What ever happened to Communism?

Politruk

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The most surprising thing about Communism is that it just doesn’t seem to matter any more. There are still Communist states, but as an international movement – and on its own terms, Communism is nothing if it is NOT an international movement – Communism is dead. The days are past when Cuba would send troops to Africa to fight on the leftist side of a civil war. The Zapatista rebels in Mexico never called themselves Communists – they almost certainly would have, if their rebellion had started 20 or even 10 years earlier; but the name of Marx had lost its power to conjure. The leftists in Venezuela call their revolution “Bolivarian,” which does not tie them to meaning anything in particular ideologically, since Simon Bolivar was not any kind of socialist. There are still successful, or at least relevant, political parties with "Socialist" in their name in some countries, but they're only social democrats -- they want a vigorous welfare state, but nationalizing the means of production is not on their agenda any more.

And then there’s North Korea. They don’t even call their system and ideology “Communist” any more. It’s all about Korean nationalism, and Kim as the living avatar of the Volksgeist, like Hitler once was.

While the Soviet Union existed, it was the acknowledged center and leader of the INTERNATIONAL Communist movement. That is a mantle the People’s Republic of China has shown no interest in taking up. Since the Vietnam War ended, the Chinese have given no support at all to Communist movements in other countries – not even to those calling themselves “Maoist,” such as the Shining Path in Peru. It is doubtful that something like the Cultural Revolution – a mass movement to make Chinese society more perfectly Communist – could happen now, because nobody in China is that zealous for Communism any more. Not even the Communist Party. When the Chinese make their demands for Taiwan, they always say, “Taiwan is historically a province of China,” or words to that effect. They never say, “We must liberate the workers of Taiwan from their capitalist exploiters.” Nobody even thinks in those terms any more. Even though Taiwan, as a highly industrialized country, is in terms of Marxist theory far more ripe for a proletarian revolution than the backward, agrarian mainland was in the early 20th Century. At least Taiwan HAS a proletariat, as distinct from a peasantry.

This is an outcome no anti-Communist of the 20th Century could have expected. In those days, Communism seemed always to be something with a whole lot of life in it, something that might well win in the end, not by force of arms but by appeal to the working masses – that was why counter-propaganda was necessary. There was always a small still voice telling every anti-Communist that Marx just might have been right – not about the desirability of Communism, but about its inevitability.

Nobody hears that voice ay more.

What happened?
 
I think the main reason why nobody pushes Communism any more is it's no damned fun.
 
In retrospect, the danger of Communism was greatly overrated in the United States. There never as a remote chance of a Communist dictatorship being established in the United States. The fear of Communism was exploited by conservatives and reactionaries in order to discredit the democratic left, including the Democrat Party. During the Cold War the danger was not of Communism, but of a nuclear war that would have ended civilization. The United States would have had most of the responsibility for a nuclear war. We were committed to go nuclear if we found ourselves losing a conventional war in Europe. The Soviet Union was committed to only going nuclear if we did it first.

I have known and liked members of the American Communist Party. They were charming, but rather silly, and incapable of starting a meeting on time, much less overthrowing the United States government.
 
In hindsight, the Red care of the 1950s was a complete waste of time -- even from an anti-Communist POV. If there had been no Smith Act Trials, no McCarthy Hearings, no House Un-American Activities Committee, no John Birch Society, no Hollywood blacklists -- if none of that had ever happened, the course of the Cold War would have gone no differently.

The problem was that the things the red-baiters feared were imaginary. There was the Communist Party USA with its negligible membership; there were some artists and intellectuals -- and working-class people -- who were Communist sympathizers to varying degrees but never joined the party; and that was all. There was no SECRET, UNDERGROUND Communist movement in the U.S. McCarthy claimed to have a list of Communists in the State Department, but he never published it, and in fact he never identified a single crypto-Communist. (There HAD been Communists in the State Department, but the Truman Administration purged them before anybody outside Wisconsin ever heard of McCarthy.)

Oh, there were Soviet agents in the U.S. -- but they were only spies looking for information. They were not political agents trying to stir up a Communist revolution in America -- the Soviet government never, at any time in its existence, perceived any serious possibility of that. (That lack was a serious puzzle to them -- Marxist theory would predict that a country so highly industrialized should at least have a politically relevant Communist movement like in Western Europe.)

And those Soviet agents certainly were NOT plotting to undermine America's moral fiber through sex or drugs or rock n' roll -- nor through race-mixing, which the white American imagination of the time tended to associate with the first three. I've seen a photo of a crowd of segregationists all holding signs saying "RACE-MIXING IS COMMUNISM" -- and as late as the 1980s, I personally witnessed a Klan rally protesting the naming of a street after MLK, on the stated grounds that King was a Communist. Come to think of it, that was actually a point Jesse Helms raised in the Senate, when a King holiday was being debated.
 
The thing is, the Far Right political movement in the U.S, which has somehow co-opted one of the two major political parties, STILL tries to equate de-segregation, race-mixing, and racial tolerance to "Marxism" or "Communism." Still, to this day, in 2024. If you hang out on this forum, you will see the user "Rightguide" and the user "Hisarpy" (known by several different aliases) make the same kind of willfully ignorant, and downright racist, declarations. So no, this hasn't gone away.
 
In hindsight, the Red care of the 1950s was a complete waste of time -- even from an anti-Communist POV.

Sen. Joseph McCarthy said there were members of the American Communist Party working for the State Department. This was not true. If it had been true we might have avoided the War in Vietnam.
 
Funny though, how people who support the communes of Israel (and local/states rights) recoil at the thought of a political system built on community responsibility.
 
Funny though, how people who support the communes of Israel (and local/states rights) recoil at the thought of a political system built on community responsibility.
Well, I suppose kibbutzniks ain't Communists strictly speaking. Not in the Marxist-Leninist sense.
 
In retrospect, the danger of Communism was greatly overrated in the United States. There never as a remote chance of a Communist dictatorship being established in the United States. The fear of Communism was exploited by conservatives and reactionaries in order to discredit the democratic left, including the Democrat Party. During the Cold War the danger was not of Communism, but of a nuclear war that would have ended civilization. The United States would have had most of the responsibility for a nuclear war. We were committed to go nuclear if we found ourselves losing a conventional war in Europe. The Soviet Union was committed to only going nuclear if we did it first.

I have known and liked members of the American Communist Party. They were charming, but rather silly, and incapable of starting a meeting on time, much less overthrowing the United States government.
This is the US view.

My view as a German is quite different. Having relatives in the former GDR and visiting them, I saw as a child Russian tanks on the streets in the GDR.

There were organisations supported by the SED, the communist party of the GDR, and many spies were later detected after the end of the Warsaw pact. Many politicians were agents. and many journalists, too.
 
Say that you're AndersonsBiographer without saying that you're AndersonsBiographer.
 
This is the US view.

My view as a German is quite different. Having relatives in the former GDR and visiting them, I saw as a child Russian tanks on the streets in the GDR.

There were organisations supported by the SED, the communist party of the GDR, and many spies were later detected after the end of the Warsaw pact. Many politicians were agents. and many journalists, too.
Alger Hiss was exposed as a Soviet agent. He was convicted of perjury over this. People still deny this, but he was one.
 
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This is the US view.

My view as a German is quite different. Having relatives in the former GDR and visiting them, I saw as a child Russian tanks on the streets in the GDR.

There were organisations supported by the SED, the communist party of the GDR, and many spies were later detected after the end of the Warsaw pact. Many politicians were agents. and many journalists, too.
That's just the difference. In the U.S., there was never even a Communist movement that really mattered. The Communist Party USA reached its peak of political influence in the 1930s and has been declining ever since. By McCarthy's time, it was hardly even worth mentioning.
 
That's just the difference. In the U.S., there was never even a Communist movement that really mattered. The Communist Party USA reached its peak of political influence in the 1930s and has been declining ever since. By McCarthy's time, it was hardly even worth mentioning.
That is the question. The DKP, the communist party under direct influence of the GDR after the KPD was forbidden, reached in elections 0,XXX percent of votes.

The danger was not a communist movement in West Germany. The danger was the influence of Russia and the GDR. The GDR trained and equipt terrorists in West Germany.
 

That is the question. The DKP, the communist party under direct influence of the GDR after the KPD was forbidden, reached in elections 0,XXX percent of votes.

The danger was not a communist movement in West Germany. The danger was the influence of Russia and the GDR. The GDR trained and equipt terrorists in West Germany.
It is actually possible to feel nostalgic for left-wing terrorism. That is, for a time when leftist thinking was relevant enough to inspire violent action occasionally. That all seems so long ago. It's all RW terrorism, now. Islamist jihadism included.
 
And why does Trump keep talking about "Marxists" and "Communists" as "the enemy within"?! Nobody is afraid of those any more!
 
The most surprising thing about Communism is that it just doesn’t seem to matter any more. There are still Communist states, but as an international movement – and on its own terms, Communism is nothing if it is NOT an international movement – Communism is dead. The days are past when Cuba would send troops to Africa to fight on the leftist side of a civil war. The Zapatista rebels in Mexico never called themselves Communists – they almost certainly would have, if their rebellion had started 20 or even 10 years earlier; but the name of Marx had lost its power to conjure. The leftists in Venezuela call their revolution “Bolivarian,” which does not tie them to meaning anything in particular ideologically, since Simon Bolivar was not any kind of socialist. There are still successful, or at least relevant, political parties with "Socialist" in their name in some countries, but they're only social democrats -- they want a vigorous welfare state, but nationalizing the means of production is not on their agenda any more.

And then there’s North Korea. They don’t even call their system and ideology “Communist” any more. It’s all about Korean nationalism, and Kim as the living avatar of the Volksgeist, like Hitler once was.

While the Soviet Union existed, it was the acknowledged center and leader of the INTERNATIONAL Communist movement. That is a mantle the People’s Republic of China has shown no interest in taking up. Since the Vietnam War ended, the Chinese have given no support at all to Communist movements in other countries – not even to those calling themselves “Maoist,” such as the Shining Path in Peru. It is doubtful that something like the Cultural Revolution – a mass movement to make Chinese society more perfectly Communist – could happen now, because nobody in China is that zealous for Communism any more. Not even the Communist Party. When the Chinese make their demands for Taiwan, they always say, “Taiwan is historically a province of China,” or words to that effect. They never say, “We must liberate the workers of Taiwan from their capitalist exploiters.” Nobody even thinks in those terms any more. Even though Taiwan, as a highly industrialized country, is in terms of Marxist theory far more ripe for a proletarian revolution than the backward, agrarian mainland was in the early 20th Century. At least Taiwan HAS a proletariat, as distinct from a peasantry.

This is an outcome no anti-Communist of the 20th Century could have expected. In those days, Communism seemed always to be something with a whole lot of life in it, something that might well win in the end, not by force of arms but by appeal to the working masses – that was why counter-propaganda was necessary. There was always a small still voice telling every anti-Communist that Marx just might have been right – not about the desirability of Communism, but about its inevitability.

Nobody hears that voice ay more.

What happened?
Communism appeals to lazy people. But it was stinky from day one. Even the most lazy people should know that by now.
 
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