What does it mean to you when your stories suddenly drop in score?

[KillerMuffin]

It's a fair question, and here's an anonymous way of weighing in on it, relatively.

There are a few ways of interpreting a sudden drop in your score.

1) It's deserved. People read it and just didn't like it. The story hit the top lists and more people read it and didn't like it.

2) Usually, it's deserved. Not all stories are winners, right? Once in a while, though, someone's voting one of the stories down maliciously.

3) Sometimes it's deserved. Most scores stay steady and climb up or down slowly. When they drop, it's usually because someone did it maliciously. Once in a while, it might be because it's a bad story.

4) It's never deserved. Scores only drop a lot when someone is maliciously voting down. The "1 Bomber" strikes again.

5) Never had the experience of having the "1 Bomber."

6) Other. Please feel free to explain.

 

[A_Jacks]

The only true score is the marketplace. One may have stories go unrecognized here only to have them picked up elsewhere.

[Sorry about the spelling, drunk again, the only times I can get here now are very late due to the long, dry, easy season, and I do not use colors for text, or avatars, etc. A_J]

 

[Weird Harold]

An "other" vote from me.

When the scores drop, it depends on how much and how often the score drops.

I consider any one vote on my stories to be a malicious vote, because I don't post stories that are bad enough to deserve a one vote by any rational standards. However, my scores have dropped because of consecutive three and four votes so I consider those to be honest opinions.

 

[poohlive]

I think the voting is flawed since the question the reader gets is too vague. Is the story very good, good, fair, poor, very poor?
I mean, what sort of critique is this?
What it should be is an actual grade, like on an essay or something.
A, B, C, D, or F.
Then, there are categories. Grammar, content, design, structure. All of them are different. I have read terrific stories that had horrible spelling, and have read stories that sucked, but had perfect grammar and syntax.
Finally... a spot for notes. Something like... I love that part about the whole anal thing, but it did go on for a long time. Perhaps you should shorten it up, describe the pain, then the pleasure, then the climax, and move onto the final episode where he cums on her chest. It would let the entire story flow better, and bring it up entirely to a whole new level.
lol.
Well, anyway, you get my point.
I know there's a place for feedback, but people who send feedback, don't necessarily vote, and vice cersa. This way, it could be all in one format. The grade, the errors, or the good spots, and finally notes.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Systems are always flawed...

Are there that many malicious voters out there? I mean, really? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think I've made too many enemies here, if any. Truth is, people will vote the way they think...There's nothing we can do about that except brush off others opinions as just others opinions. Does the voting matter that much? I understand trying to win an award...I simpathize with that, but we can't control it...
As far the the system being fair, no matter how the system is set up, it'll be flawed. 1-5 A-F, it's really all the same. As far as the additional suggestions Poohlive made, most people don't take the time to vote on the stories (take a look at your profile...views versus votes). They'll definitely not bother with all of that.
Realistically, the first votes will define whether or not your story is read. If readers go into the "Group Sex" category and see a story rated 4.7, they'll read it over those rated 2.31 anyday. The first votes are those that the story carries onto the board, so if your first readers don't like the story, those tht probably would won't bother to read it...it's more chance than anything else, who sees your story first?

 

[Black_Bird]

My guess...

I haven't been around here long enough to even get a story on the top list - but I can guess, can't I?

And my guess - sometimes. I'm sure that there are times when a story legitimently drops in score... But I have a feeling that most of the time it would be the result of malicious voters or jealous writers...

My question to you is: What does it mean when people stop voting on your story - but your view count keep rising?

 

[Alex De Kok]

It's sad, I know, but when the 'times read' (or at least 'times accessed') feature was added to Literotica I was curious as to how the accesses related to votes, so I've been keeping notes for a while. I still don't know!

My most-read tale, 'Karen', which is also my lowest-scoring (!), picked up 2 votes between October 14 and November 15, but in the same period was accessed 1720 times.

My next-most-read story, 'Aunt Ellen' (Chapter 1) picked up 6 votes and 1931 accesses for the same period.

I have been lucky enough to have a tale hit the top lists. The result was that the voting intensified for a short period, but the average dropped. Something I've always attributed to the tale being exposed to more people, ie those who just check the top lists for something readable. I'm happy enough with my votes, such as they are. I've decided to leave the voting on my stories switched on, but I've stopped caring about it, being more amused than annoyed by the occasional 1 vote. I found the 2 and 3 votes hurt more.

I'd rather have feedback and views than votes. The occasional feedback from fellow writers whose work I like makes me feel particularly good. Now, back to the keyboard! I haven't submitted anything since July.

Alex

My Work

 

[Couture]

I've stopped worrying about it myself, but it only takes one malicious person to kill a story. I've had the top one or two spots several times, but the problem was I didn't have enough votes . . . so someone giving the story a one, knocked them off of the first page.

Then, I wrote Taming the Teach and I had 145 votes and the second most read Bondage story. I thought, 'Finally, I've beaten the one voters!" But, then someone gave the story three one votes in a row and knocked it all the way to the third page. Arggg!

I used to be anal about it and keep logging in to see what the scrore was. Now, I don't even bother, because I know the outcome in advance.

Look at it this way, they are doing you a favor by not letting you rest on your Laurels. When they take your Ol' Yeller out behind the shed and shoot it, then post White Fang. When someone poisons White Fang cause he was pissing on their flowers, then bring on Cujo.

 

[star_driver]

views vs. votes

Its interesting to look at the number of views vs. the number of votes. Even this thread has many more views than votes. I too have been looking at the numbers for my own work and for the most part, less than 1% of the views result in votes. Based on that, I have to believe that drops in score are mostly justified. I think people that are voting are taking time to provide an honest opinion of the story, since they are in a large minority when it comes to providing input. I don't receive much feedback either and what I do get is mostly positive. To me, that is further evidence that people who take the time to vote are (for the most part), being honest and helpful to the writer. The thing is, 4 is a pretty good score. If 80% of the people that read it, like it, then the writer is more successful than the average professional in a lot of other fields (look at athletes or politicians who would kill for 80% success). That's quite an achievement, considering most of us are amateurs writers. Personally, I am thrilled to have scored higher than 4 on all the stories that received enough votes to be on the top lists. The one story that is short votes is still above 4, just not popular enough to receive the votes required for top list inclusion.

 

[Ray Dario]

I do believe there are a few writers here who vote down other peoples work to benefit their own. Not many, but maybe one or two.

There are also a number malicious voters out there. Quite Cool if you haven't met them or made them angry, count yourself lucky. I pissed off one or two people who proceeded to attack me via email so viciously that I had to change my email address and even then I eventually left the site for a while. They have finally stopped and so I am back. We'll see how long it takes me to piss them off again

Having said that, I think that the VAST majority of readers and writers on this site are the coolest people around. They are supportive, kind and friendly, and those people vote what they feel the story deserves and a lot of them write to you and tell you why! As well as the readers and writers here the Webmistress and Webmaster are both really great people who put a lot of effort into keeping this the best story site on the internet!

I'm glad to be able to return and I can't wait to share my new stories here again.

Ray Dario

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Just becasue a story does not get heaps of votes does not mean that readers do not like the story.

After 'months' of reading the stories here before I came along to the boards to chat, I may have only voted a couple of times for stories.

Dare I say I voted becasue they 'rocked my socks' and I hoped that would prompt the writer to write more of the same. I did not vote becasue of the writing skill of the writer. Shame on me doing that becasue I am a writer myself

So if you are not scoring high, does not mean people do not like your story

Maybe they have sticky fingers and don't want to clean their keyboards in the morning

 

[Dragonette]

My thoughts

As I have a modem connection, I browse a story, if it looks interesting I copy and paste, therefore 1 view, no vote.

Later when I read it offline, if I have really enjoyed it, then I go back and vote and send a feedback.

The long stories and novellas, which are great, are to long to read online. So we have a conundrum, is a complete long story better than chapters?

As I do my reading snuggled up in bed, a long story can be to much to print.

I prefer feedback on my stories, I believe that shows a truer indication. Luckily my feedback has been mainly nice, asking me to continue or polite, constructive critism, which I appreciate.

Smiles

 

[Woodmonkey]

Is That a response?

As the new pen on the pad, I'm just pleased to see so many people looked at my story.
There is no way to know how many actually read it. All I do know is that a few took the time to vote on it.
When I submitted my work it was like trying to launch a kite into a very light breeze. I realized after some hand wringing that the real reason I'm here is that I like to be out in the elements.

Woodmonkey http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=26661

 

[Guest]

Readers' (one reader) point of view

Hi,

Just discovered this section of Literotica. If I may be allowed to give some kind of excuse, lame though it may be??

I confess - to having been afflicted with Readers' Hit-and-Run syndrome. The main symptoms are:
Forgetfulness - not remembering to vote
5 = Wow
4 = Yeah
3 = Hmmm
2 = Huh? (or duh!)
1 = Ewww
Procrastination - not following through with intent to vote
Fear - of making a fool of oneself

Most of the time, I skim through the stories. If I like it I bookmark it for future reading; if I love it I read it right then, and, if there is a reminder at the end from the author asking me to vote, then I remember to vote, otherwise I just go on to the next story and the next.

I also am not too comfortable giving feedback because I am not a writer and what I know about writing - characterizations, plots, POVs, conflicts, grammar, syntax.. can fit in the palm of one hand (having learned it years ago in high school and college). But I do know what I like to read, what makes a story work for me or not work for me.

There are times when I would have wanted to give feedback but I was afraid that I'd appear silly and pretentious (especially when the things that jar me out of my reading enjoyment are either misspelled words, incorrect usage of words - then instead of than, your instead of you're - and errors in grammar) 'cuz I do not have complete mastery of the English language since it is my second language. I still catch myself thinking in my first language and translating it in my cranium before I speak it out loud or write it. Of course, some things get lost in the translation and/or the people who do not know me very well most often smirk or laugh at the strange way I say things. So, Bahala na (que sera, sera).

I promise that from now on, I will make a concerted effort to vote before I go on to reading the next story but as far as giving feedback or writing to my favorite Literotica authors, I will have to garner enough courage first before I can write to them, perhaps, if I lurk around here more, I may be able to do that soon.

Thank you all, for your stories, which have helped me keep my sanity. After a sometimes 12 hour work day, coming home and unwinding by reading the stories posted here is a very welcome treat.

A grateful reader,

Edith

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, I happen to think that you write beautifully and cohesively. Of course, don't listen to me, I write all over the place. I would never have guess that English wasn't your native language and generally I can spot that sort of thing, there's no comfortableness with it in a lot of non-native speakers. You've got that.

It's funny how readers think their opinions don't count, are unimportant, and shouldn't be stated because they just read, they don't write and what do they know about writing. Well, they happen to know a great deal more than they think they do. They know the single most important thing in giving a critique. I like it or I don't like it. If you can pin down why, like I didn't like it because it was talking to you and I don't like that or I didn't like it because it bored me or I really liked because the characters in it were so real and or I liked it a lot, but there was this place that I just didn't believe where John suddenly got to have sex with Marilyn Monroe and didn't you know she's dead? This has absolutely nothing to do with the technical side of writing and it has everything to do with an acute knowledge of good writing and bad writing. A reader can spot good writing right off the bat. They can because they like it. I have to disagree with you there, Edith, I think your feedback is some of the most important I'd ever get simply because you know what you and you know what you don't.

As far as vote tampering, my personal opinion on the matter, I think that when my scores do their initial drop after getting on the top lists it's deserved. I think that most readers hit the top lists and pick the new stuff from there and if they don't think it's worthy of being on top, then they vote lower than they would have ordinarily. However, they're voting sincerely on the story's merit. Afterward, though, if a story hasn't moved up or down more than one vote for months on end and suddenly has a flurry of activity straight up or down, I think that's probably someone committing voter fraud. However, if there is a renewed interest in the thing, it hit the top lists, was discussed on the board, or someone mentioned it in the feedback board, then any motion is, to me, deserved.

I started this thread because I wondered what people's attitudes were regarding voter fraud. Several people have started threads regarding that horrible 1 voter in the last year, including myself, and I wondered if the attitude was that if the score drops, it was voter fraud. Polls are nicely anonymous for that.

 

[Guest]

vote bombers

I had a few stories that took #1 in the top list under bdsm, then the next day theyd be jettisoned to story purgatory. At first it kinda bummed me out, but a dear friend who has many stories in the top lists in several categories reminded me that if I was happy with my stories, then thats what's important! Not always easy to do...but what other alternatives are there? I get a kick out of the being in the top list, but....oh well, my stories are my therapy and i like how i feel when i finish one even more than being on the top lists....
Have a good day A/all!
karlynn

 

[Dragonette]

Voting is.....

Some vote, some don't!
Votes go up, go down......
Never mind!
We write because we want to, I think that is the pure basic of it!
Some of mine, still on here, old ones, really bad ones as far grammar etc goes, suddenly jump up again!

I write, I don't really go by the votes, I go by my feedback
When I get feedback asking me to continue, or to contribute that means more.

I DO appreciate feedback on a wrong 'he or she', 'her of him', it's so easy to do! Or anything like that, something that is confusing or jarring!

Now one feedback I got, was maybe constructive, but they didn't state if it was on the whole thing on just the one part!

If it was on the whole thing then I was surprised!

The email stated feedback on one chapter on an ongoing story, which I was, as I said surprised at.......

You want feedback? Okay... I'll bite.

First off, I really don't see the point. I really don't. You seem to have a passable command of the language, and I didn't notice any horrific spelling or grammatical errors, but all through the piece, I kept asking myself "What's the point?"

Writer to writer, I really think you would benefit from the use of outlines. Aother smut/porn/erotica pointed this very same thing out to me. And he was right. Without an outline, there's a tendency to meander, inserting useless dialogue, and including useless narrative

So, shrugs, one of many, therefore, do I give up by that one, or do I continue?

I will do my own thing!

 

[mmumbles]

ratings

It pisses me off when my ratings plunge! My lowest rated story started great, first few votes were 5's then the bottom fell out. When I submit a new story or poem, I usually think it's my best.....they're like my children. I shouldn't, but I eagerly await the reaction. I give up on sequels, don't submit new work that's ready, and just generally go into a funk.

 

[MaxSebastian]

Well, here's my tuppence (for what it's worth).

Like Killermuffin, I've not been hit by the 1-bomber (unibomber? maybe not), but everything I write starts higher and then sinks a bit later on.

I think that the kind of people that are there at the first couple of weeks after I've posted a story are the kind of people who are more enthusiastic about the craft of writing, so they tend to vote if they've enjoyed the story and the characters within the writing.

Then later, when a story's been knocking around for a while, your voters might be people who aren't regulars, and might not be so interested in the character and story elements of the stories (more into the sex element), so they tend to give slightly lower votes.

This is purely a theory, of course, based on nothing much in particular, i.e. my brain, I could be wrong!

 

[Couture]

Come on mmumbles! You are giving in to the one voters by not continuing your series. I know, it's hard to write when you have bad karma from something. However, just do what I do.

A. Whatever it was they didn't like about the story, multiply that by a factor of 2 and send the message that one votes or derogatory e-mails does not get the author to change.

B. Take out all the offensive and boring stuff . . . oh yeah, that usually includes plot and suspense. Then, write a quaint and cuddly little tail where you talk about how dazzlingly red the pyrrocanthra berries were as you left the mark of your embrace over the crisp fall leaves. Throw in a few cliche's and you will have a winner on your hands.

I know it is difficult to see the beauty of A. However, I swear, if you give it a try, you will be hooked. Then it becomes pratically a contest to see if you can get 'one' votes! My first vote on the latest Smell of Sex was a 'one'. Hot damn! I've offended someone's prissy puritanical morals and it isn't even lunch yet.

So have fun and keep up the good work. In the words of 311 "Fuck the naysayers cuz they don't mean a thing
cuz this is what style we bring" At least I think that is the way it goes.

 

[mlyn]

My ? along same lines is how many feedback emails are common?

and no one may know this, but I was wondering if there was like an average of emails anyone had ever received in a day, on like one story?

I consider myself still pretty new to all of this, and I was curious.

 

[Couture]

In my experience there is no average # of feedbacks or even an average per story. When I posted Taming the Teach, I got around 40 feedbacks per day. The Haunting of Heather earned me maybe one a day, but I always get these long letters when someone responds to the Heather story.

I guess it is all in how the story effects the reader and how many readers you can touch. For instance a story that has hetero and lesbian sex is more likely to have a broader audience than a plain lesbian story.

 

[garyblue]

Scoring the scores

To begin, my voting habits are not helpful. Grades run:
1. bites the big one;
2. needs work;
3. OK, readable;
4. pretty damn good;
5. knocks my socks off.

The trouble is I am not likely to vote a 1 or 2 because I bail out before getting to the ballot. I am not going to bring down some stories that need it.

That's enough OT. I will suggest that writers be able to see the number of votes at each grade. For example if the majority of grades are 4's with some 3's and 5's thrown in, then it's a pretty good guess that the 1's are malicious or ignorant. Of course the reverse is true. If the majority are 2's and 3's then the 5's are likely malicious(?)

Anyway, for what it's worth,

g