What I don't get is that nobody wants this war yet...

[p_p_man]

we're all allowing George and poodle Tony to lead us into it.

In the good old days we would have had a revolution by now and forced our own 'change of regimes'.

Young people of the US and the UK the ball is firmly in your court. Stop the march to war!

Sit down for your beliefs...

Passive resistance - therein lies the key.

ppman

 

[Ishmael]

we're all allowing George and poodle Tony to lead us into it.

In the good old days we would have had a revolution by now and forced our own 'change of regimes'.

Young people of the US and the UK the ball is firmly in your court. Stop the march to war!

Sit down for your beliefs...

Passive resistance - therein lies the key.

ppman

Yep. RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a big open spot in lower Manhattan where they can sit.

Ishmael

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: What I don't get is that nobody wants this war yet...

Yep. RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a big open spot in lower Manhattan where they can sit.

Ishmael

And I suppose in your own and George's twisted way of thinking, Saddam created it...

ppman

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: What I don't get is that nobody wants this war yet...

And I suppose in your own and George's twisted way of thinking, Saddam created it...

ppman

If I provide funds and succor for a group that I know is involved in terrorism, then I am an accessory before the fact. It matters not whether I knew of the specific plans or not. The fact that I provided them funds, material, or a roof over their heads with the knowledge of what their goals are makes it so.

His ties to, and patronage of, terrorist organizations is well known and documented back into the 80's.

But that isn't the reason to bring him down. Not the only reason.

Ishmael

 

[Linedrive]

I'm sorta biased towards not seeing one of my cities go up in a mushroom cloud, so I'll hold off on the revolution for now.

 

[Eagle70]

Youth of the US...yep, i fall into that demographic...and ya know what? i WANT this war. BAD. i WANNA go in there and rip them all apart. I'm bloodthirsty, i cant help it.

 

[Chuckus]

we're all allowing George and poodle Tony to lead us into it.

In the good old days we would have had a revolution by now and forced our own 'change of regimes'.

Young people of the US and the UK the ball is firmly in your court. Stop the march to war!

Sit down for your beliefs...

Passive resistance - therein lies the key.

ppman

peepster,

Just for the record to you............I don't really want to go into Iraq, honest I don't ~ however in the end I don't think Saddam is going to comply with ANYTHING that ANYONE says he must. Sure on the "surface" he will say "We will let you in" and then when it comes time to put your $$$ where your mouth is, he will back out and give the Inspectors "specified areas and times" they can view, along with still NOT complying with other UN Mandated Resolutions that HE was supposd to comply with long ago.

It is time to stop passing the buck and put up or shut up, IMHO. I say we, the World, give him a MONTH max to comply or else......

This charade with Iraq has gone on ffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrr tooooooooooooo long and it is time to shit or get off the pot, I for one think we take a shit and remove the bastard from the face of the planet whilst we are at it.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with going to war ~ but since the US and the rest of the World have been trying anyways for such a long time to get him to comply.........and he has not (nor do I think he wil) complied thus far it is time to take action. ~ and diplomacy will not work with Saddam he will just stall.

This is all IMHO.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

The irony is, Saddam, if he did finance terrorism, did it with CIA funds. Funny how it all comes back to bite.

 

[Ishmael]

The irony is, Saddam, if he did finance terrorism, did it with CIA funds. Funny how it all comes back to bite.

Of course he did. The oil money doesn't begin to cover household expenses.

Where do these yokels come from?

Ishmael

 

[REDWAVE]

Threadbare arguments

The arguments for this war with Iraq are ludicrously threadbare. Applying Ishmael's own reasoning, the U.S. government provided "funds and succor" to the Iraqi regime during the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. Thus the U.S. government is an accesory before the fact. Ditto for the "terrorists" and the Taliban. Osama bin Laden was originally funded and supported by the CIA as one of the "heroic mujahadeen" fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. The Taliban was created by Pakistan's ISI, itself heavily funded by the U.S. government.

Guess that means we'll have to bomb and invade ourselves.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Threadbare arguments

The arguments for this war with Iraq are ludicrously threadbare. Applying Ishmael's own reasoning, the U.S. government provided "funds and succor" to the Iraqi regime during the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. Thus the U.S. government is an accesory before the fact. Ditto for the "terrorists" and the Taliban. Osama bin Laden was originally funded and supported by the CIA as one of the "heroic mujahadeen" fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. The Taliban was created by Pakistan's ISI, itself heavily funded by the U.S. government.

Guess that means we'll have to bomb and invade ourselves.

Quote a reputable source or shut the fuck up.

Ishmael

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

We would ask for the same courtesy.

 

[REDWAVE]

"Shut the fuck up"

Ah yes, the debating tactics of thugs. You would have made an excellent brownshirt, Ishmule.

The factual assertions I made are all quite well known-- to anyone at all well informed, at least. Since you apparently don't fall in that category, look it up.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

C'mon Ishmael....a man of your wisdom surely must know how to do internet searches.

Here are some good keywords: George, Bush, Old Bones, Henry Stimson, Iraq. Now do some reading...some good 'ol fashioned, propaganda free, non-brainwashing reading. Once you see a bigger picture...or one less muted by background noise, then return.

Yokel? Sure...a yokel.

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: "Shut the fuck up"

Ah yes, the debating tactics of thugs. You would have made an excellent brownshirt, Ishmule.

The factual assertions I made are all quite well known-- to anyone at all well informed, at least. Since you apparently don't fall in that category, look it up.

hmmm



provide some references for your babble.

 

[Chuckus]

RedRipple you have such a terrible view of things.

Sure the CIA did this, sure the CIA did that.......that was then and this is NOW. Saddam is a REAL threat to the stability of the Middle East and in all reality the world when you really stop and think about it.

You can say all you want about "yadda yadda the CIA" did this......sure I they made mistakes, we all do, we are human, now we have to and must correct the error in judgement. In reality it was a case of the "lesser of two evils".........and at the time Osama and Saddam were in fact the lesser of two evils.

Saddam has NOT nor will he EVER comply with the UN Resolutions, not just the Arms Inspectors........therefore an appropriate action and recourse must be taken, sure we might "owe" him some time to do it, but haven't we, the World and the US, given him plenty of time since the early '90s?

C'mon and grow a pair already.........I don't like the fact that people will be killed and innocent people will die, but would you rather mushroom clouds and clouds of Chemical/Biological weapons shroud the Middle East and/or other portions of the world? Saddam WILL use them, he has shown before that he is capable and willing to..........

 

[Sandia]

War... It's like football, only bloodier.

 

[Chuckus]

RedRipple you have such a terrible view of things.

Sure the CIA did this, sure the CIA did that.......that was then and this is NOW. Saddam is a REAL threat to the stability of the Middle East and in all reality the world when you really stop and think about it.

You can say all you want about "yadda yadda the CIA" did this......sure I they made mistakes, we all do, we are human, now we have to and must correct the error in judgement. In reality it was a case of the "lesser of two evils".........and at the time Osama and Saddam were in fact the lesser of two evils.

Saddam has NOT nor will he EVER comply with the UN Resolutions, not just the Arms Inspectors........therefore an appropriate action and recourse must be taken, sure we might "owe" him some time to do it, but haven't we, the World and the US, given him plenty of time since the early '90s?

C'mon and grow a pair already.........I don't like the fact that people will be killed and innocent people will die, but would you rather mushroom clouds and clouds of Chemical/Biological weapons shroud the Middle East and/or other portions of the world (that I might add will kill FAR GREATER amounts of people, innocent as well)? Saddam WILL use them, he has shown before that he is capable and willing to..........

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

Here's a pretty good propaganda free place to start....very nice essay. A real eye-opener.

http://www.freedomdomain.com/secretsocieties/skull01.html

 

[Ishmael]

We would ask for the same courtesy.

You brought the CIA bullshit to the party, not me.

The CIA has never operated effectively outside of Europe. Ever. Further, the CIA does not pay money to governments. It pays to individuals, individuals known as agents or spies. Saddams aresenal, then and now, is noticably lacking in western armaments. And technology. France being the sole exception.

Contrary to the opinion of the dyed in the wool conspirarist's, the US did not supply Hussein with logistic or intelligence during the first gulf war. If we had, those bunch of paper waving teenagers out of Iran wouldn't have defeated him. Althought the war was technically a draw, Iran won. Make no mistake there.

Which is an interesting point. He's gotten his ass kicked everytime he's taken on anyone except widows and children. Doesn't say much for the man's 'generalship', or his forces.

Ishmael

 

[Sandia]

Go team, Go!

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

RedRipple you have such a terrible view of things.

Sure the CIA did this, sure the CIA did that.......that was then and this is NOW. Saddam is a REAL threat to the stability of the Middle East and in all reality the world when you really stop and think about it.

You can say all you want about "yadda yadda the CIA" did this......sure I they made mistakes, we all do, we are human, now we have to and must correct the error in judgement. In reality it was a case of the "lesser of two evils".........and at the time Osama and Saddam were in fact the lesser of two evils.

Saddam has NOT nor will he EVER comply with the UN Resolutions, not just the Arms Inspectors........therefore an appropriate action and recourse must be taken, sure we might "owe" him some time to do it, but haven't we, the World and the US, given him plenty of time since the early '90s?

C'mon and grow a pair already.........I don't like the fact that people will be killed and innocent people will die, but would you rather mushroom clouds and clouds of Chemical/Biological weapons shroud the Middle East and/or other portions of the world? Saddam WILL use them, he has shown before that he is capable and willing to..........

And this is the US's problem because?

If we used that level of thinking on a worldwide level, then why aren't we in Chechnia? or in Georgia? or in China? stability? Do you happen to mean stable oil prices?

 

[Chuckus]

And this is the US's problem because?

If we used that level of thinking on a worldwide level, then why aren't we in Chechnia? or in Georgia? or in China? stability? Do you happen to mean stable oil prices?

Well let's just pull out of everywhere and let WW3 begin? How about that? That'd be cool wouldn't it?

Ghesshhhhhhh already.

 

[HeavyStick]

I hear redcockbite starting a new thread.... he's been overpowered with facts that have references and not goobledy-gook he remembers while getting stoned in an old refrigerator box.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

You brought the CIA bullshit to the party, not me.

The CIA has never operated effectively outside of Europe. Ever. Further, the CIA does not pay money to governments. It pays to individuals, individuals known as agents or spies. Saddams aresenal, then and now, is noticably lacking in western armaments. And technology. France being the sole exception.

Contrary to the opinion of the dyed in the wool conspirarist's, the US did not supply Hussein with logistic or intelligence during the first gulf war. If we had, those bunch of paper waving teenagers out of Iran wouldn't have defeated him. Althought the war was technically a draw, Iran won. Make no mistake there.

Which is an interesting point. He's gotten his ass kicked everytime he's taken on anyone except widows and children. Doesn't say much for the man's 'generalship', or his forces.

Ishmael

Hmmmm....Iran/Contra?....Iran/Iraq war....Afghanistan....smells of CIA actions and government payoffs to me. None are in Europe either. But then again, I don't hang out at Langley, or have access to top-secret CIA files, so I wouldn't really know anyways. But wait, that means....you wouldn't either.