What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[cebalrai]

hello!?!?! can you say Greece? they are getting their lazy socialist under control with pay cuts!!!

maybe they can save Greece

2nd news flash. if they can not raise the debt ceiling and cut spending, the market will explode

Funny how Obama was to blame for the dip related to Greece, huh?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Funny how Obama was to blame for the dip related to Greece, huh?

why are you blaming the Greece issue on obama?

we have to get obama spending under control so that we don't become the next Greece.

 

[Beco]

In other news, the Dow rose back up above 12,400 today. Lit's righties who hold Obama accountable for its dip were conspicuously silent about it.

Dude, 58% of the country think Obama is doing a shit job on the economy. His approval ratings are way, way down....seriously, you're like, still on his bandwagon?? Gonna vote for him again are ya?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In other news, the Dow rose back up above 12,400 today. Lit's righties who hold Obama accountable for its dip were conspicuously silent about it.

Back in 1987 Reagan created a stealth agency that trades stox when the market is going the wrong way or the President wants to fuck his opponents. Its the oldest con on Wall Street.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

The plan he'd currently negotiating with the Republicans? Hasn't been released yet. But it includes cuts and tax hikes not by raising rates but by closing loopholes and ending breaks for profitable industries (at least that's what's being claimed). Certainly no rate increase is being haggled over at this time, but the sticking point is that - per the nonpartisan debt commission - the Dems want more revenue to pay for Americans demanding more expensive stuff.


I


Spending on what? You look like an idiot when you refuse to define what "spending" actually means. Just spin and hollow rhetoric. Everyone is against "spending". Until you have to talk about what's being bought.

Hasn't been released, but you think you know what's in it...

Hmmmm...

Reminds me of a couple of three recent bills, you have to pass them to know what's in them...

The only revenue raises they've indicated they want are meaningless ticky-tack class warfare red meat taxes, some of them which they, themselves put in to stimulate the economy, but nothing that's going to raise any significant revenue, and they know it; instead of working on the problem, they are merely campaigning, if nothing gets done, they'll gladly accept pain and crises so they have somebody to run against for fear they have nothing to run on.

Greenspan and QE:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43598606

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Really? The 10th most conservative district in America just elected a Democrat after the Republican candidate said he was going to cut Medicare. Sorry, the right dearly loves it's "spending" too.

Yeah, right, you keep on clinging to that special election while ignoring its true circumstances...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Unfortunately I am back to being a productive citizen for the nonce so we'll have to discuss this on le weekend.

Wünderbar...





My condolences on the productivity...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Merc, call your office:

Fed's Massive Stimulus Had Little Impact: Greenspan

The Federal Reserve's massive stimulus program had little impact on the U.S. economy besides weakening the dollar and helping U.S. exports, Federal Reserve Governor Alan Greenspan told CNBC Thursday.

In a blunt critique of his successor, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, Greenspan said the $2 trillion in quantative easing over the past two years had done little to loosen credit and boost the economy.

"There is no evidence that huge inflow of money into the system basically worked," Greenspan said in a live interview.

"It obviously had some effect on the exchange rate and the exchange rate was a critical issue in export expansion," he said. "Aside from that, I am ill-aware of anything that really worked. Not only QE2 but QE1."

Greenspan’s comments came as the Fed ended the second installment of its bond-buying program, known as QE2, after spending $600 billion. There were no hints of any more monetary easing—or QE3—to come.

Greenspan said he "would be surprised if there was a QE3" because it would "continue erosion of the dollar."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43598606

Isn't that like, uh, inflation; less purchasing power?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

In other news, the Dow rose back up above 12,400 today. Lit's righties who hold Obama accountable for its dip were conspicuously silent about it.

OH BOY!

WE'VE TURNED THE CORNER!

ALL THE ECONOMIC INDICATORS ARE POINTING UP!

Just exactly as posited in the first post on 9-17-09, THANK YOU President OBAMA!!!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

When it goes down, it means nothing; blame Greece, for example...

When it goes up, then "where's the kudos on a job well done!"



When a lot of us were younger, Greece could not send ripples through the US economy.

Then we all became Keynesians and linked our currencies to each other instead of commodities so that world-wide, governments could defraud us and go on spending sprees...

 

[RightField]

WOLF: Obamanomics is shovel-ready
The failure of Keynesian economics is no laughing matter, Mr. President

By Dr. Milton R. Wolf
The Washington Times
7:25 p.m., Tuesday, June 28, 2011

In 1932, President Hoover received a letter from a man in Illinois that read simply, "Vote for Roosevelt and make it unanimous." Based on its recent floundering, it seems even the White House recognizes that Obamanomics has been a disaster. It's nearly unanimous now.

When President Reagan entered office, America faced a deep recession with double-digit unemployment and inflation, plus dishearteningly long gas lines. Rather than wasting time blaming his predecessor, the Gipper went right to work unveiling Reaganomics - an embrace of the free market - which included four simple principles: (1) lower tax burden, (2) lower government spending, (3) lower regulatory burden, and (4) a strong dollar monetary policy.

The top income tax rate was reduced from a stifling 70 percent to a low of 28 percent. Total federal spending was reduced from 23.5 percent of gross domestic product to 21.2 percent. Deregulation ended disastrous price controls and curtailed the government's micromanaging of private businesses. Disciplined money supply strengthened the dollar.

As Peter Ferrara, policy adviser to Reagan, has described, the results were beyond spectacular. Reaganomics unleashed an explosive growth of wealth and prosperity, the largest in the history of humankind. Some 20 million jobs were created. Unemployment dropped to 5.3 percent. The gross domestic product growth rate hit a high of 6.8 percent, and the total economy grew by nearly a third. Inflation dropped to 3.2 percent. Even the oil shortage was solved almost overnight.

Barack Obama is no Ronald Reagan.

President Obama entered office peddling the false hope that government can "spread the wealth." This is as foolish as bucketing water from one end of a swimming pool to the other. At best you achieve nothing; in reality, the spilled water along the way leaves everybody worse off.

Obamanomics favors top-down compulsory cooperation over voluntary. It is the anti-Reaganomics. Mr. Obama has done the following: (1) raised taxes, (2) unleashed a wild orgy of spending, including his disastrous so-called "stimulus," (3) dramatically increased regulations and even nationalized industries and businesses, and (4) printed money out of "quantitative easing" thin air.

The results were predictable. Since the Obama stimulus - a collection of "shovel-ready" projects promised to save the economy - was signed into law, America has lost 1.9 million jobs and unemployment has surpassed 9 percent. GDP growth remains anemic. Consumer confidence has tumbled. Gas prices were at $1.81 per gallon before Mr. Obama put his "boot on the neck" of suppliers, and now it's more than doubled, to $3.81. We burn our food supply in our gas tanks, and grocery prices have skyrocketed - some staples by as much as 40 percent. Since the president signed his mortgage rescue plan, Americans have seen 3.82 million foreclosures. Most disturbingly, the majority of Americans are receiving some type of welfare.

Want to better understand Obamanomics? Look no further than "cash for clunkers," Mr. Obama's laughably misguided idea to use American's wealth to, quite literally, destroy American's wealth, to use taxpayers' money to destroy taxpayers' working automobiles. Despite the propaganda, these weren't "clunkers" at all. I continue proudly to drive one myself. Edmonds.com estimated the cost per new car sold at $24,000. Some estimates are much higher. A year later, auto sales were at their worst in 27 years and Americans - low-income Americans in particular - are suffering a government-created shortage of low-priced cars. Still the Democrats claim that the clunkers program "has been successful beyond our wildest dreams." The truth is, it was motivated by environmentalism, not economics. It reflects Mr. Obama's arrogant belief that he knows better than you what type of car you should drive. Controlling your behavior is one wild dream, indeed.

Mr. Obama, abandoning any pretense of economic literacy, has placed the blame for unemployment squarely on America's archenemy: the ATM. The jobless rate remains high, according to the president, because - it's hard to make this stuff up - "when you go to a bank you use the ATM, you don't go to a bank teller." Other Democrats share his ignorance. Recently, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. claimed that Apple's iPad was "probably responsible for eliminating thousands of American jobs." Mr. Jackson, an iPad owner himself, adds hypoc-risy to ignorance.

Mr. Obama, meet Ned Ludd. In the early 1800s, the Luddites - named for Ned Ludd, an alias used to conceal their leaders' true identities - sabotaged factories for fear of new technology. Their mistake was a belief that jobs themselves are prosperity when, in fact, it's the products and services of those jobs that create prosperity. The government could hire people to dig holes and other people to fill them back in, but America would be poorer for the wasted effort. In reality, new technologies, from the advent of the wheel to today's nanotechnology - including the ATM and the iPad - increase efficiency, which frees people for more important endeavors. This is the precise mechanism that improves mankind's standard of living.

And now, as Obamanomics continues to crumble, the president has made a stunning admission: " 'Shovel-ready' was not as shovel-ready as we expected." The line drew laughter from his friendly audience. This is not the first time his own supporters have been caught laughing at Obamanomics. Last week - before the Democratic National Committee, no less - the president made this wild claim: "Over the last 15 months, we've created over 2.1 million private-sector jobs." That despite the record showing America has 1.9 million fewer jobs today than before his "stimulus." According to the White House's own transcript, what followed next was "laughter" (until later, that is, when Orwellian Ministry of Truth officials in the administration scrubbed the record and changed the transcript to read "applause").

Americans are suffering, Mr. President, and it's no laughing matter. It's time to put Obamanomics where it belongs: on the trash heap of history. Got a shovel?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

If the goal is to give them jobs, why not replace the shovels with spoons?
Keynes
__________________
The European Union is unwinding for two very simple reasons. First, it is not a constitutional state, but a loose conglomeration of nations run by elites who are not responsible to the people. For decades the undemocratic nature of rule from Brussels was masked by politically correct edicts on everything from global warming to anti-Americanism. But as the money runs out, the elites’ fraud becomes impossible to hide.

Second, Mediterranean countries were allowed to cook their books in such a way that northwestern European money would continue to be loaned to the siesta cultures that had not produced goods and services to justify the influx of foreign capital and the attendant lifestyle it ensured. Now we are well past any chance that German money can be paid back; the only mystery is over the conditions of the default — whether slow and incremental, or sudden and cataclysmic — and whether it will leave in its wake a downsized EU or no EU at all.

In other words, the notion that platitudinous elites could, by their proclaimed virtue, establish a constitutional union without real democratic values proved unrealizable. More important still, socialism came to an end with fiscal insolvency. This happened, of course, most dramatically in southern Europe, where climate and culture conspired to hasten its demise; but northern Europeans now realize that they too have a rendezvous with a Greek-like reckoning unless they increase worker productivity, curb government, prune the power of public-employee unions, bring market-based incentives back into the workplace, reestablish national sovereignty, raise the retirement age, and address the declining demography that is so often the handmaiden of socialism. In short, EU elites have done what the half-century-long threat of Red Army tanks and missiles never could: destabilize Europe to the point of anarchy.
Victor Davis Hanson

 

[RightField]

If the goal is to give them jobs, why not replace the shovels with spoons?
Keynes
__________________
The European Union is unwinding for two very simple reasons. First, it is not a constitutional state, but a loose conglomeration of nations run by elites who are not responsible to the people. For decades the undemocratic nature of rule from Brussels was masked by politically correct edicts on everything from global warming to anti-Americanism. But as the money runs out, the elites’ fraud becomes impossible to hide.

Second, Mediterranean countries were allowed to cook their books in such a way that northwestern European money would continue to be loaned to the siesta cultures that had not produced goods and services to justify the influx of foreign capital and the attendant lifestyle it ensured. Now we are well past any chance that German money can be paid back; the only mystery is over the conditions of the default — whether slow and incremental, or sudden and cataclysmic — and whether it will leave in its wake a downsized EU or no EU at all.

In other words, the notion that platitudinous elites could, by their proclaimed virtue, establish a constitutional union without real democratic values proved unrealizable. More important still, socialism came to an end with fiscal insolvency. This happened, of course, most dramatically in southern Europe, where climate and culture conspired to hasten its demise; but northern Europeans now realize that they too have a rendezvous with a Greek-like reckoning unless they increase worker productivity, curb government, prune the power of public-employee unions, bring market-based incentives back into the workplace, reestablish national sovereignty, raise the retirement age, and address the declining demography that is so often the handmaiden of socialism. In short, EU elites have done what the half-century-long threat of Red Army tanks and missiles never could: destabilize Europe to the point of anarchy.
Victor Davis Hanson

That is consistent with Obamanomics. Good idea. You'd make a good liberal. lol.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

That is consistent with Obamanomics. Good idea. You'd make a good liberal. lol.

That's from a story about his days in India.




Now, I'm going to post the answer to the thread I am about to begin (for the time stamp).

Mum's the word.

"Because he does not want the wavering Democrat Senators to face their constituency as they did in the Health Care debate."

Thank you.

 

[RightField]

__________________
The European Union is unwinding for two very simple reasons. First, it is not a constitutional state, but a loose conglomeration of nations run by elites who are not responsible to the people. For decades the undemocratic nature of rule from Brussels was masked by politically correct edicts on everything from global warming to anti-Americanism. But as the money runs out, the elites’ fraud becomes impossible to hide.

Second, Mediterranean countries were allowed to cook their books in such a way that northwestern European money would continue to be loaned to the siesta cultures that had not produced goods and services to justify the influx of foreign capital and the attendant lifestyle it ensured. Now we are well past any chance that German money can be paid back; the only mystery is over the conditions of the default — whether slow and incremental, or sudden and cataclysmic — and whether it will leave in its wake a downsized EU or no EU at all.

In other words, the notion that platitudinous elites could, by their proclaimed virtue, establish a constitutional union without real democratic values proved unrealizable. More important still, socialism came to an end with fiscal insolvency. This happened, of course, most dramatically in southern Europe, where climate and culture conspired to hasten its demise; but northern Europeans now realize that they too have a rendezvous with a Greek-like reckoning unless they increase worker productivity, curb government, prune the power of public-employee unions, bring market-based incentives back into the workplace, reestablish national sovereignty, raise the retirement age, and address the declining demography that is so often the handmaiden of socialism. In short, EU elites have done what the half-century-long threat of Red Army tanks and missiles never could: destabilize Europe to the point of anarchy.
Victor Davis Hanson

We're in a similar spending mode and it we don't stop it soon, we're going to end up in the same boat. The liberals in Congress and the White House don't seem to recognize this and have poisoned the debt discussions by insisting that they need new revenue (increase taxes) as part of the deal when excessive spending is the problem. The republicans want taxes kept low (and made lower) and government made smaller so that we have more capital, liquidity, less burden and stability to compete in the world and start to bring back jobs. The Democrats are talking positively about jobs on one side of their mouth and doing everything the can to sabotage the job-making initiatives with the other side.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The real difference tween Reagan and Obama is this: When Reagan took office America was in the midst of a computer revolution that was driving plenty of other new technologies.

In every financial recession two processes normally occur: There's an increase in productivity with a collateral decrease in employment, followed by a new techology that increases productivity and employment.

Nothing comparable is happening today.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Quit dissing the GREEN revolution Racist!

 

[RightField]

The real difference tween Reagan and Obama is this: When Reagan took office America was in the midst of a computer revolution that was driving plenty of other new technologies.

In every financial recession two processes normally occur: There's an increase in productivity with a collateral decrease in employment, followed by a new techology that increases productivity and employment.

Nothing comparable is happening today.

Yeah, because the democrats are punishing anyone that shows any initiative and creativity with byzantine laws that make it difficult to start and run a business....and then if you get through all that, if you're successful, you're vilified and they promise to take it all away in the name of "spreading the wealth" and paying for their massive current spending (want to prop up the UAW again with $14B to keep them afloat)...(want to build a new aircraft plant in South Carolina)...WTF?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

We're in a similar spending mode and it we don't stop it soon, we're going to end up in the same boat. The liberals in Congress and the White House don't seem to recognize this and have poisoned the debt discussions by insisting that they need new revenue (increase taxes) as part of the deal when excessive spending is the problem. The republicans want taxes kept low (and made lower) and government made smaller so that we have more capital, liquidity, less burden and stability to compete in the world and start to bring back jobs. The Democrats are talking positively about jobs on one side of their mouth and doing everything the can to sabotage the job-making initiatives with the other side.

Here in the United States, we await the imposition of Obamacare, despite the fact that the public does not want it, the nation cannot afford it, politicians regret it, and companies seek exemption from it. Our current pace of $1.6 trillion annual deficits, for all the talk of Keynesian gymnastics, is unsustainable — and even acknowledged as such by those who are most responsible for the latest round of fiscal irresponsibility. As we near 50 million Americans on food stamps, another year of 9-plus percent unemployment, and the third $1 trillion–plus budget deficit, even statists are beginning to see that statism does not work — a fact brought home not just by the disaster in Greece, but also by the growing divide between a successful red-state paradigm and California-like blue-state doldrums. What saves the United States for now is only the fact that, unlike California, it can print money — plus the fact that there is no red-state version of America to flee to.

On the immigration front, there will still be some quibbling, but the liberal argument for open borders has been lost, both here and in Europe. The United States simply cannot afford any longer the $50 billion that flows to Latin America each year in remittances, coupled with multibillion-dollar costs for providing social services to seek parity for illegal aliens, in addition to vast new outlays in education and criminal justice. California elites swear that a multimillion-person community of illegal aliens has nothing to do with our near-bottom ranking in public-school math and science scores, but privately even the most die-hard unionist teachers confess that it does. When Los Angeles has more resident Mexican nationals than do most cities in Mexico, and when the liberal paradigm of the salad bowl in lieu of the melting pot is into its fifth decade, then it is logical, not aberrant, that tens of thousands in the Rose Bowl would not merely cheer a Mexican soccer team over a home-team American one (understandable, though regrettable, garden-variety ethnic chauvinism), but trump that by booing even the mention of the United States.

Either federal law will be enforced and immigration will return to an orderly, legal process — where merit, education, and skill sets are used as litmus tests for would-be immigrants without regard to ethnic or racial background — or else Arizona, New Mexico, and California will soon become a dysfunctional region, where one class flees and quite another enters, and soon even illegal aliens seek a new, more northern border to cross. Open borders, non-assimilation, ethnic separatism, and tribalism lead to the Balkans or Rwanda — not, as envisioned, to a society patterned after the boutique diversity of the faculty lounge.

The classically tragic notion that deterrence — based on military preparation, balance of power, and eternal vigilance — alone prevents wars is returning, as the postmodern idea that international good will and multilateral policing can ensure world peace has almost sputtered to an end. Colonel Qaddafi is not impressed by an indictment from The Hague, and so far he is not backing down in the face of the combined air power of France and Britain. Qaddafi fears no new Napoleon or second Wellington, and he will leave only if the United States, for either good or bad reasons, decides to lend Europe the military wherewithal to end the Libyan regime.

In the last hundred days, the world has seen not only how weak and divided are the European members of NATO, but also how the once-celebrated European notion of “soft power” means very little in the world of perpetually savage nations. What stops China from carving out a new co-prosperity sphere in Asian waters, Russia from reconstituting a hegemony over the former Soviet republics, Turkey from ending the notion that the Aegean is a Hellenic lake, a new alliance of radical Arab states from attacking Israel, a soon-to-be-nuclear Iran from threatening its Jewish and Arab rivals, and North Korea from invading the south is only lingering worries over a U.S. military response or an American-led alliance of resistance — not international sanctions or condemnation, a U.N. decree, an Arab League resolution, an International Criminal Court writ, an IMF or World Bank reprimand, a lecture from an EU grandee, or the EU rapid response force.

Back home, we have suffered through decades of declining test scores and rising teachers’ salaries, and we now have a trillion dollars in college loan debt, more remediation for incoming college freshmen, weaker skills apparent in graduating college seniors, an omnipresent -studies curriculum, and a new national dialogue over whether college is even worth it — not just in terms of whether college degrees raise salaries sufficiently to justify huge loans, but whether the new therapeutic race, class, and gender curriculum is antithetical to classical liberal arts with their emphasis on reading, written expression, math, and science.

Modern university education has achieved the dubious result of turning out a self-described sensitive, caring mind that has never been more ignorant of the past and the present. The modern therapeutic university has managed all at once, with its various “centers,” reduced teaching loads, empty faculty research, and legions of new administrators, to put tuition costs beyond the reach of most Americans, to spark an entire new competing industry of no-frills, private, for-profit certificate-granting trade schools, and to end the old idea that a student’s B.A. degree was synonymous with competency or a faculty member’s Ph.D. with wisdom.

We live in an age in which advocates do not believe in their own advocacy: A “planet is doomed” Al Gore refuses to fly economy; a statist John Kerry won’t pay taxes on his yacht unless he is caught; an anti-war Barack Obama won’t honor the War Powers Act he once deified; and the liberal congressional and media establishment will not put their children in the D.C. schools that are the reification of their own ideology.

In short, the generation that came of age in the 1960s succeeded in bringing to life the Frankenstein’s monster it designed in its own image — but suddenly it seems terrified of the very thing it created.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/270892

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Yeah, because the democrats are punishing anyone that shows any initiative and creativity with byzantine laws that make it difficult to start and run a business....and then if you get through all that, if you're successful, you're vilified and they promise to take it all away in the name of "spreading the wealth" and paying for their massive current spending (want to prop up the UAW again with $14B to keep them afloat)...(want to build a new aircraft plant in South Carolina)...WTF?

Bingo!

*spit*


But let's not hold the Republicans blameless shall we, too many firespins out there want to be more like Democrats in order not to be radical and to win votes...

Consistent philosophy is for losers in their eyes.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Funny how Obama was to blame for the dip related to Greece, huh?

help me understand how you can blame obama for Greece?

now, obama and his irresponsible spending and social programs are putting us in direr straights and we could be the next Greece

 

[NeverEndingMe]

The real difference tween Reagan and Obama is this: When Reagan took office America was in the midst of a computer revolution that was driving plenty of other new technologies.

In every financial recession two processes normally occur: There's an increase in productivity with a collateral decrease in employment, followed by a new techology that increases productivity and employment.

Nothing comparable is happening today.

Reagan was pro business. obama is anti business.

there is nothing stimulating the economy or giving people hope. then with obama and his dumb-ass tv "addresses" .... no wonder people don't want to invest or hire more people.

obama was acting like a frustrated 3 year old the other day... hence the "I think obama was a dick"

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Yeah, because the democrats are punishing anyone that shows any initiative and creativity with byzantine laws that make it difficult to start and run a business....and then if you get through all that, if you're successful, you're vilified and they promise to take it all away in the name of "spreading the wealth" and paying for their massive current spending (want to prop up the UAW again with $14B to keep them afloat)...(want to build a new aircraft plant in South Carolina)...WTF?

someone said that obama is gonig after Boeing for moving some or all 787 production to SC?

 

[mercury14]

OH BOY!

WE'VE TURNED THE CORNER!

ALL THE ECONOMIC INDICATORS ARE POINTING UP!

Just exactly as posited in the first post on 9-17-09, THANK YOU President OBAMA!!!

The Dow is up 165 points, flirting with 12,600 and we're finishing off the best week in the last 51 weeks. Manufacturing jumped more than expected. How come this thread suffers conservative spam whenever the Dow dips, since that's a sign of Obama sucking - but when it's going up there's just dead silence? I mean, a week like this is huge news compared to the mini-dips conservatives gloat about. Where are you guys?


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-...&ccode=&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

 

[mercury14]

If the goal is to give them jobs, why not replace the shovels with spoons?
Keynes

The Bush tax cut was a Keynsian approach. Why aren't you bitching about that? Seems you're cherry picking again and parroting conservative blab instead of trying to think.