million illegal aliens," Mr. Berman said. "Stop the two free benefits you're giving them – free health care and a free education – and they'll go back across the Rio Grande."

Mr. Berman has introduced similar anti-illegal-immigration measures in the past but has been unsuccessful.
In December, Oklahoma Treasurer Scott Meacham said "some short-run pain" to that state's economy might occur, if reports of temporary labor shortages in construction, agriculture and oilfield services industries proved severe and long-lasting.

On Wednesday, Meacham deputy Tim Allen said there's been no clear trend to sales tax collections. In October, they dipped below expectations, then hit an estimate on the nose in November, rose in December and flopped again last month. Mr. Allen said that while growth of income taxes has slowed, that could be in line with the national economy.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and several Oklahoma business groups recently sued to overturn the law, saying it improperly steps on federal government turf.

Only one group has tried to track the law's effects on population. The Greater Tulsa Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, after checking with schools, churches, and bus lines with service to Mexico, estimated that between 15,000 and 25,000 illegal immigrants have left Tulsa County since the law was passed.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, there were between 50,000 and 75,000 illegal immigrants in Oklahoma nearly two years ago, with 20 times more – as many as 1.6 million – in Texas.
Jean Towell, leader of a Dallas group fighting illegal immigration, said she's spoken with five North Texas House Republicans who "are planning, as they said to me, to two-step with Oklahoma."

Two of them who could be reached Wednesday, Reps. Jim Jackson of Carrollton and Linda Harper-Brown of Irving, confirmed that they will be joint sponsors with Mr. Berman. A third, Rep. Jodie Laubenberg, R-Parker, said she hasn't seen particulars and won't commit yet, though she has "positive" feelings about the proposal.
However, Bill Hammond, president of the Texas Association of Business, said it would be "unfair to punish employers in Texas for the failure of Congress to act" on immigration.

"We would, of course, oppose any effort on the part of the Legislature to make immigration a state issue," said Mr. Hammond, whose group helped the GOP capture control of the Texas House in 2002. "It's a grave mistake for them to do so."

Rep. Rafael Anchía, D-Dallas, who joined forces with Mr. Hammond and others last year to quash bills discouraging illegal immigration, said this year's presidential race should discourage the Texas Legislature from following Oklahoma's lead next year. He said GOP voters rejected their party's hard-liners on immigration, U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., and former Massachussetts Gov. Mitt Romney. Also, 36 percent of Texas' population is Hispanic, compared with only 7 percent in Oklahoma.

Groups of Hispanics and civil libertarians also have gone to court trying to nullify the Oklahoma law, so far unsuccessfully. The state's Latino leaders say the law has spread fear and led to the death of at least one infant because his parents were afraid they would be deported if they took him to a clinic.

The law strongly nudges local and state police to help enforce federal immigration laws and requires state and local governments to determine whether someone is in the country legally before dispensing public assistance. Some exceptions are made, such as for emergency medical care. A final portion of the law goes into effect July 1, requiring private companies to verify the employment eligibility of all new hires.

"The fear, the terror, is pushing people further underground," said Patricia Fenell, who runs the Latino Community Development Agency, a Hispanic social services center on Oklahoma City's south side.

Alma Montez, who illegally migrated from Mexico a decade ago with her husband, is wary. She said her husband, who lost his $19-an-hour job as a welder about the time the law took effect, has had to take a lower-paying job. He fears that she and their six children will be caught and deported while he's at work, Ms. Montez said.

"My son told me, 'Mommy, what happens if I stay in this school and the immigration take my Papi and you? What am I to do?' " she said. "I say, 'I don't know.' "

State Rep. Randy Terrill, a Republican from the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore, wrote the law. He conceded last week that family breakups will be wrenching, but said bad things also happen to relatives of other people who break laws, such as burglars.
"Somebody's decision to commit a crime ... frequently has an adverse impact on one's family," said Mr. Terrill, a lawyer and part-time government professor at Hillsdale Free Will Baptist College. "We don't use that as an excuse not to enforce the law."

But state Sen. Harry Coates calls Mr. Terrill "a mad scientist, and Oklahoma is his laboratory."

Mr. Coates of Seminole, an hour east of Oklahoma City, was the Legislature's sole Republican to vote against the bill. He said it is mean-spirited, hurts business, and inconveniences legal residents, especially elderly drivers who forget to renew their license and then must produce a birth certificate.

Mr. Terrill said recent state administrative changes should eliminate delays in renewing licenses.

Several Christian denominations have said they'll continue to urge parishioners to aid strangers, even though the law threatens those who transport or shelter "aliens" with at least one year in prison and/or at least a $1,000 fine.

In November, messengers to the annual meeting of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma passed a resolution saying the law "will not change their ministry to any people," according to the Southern Baptist group's Web site.

Mr. Terrill said he doubts courts will convict anyone acting on altruistic motives.
He cites polls showing that as many as three out of four Oklahomans support the law. He predicted it will survive attempts to repeal it during the current session of the Oklahoma Legislature, which ends in May.

Mr. Coates conceded that passing a full or even partial repeal this session "is going to be an uphill fight."
One reason is people like Dan Howard, a Tulsa aircraft dealer.
"People up here got scared to death because ... crime went through the ceiling," said Mr. Howard, who founded an anti-illegal-immigration Web site. "We just want rule of law."

Oklahoma gets tough on illegal immigration
Last year, the Oklahoma Legislature passed a law that:

•Restricts illegal immigrants' access to driver's licenses and ID cards.

•Cuts off several forms of public assistance for illegal immigrants. Emergency medical care, disaster aid and certain immunizations are exempted.

•Makes it harder for illegal immigrants to pay in-state college tuition.
•Encourages state and local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law.

•Makes it a felony to harbor, transport, conceal or shelter illegal immigrants.
•Requires state and local governments to use a federal database that allows them to check potential employees' work eligibility.

•Starting this summer, private employers and government contractors will have to verify employment eligibility of all new hires. Employers who don't could be sued.
This year, Oklahoma lawmakers are considering bills that would:
•Designate English as the state's official language.

•Let law enforcement seize the property of those who transport, hire or rent to illegal immigrants.
•Make public schools report how many illegal-immigrant children are enrolled.

•Repeal last year's law.
•Repeal all of last year's law, except for its ban on most public benefits.

SOURCE: Dallas Morning News research

THE FIGURES

Oklahoma's get-tough law on illegal immigrants.

1804
The omnibus anti-illegal- immigration law is called this because it was a House bill with that number in last year's session of the Oklahoma Legislature

88-9
Margin by which the bill passed in the initial vote by the GOP-controlled Oklahoma House

41-6
Vote to pass the law in the state Senate, which is split evenly, 24-24, between Republicans and Democrats

0
Number of news organizations' cameras present last May when Democratic Gov. Brad Henry signed it into law

0
Number of mentions of the law in Mr. Henry's State of the State address last week

15,000-25,000
The Greater Tulsa Hispanic Chamber of Commerce's estimate of how many illegal immigrants have left the Tulsa area, where enforcement has been most strict, since the law took effect Nov. 1.
 
What a pity that the leaders of the Wampanoag tribe which met the Pilgrims' boat at Plymouth, Massachusetts, never enforced such a civilized immigration policy.
 
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Here's the quagmire as I see it. We have somewhere between twelve and twenty millions illegal hispanics in the U.S. The Border Patrol estimates 150,000 to 200,000 new illegals every month. Fine. That said look at the national political scene.

According the GW the economy is strong, even though well paying jobs are rapidly being "out sourced" to every where else, the U.S. created 200,000 new jobs last year. Unfortunately, Mickey D's, BergerKing, etc. aren't building right now. That means that one month of illegal entries took all the jobs that were created during the entire year, while the upper middle class (who, by the way, carry most of the tax burden that pays for running the country) get fucked.

Can anyone blame New Mexico, California, Texas, Arizona or Oklahoma for toughening up the illegal immigration laws? There is a fear though. Do the states have the jurisdiction to do that since the current immigration laws are Federal? Or is Oklahoma setting itself up for a long, protracted lawsuit that will eventually find it's way to the U.S. Supreme Court and potentially open up a bigger can of worms?
 
The way it's supposed to work is that the constitution sets out what the the federal government can regulate. Anything not spelled out in that document is up to the states to regulate. As Ok. is not regulating the borders nor imposing limits on illegals what they are doing is perfectly in their pervue.

Restricts illegal immigrants' access to driver's licenses and ID cards.
A drivers license is not a right spelled out in the constitution, it's up to the states to regulate who gets to drive.

Cuts off several forms of public assistance for illegal immigrants. Emergency medical care, disaster aid and certain immunizations are exempted.
Public aid is also up to the state to regulate. Although the money does come from the FED it's actually just a return to the states of taxpayer tax dollars.

Makes it harder for illegal immigrants to pay in-state college tuition.
Another privilege the states regulate.

Encourages state and local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law.
This is just something the FED refuses to do. I don't see a problem with the state enforcing federal law.

Makes it a felony to harbor, transport, conceal or shelter illegal immigrants.
States right. They define their penal code.

Requires state and local governments to use a federal database that allows them to check potential employees' work eligibility.
It's there so use it.

Starting this summer, private employers and government contractors will have to verify employment eligibility of all new hires. Employers who don't could be sued.
Another thing the states have the right to regulate. Although these most likely mesh with the Homeland Security regulations.

As the FED continues to refuse to enforce the immigration laws already on the book, you will probably see more and more states taking the lead in illegal immigration with law just like Oklahoma's.
 
good points, jenny. lots of legal ramifications. but apart from that....

i'm interested in the data about economic impact. it would be interesting to see if (how much) the OK economy depends on illlegals.

even more to the point, in texas, with a much higher proportion of illegals, would be intriguing to see the effects of such a law.

my prediction is that few states will follow suit and that places like OK, will become the Mississippi's of 30 years back, OR quietly let their enforcement lapse, as business friendly officials come into power.

it's an axiom that "intractable" social problems-- as seen by the authorities, or certain citizens' groups-- are that way because SOME people are making lots of money, and lots of people are, if not benefiting mildly, unaffected. this applies to 'the drug war,' the adult prostitution issue, the internet 'porn problem, and the illegals "taking" jobs (it's alleged) from the lesser qualified.

from the official record, the McCain Kennedy bill, sometimes called Kyl Kennedy, supported by GWB, could not get past a cloture vote: those voting in favor of this eventual amnesty plan:

Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---46 --- Republicans asterisked*
Akaka (D-HI)
*Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
*Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
*Graham (R-SC)
**Hagel (R-NE)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
*Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
*Lott (R-MS)
*Lugar (R-IN)
*Martinez (R-FL)
*McCain (R-AZ)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
*Snowe (R-ME)
*Specter (R-PA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
 
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Pure,
From my own life, I have two neighbors. One is in her 70's living on social security. The other 33 and suffering from a long term illness. Both have been disqualifed for Section 8 housing assistance. Both have been disqualified for public assistance. And the younger cannot get medical assistance, even though it is available in this state. The old has Medicare, but that seems to be a grab-bag.

I went to County Housing with both of them several times in Novemeber. Finally, I was told if they were hispanics, have never worked, do not have drivers licenses, bank accounts or "green cards" and do not speak english it would be a shoe-in. But since both are natual born citizens and have worked for years (18-72 and 17 - 32 respectively) they do not qualify "at the current funding levels." I was advised to come back in January

Now that's the rub - "Current funding levels." Why coddle the illegals and crap on our own citizens who have supported the system?

So, I took both of them back to County Housing at the beginning of January. I was told, now under the 2008 rules the elderly woman on Social Security does not qualify because she makes too much money on SS. :eek:

The younger woman doesn't qualify now because she received $97/week in disability. It seems $1 of disability disqualifies you from housing assistance. :eek:

But still, I know for a fact that illegals are getting housing assistance, food stamps, free medical and so on even though they have never paid a dime into the system.

The system is truely fucked!
 
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Pure,
From my own life, I have two neighbors. One is in her 70's living on social security. The other 33 and suffering from a long term illness. Both have been disqualifed for Section 8 housing assistance. Both have been disqualified for public assistance. And the younger cannot get medical assistance, even though it is available in this state. The old has Medicare, but that seems to be a grab-bag.

I went to County Housing with both of them several times in Novemeber. Finally, I was told if they were hispanics, have never worked, do not have drivers licenses, bank accounts or "green cards" and do not speak english it would be a shoe-in. But since both are natual born citizens and have worked for years (18-72 and 17 - 32 respectively) they do not qualify "at the current funding levels." I was advised to come back in January

Now that's the rub - "Current funding levels." Why coddle the illegals and crap on our own citizens who have supported the system?

So, I took both of them back to County Housing at the beginning of January. I was told, now under the 2008 rules the elderly woman on Social Security does not qualify because she makes too much money on SS. :eek:

The younger woman doesn't qualify now because she received $97/week in disability. It seems $1 of disability disqualifies you from housing assistance. :eek:

But still, I know for a fact that illegals are getting housing assistance, food stamps, free medical and so on even though they have never paid a dime into the system.

The system is truely fucked!

This sort of thing truly sucks. I am of two minds about illegals. My wife used to be one, and some of her relatives still are, and all have always been contributing members of society. Still, it truly sucks that llegals should get any kind of preferential treatment. Many of them have paid their own way, but some of them never have and never will, and they are depriving citizens of what they should be entitled to. :mad:

And, please don't give me that crap about doing work that citizens won't do. Construction work used to be a good class of jobs, until illegals depressed the wages. Years ago, I did stoop labor in the fields, along with bus loads of American citizens. It wasn't a job I liked, and I am really glad to no longer need to do it, but I, and hundreds of thousands of others did it when it was necessary.

By the way, I don't believe it is legal to refuse schooling to children, regardless of their status.

As for those who were born in the US and are American citizens, that is too bad for them. They can either stay with their parents who go back where they belong, or stay in the US with friends or relatives.
 
This sort of thing truly sucks. I am of two minds about illegals. My wife used to be one, and some of her relatives still are, and all have always been contributing members of society. Still, it truly sucks that llegals should get any kind of preferential treatment. Many of them have paid their own way, but some of them never have and never will, and they are depriving citizens of what they should be entitled to. :mad:

Amen!
 
Jenny? Those excuses County Housing is using are just that, excuses. They're probably giving the illegals a different excuse.

Most likely the reality is that they no longer have any space available and won't for a very long time.

There's the same situation here in Ontario. Currently there's 60,000 people waiting for some form of assisted housing. A room is a two year wait. A place suitable for a family is ten years. Officially. Personally I think it's far worse than that.

I've applied for assisted housing three times in the last three years. I've been turned down every time. Because I hadn't filled the forms out properly. Last time I had a professional help me. :rolleyes:

The reasons for this problem in both systems is the same; the people with money and power don't care what happens to the poor and sick as long as they get to keep their money and power
 
Mexico sends us its problems. We get its unemployed, its sick, its homeless, its illiterates.

We are now a nation of cuckolds who neglects its own to nuture others.
 
note to jenny,

i don't think anyone wants preferential treatment for illegals. in some areas, perhaps, equal treatment, e.g. in ability to get a driver's license, ability to obtain certain kinds of medical care, e.g. emergency, and public health related (treatment for TB, e.g.).

in some areas, they should NOT have equality, as for example, a scholarship program run by the federal government, which could be limited to US citizens and legal longterm residents.

i doubt however that most animosity is due to 'preferential treatment' issues. much is due to language and culture. the tax issue, to my mind, is bogus.

note to jbj:

Mexico sends us its problems. We get its unemployed, its sick, its homeless, its illiterates.

sounds like hatred. any facts to back this up? whatever they WERE, it's pretty clear that the vast majority of illegal adults are working, lots of them very hard. so mexico in fact is "sending" mostly able bodied people willing to work and who take whatever is available to them, e.g. cleaning hotel rooms, gardening.etc.
it's pretty clear that something close to a majority of Congress members supports their staying and eventually becoming naturalized, if they remain employed and w/o criminal record.
 
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PURE

I have zero enmity for Mexicans. I dislike Bosnians and Kosovars....they remind me of the Clampetts fresh from Arkansas, boiling laundry over a fire on the front lawn while they pluck chickens and smoke pipes (the women). Mexicans have a lot more class.

Most of our illegals from Mexico come from the Yucatan area. Life there is a struggle. It isnt Acapulco or Mexico City. Its mostly subsistence farming on poor land. Our menial jobs are a godsend to these people. Their fellow citizens and officials exploit and abuse them all the way from Yucatan to the border.

If life was wonderful in Mexico they'd stay home.

At any rate, the local Mexican kids are pissed and protesting their status with regards to state scholarships to college. Its not fair, they say. WE PAY TAXES, TOO! Of course they do. Japanese tourists pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes. They insist on parity yet theyre in America illegally. They blow this distinction off.
 
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Hispanic illegal aliens come from many parts of Mexico and into central America. They don't come to the US because the want to, they don't share the culture here and they are treated like shit. They come here because it is very difficult, bordering on impossible for many to earn a living/decent living south of the border.

There a lot of young hispanic men living five to a one bedroom apartment, working every day they can find work and sending money from each paycheck back to 'the old country.' Many of the men are illiterate. However, even those who have an education can find only menial, hard labor jobs. The fortunate ones have learned a useful skill and can work for decent wages in the US.

Enforcement of the immigration laws will cause a great deal of hardship. However, if you don't enforce your laws, you don't have a country.

The solution to the problem is to create decent paying jobs south of the border. However, by now, the remittted wages from the illigal immigrants are a large part of the money earned in at least Mexico.

Another problem that is kind of skipped over is criminal illegal aliens. In the area in which I live, there was an illegal immigrant who was insane. His insanity manifested itself in killing other people. He was caught and deported to Mexico [for killing another illegal alien.] Apparently, the law in Mexico guarantees an insane criminal treatment. If there is no treatment available in the prison to which an insane criminal is sentenced, they apparently release the insane criminal into the street. Insane illegal immigrant came back to our area. The untrained people in our area dealt with the problem far better than PhD psychiatrists. It is well known in my area that an insane killer will always steal more chain than he can swim with. The insane killer was taken out to the river and, due to carelessness on the part of the people who were to watch him, he managed to break away, steal a length of chain, wrap himself in the stolen chain and then jump into the river. He no longer exhibits any symptoms of insanity.
 
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Jenny? Those excuses County Housing is using are just that, excuses. They're probably giving the illegals a different excuse.

Most likely the reality is that they no longer have any space available and won't for a very long time.


Rob,

I own and operate an apartment building. I see it every day. Hispanics fresh off the bus from San Diego or Phoenix looking for an apartment with their Section 8 vouchers in hand, while I get citizens who have gotten the exact same story from housing I got. The 33 year old woman is a Philipino born in Hawaii. At first she was all signed up until they discovered she wasn't hispanic.

Note to Pure: Add to your list - Mexico also sends it's criminals.
 
hi jenny,

maybe you could explain what a section 8 voucher is---a kind of rent subsidy, and

explain why a rent supplement for the needy disproportionately or improperely FAVORS illegals?

are you saying that if two householder sof equal, low, income apply, that the native-born people will be rejcted and the illegal accepted? who would be in charge of this policy?
 
I live in a country with very tight borders. Everything here is computerized and double-checked. Expectation of privacy is a lot less than in America.

We still have illegals here, and you know why? Because there are some groups profiting very handsomely from paying hunger salaries to people who have no right to complaining.

The tales of abuse are numerous, and numerous attempts at expelling them have failed. The educated majority does not want to work in farm, elderly care, cleaning.

So I can tell you already, it won't work.

Maharat
 
hi jenny,

maybe you could explain what a section 8 voucher is---a kind of rent subsidy, and

explain why a rent supplement for the needy disproportionately or improperely FAVORS illegals?

are you saying that if two householder sof equal, low, income apply, that the native-born people will be rejcted and the illegal accepted? who would be in charge of this policy?

Potentially. Vouchers are broken up into income based and "project" based, where project based are meant to satisify a specific demographic quota.
 
hi jenny,

maybe you could explain what a section 8 voucher is---a kind of rent subsidy, and

explain why a rent supplement for the needy disproportionately or improperely FAVORS illegals?

are you saying that if two householder sof equal, low, income apply, that the native-born people will be rejcted and the illegal accepted? who would be in charge of this policy?

The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) reimburses states for rental assistance for the needy under Title 101, Section 8. However, each state and sometimes each county is allowed to make their own rules with respect to the distribution of the funds. The county here issues "Secion 8 vouchers" which is a guarantee to the landloard that the county will pay all or a substantial amount of the tenant's rent based on a long HUD contractual arrangement that you must agree too.

This county, Washington, historically has a heavy hispanic population because this was until recently a farming community. Hispanics, both legal and illegal, have always been given preference for health and safety reasons. Those reasons no longer exist, but the preferential treatment continues.
 
i don't think anyone wants preferential treatment for illegals. in some areas, perhaps, equal treatment, e.g. in ability to get a driver's license, ability to obtain certain kinds of medical care, e.g. emergency, and public health related (treatment for TB, e.g.).

in some areas, they should NOT have equality, as for example, a scholarship program run by the federal government, which could be limited to US citizens and legal longterm residents.

i doubt however that most animosity is due to 'preferential treatment' issues. much is due to language and culture. the tax issue, to my mind, is bogus.

note to jbj:

Mexico sends us its problems. We get its unemployed, its sick, its homeless, its illiterates.

sounds like hatred. any facts to back this up? whatever they WERE, it's pretty clear that the vast majority of illegal adults are working, lots of them very hard. so mexico in fact is "sending" mostly able bodied people willing to work and who take whatever is available to them, e.g. cleaning hotel rooms, gardening.etc.
it's pretty clear that something close to a majority of Congress members supports their staying and eventually becoming naturalized, if they remain employed and w/o criminal record.

Illegal aliens come from all over the world. The ones I have met came from the Philippines. and are generally educated and hard working.

I am sure there are no reliable figures available, but I would venture to say that the majority of illegals are from Mexico, and almost all the problem ones are. The ones I know are, and have been decent, hard-working, law-abiding (for the most part) people.

However, I think it's pretty obvious that Mexico sends us their unemployed (After all, they come here looking for jobs, ergo: they are unemployed) its sick, (This is one of the problems, their clogging of emergency treatment rooms. In addition, some of them have conditions, such as TB, which are endemic in parts of Mexico, but were almost unknown in the US, before the arrival of the illegals.). its homeless (They are certainly homeless when they arrive), and its illiterates (in English, at least. Many of them don't speak English, so how can they read and write in the language?)

You said "...the vast majority of illegal adults are working..." Do you have any statistics. Probably the majority are, but "the vast majority"?

I don't believe the animosity is due to language and culture. People in the US bend over backward to accommodate those of different cultures. There probably is some resentment if the illegals don't learn English, because this is seen as an unwillingness for them to try to adapt. The main resentment is their receiving preferences, such as Jenny and others have pointed out. Why should somebody, whose presence is a violation of the law, receive anything but the backs of our hands? If somebody climbed through your window, with nothing even close to an invitation, and wanted to join you and your family for dinner, would you make that person welcome?

Its pretty clear that a majority of Congress members (those crooks!) do NOT support having illegals staying and becoming US citizens. They voted against the last proposal that would have done that. Many wealthy people like the idea of a cheap labor force, but I would be willing to bet that most citizens wish they would go home and stay there.

I disagree with the idea that "They do the work that Americans refuse to do". They do the work that most Americans refuse to do for the low pay being offered.
 
The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) reimburses states for rental assistance for the needy under Title 101, Section 8. However, each state and sometimes each county is allowed to make their own rules with respect to the distribution of the funds. The county here issues "Secion 8 vouchers" which is a guarantee to the landloard that the county will pay all or a substantial amount of the tenant's rent based on a long HUD contractual arrangement that you must agree too.

This county, Washington, historically has a heavy hispanic population because this was until recently a farming community. Hispanics, both legal and illegal, have always been given preference for health and safety reasons. Those reasons no longer exist, but the preferential treatment continues.

This is reprehensible. :mad:It's probably also a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to give preference on the basis of ethnicity. :mad:
 
This is reprehensible. :mad:It's probably also a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to give preference on the basis of ethnicity. :mad:
Preference based on ethnicity is pretty common. Minority-owned businesses have special perks and incentives in some areas, a friend of mine lost his gas station because he simply couldn't compete with the minority owned ones in his area. Too many tax or subsidized incentives.

Shame, really.
 
However, I think it's pretty obvious that Mexico sends us their unemployed (After all, they come here looking for jobs, ergo: they are unemployed) its sick, (This is one of the problems, their clogging of emergency treatment rooms. In addition, some of them have conditions, such as TB, which are endemic in parts of Mexico, but were almost unknown in the US, before the arrival of the illegals.). its homeless (They are certainly homeless when they arrive), and its illiterates (in English, at least. Many of them don't speak English, so how can they read and write in the language?)

In the life of an economic nation, no matter what country, three classes will emerge: A rich, affluent class of owners, a middle class of skilled and semiskilled workers and an indigent lower class made up of those who have been left behind.

With the NAFTA bill the U.S. created a large middle class in Mexico. Generally, an emerging economic country takes steps to care for the lowest, indegent class. Mexico has not. The Mexincan government sees the United States as their welfare system. That's a big problem for us.
 
personally, i'm not so much into further discussing the legal and 'fairness' issues.

what intrigues me is that OK has likely shot itself in the foot; certainly Texas would do so, if it followed suit.

while some people like Jenny "feel" mad about things and Congress reacts to the furor over immigration. but even after the furor, BOTH arizona senators voted to further GWB's approved plan. over 40 Dems and Republicans. i needn't remind you of the millionaires in the Senate. so there was furor and 'defeat' of Mc Cain Kennedy, etc. but what does that mean?

things will remain the same. the reform failed; the status quo continues. McCain, Obama and Hillary want that, and they represent the predominance of business interests.

==

JennyThe Mexincan government sees the United States as their welfare system.

Jenny, think for a minute: a two bit gov is dictating US policy? i don't think so. Rather the American government, reflecting a number of business interests-- in agriculture, hotels, 'service,' down to the little restaurants needing dishwashers---
dictates a porous border and NOT making it to difficult for an illegal worker to get by. There are a few 'welfare' expenses, but note they are not borne by the agribusinesses, with low corporate taxes' they are borne by the working and middle classes.
 
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personally, i'm not so much into further discussing the legal and 'fairness' issues.

what intrigues me is that OK has likely shot itself in the foot; certainly Texas would do so, if it followed suit.

while some people like Jenny "feel" mad about things and Congress reacts to the furor over immigration. but even after the furor, BOTH arizona senators voted to further GWB's approved plan. over 40 Dems and Republicans. i needn't remind you of the millionaires in the Senate. so there was furor and 'defeat' of Mc Cain Kennedy, etc. but what does that mean?

things will remain the same. the reform failed; the status quo continues. McCain, Obama and Hillary want that, and they represent the predominance of business interests.

==

JennyThe Mexincan government sees the United States as their welfare system.

Jenny, think for a minute: a two bit gov is dictating US policy? i don't think so. Rather the American government, reflecting a number of business interests-- in agriculture, hotels, 'service,' down to the little restaurants needing dishwashers---
dictates a porous border and NOT making it to difficult for an illegal worker to get by. There are a few 'welfare' expenses, but note they are not borne by the agribusinesses, with low corporate taxes' they are borne by the working and middle classes.

I don't think you should be referring to the gov't of Mexico in such a disparaging way. With a population of 109 million, the country is the 11th largest in the world, and the 12th largest economy, according to Wikipedia.

I agree with Jenny that the US is their welfare system. They have millions of their people in the US who remit money to their families back home. This is their second largest source of foreign exchange. Their government is highly in favor of the status quo. Otherwise, I agree with you.

So are most of the wealthy persons in the US, and the politicians they own will do their bidding. A low-cost labor force that can be fired at will is just what they want, for numerous rasons, mostly the cost, but also because there won't be as many whistle blowers to worry about. Those people don't have to worry about such things as crowded emergency rooms, and schools and Section 8 housing and decent-paying jobs and all the things that concern middle and lower class Americans.

I don't know how the OK law will turn out. It should, I think, be constitutional, but one never knows. Some shyster will try to fight it, and it will end up in SCOUS. Those justices don't have to worry about reelection, so they might do the right thing and uphold it. We can only hope.
 
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