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What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

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vetteman said:
He told me a few posts ago, he was everything except the HR person when I asked him if he was the Colonel, the doctor, the HR person, or the Wall Street Guru.

He's afraid to debate conduct unbecoming because as it stands right now he could technically be court martialed for it, simply because he's bringing discredit upon himself, or his service.
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Try asking UD, MORON will answer. :)
 
vetteman said:
He's afraid to debate conduct unbecoming because as it stands right now he could technically be court martialed for it, simply because he's bringing discredit upon himself, or his service.
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Seriously? :)

You're the one who said that Clinton, Bush, and Obama should all have been impeached, right? Now I need to be impeached as well?

Your answer to everything... Charge em! Sent 'em to jail!!!
 
RightField said:
Different standards I guess.

They say love is blind...is that Merc's problem?
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He's insane. Easy diagnosis, like the Fort Hood shooter.

I wasn't going to post this, but you'll love it!

There are many on the Euroskeptic right who can see a silver lining to a potential breakdown of the European Union as we now know it. Such a view is understandable; having been dismissed as xenophobic, economically illiterate racists for daring to oppose the great socialist European project since the early 1990s, we have finally been proven right. Certainly, we have been right for years, but now it is undeniable.

Europe is in continent-wide debt, the Euro currency is in its death throes, and the financial stability of all of Europe depends on...Greece. Surely no one can deny that the European project as conceived by the socialist left is dead, and that we need to fundamentally rewrite the that project. Right?

Wrong -- for it seems that the left aren't learning from their mistakes. In Britain, the classic example of this is the leader of the Liberal Democrats -- and current deputy prime minister of the British Coalition government -- Nick Clegg.

The Liberal Democrats are the main pro-European force in British politics, and have been the strongest advocates for British entry into the Euro, as it was the only British political party united on the issue. Luckily for the United Kingdom, they failed to get their way, and Britain has retained the pound sterling.

The Euro has been shown to be such a monumental failure that even Clegg -- a strong voice in the pro-Euro camp -- came out as this year's conference and declared that "with the benefit of hindsight, you can say it would have been a huge, huge error" for Britain to have entered the Euro.

This stunning admittance of error is equivalent to a right-wing party concluding that capitalism doesn't work, or a left-wing party acknowledging that the welfare state doesn't help poor families. One would assume that this U-turn on the issue by a major left-wing party, as well as the obvious collapse of the European project as a whole, would lead to massive self-evaluation and a penitential spirit from left-wing journalists and politicians.

Yet, less than a few months later, those on the left in favor of a European superstate are running their mouths again at those who would dare continue to oppose their grand scheme. Socialist business secretary Vince Cable stated at the same conference where Clegg backed down that the Euro currency could still be a success -- although he of course failed to outline how this could happen.

Additionally, left-wing commentators have failed to drop their tiresome refrain that Euroskeptics are nothing but racist weirdos who don't know what they are talking about, with The Guardian's correspondent Polly Toynbee decrying recent calls from British conservatives for a European referendum as luxuriating in "escapist Europhobia" while The Independent's Andrew Grice dismissed Euroskeptics as "dreamers" whose economic arguments are nothing more than reflexive euro-bashing.

Yet the most gobsmacking attacks on Euroskeptics comes from the same Nick Clegg who -- less than two months after admitting that he was entirely wrong on the biggest economic decision in modern British history -- now feels that he is just the man to lecture the people who were entirely right on the issue as to how he knows better.

As the Euroskeptics call for a retreat from the sinking ship of the EU that liberals like Clegg put Britain on, Clegg has responded by condescendingly lecturing the right on how important Europe is, arguing:

It is only by having a loud voice in a united Europe that we can promote the open economy that will deliver growth. Being shoved to the margins, or retreating there voluntarily, would be economic suicide: a surefire way to hurt British businesses and lose jobs.

This hectoring tone becomes more jarring when one realizes that it is the same argument that was used to put Britain knee-deep in the mess in the first place, and it was also used by Europhiles like Clegg to convince Britons to commit hara-kiri by submitting to the doomed Euro currency. It was just as wrong then as it is now, and yet the argument is still being wheeled out by the ideologically blinkered left.

Nick Clegg is of note, as he is a textbook example of the European elite politicians who are currently making the key decisions for Europe's future. Those Eurorealists who were hoping that the last few years would convince the continental elite that a new tactic was required are being too optimistic.

We have seen no sign that the enormous bailouts will cease -- except for the standard promises that no, really, this is the last bailout. There have been no serious proposals for a restructuring of the Euro, or a re-evaluation of who should be part of the currency; and the idea that the politicians may be more open to installing more democracy in the European system was blown apart by the furious reaction to the mere suggestion of a Greek referendum on the issue.

Although a few austerity measures have been implemented in one or two select nations, there are no signs that these represent anything more than mere bookkeeping -- there is no ideological debate about the role and size of government here.

Those on the right who believe that it is impossible for the Europhiles to remain in denial any longer are mistaken. The European delusion has been fighting on in spite of failure after failure for decades. Every bump in the road, every obstacle is seen to be solvable by entering deeper into union and spending more money, and this is not about the change any time soon.

Until true conservatives get hold of power across Europe and dismantle the socialist EU themselves, the bailouts will continue, the size of government will increase, and the spending of other people's money by unelected bureaucrats will carry on as usual. "Keep calm and carry on" was once a famous saying in wartime Britain -- it could now be the official motto of the European Union as it calmly carries on into self-destruction and economic oblivion.
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Adam Shaw


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/european_left_and_the_fall_of_the_euro.html#ixzz1dDJimBhx
 
This is good too:

It might be worth everyone's while in these troubled times to set aside an evening in order to carefully read Book VIII of Plato's Republic. The dialogue is nothing less than chilling in its illustration of what happens in a popular government when corrupt politicians inflame the vices of undisciplined citizens in order to destroy the business class and establish a tyranny.

Here's a link to Book VIII [ http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.9.viii.html ]. Plato's objective is to show how highly self-disciplined regimes gradually devolve into more inferior and immoderate governments. Socrates begins the discussion showing how Aristocracies (rule of the wisest) devolve into Timocracies (rule of the military) which then descend into Oligarchies (rule of the wealthy). Oligarchies descend into Democracies (rule of the people) which in turn become Tyrannies.

Pay attention to the final section: how a Democracy becomes a Tyranny. The process starts back when the rulers are Oligarchs. A kind of Government/Business nexus (think Fannie Mae) figures out that certain undisciplined borrowers will be unable to pay back their loans. The lenders acquire the property and recoup their losses with some kind of bailout. Socrates says none of this crazy lending would have happened if the lenders had had to risk their own funds:

"For if it be enacted that voluntary contracts be as a general rule entered into at the proper risk of the contractor, people will be less shameless in their money-dealings in the city, and such ills as we have now described will be less common."

Democracy arises when those thrown out of their homes discover that the rich Oligarchs and their kids are soft and lazy. They rebel and set up popular rule. The people want freedom more than anything else, so they are highly sensitive to any kind of "master" including objective standards of behavior, merit, and manners. Therefore, the people's desire for freedom makes anyone in a position of authority highly suspect.

For example, politicians who urge self-restraint, thrift, and balanced-budgets are punished and cursed while those politicians who promise whatever the people want in "copious draughts" are rewarded. Parents are afraid to discipline their kids, and teachers begin flattering their students (grade inflation, extra credit, etc.). Authority figures are afraid to establish boundaries since this would violate the people's "freedom." Even national boundaries are no longer respected: "resident aliens, and foreigners, are all perfectly equal."

Politicians find it prudent to play the underdog and join with the people in their condemnation of those whose success is a product of frugality and self-discipline. Certain "wicked-wine bearers" promise the voters "the unmixed wine of liberty far beyond due measure" and begin attacking the business class. Businessmen are in turn accused of plotting against the people.

A "special leader" arises who promises even more: cancelling all debts and redistributing the land. The special leader "stirs up faction against the propertied class" but protects himself with a special bodyguard. He starts unnecessary wars to divert attention, becomes unpopular, and then aligns himself more closely with foreigners. To protect himself even further he takes away the people's weapons. The special leader is now a Tyrant.

Plato's Republic is about 2,400 years old but Plato's profound observation of human nature still stands: those who cannot master themselves will cry out for someone to master them. Eric Hoffer offered a similar conclusion much more recently:

"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them."
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Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/11/ows_plato_bets_on_tyranny.html#ixzz1dDTPwhl3
 
No pension? You may still owe $30,000 on one

Pension accounts for state and local government workers are underfunded by $4 trillion, according to one recent analysis. If America's households were to split that tab today, each would have to kick in $34,000.



Don't have that kind of cash on hand? Another option is to chip away at the shortfall over 30 years starting now. That would cost households $1,400 a year beyond what they pay in taxes today.

http://money.msn.com/retirement-investment/article.aspx?post=4983a5f8-bc82-4d24-8aaf-43893d580bee
 
koalabear said:
Stocks tumble on Italian debt woes
Yields on Italian bonds skyrocket as uncertainty surrounding the country's financial situation builds. European markets fall. GM warns of weakness in Europe's auto market.
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Updated: 11/09/2011 03:07 ET
DOW 11,783.67 -386.51
NASDAQ 2,630.45 -97.04
S&P 1,231.28 -44.64
 
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