What does "dark" mean?

[AG31]

I asked Google's AI:

Dark comedy: also known as black comedy, is a style of humor that makes light of serious, taboo, painful, or morbid subjects that are generally considered difficult or uncomfortable to discuss. It finds amusement in things like death, tragedy, illness, crime, and war, using irony, satire, and absurdity to process harsh realities.

Dark drama: is a subgenre of drama in film, television, and literature characterized by bleak themes, psychological tension, and deeply flawed or morally ambiguous characters. Unlike standard dramas that focus on emotional conflict with the hope of resolution, dark dramas explore the grittier, unsettling aspects of human nature and society, often offering little to no comforting closure.

Dark literature: is an umbrella term for fiction that explores the bleakest, most unsettling aspects of the human condition, morality, and existence. Rather than offering comforting resolutions, these works deliberately lean into themes of psychological trauma, moral ambiguity, obsession, decay, and the macabre.

Dark pornography: (or dark erotica) is a genre of adult media characterized by taboo, transgressive, psychologically complex, or extreme themes. Unlike mainstream adult content that focuses primarily on conventional pleasure and romance, dark erotica explores the psychological fringes of desire, power dynamics, and societal taboos.

More on this in a separate post, but I gotta ask why "drama" and "literature" are separate categories... Or why comedy is assumed to be parallel to the other three. I give this essay a D.

 

[AG31]

For me, dark is, pushing situation past a normal comfort zone.

Close, but no cigar. I think I could find a number of instances where I'm pushed past a normal comfort zone, but would not call the "pusher" dark. Probably situations where other people would be quite comfortable. Discomfort due to age and class. But close, as others have suggested.

Themes of trauma and loss of agency tend to have the greatest darkness associated with them.

Loss of agency might be ringing a bell for me. I'm going to keep this in the back of my mind and test it against stuff that I encounter that I or others classify as dark.

twisted, macabre, or relating to the dark side of our nature. The id, or in Jungian terms the shadow side. The dionysian side of our nature. We are uncomfortable acknowledging that we even have that side of our nature, but that's part of what makes it erotically pleasurable

You're naming several things, but not defining them. What makes the id, and dionysius and shadow side dark? But in response to what I think you mean, I wouldn't go so far as to call lack of rationality the same as dark, although it might be used in that way.

characterized by bleak themes, psychological tension, and deeply flawed or morally ambiguous characters

Nah... (note to readers, Emma_0 is quoting Google AI.

genre of adult media characterized by taboo, transgressive, psychologically complex, or extreme themes. Unlike mainstream adult content that focuses primarily on conventional pleasure and romance, dark erotica explores the psychological fringes of desire, power dynamics, and societal taboos.

Psychologically complex???? Gimme a break, Google AI.

Dark, truly dark, media explores those unpleasant dichotomies and grim realities in a safe way.

I think unpleasant dichotomies doesn't naturally equate to dark.

The darkest stories are the one where you get a normal person doing atrocious acts, and you can see how they got there, and it's unsettling because, if you were honest with yourself, you realize that could've been you.

Something to think about. Another one I'll keep in the back of my mind.

I think my darkest story is not the one where I torture a guy — that's fear demons doing their thing, it's cut with humor, and he's fine at the end.

I misread this at first and thought you were labeling torture as dark. I think, in my own mind, suffering of some sort has to play into a dark story. I'm going to think about that more. Stay tuned.

society built on the suffering and horrific abuse

I didn't misread this one. (see previous comment)

Mostly, though, it involves going outside comfortable boundaries of society. So dark humour has you thinking "Oh, this is really not politically correct but it's funny!" Dark erotica takes you beyond conventional situations of love, lust and comfort, and into dangerous ones involving fear, horror and coercion. Dark fantasy and sci-fi explore the nastier side that people are capable of, either individually or as a group or society.

All true. I think. Again, stay tuned.

 

[gloomyMoron]

I think unpleasant dichotomies doesn't naturally equate to dark.

True. It wasn't my claim, but I can certainly see how it can be taken that way. My opinion was that truly dark media often explores those dichotomies and contradictions to elicit some sort of emotional response (depending on the media). Dark comedy, for example, often juxtaposes something innocent or mundane in a provocative way. [see: below]

https://flic.kr/p/o65w

So, I suppose, in a way something is often considered dark when it is grim, off-putting, or surreal, in an authentic sort of way, that contrasts to the expected norm. Or when it deals with traditionally uncomfortable topics (Death, the taboo, society, etc.) in a transgressive way but still remains relatable to the, for lack of a better word, consumer.

That's my take on it, though. What is and isn't dark is personal, cultural, and societal; all at the same time. It'll differ depending on who and where you are, and what you identify with.

 

[AG31]

something is often considered dark when it is grim, off-putting, or surreal,

I'd go with grim and off-putting, but not surreal. Sometimes surreal is just weird. The surreal thing would have to be grim or off-putting. Sorry, nit-picking. But it's fun.

 

[AG31]

Unfortunately, in many cases, this is a euphemistic term used to describe abusive relationships in which one partner exhibits psychopathic traits.

You suggest that "dark" is inappropriate in this situation. So it leads me to wonder what quality has to be added to a story describing an abusive relationship to make it legitimately "dark" and not just exploitative. I dunno, but I'm interested.

 

[AG31]

deleted

 

[Bazzle]

deleted

Oh you deleted whatever comment you said

 

[SimonDoom]

You're naming several things, but not defining them. What makes the id, and dionysius and shadow side dark? But in response to what I think you mean, I wouldn't go so far as to call lack of rationality the same as dark, although it might be used in that way.

I think it's often more helpful in discussions like these to give examples of what we mean rather than trying to put just the right definition on it.

"Dark" is the part of human nature we don't want people to see. It lies in the shadow, hence, it's dark.

A dark comedy is dark because it concerns a subject that you're not "supposed to" laugh at, but you do anyway, and the darkness of it gives it a delicious pleasure. Like Dr. Strangelove, which is about global nuclear war.

Erotica ties in with darkness because it so often involves elements of the forbidden -- desires you're not supposed to have or to express.

 

[Ianus4]

You suggest that "dark" is inappropriate in this situation. So it leads me to wonder what quality has to be added to a story describing an abusive relationship to make it legitimately "dark" and not just exploitative. I dunno, but I'm interested.

These stories may indeed be dark, but what I was trying to point out here is that those who portray such abusive relationships in a fetishized way are trying to make the story more appealing by using the word “dark.”

 

[ALustSupreme]

I would say all types of sadism and cruelty outside of consensual bdsm. This can include the cruelty of nature or fate. People being hurt in deep ways that are not easily resolved. Also futile struggles that are hopeless. These things are dark for me and transcend genre.

 

[Dodola]

To me, there has to be a sinister or evil element involved, whether through thoughts, actions, speech, or circumstances. It can be voluntary or involuntary as it affects characters, but evil is at its core.

 

[MillieDynamite]

In romance, bad boys and sweet girls, sweet boys and bad girls, interracial romance in the BNWO subgenre (because of his color, because it is transgressive fiction, because it subverts other versions of IR into darker waters, just because I say so, no wait, that's my Mum and me.) Anything that is transgressive fiction is a dark story: incest, murder, crime, whatever.

 

[StillStunned]

People often talk about how humour is subjective, but perhaps this thread shows that darkness is just as subjective.

 

[Bazzle]

People often talk about how humour is subjective, but perhaps this thread shows that darkness is just as subjective.

I often find myself self questioning where the humour is with dark humour

 

[ElectricBlue]

More on this in a separate post, but I gotta ask why "drama" and "literature" are separate categories... Or why comedy is assumed to be parallel to the other three. I give this essay a D.

Probably only because drama is acted out, in a film or on a stage, whereas literature is read by an individual, from a book. Comedy gets special mention because it can manifest in so many ways and has, I think, always been considered an art form in itself.

I suspect "dark" has fallen into parlance in more recent years, through political correctness. In the C20th, Dr Strangelove, for example, was always considered black comedy, not dark comedy.

 

[Britva415]

Unfortunately, in many cases, this is a euphemistic term used to describe abusive relationships in which one partner exhibits psychopathic traits.

I can't tell what you mean to say is "unfortunate."

Unfortunate that a euphemism is used? Unfortunate that this stuff is written about at all? Unfortunate that this can happen in real life? Something else?

 

[Ianus4]

I can't tell what you mean to say is "unfortunate."

Unfortunate that a euphemism is used? Unfortunate that this stuff is written about at all? Unfortunate that this can happen in real life? Something else?

The first one.

 

[Ianus4]

I suspect "dark" has fallen into parlance in more recent years, through political correctness. In the C20th, Dr Strangelove, for example, was always considered black comedy, not dark comedy.

It's interesting that Black Mirror was still released with this title.

 

[AG31]

Would all distopian stories qualify as dark?

 

[StillStunned]

Would all distopian stories qualify as dark?

I'm not certain that they all do, but it's quite likely. The themes are generally oppression, disparities in rights, wealth and status, and hopelessness for the future. Those are generally dark themes.

 

[AG31]

Given the replies here I'm developing a hypothesis that (for me, anyway), "dark" implies suffering. Anything from the suffering of a population invaded by zombies to the endurance of pain or humiliation in a BDSM scene.

I'm sure suffering isn't sufficient. It's mere presence doesn't make something dark.

But I think it might be essential (again, for me.)

Of my 10 Lit, pretty harsh, BDSM stories, I would only classify 2 as dark. See below.

So I decided to review the stories presented in this thread as examples of darkness. I have three questions.

1) Does the story qualify as dark for me?

2) Does the story involve suffering of some sort?

3) What, if any, is the extra quality that raises (lowers?) suffering to darkness? OR why wasn't it dark?

Be Still My Beating Heart 1) No 2) No 3) Horror. More clever than dark. And maybe @StillStunned's point is relevant here: "To tap into a dark theme, you have to make the writing dark."
by @ClintonBrooks

Sliding Down the Bank 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Layers to the character
The Fat, Drunk Chain-Smoker 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Layers to the character
Never Kiss Your Mark 1) Yes 2) Yes/No 3) I have to think more about "suffering" The darkness here is lack of suffering. ' "Dark" is the part of human nature we don't want people to see.' (@SimonDoom)
by @Bazzle

The Valentine Debt 1) No 2) No 3) The suffering, if present, is too subtle and complicated
by @anthrodisiac

Not a Soul 1) No 2) Yes 3) More horror and cleverness
Love at First Sight 1) Yes 2) No 3) I think I'm modifying my hypothesis about suffering
The Scourge of Sainte Barbara Sorry, I can't read 7 Lit pages on a computer and this was too complex to skim
The Only Flower on Rose Street 1)Yes 2)No 3) "the part of human nature we don't want people to see"
by @StillStunned

An Enigma 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Deep "loss of agency." Forced by circumstances, not by desire.
Vignette 3 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Raw suffering/surrender. No moderating aspects like character layers or plot twists
by @AG31


Conclusion: I think, I have to add an alternative quality that can constitute a dark story. As @SimonDoom says, "Dark" is the part of human nature we don't want people to see." This, like suffering, can be an alternative essential, but not sufficient attribute to make a story dark. I learned this by reading Never Kiss Your Mark, Love at First Sight and The Only Flower on Rose Street.

 

[Bazzle]

Never Kiss Your Mark 1) Yes 2) Yes/No 3) I have to think more about "suffering" The darkness here is lack of suffering. ' "Dark" is the part of human nature we don't want people to see.' (@SimonDoom)
by @Bazzle

Conclusion: I think, I have to add an alternative quality that can constitute a dark story. As @SimonDoom says, "Dark" is the part of human nature we don't want people to see." This, like suffering, can be an alternative essential, but not sufficient attribute to make a story dark. I learned this by reading Never Kiss Your Mark, Love at First Site and The Only Flower on Rose Street.

From me as the authors point of view the suffering is on two levels in Never Kiss Your Mark firstly the main characters internal dialogue?

Their view on the world is twisted by their job?

Secondly as I have left the ending in an interesting place, maybe the readers own thoughts are twisted in the darkness?

 

[RetroFan]

Dark humor I tend to class as jokes about things that are considered inappropriate.

For example in one of my Halloween stories set in 1959 four slacker guys attend their high school dance that night wearing costumes that could best be described as interesting. The big guy Ralph is dressed as The Big Bopper, Simon the skinny guy with glasses as Buddy Holly, the Italian-American guy Tony as Richie Valens and the fourth guy Roger dresses up as a pilot to be Roger Peterson, the pilot from the fatal plane crash. The high school principal - a strict and humorless man - is anything but impressed by their costume choices.

Obviously there is nothing funny about the tragic plane crash that took the life of these four men nor any other fatal aviation accidents, but there is humor in these boys choosing such inappropriate Halloween costumes and the reaction it causes.