What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[firespin]

That timeline makes note of the oil spill being addressed on the 23, 25, and 26.

How are you not seeing that?

Having trouble reading?

"Storms delay response efforts. An April 25 Associated Press article reported, "Stormy weather delayed weekend efforts to mop up leaking oil from a damaged well after the explosion and sinking of a massive rig off Louisiana's Gulf Coast that left 11 workers missing and presumed dead." AP further reported:
The bad weather began rolling in Friday as strong winds, clouds and rain interrupted efforts to contain the spill. Coast Guard Petty Officer John Edwards said he was uncertain when weather conditions would improve enough for cleanup to resume. So far, he said, crews have retrieved about 1,052 barrels of oily water.

Oil recovery and cleanup were to resume after adverse weather passed. "

Similar comments apply to the 23rd...do you see anyplace where they are actually doing anything about the oil? More like they are getting ready to do something.

But by the 26th, they had collected just over 1000 barrels* of oily water. If Bush's team had done that, would you be celebrating?

* - on the 26th, they actually cite a number of gallons which is less than 1000 barrels, but since they said more than 1000 barrels earlier, we'll overlook that.

 

[mercury14]

Having trouble reading?

"Storms delay response efforts. An April 25 Associated Press article reported, "Stormy weather delayed weekend efforts to mop up leaking oil from a damaged well after the explosion and sinking of a massive rig off Louisiana's Gulf Coast that left 11 workers missing and presumed dead." AP further reported:
The bad weather began rolling in Friday as strong winds, clouds and rain interrupted efforts to contain the spill. Coast Guard Petty Officer John Edwards said he was uncertain when weather conditions would improve enough for cleanup to resume. So far, he said, crews have retrieved about 1,052 barrels of oily water.

Oil recovery and cleanup were to resume after adverse weather passed. "

Similar comments apply to the 23rd...do you see anyplace where they are actually doing anything about the oil? More like they are getting ready to do something.

But by the 26th, they had collected just over 1000 barrels* of oily water. If Bush's team had done that, would you be celebrating?

* - on the 26th, they actually cite a number of gallons which is less than 1000 barrels, but since they said more than 1000 barrels earlier, we'll overlook that.

Okay, so you admit that on the 25th there was CG cleanup going on. Or rather they were doing their best given the conditions? The explosion happened at 10 PM on the 20th, meaning nothing could reasonably even be attempted until the 21st...

Not to mention this:

April 23: Coast Guard "focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water."

Do you want to retract your wild and baseless claim that "nothing was done to address the spill for the first week"?

 

[firespin]

Because Bizzy needed some schooling as to what verity means instead of hyperbole.

This oil spill has zilch to do with Katrina, or any comparison of the response times of presiding disaster presidents thereof. Let's just cut the meme-soundbite bullshit jerking off here. It's overdone.

And nothing I could cut and paste in the name of cuteness will ever come close to your beauty and diva magnificence when you do your graph/stat/chart/diagram vogue dance down the runways here in explanation of how the world works according to you, Naomi.

It's ok to say you didn't actually read it. In your zeal to post something, I suppose content comprehension took a backseat. It's all good.

 

[mercury14]

It's ok to say you didn't actually read it. In your zeal to post something, I suppose content comprehension took a backseat. It's all good.

Not sure how you get off taking jabs at people for not reading... when you post that nothing happened for the first week and then counter your own point by saying that cleanup was happening on the 25th.

And of course there's the 23rd too.

Tell me how you didn't just argue against yourself.

 

[firespin]

Okay, so you admit that on the 25th there was CG cleanup going on. Or rather they were doing their best given the conditions? The explosion happened at 10 PM on the 20th, meaning nothing could reasonably even be attempted until the 21st...

Not to mention this:

April 23: Coast Guard "focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water."

Do you want to retract your wild and baseless claim that "nothing was done to address the spill for the first week"?

Mr. Wizard,

I hate to break it to you, but if you're leaking at least 1,000 barrels of oil / day, and probably much more than that, then a) not stopping the leak, and b) recovering 1000 barrels of oily water (not 1000 barrels of oil) is, I submit, doing essentially nothing to address the spill.

I'm not saying I could have done any better, but the point is, not much was done to address the spill. To suggest otherwise is to ignore what's happening at the moment. The oil washing ashore was released during the first week.

 

[mercury14]

Mr. Wizard,

I hate to break it to you, but if you're leaking at least 1,000 barrels of oil / day, and probably much more than that, then a) not stopping the leak, and b) recovering 1000 barrels of oily water (not 1000 barrels of oil) is, I submit, doing essentially nothing to address the spill.

I'm not saying I could have done any better, but the point is, not much was done to address the spill. To suggest otherwise is to ignore what's happening at the moment. The oil washing ashore was released during the first week.

Don't forget controlled burning.

What else should the federal government have done? What options did they have to plug the leak that they chose not to access?

 

[firespin]

Don't forget controlled burning.

Tell us when that started, please.

What else should the federal government have done? What options did they have to plug the leak that they chose not to access?

Read on:

'BP officials said they did everything possible, and a review of the response suggests it may be too simplistic to place all the blame on the oil company. The federal government also had opportunities to move more quickly, but did not do so while it waited for a resolution to the spreading spill from BP, which was leasing the drilling rig that exploded in flames on April 20 and sank two days later. Eleven workers are missing and presumed dead.

The Department of Homeland Security waited until Thursday to declare that the incident was “a spill of national significance,” and then set up a second command center in Mobile. The actions came only after the estimate of the size of the spill was increased fivefold to 5,000 barrels a day.

The delay meant that the Homeland Security Department waited until late this week to formally request a more robust response from the Department of Defense, with Ms. Napolitano acknowledging even as late as Thursday afternoon that she did not know if the Defense Department even had equipment that might be helpful.

By Friday afternoon, she said, the Defense Department had agreed to send two large military transport planes to spray chemicals that can disperse the oil while it is still in the Gulf.

Officials initially seemed to underestimate the threat of a leak, just as BP did last year when it told the government such an event was highly unlikely. Rear Adm. Mary E. Landry, the chief Coast Guard official in charge of the response, said on April 22, after the rig sank, that the oil that was on the surface appeared to be merely residual oil from the fire, though she said it was unclear what was going on underwater. The day after, officials said that it appeared the well’s blowout preventer had kicked in and that there did not seem to be any oil leaking from the well, though they cautioned it was not a guarantee. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/us/01gulf.html

 

[firespin]

Not sure how you get off taking jabs at people for not reading... when you post that nothing happened for the first week and then counter your own point by saying that cleanup was happening on the 25th.

And of course there's the 23rd too.

Tell me how you didn't just argue against yourself.

And before this gets lost in the chaff...the real point was, that in the zeal to try to exonerate the adminstration, backers are all to willing to accept purported adulatory timelines at face value, without trying to ascertain whether what happened actually a) was effective (well, not so much), or b) were the best that could be done (again, not so much).

 

[mercury14]

Read on:

'BP officials said they did everything possible, and a review of the response suggests it may be too simplistic to place all the blame on the oil company. The federal government also had opportunities to move more quickly, but did not do so while it waited for a resolution to the spreading spill from BP, which was leasing the drilling rig that exploded in flames on April 20 and sank two days later. Eleven workers are missing and presumed dead.

The Department of Homeland Security waited until Thursday to declare that the incident was “a spill of national significance,” and then set up a second command center in Mobile. The actions came only after the estimate of the size of the spill was increased fivefold to 5,000 barrels a day.

The delay meant that the Homeland Security Department waited until late this week to formally request a more robust response from the Department of Defense, with Ms. Napolitano acknowledging even as late as Thursday afternoon that she did not know if the Defense Department even had equipment that might be helpful.

By Friday afternoon, she said, the Defense Department had agreed to send two large military transport planes to spray chemicals that can disperse the oil while it is still in the Gulf.

Officials initially seemed to underestimate the threat of a leak, just as BP did last year when it told the government such an event was highly unlikely. Rear Adm. Mary E. Landry, the chief Coast Guard official in charge of the response, said on April 22, after the rig sank, that the oil that was on the surface appeared to be merely residual oil from the fire, though she said it was unclear what was going on underwater. The day after, officials said that it appeared the well’s blowout preventer had kicked in and that there did not seem to be any oil leaking from the well, though they cautioned it was not a guarantee. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/us/01gulf.html

Basically it was the government'd fault for giving BP any credit when they said the leak was of a particular size and that they'd be able to contain it. But since the government doesn't have any way of knowing any better what do you think they realistically could have done differently? Should they just assume that any leak is going to be 5 times larger than an oil company says?

That article doesn't say the government could have actually done anything different from a practical perspective. They could have "declared it a significant spill a couple days earlier", but there's no technology that the US government posesses that would have made much of a difference.

So I ask you again, what could the federal government have done that they didn't do?

 

[firespin]

Basically it was the government'd fault for giving BP any credit when they said the leak was of a particular size and that they'd be able to contain it. But since the government doesn't have any way of knowing any better what do you think they realistically could have done differently? Should they just assume that any leak is going to be 5 times larger than an oil company says?

That article doesn't say the government could have actually done anything different from a practical perspective. They could have "declared it a significant spill a couple days earlier", but there's no technology that the US government posesses that would have made much of a difference.

So I ask you again, what could the federal government have done that they didn't do?

I think you're doing the blinders thing here. The article you quote cites several delays and approaches that could have been used. Plus the government did make an independent assessment using its own equipment, and got it wrong.

Again, it's a big problem and will be hard to solve. However, so was Katrina. In that case, the Bush administration was blamed for a variety of things that might or might not have made a difference, some of which were not their responsibility (but belonged to the state or city). This situation has the same potential to, well, smear the current administration in just the same way: the perception that they didn't do everything they could to address a problem, whether or not it could be effectively addressed at all.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It's ok to say you didn't actually read it. In your zeal to post something, I suppose content comprehension took a backseat. It's all good.

It's ok to say that you don't have an answer for everything in the universe, like you usually do by way of your charts/graphs/stats/diagrams, and that you can't refute the point of the article that this is hardly Obama's "Katrina" by fiat or default of faulty response time or lack of caring or lack of assessment of the situation from its start, of which it clearly isn't.

I suppose context comprehension took a vacation in your two-seater, but don't worry, you'll get your spin swagger back when Obama gets his next "Katrina," or whenever your party can decide on which "Katrina" to label him with.

I think you're doing the blinders thing here. The article you quote cites several delays and approaches that could have been used. Plus the government did make an independent assessment using its own equipment, and got it wrong.

Again, it's a big problem and will be hard to solve. However, so was Katrina. In that case, the Bush administration was blamed for a variety of things that might or might not have made a difference, some of which were not their responsibility (but belonged to the state or city). This situation has the same potential to, well, smear the current administration in just the same way: the perception that they didn't do everything they could to address a problem, whether or not it could be effectively addressed at all.

Nice middle-of-the-turn you made there, after all that needless disassembling and reshuffling of numbers and and words and letters to make your ad-hoc stats smell pretty. I'll give you a beer for that one, cuz at least you're not like your friend Bizzybooby who'll just say anything against Obama as long as the meme and soundbite sounds right. However, you did jump right in and offer to buddy him without bothering to see if he could hit the volleyball back over the net. Not good decision making, especially when you didn't "win" here, but only fell back on the broad, convenient umbrella of "Well, this can and could be potentially bad for anybody at anytime with any response and action. Who's to say what would've happened if blah blah blah would've been done earlier or later...might've maybe probably coulda woulda shoulda..."

Point before it gets lost in your segued spin cycle to hit one for your team: This is not Obama's "Katrina."

 

[firespin]

This is not Obama's "Katrina."

Of course not. Just because it's a major natural disaster affecting the Mississippi delta requiring coordination of various agencies and organizations for containment and disaster relief, including an apparently delayed and clueless response by DHS, I can't see any reason why people would consider it at all similar to Katrina.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Of course not. Just because it's a major natural disaster affecting the Mississippi delta requiring coordination of various agencies and organizations for containment and disaster relief, including an apparently delayed and clueless response by DHS, I can't see any reason why people would consider it at all similar to Katrina.

Right, because an oil rig explosion is exactly the same as a hurricane that was not a surprise to anyone.

How long before Katrina made landfall did we know that it was one of the strongest storms to hit the gulf coast in years? About 48 hours prior to it making landfall the White House received several warnings, including prescient predictions of levee failures, massive flooding, and major losses of life and property. A computer slide presentation by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, prepared for a 9 a.m. meeting on Aug. 27, two days before Katrina made landfall, compared Katrina's likely impact to that of "Hurricane Pam," a fictional Category 3 storm used in a series of FEMA disaster-preparedness exercises simulating the effects of a major hurricane striking New Orleans. But Katrina, the report warned, could be worse.

Katrina's Category 4 storm surge "could greatly overtop levees and protective systems" and destroy nearly 90 percent of city structures, the FEMA report said. It further predicted "incredible search and rescue needs (60,000-plus)" and the displacement of more than a million residents.

How much warning did anyone have that that oil rig was going to explode and sink? None, zero..

I know you're all about the false equivalencies, but even you have to see exactly how fucking stupid your comparison is here.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Of course not. Just because it's a major natural (those "natural forming" oil rigs sure are hard to control) disaster affecting the Mississippi delta requiring coordination of various agencies and organizations for containment and disaster relief, including an apparently delayed (because BP said it had shit on lock and then WHOOOPS) and prompt response by DHS (after giving berth to BP's attempted pride-saving fuck-up), I can't see any reason why people would consider it at all similar to Katrina.

Yeah, I feel ya, brother. I mean, if only Cobra Commander hadn't been tampering with the Weather Dominator way back in 2005 to fuck around with the earth's atmosphere and create hurricanes the way BP's faulty un-valved drilling equipment fucked up and spurted oil from the depths of the plumbed ocean floor like Peter North's jizzing cock between Gianna Michaels' tits, who knows what further man-made disasters we could've avoided, eh?

Damn, Mother Nature's a bitch, ain't she? It's all her fault that she put that oil deposit there in that spot for us to discover, drill and exploit for our own selfish environmental-destroying endeavors. What the fuck, is this Avatar or something?

 

[firespin]

How much warning did anyone have that that oil rig was going to explode and sink? None, zero..

I know you're all about the false equivalencies, but even you have to see exactly how fucking stupid your comparison is here.

Well, I already said that any similarity is just a coincidence...but:

- didn't we have more than ten days notice about the oil slick in the gulf? That's the problem, now that the explosion is in the past.

- why is the administration (and it's message board flunkies) in full damage control mode, if there's nothing to see here?

 

[cebalrai]

Plus the government did make an independent assessment using its own equipment, and got it wrong.

Link?

 

[cebalrai]

We should just let Haiti annex Louisiana at this point.

 

[cebalrai]

DOW down another 140 as I type...

Just wanted to bump Frisco's idiotic post from a couple months ago... where he's cheering for the US economy to fail.

(since cheering about that day's stock market dip, the Dow has put on over 1000 points)

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

And before this gets lost in the chaff...the real point was, that in the zeal to try to exonerate the adminstration, backers are all to willing to accept purported adulatory timelines at face value, without trying to ascertain whether what happened actually a) was effective (well, not so much), or b) were the best that could be done (again, not so much).

*snicker*





But RON! it's OUR White House now...

 

[cebalrai]

(from 2/24/10)

VASTLY improved aint putting food on the table or paying the rent and I hate to tell you, but jobs losses aren't stopping anytime soon...

If you call that bashing, so be it.

Doh, the job losses stopped already.

 

[firespin]

Link?

Have you not been paying attention?

" HOUSTON -(Dow Jones)- The U.S. Coast Guard said Friday that oil appears to have stopped seeping from a drill site in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico's seabed after a Transocean Ltd. (RIG: 72.32, -6.36, -8.08%) drilling platform caught fire and sank, although it will continue to scour the waters for any signs of a major spill.

The Coast Guard is inspecting underwater installations at the drill site via remotely operated vehicles, and "it appeared on the cameras that the well stopped leaking," said Coast Guard spokeswoman Ashley Butler. "

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/commodities/th-update-coast-guard-oil-leaking-gulf/

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Just wanted to bump Frisco's idiotic post from a couple months ago... where he's cheering for the US economy to fail.

(since cheering about that day's stock market dip, the Dow has put on over 1000 points)

So, who's controlling the alt today?



Barack Obama wants the US economy to fail. He wants transformational change, the redistribution of wealth and socialization of industry be it through nationalization or Fascist control...

I'm just observing reality.

“And guess what this liberal will be all about? This liberal will be all about socializing, uh, uh… would be about basically about taking over the government running all of your companies.”
Maxine Waters

Generally speaking we get the joke. We know that the free market is nonsense. We know that the whole point is to game the system, to beat the market, or at least find someone who will pay you a lot of money because they're convinced that there is a free lunch. We know this is largely about power, that it's an adults only, no limit game. We kind of agree with Mao that political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun. And we get it that if you want a friend, you should get a dog.
Ron Bloom
Car Czar

"Too often, much of late, the last couple three years, the mal-distribution of income in American is gone up way too much, the wealthy are getting way, way too wealthy and the middle income class is left behind," he said. "Wages have not kept up with increased income of the highest income in America. This legislation will have the effect of addressing that mal-distribution of income in America."
Max Baucus

"I pray God when the Democrats take back control we don't make the kind of naked power grab you are doing."
...
"You know we're going to control the insurance companies."
Joe Biden

__________________
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."
Ayn Rand

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Doh, the job losses stopped already.

No they haven't.

They've eased up, but we are still shedding jobs, it's just that every time we don't lose as many the press does a happy happy touchdown dance and starts screaming GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It this were a Republican administration, this would be...

It's the end of the world as we know it...
It's the end of the world as we know it...
It's the end of the world as we know it...
It's the end of the world as we know it...


Same for the war in Afghanistan which is not going all that well.

The press votes and identifies with the Democratic Party and since the ascendancy of FOX and talk radio, they feel less and less need to mitigate their bias and feel more and more compelled to get out their side of the story.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

__________________
Ayers wrote his book,
Harvard wrote his Review,
Apollo Alliance wrote his TARP,
Congress is writing his Health Care,
Nobel Committee awarded him extra credit...,

... and the Democrat Media is Wrighting his Legacy!

 

[cebalrai]

So, who's controlling the alt today?

This is, and has always been my only Lit account. Ever. Stop bitching.

Barack Obama wants the US economy to fail... I'm just observing reality.

Paranoid, gullible dipshits like you clearly have no place observing reality.

Dissent is patriotic. But being such an awful, spiteful fuckwad - saying shit like this for political gain - is pure sedition.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Do you want his quotes on things such as coal producing electrical plants?





Goes something along the lines of, I'll still let you build coal plants, but you'll go broke running them...

Smells of patriotism to me.

So you're not mercury?

trolls