What elements do you think are required for a really good poem?

KillerMuffin

Seraphically Disinclined
Joined
Jul 29, 2000
Posts
25,603
Ignoring your own poetry.

What are the basic elements that a poem needs to be a really good one? Outstanding even?

What separates the men from the boys, so to speak?

Why do you think these things are necessary?
 
Are those your sexy legs on the keyboard? Can you type with your toes?

For me, a good poem needs to be different, interesting! Even if it's about a broken heart, just make it unique. Give me some kick butt imagery. Use those words in a new, daring way that makes me jump up and shake my butt with excitement. I'm serious. I'm tired of reading the same old thing.
I appreciate the use of complex forms. I love villanelles. I like a good rhythm. Unique metaphors. Interesting words, or simple words used together in an exciting new way. Uh... what else. Well, little things like correct spelling, grammar, punctuation. Long poems broken into stanzas. Good line breaks. If it rhymes, then I want interesting ones -- no forced rhymes.
I'm sure there's more. The more I read and write poetry, the more I demand from a poem.

Now I need to go write one that includes all the things I listed! lol
 
True rythem, a quality of song.
Powerful images, uncluttered usage,
perceptability. Personally, if I really need to struggle with imagery I have trouble loving the poem. On the other hand i do not like being hit in the face with emotional bricks.
 
Something short and crisp.
Intelligence trumps deep.
Profound is good -- but must be subtle.
Forced, dripping with emotion or spoken in an "official radio announcer voice" is bad.

O.T.
peek at my stuff
 
good poem

A good poem is one that I can get without brain juice leaking out.
A good poem makes me see something in a bright new shiny light.
A good poem stays with my like one of those songs that gets stuck in your head until you finally open your mouth and sing it out.
A good poem makes me wish I had written it.
 
The elements that I think are required for a good poem are
  • insight
  • feeling
  • awareness
  • depth, and
  • not taking death too seriously.

and they must reside in the poet for the poem to be good.

Quack

the D
 
Form, Content, and Clarity!

The best poems have those three elements working together, IMHO.

1. Form
Whether closed (e.g., pantoum, haiku, sonnet) or free verse, the form should, if possible, help convey the message of your poem. Think of the long, stuttering lines in Eliot's Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrok and how they drift along, reinforcing the image of Prufrock as indecisive and insecure. Robert Browning also does this beautifully--the way he structures runs of modifiers and line breaks in his dramatic monologues, like My Last Dutchess or Andea del Sarto, help reveal the narrator's character.

The closed forms do the same: Shakespearian sonnets are courtly, and even the modern versions (stuff by Edna St. Vincent Milay or Ted Berrigan) create a more formal setting for the message. If this is what you want to do, it can work really well.

Of course, there are people who argue that working counter to the purpose of a form creates powerful poetry, but I think you have to really undertand the form and be a strong writer to make that work.

2. Content

This is my pet peeve. Have a sense of what you want to say when you write! Free associating may produce great poems on occasion, but usually serious editing is necessary. A lot of the modern poetry I read seems to consist of little more than obscure imagery. I'm usually the first person to argue that even the most seemingly off-the-wall stuff is, in fact, poetry but one does need to say something. I think that writing is about communication between the writer and a reader: if you have nothing to say or your message is so obscure that the reader doesn't have a clue what you're getting at, you haven't communicated.

And I know that for many writers--like me, for example--meaning often evolves during the writing process. Often I think I want to say one thing in a poem and end up saying something totally different by the time I'm done writing, which leads me to my last point...

3. Clarity
Whether you choose pretty straightforward language or are more metaphorical, you still need to try to find the best words for what you want to say. When I first draft something, it's all pretty instinctive. The words are pouring out and I am writing what I "feel." I am learning though how important it is to edit my work and consider whether my language is precise. By that I mean that if I want to say something looks good, will it best serve to say "pretty," "beautiful," "elegant," or something totally out of character with the concept of "looking good" that still furthers my purpose? If you can do that in a first draft, you are a damn good writer. Almost no one can. Ever. That's why it's so important to go back to your poem (some would argue editing is never done) and think about the quality of the words you've chosen, the way you've used struture, etc.

And make sure that the spelling, grammar, usage, punctuation--all the conventions of language--are what you want them to be. It's one thing to use a weird spelling or grammatical (or ungrammatical) structure to further your meaning or make your image more powerful or whatever, but quite another to have errors in your poem because you didn't check for them.

Have I yammered on long enough? I'm full of um--opinions!
 
Last edited:
Eve, I used to be an English Teacher

Seventh grade. It shows sometimes, huh?

P.S. And you better be nice. I'm still considering what torture--oops I mean form--we should use for the next pretty please session! (Hynde says make it fun, though.)
 
Wit, intensity, brevity. Humour is good-dark or otherwise. Language-brilliant usage of meter, rhyme, word sounds or meaning. Unique perspective-twist my point of view, startle me with things never seen before (in quite that way). Oh, and good spelling, editing, etc. are a plus.
i believe I'm just reiterating points already made by other authors...ah well.

----Jennifer (jeutsler)
 
Last edited:
Re: Eve, I used to be an English Teacher

Angeline said:
Seventh grade. It shows sometimes, huh?

P.S. And you better be nice. I'm still considering what torture--oops I mean form--we should use for the next pretty please session! (Hynde says make it fun, though.)

Why not make the challenge:

- use all the elements from this thread

That'd be easy enough

;)

the D
 
poetry, to be good, needs to make me feel, think or see


i dont think the first draft of anything is publishable, (especially not my posts on lit...)

I can't begin to say the number of times I start a poem and finished it in one sitting, it just never happens, generally , I write it , free form , and un stanza-ed
then come back the next day and tweak it,
usually by the third time I read it , and edit its ok..
then I read it outloud..
Poetrys rhythms are best said outloud...
Generally, theres a few awkward un workable phrases in there, depending on the emotion I am conveying in the poem , I may or may not re work it...

For ex: If a poem is about a broken heart, then disjointed rhythms may be appropriate...
or ,
it may be a soaring lofty, phoenix reborn type poem that needs to soar out of that pain , so , i do move words and lines around .

The last thing i do , is let it alone.. i like to leave a poem to stew in its juices for a bit, then i can re evaluate it on its own merits, and not on the emotions i may have had when i wrote it .
 
Dear Drake:

You got a deal. I'll write the stanza with the correct spelling and you can have the one with the insight and not too serious about death part!

:p
 
Reading Aloud

That's a great point, Beth! I forgot about that, but lately I have been trying to improve my poems by reading them aloud over and over, listening to the rhythms. It really helps me figure out line breaks.
 
In my opinion there's only one thing that makes a great poem: it has to invoke/provoke an emotional response. It doesn't matter if it's a warm fuzzy feeling, a mournful sigh, or profound disgust, just make it mean something.

From this derives clarity, but please note that by clarity I mean only the quality of being able to adequately convey your message and if confusion and vertigo are part of what you want to transmit, let confusion and vertigo invade your work (your work, not your mind: make sure you know what you're doing).

Sometimes, the deeper meaning of a poem eludes you at first, but you can still tell it's great. Why? Aesthetic value: things like layout (line and stanza breaks, spelling, punctuation - or lack of -), rhythm, individual bricks (namely, word choices, metaphors), different layers of perceivable content, wit. In the end, it all comes down to one thing: Poetry's a catalyser.
 
Lauren.Hynde said:
In my opinion there's only one thing that makes a great poem: it has to invoke/provoke an emotional response. It doesn't matter if it's a warm fuzzy feeling, a mournful sigh, or profound disgust, just make it mean something.

From this derives clarity, but please note that by clarity I mean only the quality of being able to adequately convey your message and if confusion and vertigo are part of what you want to transmit, let confusion and vertigo invade your work (your work, not your mind: make sure you know what you're doing).

Sometimes, the deeper meaning of a poem eludes you at first, but you can still tell it's great. Why? Aesthetic value: things like layout (line and stanza breaks, spelling, punctuation - or lack of -), rhythm, individual bricks (namely, word choices, metaphors), different layers of perceivable content, wit. In the end, it all comes down to one thing: Poetry's a catalyser.
I basically agree with this Lauren, but I don't feel that all poems that I have read that have triggered an emotional response were great poems.
And I agree with what elda said in her non eloquent way: "A good poem stays with my like one of those songs that gets stuck in your head until you finally open your mouth and sing it out." I've seen movies and read books that have stuck with me. Even years later, I may be reminded of a story and the feelings it sparked. Good poetry should be the same way.
I also think a great poem, in some cases, should allow the reader to perceive the familiar in a new way. And I want the poet to clearly express something that I can relate to. Something that, perhaps, will aid me in seeing my own world more clearly. And if I can't relate, I want to read words that, at least, make me ponder new ideas.
 
WickedEve said:

I basically agree with this Lauren, but I don't feel that all poems that I have read that have triggered an emotional response were great poems.
Of course. If I read a really really bad poem I get an emotional response: I get a genuine urge to kill the author.

I think all great poems generate emotional response, and that doesn't mean that every little thing that makes you smile is poetry... ;)
 
Lauren.Hynde said:
Of course. If I read a really really bad poem I get an emotional response: I get a genuine urge to kill the author.
LOL
I've read those kind of poems! I got a death threat last week. lol
 
Emotionally true

Lauren.Hynde said:
In my opinion there's only one thing that makes a great poem: it has to invoke/provoke an emotional response. It doesn't matter if it's a warm fuzzy feeling, a mournful sigh, or profound disgust, just make it mean something.

From this derives clarity, but please note that by clarity I mean only the quality of being able to adequately convey your message and if confusion and vertigo are part of what you want to transmit, let confusion and vertigo invade your work (your work, not your mind: make sure you know what you're doing).

Sometimes, the deeper meaning of a poem eludes you at first, but you can still tell it's great. Why? Aesthetic value: things like layout (line and stanza breaks, spelling, punctuation - or lack of -), rhythm, individual bricks (namely, word choices, metaphors), different layers of perceivable content, wit. In the end, it all comes down to one thing: Poetry's a catalyser.




When I write with the exception of one poem that i have posted, it is to express personal emotions, and to invoke others to feel either what i feel or to remind them of something they have felt, or want to feel..........Poetry is in my opinnion is just like art written to create a reaction. Yes there are certain things that make a poem hard to read, but just like art some people will get it and some will not. Let the canvas fill with words of inspiration. Perhaps my simple view is why senna cant understand what i write. Poetry should not be for the lofty or learned..... it should be for all classes and lifestyles.....
 
KillerMuffin said:
Ignoring your own poetry.

What are the basic elements that a poem needs to be a really good one? Outstanding even?

A subjective connection with the reader brought on by:
1) imagery - painted with words
2) emotion - expressed to reflect the imagery
3) no technical mistakes - yes, you must learn how to use the language.

What separates the men from the boys, so to speak?

A crowbar.

Why do you think these things are necessary?

Without the connection to the reader, the poet is making items of no significance.

;)
- Judo
 
Back
Top