What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[IrezumiKiss]

Yes, it is insignificant. Sorry but .002% of automobiles is not going to alter anything. Also it's not significant because you haven't given any evidence that it is. You've got no data and no facts, just your guess. And your guess doesn't even have a value attached to it.





No you're wrong. And I've already demonstrated this. Also, YOU have already demonstrated this in the study you posted recently. Now you're acting like you never posted that link. Just for review:

In the scenario that excludes all the
extraordinary policies, the downturn con-
tinues into 2011. Real GDP falls a stunning
7.4% in 2009 and another 3.7% in 2010
(see Table 3). The peak-to-trough decline in
GDP is therefore close to 12%, compared to
an actual decline of about 4%. By the time
employment hits bottom, some 16.6 million
jobs are lost in this scenario—about twice as
many as actually were lost. The unemploy-
ment rate peaks at 16.5%, and although
not determined in this analysis, it would not
be surprising if the underemployment rate
approached one-fourth of the labor force.
The federal budget deficit surges to over $2
trillion in fiscal year 2010, $2.6 trillion in fis-
cal year 2011, and $2.25 trillion in FY 2012.
Remember, this is with no policy response.

With outright deflation in prices and wages
in 2009-2011, this dark scenario constitutes
a 1930s-like depression.

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/244669_o.gif

 

[mercury14]

Here's an example of Merc's beloved economics:

Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job
The stimulus is now causing the economy to shed jobs.
12:07 PM, Jul 3, 2011 • By JEFFREY H. ANDERSON

You see, this is the willful stupidity I was talking about. The consensus of independent analysis out there says that the stimulus didn't just save jobs. It headed off a downward spiral in the economy that could easily have been another Great Depression. The impact was much wider than just jobs.

What I'm accusing you of is denying this in order to make a point. You're fixated on one aspect because if you look at the whole picture your beliefs will be challenged. And you don't want that.

 

[koalabear]

You see, this is the willful stupidity I was talking about. The consensus of independent analysis out there says that the stimulus didn't just save jobs. It headed off a downward spiral in the economy that could easily have been another Great Depression. The impact was much wider than just jobs.

What I'm accusing you of is denying this in order to make a point. You're fixated on one aspect because if you look at the whole picture your beliefs will be challenged. And you don't want that.

In other words you have nothing to say, so you try to baffle us with bullshit. Moron.

 

[mercury14]

Hmm, I guess you're looking for another one trill shovel ready spending bill.

We had a 1 trillion shovel ready spending bill? When was this, under Bush? Because we both know Obama didn't sign one.

 

[mercury14]

In other words you have nothing to say, so you try to baffle us with bullshit. Moron.

Yes, to you, independent economic analysis is both "bullshit" and "baffling". Apparently the only thing that makes sense to you is "WHAAAAA OBAMA HATES PEOPLE WITH MONEY!".

 

[mercury14]

"My cousin told me it's LIBERAL!!!"

I know, right? Still laughing my ass off from this.

 

[koalabear]

Yes, to you, independent economic is both "bullshit" and "baffling". Apparently the only thing that makes sense to you is "WHAAAAA OBAMA HATES PEOPLE WITH MONEY!".

More bullshit, we know you are full of it. Moron.

 

[unregistered]

 

[koalabear]

It was more than a little jarring when President Obama joked during a meeting with his Jobs and Competitiveness Council in Durham, N.C. on Monday that "Shovel-ready was not as shovel-ready as we expected." Everyone at the head table had a good laugh.

After all, Mr. Obama argued for the $830 billion stimulus that America’s governors “all…have projects that are shovel ready, that are going to require us to get the money out the door.” And Vice President Joe Biden echoed the President, saying it “provides a necessary jolt to our economy to implement what we refer as ‘shovel-ready projects.”

The Obama White House understood “shovel ready” conveyed the sense of good construction jobs and that their constant repetition of the phrase would leave the impression the stimulus was mostly about building roads, repairing bridges, constructing runways, and extending rail lines.

But the reality is that only $47.4B – of 5.7% of the total stimulus – went towards spending on roads, bridges, railroads, airports and even high speed rail. This was apparent to anyone who even glanced at the stimulus legislation. Surely both the President and the Vice President knew what a small portion of the spending was going to “shovel ready” projects.

Mr. Obama said unemployment was supposed to be around 6.8% right now because of his stimulus. Instead, unemployment was 9.1% last month.

While Mr. Obama overpromised and undelivered on shovel ready projects, it’s no reason for laughter by him or anyone else. His little joke rings hollow for the 13.9 million Americans out of work today.


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...sed-and-undelivered-on-shovel-ready-projects/

 

[mercury14]

The way I see it you've trumped all else by admitting that Obama's economists are willfully stupid.

I'm not talking about Obama's economists. I couldn't care less about them and you're right to wary of their figures.

And stop with your silly fixation that the stimulus was just "buying some jobs". This boring right wing oversimplification crap is the essence of stupidity.

 

[RobDownSouth]

blah blah blah

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...sed-and-undelivered-on-shovel-ready-projects/

God, where would shit sucking America hating chodes such as yourself be without Fox editorials telling you what to be outraged about?

 

[eyer]

Today's U.S. economic woes started with actions in '70s

by T. R. Fehrehbach

“History” begins before we are aware of it. The fall of Rome began long before barbarians erupted across its frontiers in the early 5th century. Nero debased its money starting ca. 64 A.D.; most imperial cities were bankrupt from overspending by 190; and the 3rd century impoverished classical civilization.

I think I can trace much of the socio-economic-monetary woes of 2011 to certain events and trends of the 1970s. I do not know whether these were engineered, occurred in a fit of absent-mindedness or were due to those lemming-like movements to which humanity irregularly succumbs.

The first phenomenon was that the U.S. stopped creating sufficient jobs in the private sector to absorb rising population. However, we coped (it seemed) by being rich enough to create a so-called service economy — health care, consulting, financial services, tourism, etc. At the same time we added vast numbers of jobs in the public sector. We began to create large gains in local, state and federal employment. Bureaucrats and regulators imposed mandates that required both public and private sectors to hire more people, if only to comply with paperwork demands.

This was America's Wirtschaftswunder, which did indeed create some 20-plus million jobs, but it also had aspects of the old joke about Chinese making a living by taking in each other's laundry.

Also, systems experts warned that American industry was overstaffed, but who listened to them? They were scrooges denying mom and apple pie. Politicians then (as always) feared massive unemployment. Instead of restructuring the economy, which is painful, we created a welfare state, which is supportable, that morphed into a public-service-welfare state, which is not.

The second phenomenon of the '70s was the oil shock inflicted by OPEC. This, I think, was handled badly. To prevent what was an OPEC tax and accepting austerity, the U.S. increased its money supply by 1,000 percent between 1972-1982. This increase was justified neither by rising population or productivity; it was simply to ease the pain of high gas prices. Both Republicans (Nixon) and Democrats (Carter) created credits and money like mad, fueling what we now call the Great Inflation. Most people don't remember when a $500,000 house sold for $40,000, or you could buy a big Mercedes for $13,000. Before the madness ended, one-carat diamonds brought 60K, and sheer cliff sides in Colorado went for $20,000 an acre.

Whether in Rome or Roma, Texas, you cannot dilute the currency without destroying the value of money. Unsound money deranges and eventually rots out a society, creating what we used to call a “Brazilian” economy in which income goes into unproductive assets rather than industrial investment.

In effect, we aped the Indian government on public employment and bureaucracy, and the Brazilian economy with inflated paper. (Note: In recent years both nations have got off their old kicks to some extent, which has led to progress.)

Karl Marx wrote that history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.

As I watch our directing classes dither over money, employment and the American economy, I tend to think that we have completed the tragic phase and are now into make-believe.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion...-economic-woes-long-in-the-making-1449473.php

 

[unregistered]

 

[mercury14]

You and your defense of the indefensible is the essence of stupidity.

Again, I'm not defending Obama's economists. Pay attention.




By the way, how's your quest to prove that Obama's trop to India cost $2.2 billion and 12% of the US Navy fleet coming? Or that 70 House Democrats are official card-carrying socialists? Please update us on these important issues.

 

[Beco]

God, where would shit sucking America hating chodes such as yourself be without Fox editorials telling you what to be outraged about?

Watching Chris Matthews I guess...

 

[Ginny]

.....

 

[richard_daily]

I want to cum...

Thank you, TWB

Snicker

What would you do if you found out that TWB was half-black?
Just wondering...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Merc, you can stop defending the White House now, even they say you are wrong.

Next up, the Greek Collapse, a lesson on putting economic hardships off to the future...

The European Central Bank will continue to accept Greek debt as collateral for loans unless all the major credit rating agencies it uses declare it to be in default, said a senior finance official.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e69610e4-a60a-11e0-8eef-00144feabdc0.html

Toxic assets, just like our housing bubble...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Again, I'm not defending Obama's economists. Pay attention.

By the way, how's your quest to prove that Obama's trop to India cost $2.2 billion and 12% of the US Navy fleet coming? Or that 70 House Democrats are official card-carrying socialists? Please update us on these important issues.

Back to ad hominem mode.

__________________
A_J's corollary #4, “When cornered by the truth, the New Age Liberal resorts to ad hominem attacks. Admitting wrong is tantamount to treason to the Consensus.”

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

So Cash for Clunkers was just a $5 Billion dollar PR stunt.





A lot like hinging the fate of the debt ceiling negotiations on attacking Private Jet owners after wasting stimulus revenue "stimulating" the industry.

No plan, just words, just fear, just hate and envy...
__________________
A_J's corollary #8a, “The New Age Liberal believes that in good times Government can afford to spend more than it receives and in bad times, it can’t afford not to.”

 

[richard_daily]

I'm not talking about Obama's economists. I couldn't care less about them and you're right to wary of their figures.

And stop with your silly fixation that the stimulus was just "buying some jobs". This boring right wing oversimplification crap is the essence of stupidity.

Don't mistake it for stupidity... Now, the people who buy into it; they're outright morons... but to the folks in power who came up with the concept to peddle on the masses, it's a great means of control and a way to maintain their power.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

What I especially like is the invocation of the "assumed" (but never proven) magic million-man math multipliers...





__________________
“There is one good thing about Marx: he was not a Keynesian.”
Murray Rothbard

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Sorry Irizzy, the failure of merc's numbers are that they include ALL cars, not the pool of cars available to the poor...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Transferred from another thread

So where is the private sector, to step in and save the day like Underdog?

Held down under the fear of creeping Fascism, spanked like the GM bondholders, or the shaken-down BP, or the Private Jet industry, stimulated to produce and then vilified for doing so, or the coal industry; yeah you can build it, but I will bankrupt you...

"held down"? Wow, what a bunch of pussies.

I should have added the continual threats of higher taxation if they succeed...

2000 page laws written and passed without being read, the regulations directed within to be written by Friends of Obama, the ones who aren't Marxists, Socialists, Fascists, NAZIs, Leftists, Liberals, Progressives, Democratic Socialists, Secular Humanists, Pragmatic Centrists...,

__________________
The want of confidence in the public councils damps every useful undertaking, the success and profit of which may depend on a continuance of existing arrangements. What prudent merchant will hazard his fortunes in any new branch of commerce when he knows not but that his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed? What farmer or manufacturer will lay himself out for the encouragement given to any particular cultivation or establishment, when he can have no assurance that his preparatory labors and advances will not render him a victim to an inconstant government?
Madison, Federalist 62.

 

[richard_daily]

I should have added the continual threats of higher taxation if they succeed...

2000 page laws written and passed without being read, the regulations directed within to be written by Friends of Obama, the ones who aren't Marxists, Socialists, Fascists, NAZIs, Leftists, Liberals, Progressives, Democratic Socialists, Secular Humanists, Pragmatic Centrists...,

__________________
The want of confidence in the public councils damps every useful undertaking, the success and profit of which may depend on a continuance of existing arrangements. What prudent merchant will hazard his fortunes in any new branch of commerce when he knows not but that his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed? What farmer or manufacturer will lay himself out for the encouragement given to any particular cultivation or establishment, when he can have no assurance that his preparatory labors and advances will not render him a victim to an inconstant government?
Madison, Federalist 62.

You were boring enough in that other thread. You didn't need to bring it over here as well.