What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[4est_4est_Gump]

This is exactly what OWS is protesting about. Tea Party too...

NOVEMBER 15, 2011 4:00 A.M.
Fisker’s Political Connections
A single venture-capital firm is tied to several “stimulated” enterprises.
Lachlan Markay, NRO

Conservatives generally object to “stimulus” spending on two grounds: It’s not an effective job creator, because it redirects money from companies that don’t need government backing to ones that do, and it breeds political favoritism. But amid the ruckus over federal financing for Fisker Automotive’s Finnish-produced line of sports cars — American taxpayers supporting Finland’s labor market — little attention has been paid to the political muscle backing Fisker and a host of other federally financed “green” firms.

Hoover Institution fellow Peter Schweizer reports in his new book that as of mid-September, 80 percent of Energy Department renewable-energy loans went to firms that have supported the president or his party financially. The administration, for its part, seems more concerned with the “optics” of such allegations than the problematic nature of a federal bureaucracy that rewards political insiders. Hence, a former Obama campaign staffer suggested in February that Energy Secretary Steven Chu be fired, not for any alleged wrongdoing, but rather to preempt “the wave of GOP attacks that are surely coming over Solyndra and other inside DOE deals that have gone to Obama donors and have underperformed.”

In the case of Fisker specifically, conservatives should recognize the importance of California venture-capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers — which is one of Fisker’s larger investors, having contributed mightily to its initial $1.1 billion capital infusion. The company is teeming with political connections.

Al Gore joined Kleiner Perkins as a senior partner in 2007 — to save the planet, CNN reported. Top Kleiner Perkins executives have given more than a million dollars to federal candidates and parties since 1991, most of it going to Democrats. Obama himself has received $19,000 from the company’s employees.

While Gore is the most famous Kleiner Perkins executive, John Doerr, another senior partner, has also been very active in liberal politics. He currently sits on the president’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board, and hosted President Obama at his home for a dinner with top Silicon Valley executives in February. Doerr was also very active in pushing the Global Warming Solutions Act, California’s punitive 2006 carbon-emissions law.

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Brook Byers, also a major partner, has made $391,110 in political contributions since 1990, $148,500 of which went directly to the Democratic party (most of the rest went to individual Democratic candidates). Kleiner Perkins co-founder Frank Caufield’s $394,950 in political contributions since 1990 have gone almost entirely to Democrats. Another top partner, David Blood, helped organizea $2,300-a-head fundraiser for Candidate Obama in 2008.

Vice President Joe Biden’s October 2009 visit to Fisker’s Delaware production facility has fueled criticism of the $529 million in taxpayer financing for the company. But Fisker was not the only Kleiner Perkins–backed company to enjoy a visit from a top administration official.

Electric-vehicle manufacturer Proterra hosted Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood at its Greenville, S.C., production facility in January. LaHood touted the visit on his blog under the headline “Winning the future, Proterra style.” Energy Secretary Steven Chu toured the Las Vegas production facilities of solar-panel manufacturer Amonix in June “to see first-hand how the Obama Administration’s renewable energy policies are turning into economic activity and energy independence.” Amonix and Proterra both received financing through Obama’s stimulus package — $5.9 million for the former, and $6.6 million for the latter.

Amonix, Proterra, and Fisker are three of at least nine companies financed by Kleiner Perkins that have received taxpayer backing in the form of direct payments, contracts, or preferable tax treatment. The others include EdeniQ, FloDesign, MiaSole, Primus Power, QuantumScape, and TAS Energy. Kleiner Perkins did not respond to a request for comment on this story.

With vocal protest movements on the left and right speaking out against crony capitalism and a congressional supercommittee searching for savings, the realization that stimulus spending privileges the connected could lend some popularity to a fiscal policy that rewards economic merit rather than political muscle.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I'm sorry, I have no desire to make ad hominem attacks, and if you feel I have done so, I unreservedly withdraw them. I was trying to have a debate about ideas. You are pretty rude here, and I am not, so I'm not clear why you would think that I'm being ad hominem and you're not, but there you go.

You believe in Locke: << The Natural rights of Man are Life, Liberty and Property. >>

You then go on to say << Therefore Capitalism is all about the smallest possible minority, the individual.>>

I don't see the logic in that. I've studied Locke, have you? How does the one follow from the other?

I asked you a very specific question, said I honoured Mises and Hayek, and the quote in your answer, which is not an answer to my very specific question, is not from them but from Rothbard. I don't get why people would respect him.

Patrick

I am not rude, I am, however, direct.

The natural rights were not about the group "man," but as I alluded to, about (a) man, each individual being endowed with by creator with certain inalienable rights and all that jazz...

Rothbard is Mises' finest student (imho, and others). The supporting materials are to confirm that Mises, et al were focused on the individual, not the group as in Socialism...

They respect him for his writings. Have you read "What has government done to your money?"

Free download at Mises.org

 

[Saint Peter]

You are rude.

Don't be lying.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You are rude.

Don't be lying.

It's the light rail issue, isn't it...



I am rude to stupidity, I'll grant you that, but I allow several whacks at the piñata before I put them on rude.

Now, suckit biatch! And, I mean that in a nice way...

 

[Saint Peter]

It's the light rail issue, isn't it...



I am rude to stupidity, I'll grant you that, but I allow several whacks at the piñata before I put them on rude.

Now, suckit biatch! And, I mean that in a nice way...

Well, as long as you allow them several whacks and all of that.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Well, as long as you allow them several whacks and all of that.

I like to whack the hiney...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

On self-labeled Libertarians...

The comments are the most informative:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/libertarians_and_ows_useful_idiots.html

You won't find OWS support over at Mises.org; precious little at Reason.com.

Wanna choc'late?

 

[fair_warning]

I am not rude, I am, however, direct.

Your understanding of rude is not mine.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Your understanding of rude is not mine.

*yawn*


Back for another whack?

 

[fair_warning]

*yawn*

yeah, it is getting late.
Nitety nite.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

yeah, it is getting late.
Nitety nite.

Don't let the door whack you in the ass...



Is that rude?

 

[fair_warning]

Don't let the door whack you in the ass...



Is that rude?

Not rude. Just a tad pompous.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

While it is difficult to gauge the odds precisely, an analysis of leading U.S. economic indicators suggests a rising chance of a recession through the end of the year and into early next year, researchers at the regional Fed bank wrote on Monday. The risk of recession recedes after the second half of 2012, they found.

New governments in Greece and Italy, with fresh promises to tackle fiscal problems have in recent days, allayed investor concerns about a near-term sovereign debt default in the euro zone, but Europe's debt crisis is far from resolved. The region is facing its worst hour since World War II, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Monday.

Although domestic threats to economic growth in the United States are limited, a shock from abroad could derail a fragile recovery.

The weak U.S. economy is more than usually vulnerable to turbulence beyond its borders, as the unexpectedly severe U.S. effects from Japan's devastating earthquake in March demonstrates, the researchers said.

"A European sovereign debt default may well sink the United States back into recession," wrote Travis Berge, Early Elias and Oscar Jorda in the latest San Francisco Fed Economic Letter. "However, if we navigate the storm through the second half of 2012, it appears that danger will recede rapidly in 2013.

The assessment of recession risk is more dire than that of many private economists. A November 4 Reuters poll of primary dealers shows Wall Street economists see a 30 percent chance of a U.S. recession next year, down from 35.5 percent a month earlier.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/14/us-usa-fed-recession-idUSTRE7AD1PR20111114

The problem that private economists didn't realize is that we are a lot more exposed to Euro debt contagion than previously thought. And while the immediate crisis has been salved with the new Greek and Italian governments taking the reins, the fundamental issues still remain; too much debt, not enough buyers for bonds of troubled countries.

Every bond sale in Italy and Greece for the foreseeable future will be fraught with suspense. Every panic attack by euro investors will bring the EU to the brink of collapse. It could all melt down at any time and there's nothing we can do about it except watch.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog..._recession_in_2012_tops_50.html#ixzz1dmUY9ZZ7

Have a Nice Day! Will we see 12K again? Magic 8-Ball says...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Not rude. Just a tad pompous.

I'll take that; now, kiss my ring...



Wanna choc'late?

 

[patrick1]

I am not rude, I am, however, direct.

The natural rights were not about the group "man," but as I alluded to, about (a) man, each individual being endowed with by creator with certain inalienable rights and all that jazz...

Rothbard is Mises' finest student (imho, and others). The supporting materials are to confirm that Mises, et al were focused on the individual, not the group as in Socialism...

They respect him for his writings. Have you read "What has government done to your money?"

Free download at Mises.org

Well, I think Rothbard is a fool. There you go.

I find him very sexist. He speaks constantly of 'Man', and refers to 'Every man...' as if that were the only sort of person who might, for instance, own property.

Inspired by you I am indeed reading the article about money. Here's an example:

<< This process: the cumulative development of a medium
of exchange on the free market—is the only way money can
become established. Money cannot originate in any other
way, neither by everyone suddenly deciding to create money
out of useless material, nor by government calling bits of
paper “money.” For embedded in the demand for money is
knowledge of the money-prices of the immediate past; in
contrast to directly-used consumers’ or producers’ goods,
money must have preexisting prices on which to ground a
demand.>>>

I'm open to persuasion about money, but this is a strange piece of rhetoric. It fiddles with the word 'originate' - we can all see, in the historical sense, how this may be right, about the historical origin of money - but implies, as the piece will go on later to maintain, without any clear evidence I know of - that present-day money-creation might 'originate' only under the same rules. This to me is cheap propaganda. It's just using the ambiguity of words to propose a point of view. It doesn't put reference to evidence within it, and in that sense, to me, dishonours the Austrian School.

There are all sorts of wacky ideas around about money, especially after the events of the last few years. Some of the ideas on the left are mad in my view too. This isn't a brilliant example, as I see it. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Please don't be rude.

Patrick

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

I read a piece in The New Yorker about how the recent, successful anti-illegal immigrant laws in Louisiana have been responsible for employers down there suddenly being way short of employees, and...

...that there's an abundance of jobs available for American citizens (as the law(s) were intended to cause), but there's virtually no Americans applying for the jobs. The very few who do show up to work evidently don't stay to work, since the work is so beneath them and their pay demands.

Now...

...I can understand a high school drop-out figuring out that collecting unemployment and government assistance is more his/her style than actually grunting-out a living and working for minimum wage, but what of those whose unemployment benies have expired and have no other recourse? Are they're actually that many millions of people in this country that believe working hard for minimum wages is not even worth not working at all?

On the front page of the San Antonio, Texas, newspaper this morning is the headline:

Companies struggling to find workers

America has spent record amounts of taxpayer money on education and training and retraining...

...and receives in return record illiteracy rates and folks who view themselves as over-qualified but can't even hold a minimum wage job.


I've spent 6 years and $100K getting my Masters in advanced human psychology...

...and you expect me to pick friggin' tomatoes 'cause society doesn't have a job worth me automatically waiting?!?!?!

Ha!

 

[busybody..]

The economy is getting better

Because of that and because Obama is a NIGGER

He is a shoo in in 12

 

[unregistered]

 

[patrick1]

In times of hardship, the undeserving poor get blamed for a lot of things.

At the moment there are not enough jobs for people unemployed, in most western and north American countries. This is because of a recession caused by a small number of rich thieves working in a small number of banks in the USA and Western Europe.

If every scoundrel among the poor in every corner of the world were reformed miraculously - there would no more jobs than there are now, and there are not enough jobs to go round.

Patrick

 

[koalabear]

I'm sorry, I have no desire to make ad hominem attacks, and if you feel I have done so, I unreservedly withdraw them. I was trying to have a debate about ideas. You are pretty rude here, and I am not, so I'm not clear why you would think that I'm being ad hominem and you're not, but there you go.

You believe in Locke: << The Natural rights of Man are Life, Liberty and Property. >>

You then go on to say << Therefore Capitalism is all about the smallest possible minority, the individual.>>

I don't see the logic in that. I've studied Locke, have you? How does the one follow from the other?

I asked you a very specific question, said I honoured Mises and Hayek, and the quote in your answer, which is not an answer to my very specific question, is not from them but from Rothbard. I don't get why people would respect him.

Patrick

Now there is a rare term.........

 

[koalabear]

Stocks waver on European uncertainty
Italy's new leader struggles to form a government. Yields on Spanish, Italian and French bonds spike. Readings on retail sales and manufacturing come in better than expected. Gold and oil rise.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=%24US%3AINDU&width=298&height=160&c1=3&ce=0&cf=0&d2=0&d3=0&d4=1&d5=0&e8=1&legend=0&banner=5&af=2&palette=2

 

[busybody..]

^^Can it

Mkts are better

Economy is getting much better

Obama in a landslide

 

[koalabear]

^^Can it

Mkts are better

Economy is getting much better

Obama in a landslide

On which mountain?

 

[unregistered]