What does it mean to you to edit?

[M-Y-Erotica]

I have discovered over my half year or so as a VE that editors do very different things when working over a story. I am most interested in what other editors do and so I have posted a sample of my editing below.

This is from a story in progress and I received permission from the author to post her work with my editing. Everything in normal font is the author's original story. Everything in CAPS is me editing. You will also seem some punctuation errors and the like. I fix all those in Track Changes, but I cannot figure out an easy way to indicate that here. So just remember that, as well as the CAPS comments, I am also editing that stuff. The question: Am I going crazy doing this much? This author appears to find all these comments worthwhile and always takes time to think about them. I love working with her. Other authors seem to be put off that I didn't like their story, even though I only make lots of comments on stories I do like, and never publish anything or at least don't speak to me anymore. What do you all do? Part of the story right in the middle of things:

"
His instructions to me were cryptic, and I had no idea what was to take place. He’d emailed me with “directions” that I was supposed to follow, giving absolutely no indication of what would happen once I’d followed them. I looked at the email once more, it read “Meet me at the park. I know you run each night at 8:30 p.m., dress for it. When you get there, walk to the third grouping of trees on the left side. I’ll meet you there.” That was it.THIS MAKES ME WONDER HOW HE KNOWS. I KNOW IF CO-WORKERS GO RUNNING IN THE EVENING, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME. HAS HE BEEN WATCHING YOU?

As I approached the indicated group of trees I began searching for him, my eyes adjusting to the eliminating blackness. I JUST REALIZED THAT WE ARE TOO FAR INTO THE STORY NOW TO HAVE NO IDEA REALLY WHAT THE TWO OF YOU LOOK LIKE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE 23 OR 56. WHAT COLOR HAIR ANYONE HAS OR ANYTHING. FIND SPOTS TO DROP LITTLE HINTS. YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HIM AS LEAN AND TAUT, SO YOU MAY NOT NEED TOO MUCH MORE, BUT IT IS TIME TO THINK ABOUT YOURSELF. DOES HE CARESS YOUR SHORT HAIR OR LONG HAIR, RED HAIR OR BLONDE HAIR? TAN SKIN, BLACK SKIN, PALE SKIN, ETC. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT ADD ONE OF THOSE "I'M 5'4" BLONDE WITH GREEN EYES AND A BODY MY FRIENDS SAY IS GREAT DUE TO MY REGULAR ATTENDANCE AT THE GYM." JUST DROP A FEW HINTS AS WE GO AND LET THE READER MAKE UP THE REST TO WHATEVER THEY FIND HOT.I thought I saw movement, but wasn’t sure SEE, TWO VERBS "SAY BUT WASN'T." NO COMMAuntil I was only two steps away, and he appeared SUBJECT AND VERB SO COMMAbefore me. I trembled with anticipation as he smiled.

“Hi,.” I smiled in return. Sudden shyness making my voice come out in a whisper.

“Hello. I’m glad you could make it.” He grinned as though this was a joke, and I could see that he never doubted for a second that I would be here and be on time.WITH A WOMAN WHOSE GREATEST FANTASY WAS TO PERFORM ORAL SEX ON HIM WITH NO RETURN PLAY, I DON'T DOUBT IT EITHER, LOL.

He was dressed similarly to me in jogging pants, T-shirt, and sweatshirt, each article outlining his tall, lean body. LOVELY My heartbeat started to race, and anticipation filled me. I wondered what was in store, while at the same time restraining the sudden urge to tackle him and speed things along. I didn’t need to wait long, however. Before I could blink, or even think of a smart comment to make to his greeting, I was opening my mouth to match the onslaught of his tongue. I felt his hands reach behind me and cup my buttocks TERM SEEMS TOO GENTLE SINCE YOU WERE FINGERING YOUR CUNT A PAGE OR SO BACK, AT LEAST BUTT OR ASS OR SOMETHING "HARDER", gently massaging them through the material, and my mound was intimately pressed against his quickly hardening member. I was wet and ready for him, and I marveled at the speed at which he could create such a reaction. I ground my hips against him, silently begging for more. LOVELY

He broke the kiss and took a step back, desire darkening his eyes. “I’d meant to kiss you, but that’s all.” THIS IS A BIT CONFUSING. IT SOUNDS LIKE HE MEANT TO KISS YOU BUT DID SOMETHING MORE, GOING BEYOND HIS PLANS, BUT HE ONLY DID KISS YOU, RIGHT? YOU ARE FEELING HIM UP, BUT HE WASN'T FEELING YOU UP.(ACTUALLY AS I REVIEW THIS NOW, I SEE MY COMMENT WAS IN ERROR)He chuckled. “I have more in store for you before this is over, and I’m not going to rush it by letting my hormones… well, let’s just say that I’m not letting my cock lead the way. Come with me, my slave wench!”

I cracked up laughing at the caveman tone, and followed him further into the privacy of the trees, noticing that upon the ground lay a blanket.

“Okay, now it’s my turn. Drop ‘em!”

I laughed. “Excuse me? That’s not very romantic.”

“Oh, right. How did that go? This isn’t about romance, woman, it’s about sex… Now drop ‘em.”

My fingertips reached for the waistband of my jogging pants and I started to lower them.

“Wait, I’ve changed my mind. Take off your shirt instead.”LMAO. HILARIOUS. THAT TINY BIT SHOWS SO MUCH ABOUT HIM AND YOU, RIGHT THERE. YOU MADE A PLAN AND STUCK TO IT, NO MATTER WHAT. HE TRIES TO, BUT IMMEDIATELY WANTS MORE AND CHANGES IT. IT'S GREAT.

I looked at him incredulously. “What? You’re daft! It has to be 30 degrees out here. I’m not doing that,.” I said defiantly.

He cocked an eyebrow, “Oh really? I think you will.” His voice held a tremor of challenge, and I shivered at the tone.

Slowly, I lifted my shirt and pulled it off, the cold, night air sending goose bumps and shivers through my system. Warm hands touched my skin, and I felt his fingertips trace the underside of my sports bra before that small piece of fabric was lifted and carried from my body. My, my breasts bouncing into place before his gaze, hard nipples begging for his touch.

“Close your eyes,”, he whispered gruffly.

Closing my eyes, I stood for a moment shivering, before I felt something cover them. I realized I was being blindfolded, and my shivering turned into trembling as fire raced through my veins. MAKE IT CLEAR YOU DIDN'T JUST BECOME SCARED OF HIM; AT LEAST NOT SCARED IN THE BAD WAYWhatever he had planned, I apparently wasn’t going to get to watch. The blindfold secure, I felt his fingertips trace down the bare skin on my arms, slowing for a moment as they passed my breasts, then speeding up as they traced down to the palms of my hands. I can’t describe what his touch did to me! How hot I felt at that moment, how I wanted to feel his hands on every inch of my skin, how mesmerized I was with anticipation of the next moment. I ONCE HAD A SENTENCE LIKE THIS, WHERE I ADMITTED TO THE READER I COULD NOT DESCRIBE SOMETHING, AND MY EDITOR HAD ME TAKE IT OUT. WHILE IT IS IN FACT TRUE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY DESCRIBE THESE THINGS, I THINK SHE WAS RIGHT. IT'S JARRING AS YOU HAVE NEVER ADDRESSED THE READER BEFORE. WE AS AUTHORS NEED TO FIND A WAY TO DESCRIBE IT. THAT'S OUR JOB. ACTUALLY, WHAT YOU DO SAY PROBABLY IS GOOD ENOUGH, SO MAYBE JUST TAKE OUT THE "I CANT DESCRIBE" LINE.My breathing was coming out in quick, uneven patterns, and my legs were turning to jelly. It was becoming harder to stand with each passing second.

As if reading my thoughts, I felt my hands being tugged, as he and was led me two steps over to where I knew the blanket was laid on the ground.

“I want you to lay down. I’ll help guide you onto the blanket. It’s okay.” His voice was halting, and I imagined that he was looking at me with desireand I could hear the desire in it.. The thought sent a rush of warm wetness out of my body, and I groaned at the instant reaction that the sensation brought as my clit swelled. DO YOU ACTUALLY MEAN THAT WETNESS CAME OUT OF YOUR BODY? IF SO, MAKE IT CLEAR. FEEL IT TRICKLE DOWN YOUR THIGHS. THAT WILL GET THE READER GOING.I felt a rush of air on my skin as I stretched fully out on the blanket, and my nipples hardened even more as I trembled.

PART IV

A NOTE ON THE PARTS. YOU DON'T REALLY NEED A NEW PART HERE, UNLESS YOU WANT TO PUBLISH THIS LIKE A CLIFF HANGER. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS STORY IS SHORT, MAYBE GOING ONTO A SECOND PAGE ON LITEROTICA AT MOST, SO YOU DON'T NEED TO BREAK IT UP UNLESS YOU JUST WANT TO TO TEASE THE READER. IF SO, IT SEEMS THERE ARE REALLY TWO PARTS SO FAR. PART ONE IS BEGINNING TO END OF ACTION IN THE STORE ROOM. WE ARE STILL IN PART TWO. I felt more than heard him move and sensed that he was kneeling beside me, but that still didn’t prepare me for his hot mouth on my breast. Arching my back, I gasped and felt my body rocket off the blanket, his hard, demanding suckling making me cry out with pleasure. His free hand found it’s way over to my other and started massaging. Sensation and need overtook my senses and I writhed beneath his touch.SO, BREAST PLAY. IT HAS DIFFERENT EFFECTS ON DIFFERENT PEOPLE. IN ROMANCE NOVELS, THE HEROINE IS ALWAYS JUMPING OUT OF HER SKIN, WHEN SOMEONE TOUCHES A NIPPLE. BUT A LOT OF WOMEN REALLY DON'T. LICKING THE EAR MIGHT BE BETTER FOR THEM. THE POINT IS SIMPLY TO MAKE YOUR CHARACTER UNIQUE. IF SHE REALLY JUMPS TO THE CEILING WITH BREAST PLAY, THEN KEEP IT, BUT IF SHE DOESN'T, DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO HAVE IT JUST BECAUSE IT IS COMMON IN ROMANCES AND EROTICA. THIS IS TRUE THROUGHOUT. IF YOU LOVE PENETRATION BUT NOT CLIT PLAY, OR VICE VERSA, MAKE IT THAT WAY IN THE STORY. EVERY PERSON IS INDIVIDUAL AND IT'S GREAT TO LET THAT UNIQUENESS SHINE THROUGH IN THE SEX.

I felt him stretch the length of his body out beside me, and I reached out to touch him, my hands reaching under his sweatshirt searching for skin. I found it, hot, hard, silky. GREATI groaned. I wanted more, and started searching for it, but as I heard him chuckle, I knew my game plan had been found out.
“Nice try, but if you don’t keep your hands to yourself, I’m going to tie them together.”
"

OK, here is another section. I had been enjoying the story so far but later the author took a turn and I just couldn't follow. I have pasted a part from the story. At the end was my sort of summary paragraph.

"
I lay there spent, a puddle on the floor unable to move, yet wanting more of what had just happened. Sean layid on his side by me his fingers and hand caressing my bare skin waiting for me to rejoin him on planet earth. His mouth occasionally soughtseeking some untouched place on my body to discover and taste.

This man was so incredible. I couldn’t get enough of him. There was not enough of him. I wanted to open up my body and swallow him whole. I TOTALLY TOTALLY GET THAT EMOTION. AWESOME.To keep him with me for longer than tonight. For longer than the last few weeks. Sighing, I turned toward him, desperate to take whatever was offered and hold it close for as long as possible.

His mouth found mine and he kissed me gently before pulling away. “Ah, my little sex kitten, at last for your surprise.”

He pulled away from me and grabbed a small brown paper bag that had been hidden beneath the blanket, opening it and dumping its contents on the ground between us. A white vibrator, about an inch and a half in diameter and six inches long, and a bottle of Eros fell out. OK,I'M NAIVE AND DON'T KNOW. IS EROS LUBE? MANY OF YOUR READERS WILL BE NAIVE TOOI looked up at him questioningly.

“It’s time for you to fulfill your end of the bargain. Tonight, you will give yourself up completely to me, and I will own you.” He paused and smiled before adding, “All of you”.I DON'T THINK THE TONE OF THIS IS QUITE RIGHT. I'M SORRY. I DON'TKNOW. I KNOW SOME WOMEN GET REALLY TURNED ON BY THE IDEA OF GIVING ONESELF TO ANOTHER WHO DESERVES HER. BEING OWNED. IT TURNS ME, PERSONALLY, OFF. ALSO, THERE'S JUST BEEN NO HINT OF OWNERSHIP AND SUCH IN THE FOREGOING. IT'S BEEN PLAYFUL AND DELIGHTFUL. I WILL KEEP READING AND WRITE MORE. WHAT I AM THINKING RIGHT NOW IS THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A NEW ACT TO BE THE CLIMAX OF THE STORY. BUT YOU MAY NOT NEED THAT. THE EMOTIONAL SHIFT HAS BEEN THE NEW INGREDIENT IN THIS PART, AND IT MIGHT BE ENOUGH. ANYWAY, CONTINUING ON....

Although he hadn’t spoken the words, I knew what he meant and started to object, still unsure if I was ready to try something that I felt might be more bold thant what even my inhibitions allowed. I started to shake my head, but stopped. It was then that I realized that I wanted him to own all of me- to brand all of me- and maybe with this final act I’d finally have had enough of him.OOH, SAME THOUGHTS. I DON'T WANT TO BE BRANDED. OK, SOMETIMES I DO. I GET IT. I AM JUST NOT SURE I GET IT IN THIS CONTEXT. IT'S A BIG CHANGE.

“What’s the vibrator for?” I asked, breathless. But h

His answer of, “you’ll see,” didn’t tell me much.

He stood and removed his clothes, and I watched as each article of clothing fell to the ground and his beautiful body was revealed. I marveled at his self-confidence, thinking that he’d overcome much of the shyness and uncertainty that I had seen in our first interlude just weeks earlier. This man before me was sure of what he wanted, and at that moment it was me.

As his underwear fell to the ground I looked up at his extraordinarily hard cock and felt that same breathless excitement that I had the first time I saw him naked, and, before I could think better of it, I was on my knees and my mouth was swallowing as much of his size and it could. My mouth watering and my tongue loving the taste of his pre-cum. SEE, I THINK THIS DESIRE FOR HIM CAN BE JUST FROM THE EMOTIONS OF THE SCENE. WONDERFULLY HOT JUST THERE.

I heard him groan. “Roll over onto your stomach.”

Easing off of his cock, with slow movements I did as he asked, smiling up into his eyes before they disappeared behind me. As I was about to lie fully on the ground, his hands positioned themselves under my abdomen and urged my ass to tilt into the air.

“I was going to take a little more time with you, but thanks to your recent decision to torture me, I’ve changed my mind.”

I wasn’t sure I was happy with this news, since I felt that I’d like to take a lot more time to ease into this situation, but I was a woman of my word, and this was our last bet for this football season. As I was about to let my brain drift into the myriad world of thinking about how sad that sounded, I felt his hands on my ass and I jumped as the cold liquid Eros hit my skin.

“Hey!” I shot a look of daggers back at him for his deliberate cruelness. “That wasn’t nice.”I'M HAVING A HARD TIME GIVING GOOD ADVICE HERE, BECAUSE I AM TURNED OFF. IS IT JUST THE FEW WORDS? I AM NOT SURE. EVERYTHING WAS JUST SO PLAYFUL AND SEXY BEFORE...
"

OK, SO FIRST I SHOULD SAY THAT I AM REALLY EXHAUSTED RIGHT NOW AND PROBABLY NOT IN THE BEST MOOD, SO I HOPE I HAVEN'T BEEN NASTY ABOVE AT ALL. AS YOU CAN TELL, I REALLY LIKE THIS STORY. REALLY. BUT I COULDN'T QUITE FOLLOW YOU IN THE LAST PART. THE PROBLEM, FOR ME, IS NOT ANAL PLAY. THAT CAN BE REALLY HOT. IT'S HOW THE EMOTIONS CHANGED. THERE ARE THE WORDS OF OWNING HOLES AND THE LIKE WHICH TURN ME OFF. I WOULD BE DELIGHTED IF YOU COULD RE-WORK IT SO THAT THIS IS A PLAYFUL, NEW EXPERIMENT THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO TRY WITH THIS WONDERFUL MAN. AS SOON AS HE SAID "OWN YOU" I WAS LIKE, "DON'T DO IT, GIRL, HE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU." TO HELP GET US TO THE ANAL STUFF, ADD A SINGLE LINE IN AN EARLIER SEX SCENE, I GUESS IN THE PARK, WHERE HE TOUCHES YOUR ASS AND YOU LIKE IT. THAT SIMPLE THING CHANGES IT FROM A GUY WHO WANTS TO DO A GIRL IN THE ASS BEFORE HE VANISHES TO A GUY WHO NOTICES WHAT HIS PARTNER LIKES AND WANTS TO TRY IT WITH HER. THE LATTER TURNS ME ON BIG TIME; THE FORMER TEMPTS ME TO HIT THE BACK BUTTON. OF COURSE, THIS IS ALWAYS YOUR STORY. ISSUES OF OWNERSHIP AND GIVING ONESELF TURN A LOT OF PEOPLE ON, INCLUDING POSSIBLY YOU. THERE ARE WHOLE CATEGORIES OF THIS IN LITEROTICA THAT ARE SUPER-POPULAR. SO IT IS DEFINITELY YOUR CHOICE. IF YOU CHOOSE MY SUGGESTED ROUTE, TRY BUILDING MORE ENJOYMENT IN THE ANAL PENETRATION. IT COMES OFF AS KIND OF CLINICAL RIGHT NOW. OK, I WILL PUT MY REMAINING COMMENTS IN THE EMAIL I AM ABOUT TO WRITE.

So that's an example of my editing (with all the spelling and punctuation stuff that you cannot see). When people ask for fast editing turnaround, is this what they are looking for, or do they just want a grammar check? As editors, what sorts of advice do you give?

 

[Doclube]

What If another

Would you edit work that another Lit editor has already editted? I liked your comments as you worked through the story, that was something the other editor didn't do. She just took the story, corrected it...I guess, and sent it back.
I had contacted her 4 times, and asked if I needed to change, or rewrite something, but I was pretty much left in the dark. She just said it was ready to go.
This story was the first one that I've posted that was rejected by lit, it was because of dialog and puctuation. But it also was the first time I tried to make my characters talk.
The other editor did make it so lit accepted the story, but it seems to be going nowhere. I haven't had any comments, or votes. I don't know, but I thought it was some of my better work, and to see it fail like this is a little unsetteling.
I use MS Word 2000 for my spelling and basic error corrections, but this is different, something that word can't help with. I kind of exspected the other editor to guide me with some tips, and help me write a better story. Maybe I'm wrong with my ideas about what a editors job is, but it seemed that you cared enough to help this person with her story.
I really wanted this story to go places here on lit, but it is like no one has even read it, and I can't understand why! I think this should link you to my story. If you could read it and just give me some general feed back in my comment section. I would appreciate it.



Thank You
Daniel Pexton

 

[kbate]

URL=http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=251716]

You shouldn't (if the name was real) use your real name on this site,

I looked over your story - I won't leave public comment. It has some weaknesses, but overall it isn't unsalvagable. The vote (4.49) is higher than I thought it warranted when I read it, so the readers apparently like it better than I did.

 

[Doclube]

You shouldn't (if the name was real) use your real name on this site,

I looked over your story - I won't leave public comment. It has some weaknesses, but overall it isn't unsalvagable. The vote (4.49) is higher than I thought it warranted when I read it, so the readers apparently like it better than I did.

It don't matter about my real name, it seems as far as lit is concerned i'm like a speck on the floor...This is the first thread I have even gotten a responce to...lol.
Thank for your honesty on my story, I'm not knowledgable, to know what to do to correct it though. That is why I was hoping that my editor would have steered me in the right direction before having me submit the story.
Doc.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Picks up the speck and places it back on the counter

It don't matter about my real name, it seems as far as lit is concerned i'm like a speck on the floor...This is the first thread I have even gotten a responce to...lol.
Thank for your honesty on my story, I'm not knowledgable, to know what to do to correct it though. That is why I was hoping that my editor would have steered me in the right direction before having me submit the story.
Doc.

I'm not ignoring you, doc. I will take a look at your story unless it is in one of the categories that I don't read, which are incest and nonconsent basically. The reason I don't read them is because I can't edit them usefully. If I was reading a non-consent story my feedback would always be, "I can tell the writings good/bad, but it doesn't do anything for me." Since that is completely useless to an author of such work, I just don't waste their time. Anyway, I will read your story this weekend if not sooner.

In the mean time, if any editors have advice on offering advice in a better way than I do now....

 

[Doclube]

I'm not ignoring you, doc. I will take a look at your story unless it is in one of the categories that I don't read, which are incest and nonconsent basically. The reason I don't read them is because I can't edit them usefully. If I was reading a non-consent story my feedback would always be, "I can tell the writings good/bad, but it doesn't do anything for me." Since that is completely useless to an author of such work, I just don't waste their time. Anyway, I will read your story this weekend if not sooner.

In the mean time, if any editors have advice on offering advice in a better way than I do now....

No I didn't meen you were ignoring me, I will tell you I don't write incest, or nonconcent. It isn't my cup of tea, nor do I write underage stories. So I would appreciate your opinion also. I don't know were i'm going wrong.
Doc.

 

[CopyCarver]

I'm not ignoring you, doc. I will take a look at your story unless it is in one of the categories that I don't read, which are incest and nonconsent basically. The reason I don't read them is because I can't edit them usefully. If I was reading a non-consent story my feedback would always be, "I can tell the writings good/bad, but it doesn't do anything for me." Since that is completely useless to an author of such work, I just don't waste their time. Anyway, I will read your story this weekend if not sooner.

In the mean time, if any editors have advice on offering advice in a better way than I do now....

Like construction of tribal lays, there are nine and ninety ways, and I doubt there is a "right" way. One key element for me is discovering in advance what the writer wants and needs. Some make this clear up front; some don't; and some really don't know. It might take several e-mails or PMs to clarify, but the time and effort are worthwhile. The biggest question here is whether they're looking for editing or for coaching--I'll do either or both, but I need to know.

Personally, I don't change anything in the ms. except unintentional misspellings or obvious typos. Everything else gets marked up with a margin note explaining why I think it should be changed and offering a suggestion or--whenever possible--a couple of options.

I also tend to adjust the level of editing according to my best guess regarding how serious they are about writing. Although I'm a "tough grader," I'm pickier when a writer obviously has talent, has hopes of going pro, or is a beginner who really wants to learn. When someone has written a mediocre stroke story and is happy with that, I just clean up the demonstrable wrongs and don't worry about nuance, stilted dialogue, etc. Once again, what does the author want?

 

[kbate]

Like CC, I use several techniques depending on the writer.

When I find little issue with the story - as with several I have worked on lately - I simply correct the misspellings, errored punctuation and grammar errors. I explain those which are important and simply change the rest.

When I believe a paragraph, or entire sentence must go - if it is for a simple reason - wordiness, redundant, whatever - I use strikethrough and a margin note to explain.

Many words - usually excessive adjectives and adverbs I simply strikethrough - allowing the author to choose to keep or remove it as suggested.

Major changes - I usually do in margin notes - suggest to the writer how I read it and what I think they should try, and leave it at that - I try not to write the story for them, only to point toward the story. I also usually include a paragraph or ten at the bottom of the story - with notes on various sections and suggestions for the whole.

I have found that many lit writers simply want their story posted as written, regardless of problems and plot weaknesses - it is their fantasy and, damn it, who am I to tell them it is physically impossible.

Anyway, your technique appears to be usable. I would use separate colour for the comments.

 

[Doclube]

Like construction of tribal lays, there are nine and ninety ways, and I doubt there is a "right" way. One key element for me is discovering in advance what the writer wants and needs. Some make this clear up front; some don't; and some really don't know. It might take several e-mails or PMs to clarify, but the time and effort are worthwhile. The biggest question here is whether they're looking for editing or for coaching--I'll do either or both, but I need to know.

Personally, I don't change anything in the ms. except unintentional misspellings or obvious typos. Everything else gets marked up with a margin note explaining why I think it should be changed and offering a suggestion or--whenever possible--a couple of options.

I also tend to adjust the level of editing according to my best guess regarding how serious they are about writing. Although I'm a "tough grader," I'm pickier when a writer obviously has talent, has hopes of going pro, or is a beginner who really wants to learn. When someone has written a mediocre stroke story and is happy with that, I just clean up the demonstrable wrongs and don't worry about nuance, stilted dialogue, etc. Once again, what does the author want?

I beleave more of my problem is getting the story from my head to my hands, plus the dailog thing, I started writing as a way to relax after work, but after I found Lit, I tried doing them in a approving manor for Lit the readers. I don't really know what they want.
I write more about my wife and I because I love her, and these stories seem to flow out of my head. But it seem apparent to me Lit readers don't seem to like wife stories.
So this story I branched off, and tried a fiction story. Although it is a wife theme, I thought it might have captured some readers, but to no avail. It says it is in the anal section, but I have gone to anal stories, and it isn't there. I don't know were it is! The only way I can find it, is to do a author search, plus the only reason it is rated the way it is, it's because of me.
I said to my self that I wasn't going to rate my own story, and I stuck to that for a couple weeks...but when nothing was happening, as far as comments or votes, I figured I had to try something to get this story noticed, but that didn't work either. So here I am, I don't know what to do, or how to fix it.
Doc.

 

[kbate]

I said to my self that I wasn't going to rate my own story, and I stuck to that for a couple weeks...but when nothing was happening, as far as comments or votes, I figured I had to try something to get this story noticed, but that didn't work either. So here I am, I don't know what to do, or how to fix it.

The main weakness in your story is that you 'tell'. I did not 'feel' any emotion for any of the characters, they were simply names who had sex. Try to drag me into the story - take some time to let me know the characters. All I know about 'karen' is that she dreams of a threesome, then off into the anal sex without giving me a reason to care about her, or her fantasy.

Opening - paragraphs 1 - 4 - add some dialogue - have Karen and narrator talk, have her tell him her fantasy - write it out - put feeling into it. You go through the opening and all I know is that karen likes porn. Not enough for me to care if she realises her fantasy.

Later - the office & sex - most of the story is just the sex, nice but just a stroke story - it stops being her fantasy and becomes the men's fantasy.

The ending - just ends, doesn't conclude -- no dialogue, no thank you, nothing - just pull out and bye. (realistic - true but still, as stories go ) - try a drive home and talk, a kiss, a blowjob in thanks - anything - she just had her life's dream fulfilled, show me her happiness.

anyway...

I would go into more, but you asked m-y to edit and I do not wish to influence you or her.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Hiya Doc,

I just read through your story and I will try to add some comments. I will try to be constructive, so remember I am going to focus on things that you can improve with the next story. The big thing is to not get down on yourself because of low ratings or no feedback. One of the reasons we all write here is to get better. There are a handful of people here who are already at the top of their game, but the rest of us write a story and screw up, then try again. Anyway, the comments:

I agree whole heartedly with kbate that the main issue is that you tell don't show. "Show don't tell" is the oldest writer cliche in the book. What it means is to let the reader really see what is happening and experience it for themselves. Don't just tell us your wife is hot. Make us feel she is hot. You give a paragraph description of her at one point, where we can tell that she is very attractive. You describe in great details her bra size, even how her clit looks. The problem with such a paragraph is that we aren't experiencing her like either she experiences herself or the husband experiences her. While one's S.O. might in fact have a C cup size, that isn't how a husband experiences his wife each day, unless he's bra shopping for her. Instead, he looks at her as she puts on a dress and admires how she fills out the top. Or he places his hand on her bosom and can't cover the entire breast. Or something. The difference is that if you can integrate the husband loving his wife's body in little ways, then we too come to love it and become interested. We are there. You are showing us her beautiful body, not telling us.

There's some word choice stuff and that is just your call. When your male character has sex with his wife, does she really scream about his "big fat cock"? I mean, maybe every once in a while, but routinely? And if it is a special occasion in which she screams something like that, let us know it is a special occasion. That is the turn on for the reader. That she is so excited and horny that she's screaming for big fat cocks. That's a whole different way to have sex than looking soulfully into your eyes as you enter her. Or tossing her head from side to side trying to stay silent but clearly loving it. Remember that each way you express an action tells us something about the people and the characters. Don't be afraid to reveal unique things about each other and forget the porn cliches. Some women love clitoral stimulation, some prefer penetration. Some prefer slow, some fast. And men are the same. Let us feel like we are there, experiencing real people. (And remember fiction is OK. Reveal unique made-up people as you please.) Show don't tell. Here are some word choices in your story that will catch many people the wrong way, so as author you have to choose if you are expressing the feeling you want when you use them:

monster cock from hell
make his dick drool
the tightest opening to the world of lust that I have ever seen (can you see tightness?)
slid my throbbing meat stick
I pumped her full of my hot cum
I'm going to make you eat my aching cunt
coating her gorgeous love mounds
her into submission!

The problem isn't necessarily with any of these words per se. It's in how and when they are used. As the story is written, they seem to come out of nowhere. Not many real people use these words unless they are really, really excited, and most not even then. So if you want to use them, you have to get the character super excited and make these the sorts of people who spontaneously talk about "gorgeous love mounds."

I can't edit the whole thing here, but here's one paragraph from your story to indicate what I am talking about. Your paragraph:

"One morning I woke up in an extremely horny mood. I went down between Karen's gorgeous legs and began munching on her wonderful hot pussy. After eating her for about 20 minutes, I rolled her over and slid my throbbing meat stick into her incredibly hot fucking pussy, and fucked her doggy style. I fucked her as hard as I could, but didn't bring her off, so I concentrated on my own orgasm as it was getting late."

OK, you are trying to tell us about some lovely morning sex. Morning sex can be wonderful and very exciting to read about. But right now we aren't getting wonderful or lovely because of the way it is written. In the whole paragraph, she never moves or speaks or smiles. We assume she is awake, but we don't know. She is like a ragdoll whose legs are opened when her husband wants; she is flipped over when he wants; and she gets a throbbing meat stick poked in her over and over. It's no wonder she doesn't get off. In fact, we are left wondering why the heck she is excited at all when she goes to work later. It comes across basically like she is a sexual object for your gratification. After all, you don't seem to care or apologize or wonder why this isn't doing anything for her. Instead, we get the impression you are thinking, "oh well, she's bored stiff, but whatever. as long as I cum, it's good."

The thing is I am pretty dang sure this is not what you want to convey to us. Just a bit earlier you say how you would follow her to the end of the earth and your relationship is filled with trust and love. So, if that's right, let us feel some trust and love between both of you. Instead of flipping her around and shoving things in her, instead, wake up and feel your gorgeous wife beside you. Notice how beautiful she is as the sheet cascades over her nude form. Maybe see a few hairs between her legs and get excited about kissing her there. Lean over and kiss her face while she sleeps and then kiss along her body. She stirs and smiles at her delightful husband kissing her, but since she just woke up, she's groggy and just watches. You end up between her legs and she writhes happily under you. Etc.

I don't mean to write my story instead of yours. The point is that if you want to express trust and love, find some way to express it. As another cliche goes, "actions speak louder than words." It's not enough to say you love someone. Act as if you love them. There are a thousand ways to have sex, so whenever you write one version, realize that you are writing it only one way. Think about if that is the exact way you want to show us what wonderful sex is like, and then try again. And don't worry about failing. If you really like writing, just shake it off and try again.

Does this help at all?

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

margin notes

Major changes - I usually do in margin notes - suggest to the writer how I read it and what I think they should try, and leave it at that - I try not to write the story for them, only to point toward the story. I also usually include a paragraph or ten at the bottom of the story - with notes on various sections and suggestions for the whole.

I have found that many lit writers simply want their story posted as written, regardless of problems and plot weaknesses - it is their fantasy and, damn it, who am I to tell them it is physically impossible.

Anyway, your technique appears to be usable. I would use separate colour for the comments.

Hi copycarver and kbate. Your comments on editing make me feel better, because, well, that's essentially what I try to do. Both of you mention margin notes. I know what those are with paper editing, but what do you mean exactly with editing online? I use Track Changes in Word whenever I possibly can. Comments are in red in all caps; straight suggested changes are in red incorporated into the text. The author only needs to accept or reject. How do you do margin notes?

I think two things I have to get better at are: 1) as both of you mention, figure out what the author wants before I start; 2) make sure I am helping them write their story, not mine. I edited a very well done anal sex story once, but I wasn't buying parts of it, so I was putting in tons of possible fixes. When I got to the end, I felt more and more uncomfortable with what I had done and wrote long essays about the fact that she might want to ignore everything I said, because I wasn't sure I was helping her write her story in her style, which is my job. Maybe I was helping her write her story in my style, which is completely wrong.

M-Y

 

[kbate]

Hi copycarver and kbate. Your comments on editing make me feel better, because, well, that's essentially what I try to do. Both of you mention margin notes. I know what those are with paper editing, but what do you mean exactly with editing online? I use Track Changes in Word whenever I possibly can. Comments are in red in all caps; straight suggested changes are in red incorporated into the text. The author only nees to accept or reject. How do you do margin notes?

Microsoft Word has an "reviewing" toolbar with a "add comment" button - it places a comment box in the margin. You can activate it by selecting view-toolbars-reviewing. The add comment box is probably the most useful editor's tool, as it lets you put in your commentary while leaving the text clean for the writer.

Track changes is usable - but I have never liked that feature, it leaves a confused document, especially when many changes are necessary.

I put strikethrough, doublestrikethrough and highlight buttons in easy to reach places and use those instead.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Microsoft Word has an "reviewing" toolbar with a "add comment" button - it places a comment box in the margin. You can activate it by selecting view-toolbars-reviewing. The add comment box is probably the most useful editor's tool, as it lets you put in your commentary while leaving the text clean for the writer.

I've got you now. I use an older version of Word which put Comments as highlighted text and then you have to hover over them to see the actual Comment. That seemed annoying and inefficient to me. But I once used a friend's more recent version of Word, and it has the margin notes just as you describe. I will have to update my Word it seems, because that really would be easier to read for these purposes.

 

[CopyCarver]

Microsoft Word has an "reviewing" toolbar with a "add comment" button - it places a comment box in the margin. You can activate it by selecting view-toolbars-reviewing. The add comment box is probably the most useful editor's tool, as it lets you put in your commentary while leaving the text clean for the writer.

Track changes is usable - but I have never liked that feature, it leaves a confused document, especially when many changes are necessary.

I put strikethrough, doublestrikethrough and highlight buttons in easy to reach places and use those instead.

Personally, I hate Track Changes with a passion that verges on mania. MS Word's reviewing/add comment functions are far better--to me, at least.
I still prefer to mark up the pages with a pen, if only because I am less likely to miss minor glitches on hard copy than on screen. Unfortunately, it's not possible to jam marked-up copy through a modem (unless I take the time and effort to scan the entire ms) so I either settle for Review/Add Comment or mail the marked hard copy if the author can wait for snail mail delivery.

 

[Doclube]

Hiya Doc,

I just read through your story and I will try to add some comments. I will try to be constructive, so remember I am going to focus on things that you can improve with the next story. The big thing is to not get down on yourself because of low ratings or no feedback. One of the reasons we all write here is to get better. There are a handful of people here who are already at the top of their game, but the rest of us write a story and screw up, then try again. Anyway, the comments:

I agree whole heartedly with kbate that the main issue is that you tell don't show. "Show don't tell" is the oldest writer cliche in the book. What it means is to let the reader really see what is happening and experience it for themselves. Don't just tell us your wife is hot. Make us feel she is hot. You give a paragraph description of her at one point, where we can tell that she is very attractive. You describe in great details her bra size, even how her clit looks. The problem with such a paragraph is that we aren't experiencing her like either she experiences herself or the husband experiences her. While one's S.O. might in fact have a C cup size, that isn't how a husband experiences his wife each day, unless he's bra shopping for her. Instead, he looks at her as she puts on a dress and admires how she fills out the top. Or he places his hand on her bosom and can't cover the entire breast. Or something. The difference is that if you can integrate the husband loving his wife's body in little ways, then we too come to love it and become interested. We are there. You are showing us her beautiful body, not telling us.

There's some word choice stuff and that is just your call. When your male character has sex with his wife, does she really scream about his "big fat cock"? I mean, maybe every once in a while, but routinely? And if it is a special occasion in which she screams something like that, let us know it is a special occasion. That is the turn on for the reader. That she is so excited and horny that she's screaming for big fat cocks. That's a whole different way to have sex than looking soulfully into your eyes as you enter her. Or tossing her head from side to side trying to stay silent but clearly loving it. Remember that each way you express an action tells us something about the people and the characters. Don't be afraid to reveal unique things about each other and forget the porn cliches. Some women love clitoral stimulation, some prefer penetration. Some prefer slow, some fast. And men are the same. Let us feel like we are there, experiencing real people. (And remember fiction is OK. Reveal unique made-up people as you please.) Show don't tell. Here are some word choices in your story that will catch many people the wrong way, so as author you have to choose if you are expressing the feeling you want when you use them:

monster cock from hell
make his dick drool
the tightest opening to the world of lust that I have ever seen (can you see tightness?)
slid my throbbing meat stick
I pumped her full of my hot cum
I'm going to make you eat my aching cunt
coating her gorgeous love mounds
her into submission!

The problem isn't necessarily with any of these words per se. It's in how and when they are used. As the story is written, they seem to come out of nowhere. Not many real people use these words unless they are really, really excited, and most not even then. So if you want to use them, you have to get the character super excited and make these the sorts of people who spontaneously talk about "gorgeous love mounds."

I can't edit the whole thing here, but here's one paragraph from your story to indicate what I am talking about. Your paragraph:

"One morning I woke up in an extremely horny mood. I went down between Karen's gorgeous legs and began munching on her wonderful hot pussy. After eating her for about 20 minutes, I rolled her over and slid my throbbing meat stick into her incredibly hot fucking pussy, and fucked her doggy style. I fucked her as hard as I could, but didn't bring her off, so I concentrated on my own orgasm as it was getting late."

OK, you are trying to tell us about some lovely morning sex. Morning sex can be wonderful and very exciting to read about. But right now we aren't getting wonderful or lovely because of the way it is written. In the whole paragraph, she never moves or speaks or smiles. We assume she is awake, but we don't know. She is like a ragdoll whose legs are opened when her husband wants; she is flipped over when he wants; and she gets a throbbing meat stick poked in her over and over. It's no wonder she doesn't get off. In fact, we are left wondering why the heck she is excited at all when she goes to work later. It comes across basically like she is a sexual object for your gratification. After all, you don't seem to care or apologize or wonder why this isn't doing anything for her. Instead, we get the impression you are thinking, "oh well, she's bored stiff, but whatever. as long as I cum, it's good."

The thing is I am pretty dang sure this is not what you want to convey to us. Just a bit earlier you say how you would follow her to the end of the earth and your relationship is filled with trust and love. So, if that's right, let us feel some trust and love between both of you. Instead of flipping her around and shoving things in her, instead, wake up and feel your gorgeous wife beside you. Notice how beautiful she is as the sheet cascades over her nude form. Maybe see a few hairs between her legs and get excited about kissing her there. Lean over and kiss her face while she sleeps and then kiss along her body. She stirs and smiles at her delightful husband kissing her, but since she just woke up, she's groggy and just watches. You end up between her legs and she writhes happily under you. Etc.

I don't mean to write my story instead of yours. The point is that if you want to express trust and love, find some way to express it. As another cliche goes, "actions speak louder than words." It's not enough to say you love someone. Act as if you love them. There are a thousand ways to have sex, so whenever you write one version, realize that you are writing it only one way. Think about if that is the exact way you want to show us what wonderful sex is like, and then try again. And don't worry about failing. If you really like writing, just shake it off and try again.

Does this help at all?

Yes it does help...see I guess what I've been getting cought up in is what KBate calls a stroke stories, and have used those formats to write by.
Question for the three of you, Say you were the first editors, to edit this story. Would any of you wrote me back, and tried to steer me away from this style of story before submitting?, or would you have done the same as the editor I used. That would be just fix the errors, and be done with it.
I ask because, I found all of you had some veary good information, and from what I gather you all help your writers as well as fix errors.
Like I have said before, I just started writing to relax. I felt after reading so many of the stroke stories, that I could write them also. They were easy, and you don't have to put that much effort into it. But after reading these replies, I now understand that there is more than writing "I filled her pussy full of come".
I wasn't planning on rewriting this story, but I was trying to find out what I was doing wrong, and you have givin me insite to the answers I was seeking.
Thank You All.
Doc.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Yes it does help...see I guess what I've been getting cought up in is what KBate calls a stroke stories, and have used those formats to write by.
Question for the three of you, Say you were the first editors, to edit this story. Would any of you wrote me back, and tried to steer me away from this style of story before submitting?, or would you have done the same as the editor I used. That would be just fix the errors, and be done with it.
I ask because, I found all of you had some veary good information, and from what I gather you all help your writers as well as fix errors.
Like I have said before, I just started writing to relax. I felt after reading so many of the stroke stories, that I could write them also. They were easy, and you don't have to put that much effort into it. But after reading these replies, I now understand that there is more than writing "I filled her pussy full of come".
I wasn't planning on rewriting this story, but I was trying to find out what I was doing wrong, and you have givin me insite to the answers I was seeking.
Thank You All.
Doc.

How much effort I put into a story depends very much on how much effort I think the author wants to put into a story. If I get the vibe that they simply want someone to get their stroke fantasy published, then I am going to spend as little time as possible on it. If I am going to spend an hour on something, the author should spend four.

I guess I have two pieces of advice going forward:

1) Throw out the templates. Write what turns you on. Write what you enjoy writing. You don't need to copy a stroke story and you don't need to copy the 175 page novella with the first tense, emotion-filled kiss on page 82. Write your stories. If talking about your monster cock from hell gets you and your wife going, then write that. But if it is something else, then that's what we want to hear about. Writing is like speaking. The difference is that it has to be grammatically correct and you get to delete what you said and try it again. Speak to the reader as an author. Don't follow formulas.

2) Don't get caught up in what an editor should or should not do. Editors are just like authors here. They are people who one day thought, "That sounds like fun," and put their name down. No other qualifications are necessary (and that's probably how it should be). When some people did that, they planned on working with authors over and over and over until everyone was satisfied that the best possible work that the author could write was being submitted. I spend probably three hours on a single Literotica page when I edit. As a consquence, I don't edit more than one or two stories a week. Others thought they'd spend 30 minutes checking someone's comma usage as a fun way to assist others. We are just people helping out in whatever way we want to. If you do not get the help you want from an editor, don't worry about it. Just try another editor. Same as when you are reading a story. When you don't like a story, skip to the next one.

 

[Angel Love]

Yes it does help...see I guess what I've been getting cought up in is what KBate calls a stroke stories, and have used those formats to write by.
Question for the three of you, Say you were the first editors, to edit this story. Would any of you wrote me back, and tried to steer me away from this style of story before submitting?, or would you have done the same as the editor I used. That would be just fix the errors, and be done with it.
I ask because, I found all of you had some veary good information, and from what I gather you all help your writers as well as fix errors.
Like I have said before, I just started writing to relax. I felt after reading so many of the stroke stories, that I could write them also. They were easy, and you don't have to put that much effort into it. But after reading these replies, I now understand that there is more than writing "I filled her pussy full of come".
I wasn't planning on rewriting this story, but I was trying to find out what I was doing wrong, and you have givin me insite to the answers I was seeking.
Thank You All.
Doc.

Well wasn't I just shocked when I opened this thread and read these comments by you Doc!!! You leave out the fact that you wrote to me cussing me out for not having sent the right copy of your story back to you. That YOU made the mistake of sending the unedited version to Lit in the first place and called me some horrible things because of it. Then when you found that you had made the mistake came to me asking my forgiveness and would I be willing to continue to edit for you. I said yes that it was ok to make a mistake such as you had. Shaking my head. What a fool I am huh?

You have caused me enough grief mister already and I REFUSE to stand back any longer and take any more of your abuse!!!! You are a very small minded man and to do what you have done here just proves that to me. Did you tell these very nice people how much work I did on your piece???? Did you tell them the amount of grief you have caused me???? I don't see any of that here. All I see is someone who writes horrible stories trying to trash a person who puts in loads of hours each day editing for ingrates such as yourself.

I'm sorry follks for my outburst, but I am just sick of this man's sefishness. I worked very hard to make his story even as readable as it was. I gave feedback and yet that was not enough. I suppose he wanted me to completely rewrite his story for him. Well I don't do that anymore. I tell it like I see it and if the writer cannot appreciate what I am trying to teach him/ her then they can move on to another editor. After all we DON'T get paid for this!!!!

It is people like you Doc that make people like me want to hang up the towel and quit doing nice things for people. There are MANY authors out there, however, who appreciate my work and come back to me time and time again for their editing needs. They are the ones who keep me going. I will not quit because of someone like you. I will contine for them.

Perhaps I am not the most talented editor on the Literotica list, but I do know what I'm doing and I do it rather well for the most part. I'm so sorry that I am not perfect. I can tell you one thing though Doc.....YOU WILL NEVER MAKE ME CRY AGAIN . . . no matter how many nasty things you try to say about me. You thought you were hiding behind the fact that you just said your editor instead of saying my name outright, but everyone who read this thread knew you were talking about me when they looked at your story. That is just not right, but hey.....you are not a nice man...so oh well. The joke is on me I suppose.

It's too bad you did not tell them how you wrote me and used the F word a couple of times huh? No I suppose you would not want the good people to know you are like that . . . sighs.

I'll shut up now. Thank you all for listening to my rambling. I will not say any more about this subject now . . . Have a wonderful weekend.

 

[Doclube]

How much effort I put into a story depends very much on how much effort I think the author wants to put into a story. If I get the vibe that they simply want someone to get their stroke fantasy published, then I am going to spend as little time as possible on it. If I am going to spend an hour on something, the author should spend four.

I guess I have two pieces of advice going forward:

1) Throw out the templates. Write what turns you on. Write what you enjoy writing. You don't need to copy a stroke story and you don't need to copy the 175 page novella with the first tense, emotion-filled kiss on page 82. Write your stories. If talking about your monster cock from hell gets you and your wife going, then write that. But if it is something else, then that's what we want to hear about. Writing is like speaking. The difference is that it has to be grammatically correct and you get to delete what you said and try it again. Speak to the reader as an author. Don't follow formulas.

2) Don't get caught up in what an editor should or should not do. Editors are just like authors here. They are people who one day thought, "That sounds like fun," and put their name down. No other qualifications are necessary (and that's probably how it should be). When some people did that, they planned on working with authors over and over and over until everyone was satisfied that the best possible work that the author could write was being submitted. I spend probably three hours on a single Literotica page when I edit. As a consquence, I don't edit more than one or two stories a week. Others thought they'd spend 30 minutes checking someone's comma usage as a fun way to assist others. We are just people helping out in whatever way we want to. If you do not get the help you want from an editor, don't worry about it. Just try another editor. Same as when you are reading a story. When you don't like a story, skip to the next one.

I want to thank you for your time first of all, and I have copied all the suggestions
that was brought up in this thread.
I plan on going to the story I have been working on , and using these heplful hints. Question, Say I wrote another story, and chose a editor to edit it before submitting.
Would it be wrong to ask the editor after reading my story if they could help by suggesting something if they had seen that I didn't know were to go, or have gotten lost in the story?
Doc.

 

[Doclube]

Well wasn't I just shocked when I opened this thread and read these comments by you Doc!!! You leave out the fact that you wrote to me cussing me out for not having sent the right copy of your story back to you. That YOU made the mistake of sending the unedited version to Lit in the first place and called me some horrible things because of it. Then when you found that you had made the mistake came to me asking my forgiveness and would I be willing to continue to edit for you. I said yes that it was ok to make a mistake such as you had. Shaking my head. What a fool I am huh?

You have caused me enough grief mister already and I REFUSE to stand back any longer and take any more of your abuse!!!! You are a very small minded man and to do what you have done here just proves that to me. Did you tell these very nice people how much work I did on your piece???? Did you tell them the amount of grief you have caused me???? I don't see any of that here. All I see is someone who writes horrible stories trying to trash a person who puts in loads of hours each day editing for ingrates such as yourself.

I'm sorry follks for my outburst, but I am just sick of this man's sefishness. I worked very hard to make his story even as readable as it was. I gave feedback and yet that was not enough. I suppose he wanted me to completely rewrite his story for him. Well I don't do that anymore. I tell it like I see it and if the writer cannot appreciate what I am trying to teach him/ her then they can move on to another editor. After all we DON'T get paid for this!!!!

It is people like you Doc that make people like me want to hang up the towel and quit doing nice things for people. There are MANY authors out there, however, who appreciate my work and come back to me time and time again for their editing needs. They are the ones who keep me going. I will not quit because of someone like you. I will contine for them.

Perhaps I am not the most talented editor on the Literotica list, but I do know what I'm doing and I do it rather well for the most part. I'm so sorry that I am not perfect. I can tell you one thing though Doc.....YOU WILL NEVER MAKE ME CRY AGAIN . . . no matter how many nasty things you try to say about me. You thought you were hiding behind the fact that you just said your editor instead of saying my name outright, but everyone who read this thread knew you were talking about me when they looked at your story. That is just not right, but hey.....you are not a nice man...so oh well. The joke is on me I suppose.

It's too bad you did not tell them how you wrote me and used the F word a couple of times huh? No I suppose you would not want the good people to know you are like that . . . sighs.

I'll shut up now. Thank you all for listening to my rambling. I will not say any more about this subject now . . . Have a wonderful weekend.

I'm not going to fight with you, I'm seeking help. So if you can't handle that then it sucks to be you. Oh by the way, nice IM, that was real helpfull.
Doc.