What do you think?

[Cheyenne]

I hesitate to post this one, but I am posting it anyway because I am curious what the rest of you think. I haven't seen "race" mentioned as a major factor in this election until now. Comments, anyone?


Gore used race as his ace card in election
By Ralph Z. Hallow
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
http://www.WashTimes.com/national/default-200011922370.htm


Race was the most potent factor in Tuesday's elections, with 90 percent of black voters voting for Al Gore despite George W. Bush's fervent outreach to the minority community.

White voters favored Mr. Bush by a 53 percent to 42 percent
margin, and blacks supplied Mr. Gore's 98,000-vote edge in the popular vote and helped the vice president win key states.

The recount in Florida, where the margin between Mr. Bush and Mr. Gore was less than 2,000 votes, was entirely due to blacks voting overwhelmingly for Mr. Gore. Whites in Florida voted 57 percent to 40 percent for Mr. Bush, exit polls showed, while blacks went a stunning 93 percent to 7 percent for the vice president.

Mr. Bush's appeals to minority voters, an effort unprecedented for Republican presidential candidates, apparently gained him no extra black votes on Election Day, even in his home state, where he won only 5 percent of black votes.

"Despite numerous overtures by George W. Bush, blacks voted
hugely and typically for the Democrat," says independent pollster John Zogby. "Bush made no inroads at all in the black voter bloc."

In crucial swing states, including Pennsylvania and Michigan, black votes made the difference for the Democrat, providing an Electoral College count so close that the election came down to one deadlocked state.

Such clear-cut evidence of racial polarization has many
Republican analysts asking whether President Clinton and others haven't contributed to the growing chasm between the races by emphasizing racial issues.

Democrats "made a concerted effort to turn out [the black] vote and they did it in a very divisive way," says Bush campaign spokesman Mindy Tucker.

She recalls Mr. Gore's remarks at a black church in Pittsburgh before Election Day in which the vice president suggested that Mr. Bush, if elected president, would appoint federal judges who would use "the strictly constructionist meaning that was applied when the Constitution was written how some people were
considered three-fifths of a person."

"Certain things [Mr. Gore] insinuated along the way were just outrageous and done for the explicit purpose of dividing the black community from other Americans."

She notes that Mr. Bush did better among other voter groups, such as women and Hispanics.

"We lost among [non-Hispanic white] women by only one
[percentage] point," says Miss Tucker. "And in 1996, the
Democrats' margin of victory among Hispanics was 7-to-2. This time, it was 2-to-1."

Scott Rasmussen, who conducted his own post-election voter
survey for Portrait of America, says, "In America today, for
whatever reason, the black vote goes overwhelmingly for
Democratic candidates. The only question before an election is how strong the black turnout will be."

That observation is illustrated in several key states carried by Mr.Gore, where the black vote proved decisive:

* While Mr. Bush won by a narrow margin (49 percent to 48
percent) among white voters in Illinois, Mr. Gore's 92 percent to 7 percent advantage among black voters help him carry that state by 12 percentage points.

* Mr. Bush led among white voters in Maryland and Michigan (51 percent to 46 percent). More than 90 percent of black voters in those states chose Mr. Gore, giving him a 57 percent majority in Maryland and a 51 percent to 46 percent margin in Michigan.

* White voters in Pennsylvania chose Mr. Bush by a 50 percent to 48 percent margin, and black voters overcame that Bush margin to give Mr. Gore a 51 percent majority in the total vote.

"No other voting bloc votes so overwhelmingly for the Democrat candidate," says Republican pollster Kellyanne Fitzpatrick.

"Talk about polarization I was amazed when I looked at some of the congressional districts with heavy black populations."

In Deep South states with the nation's largest black populations, however, overwhelming white majorities for Mr. Bush nullified Mr. Gore's advantage among black voters.

In six states Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas more than 70 percent of white voters went for Mr. Bush. In Mississippi, where blacks are 36 percent of the population, 81 percent of whites voted for Mr. Bush, giving him a 58 percent to 40 percent win. Mr. Bush won Tennessee and Virginia with 60 percent of the white vote in those states.

"This election was about geography not demographics," says Miss Fitzpatrick. "But this black vote is one of the very few exceptions to that. It made it easy for Democrats to target I mean, everyone knew Pennsylvania, Florida and Michigan were critical to this race. But Democrats had a natural advantage because it afforded them the opportunity to focus in on a homogenous, monolithic group of voters who vote Democrat."

Mr. Zogby agrees. "The black vote is as much a slam-dunk
Democrat vote as you can get," he says.

"In Florida and Pennsylvania, the Democrats' Medicare scare
campaign did turn more seniors out," says Miss Fitzpatrick. Still, Bush did better among seniors than had past Republican candidates in Florida.

Like Mr. Rasmussen, Miss Fitzpatrick conducted a survey of
those who actually voted in the presidential election on Tuesday.

"It is particularly disturbing in the year 2000, when so many improvements have been made in race relations and so many black Americans are part of the investor class and Internet-user class, that none of those cultural improvements are reflected at the ballot box on Tuesday," she says. "Their default position is 'Democrat.'"

 

[Sammyjo]

I wonder if it has anything to do with Clinton calling all the African American families to remind them to vote...

Didn't Gore once say he refused to sit next to a black man or something? I thought I heard that...and if so, why on earth would they vote for him? grrrrrrrrrr....so many contradictions...like how one candidate was reported to say to the other "There is no need to get snippy" and an hour later, the other candidate was reported to have said it...it makes me wonder why do we listen to anything anyone says.........EVER!!!!

And why do we even vote? It seems utterly ridiculous that we vote in morons who have less sense than a common troll. I wonder what would happen if no one voted...how would they decide then?

So many things for me to wonder.......*if anyone gets this reference, I will love you forever*

 

[Cheyenne]

Didn't Gore once say he refused to sit next to a black man or something? I thought I heard that...and if so, why on earth would they vote for him?

No one would ever mistake me for a Gore supporter, but I can't believe that one. No way would he have said anything like that, you must have just heard a nasty rumor somewhere along the way.

 

[Sammyjo]

Yeah, I'm probably mistaken, because Lord knows he's been lying all the time...he probably said he WOULD sit next to one...and didn't...or something...remember, Gore invented the internet...and something else...see how closely I followed the whole dang blasted thing?

 

[Guest]

I agree completely Cheyenne. I can't believe that nigger-lover Gore wastes his time trying to push that ethnic crap on the good people of the nation. Who the hell cares what them jungle bunnies think? What makes them think they have a say in government? They're lucky they aren't out picking cotton. The Republicans got it right. Those Democrats thinking every vote counts - we know the truth! Gore's running mate's a goddamn Jew for cryin out loud! We don't support know kikes, no spics, and no fags, no dykes, and certainly no niggers. I can't thank you enough Cheyenne for having the guts to point out what a nigger-lover that Al Gore really is.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Most of the black people I know, that I've talked to about this, support Gore. It's not Gore specifically, cause they think he's just a little less worse than Bush. They vote Democrat because the Democrat platform is one that addresses the issues they are primarily concerned with. You'll also go on to note the descrepancy in geography. Urban centers voted in the majority for Gore while rural America voted in the majority for Bush.

Out here in the sticks we vote mainly for Bush. The reason why is that we are afriad Gore will treat the entire nation as if we were all citizens of New York City or Los Angeles, he will enact or sign legislation that will be good for them but will be bad for us. The biggest fear I have personally, and both candidates will do it, is that they will worry more about the majority who live in metropolitan areas and forget those of us who can't bring huge voting blocks to the next election. Our needs will be pushed to the side in the effort to please those who live in key places like Miami.

I think too many people make too much of racial issues. Just because a majority of black people agree with the Democratic agenda and not the Republican one doesn't mean that all black people do, or that they just mindlessly vote democrat.

 

[Cheyenne]

I can't thank you enough Cheyenne for having the guts to point out what a nigger-lover that Al Gore really is.

Once again, I'll make an exception and reply to the troll rather than tell him to head to coventry.

If you think that I support any of your racist comments, you don't know me very well. I actually think both Gore and Bush support minorities, although they use different methods.

My curiosity was with the voting results only- the power that a block of voters can have in an election if they stick together.

 

[Weird Harold]

Figures don't lie...

My curiosity was with the voting results only- the power that a block of voters can have in an election if they stick together.

... But liars figure. -- Mark Twain(?)

There are all sorts of interesting statistical data derived from the exit polls.

Men voted for Bush by an 11% margin, Women voted for Gore by the same margin. (No comment on the relative numbers of men and women voting, so it's meanigless to copmare percentages.

Rural voted Bush, Urban voted Gore.

Minorities voted for Gore, Whites voted for Bush.

(The last two say the same thing, cause there are more rural whites than rural minorities.)

Essentially, all any of this means, is that the election is too close to call, so the news services have to have something to report until the vote is finally certified.

 

[RisiaSkye]

I actually think that the non-white tendency to vote Democrat isn't as knee-jerk as people have suggested. Historically, the bulk of the legislation which has worked to overturn racial discrimination, segregation, etc. has been advanced by Democrats. Also, the attention to educational reform (moving away from racially and economically biased testing, etc.) and adequate health care for the poor (a major vote grabber as the Baby Boomers age) are deal-breaking issues for many of those voters. On these counts, Democratic candidates have advocated policies which are more to their advantage.

This is not an evaluation of whether that is good or bad, btw. It is just not any more mystifying than why women tend to vote for the pro-choice candidates more than the pro-life ticket. There are some hot-bed issues that swing the votes.

Perhaps this should be a message to those Republicans bitching about losing the minority vote? Hmmm...it couldn't have anything to do with your platform, could it? It must've been the other guy lying. Of course, that's it.

 

[Skibum]

It is ironic that 90% or more of Black voters vote Democratic now. When first allowed to vote in the aftermath of the Civil War, nearly all Blacks voted Republican, the party of Lincoln and the abolutionists. The Democrats were the ones who supported States Rights, the Confederacy, and slavery.

 

[Unclebill]

Well said!

I agree completely Cheyenne. I can't believe that nigger-lover Gore wastes his time trying to push that ethnic crap on the good people of the nation. Who the hell cares what them jungle bunnies think? What makes them think they have a say in government? They're lucky they aren't out picking cotton. The Republicans got it right. Those Democrats thinking every vote counts - we know the truth! Gore's running mate's a goddamn Jew for cryin out loud! We don't support know kikes, no spics, and no fags, no dykes, and certainly no niggers. I can't thank you enough Cheyenne for having the guts to point out what a nigger-lover that Al Gore really is.

Spoken like the true Democrat Socialist/Communist Activist. Offensive, untrue, intended to be divisive, and fradulently and cowardly under cover of an assumed identity intended to cast you as an affiliate of those who despise your ideas and principles (or more appropriately, lack thereof).

Those who actually observe the reality know that it is the Democratic politician who is foremost noticing the color of people's skin, the shape of their eyes, or some other physical trait that is meaningless as a gauge of their character and worth as a person.

It is predominantly the Democratic politician who propagates lies, deception, quotes out of context and deliberate misinformation for the purpose of their own political and economic gain. It is they who exploit divisiveness to achieve power over the lives and property of others. It's not that they care about minorities, it's that they have found that their fearmongering and demagoguery succeed.

Albert A. Gore SENIOR was a racist who voted against the Civil Rights Legislation in the 60's. Albert A. Gore JUNIOR, I'll bet, learned 'at his father's knee' based on the reports in the news of the lawsuits brought by Secret Service agents against Gore for allegedly demanding that the cadre of his security force be limited to a small number of members who were Negro officers.

So my only bit of advice I might offer is get a mind. Then if and when you finally learn to use it, you will be amazed at how little the color of a man's skin or his native langage or the length of his hair is indicative of his character or worth as a human being. And perhaps your English Language skills might improve as well. Oh, well, I can hope, can't I. But peope with your attitude and mentality however miniscule have taught me to expect very little of them and even then they all too often will fall short of the mark.

And, BTW, Gore's running mate is a Democratic hypocrite politician (pardon my redundancy), not a Jew. The fact that he's of Hebrew descent is an irrelevant coincidence.

For Cheyenne, I too usually ignore the trolls but this one is just too egregious a mindless asshole to ignore any longer. And I realize that the mindless of whom this is a classic example won't learn anything or alter their prejudices at all but it leaves me feeling a little better having vented my frustration with such stupidity. There is none so blind as him who will not see.

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by RisiaSkye
I actually think that the non-white tendency to vote Democrat isn't as knee-jerk as people have suggested. Historically, the bulk of the legislation which has worked to overturn racial discrimination, segregation, etc. has been advanced by Democrats. Also, the attention to educational reform (moving away from racially and economically biased testing, etc.) and adequate health care for the poor (a major vote grabber as the Baby Boomers age) are deal-breaking issues for many of those voters. On these counts, Democratic candidates have advocated policies which are more to their advantage.

http://209.185.240.250:80/cgi-bin/l...=http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html

First, let's address the fallacy of support for Civil Rights between the two major parties. The above link contains the entire text if you wish to read it but this excerpt is enlightening if you're interested:

The Republican Party was not so badly split as the Democrats by the civil rights issue. Only one Republican senator participated in the filibuster against the bill. In fact, since 1933, Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats. In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80% of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96% of the votes.

The education reform of which you speak is a means of setting up for failure those for whom preferential treatment is offered as a benefit. The truth is that there is no such thing as racial and economic biased testing. The testing is based on knowledge level discrimination, i. e., if you have been effectively taught the material, your retention of the material determines your score on the test. The capacity for retention (specific recall) is NOT racial or economic. It is individual which is why some people score higher than others. Part of that differential is also a matter of the student's application of effort and the support and assistance he receives outside the classroom, e. g., at home.

There is a cultural influence derived from the attitude of one's peers toward education. When one is ridiculed for success by one's peers, it is demoralizing and very often is detrimental to one's efforts to learn. When you are demeaned and belittled for studying, you tend not to study which brings about your educational failure. In certain subcultures, a good student is an outcast and is disrespected for his achievements. This is more likely the factor of influence at play in what you wish to term 'racially biased testing'.

By 'helping' a student by lowering his admission requirements, you hurt him by putting him into an environment for which he is not equipped or prepared. The end result is a much more difficult task to succeed and more often than not, failure because he cannot sustain the pace necessary. Why? because he requires too much remedial effort. Your 'assistance' has now produced his failure where, had he been admitted to a school with lesser mandates, he may well have succeeded because his preparatory education was adequate for that environment. So the benefit of being admitted to Harvard by lowering the academic requirements for a minority student are in fact setting him up for failure when he might very well have succeeded in City College because the academic standards are not so stringent.

As for the health care issue, what the Democrats are offering is Socialized Medicine. The ultimate end is that this program will destroy the health care system for everybody. Collectivism does not unite, it does not create, it does not foster success; it punishes success, it confiscates the achievements of those who succeed and discourages the efforts to succeed of those entering the work force and it sets the people who produce wealth against those who wish to have their wealth confiscated and distributed as alms. Is this the system you want? If so, move to Canada or Great Britain or China or … Please don't inflict any more collectivism (Communism/Socialism/Fascism) on the honest people of America. We have far too much already. That's why almost half of every dollar I can earn goes to the government in some form of taxation (theft).

Originally posted by RisiaSkye
This is not an evaluation of whether that is good or bad, btw. It is just not any more mystifying than why women tend to vote for the pro-choice candidates more than the pro-life ticket. There are some hot-bed issues that swing the votes.

On this one, the Republicans finally seem to be catching on plus the 'Religious Right' seems to be realizing also that they can't dictate their religious beliefs via legislation.

Originally posted by RisiaSkye
Perhaps this should be a message to those Republicans bitching about losing the minority vote? Hmmm...it couldn't have anything to do with your platform, could it? It must've been the other guy lying. Of course, that's it.

Perhaps in light of the above quoted paragraph you should reassess whose platform is more likely to be supportive of civil rights. Maybe, just maybe, the other guys are lying. But you do trust and believe Albert A. Gore JUNIOR whose father, Albert A. Gore SENIOR voted AGAINST the civil rights act of 1964, right?

While I respect your right to your opinion, I don't respect your opinion unless it's an informed one.

 

[Daytripper]

I love how GWB's entire platform was based on the trusting of the American people and the rollback of the federal government, yet now he and his decide to go to federal court and try to stop the citizens from doing something that is permitted under state law.

I don't hear the republicans complaining about the hand counts in New Mexico where these recounts have given him a majority in the state and 5 additional electoral votes.

I think what they have done will hurt them when they do make it to the white house. They don't practice what they preach.

Also, a vote for Bush was really a vote for his father's friends as we can see right now. Look at his proposed 'cabinet', it's Bush Sr's cabinet. James Baker and Dick Cheney are in the drivers seats now and will be for the next four years. As GW himself has stated, he is a delegator, not an implementer.

 

[talk2024]

I don't know if race is a factor that one can evaluate entirely on its own merit... there are a lot of other factors to consider. If only 50% of the eligible voters actually voted, what is the percentage among blacks? What is the percentage among blacks in the cities as opposed to rural? I had read that GWB had the support of blacks in Texas while running for governor which seemed absolutely unbelievable to me given that state's record with regard to Capital Punishment? Any comments or are my questions in the wrong direction?

A Canadian observer

 

[talk2024]

It is ironic that 90% or more of Black voters vote Democratic now. When first allowed to vote in the aftermath of the Civil War, nearly all Blacks voted Republican, the party of Lincoln and the abolutionists. The Democrats were the ones who supported States Rights, the Confederacy, and slavery.

It's not really ironic... that was over one hundred years ago... times changes, people change, parties change... It would be a nice change of pace of if people would recognise that fact, including the NRA.

 

[Laurel]

I love how GWB's entire platform was based on the trusting of the American people and the rollback of the federal government, yet now he and his decide to go to federal court and try to stop the citizens from doing something that is permitted under state law.

LOL! I've been trying REALLY HARD to stay away from the political stuff, but I had to say that I've been scratching my head over that one as well. How can you claim to distrust Big Government, then run to the Feds to get a state law overturned when it doesn't go your way? Apparently GWB doesn't trust the states as much as he claims.

I'm so sick of people saying "the Democrats want recount after recount after recount..." It's such a blatant lie. Number One: the first recount was AUTOMATICALLY put into play - no one asked for it. Number Two: the current hand recount IS ALLOWED BY LAW. There has been NO excessive recounting. In a race this close, it is expected that both parties would be recounting to get as much advantage as they can. The fact that the Republicans missed the deadline to ask for recounts is indicative of their overconfidence and bad strategy, period. Now, they've dragged the whole thing into court and asked the feds to overturn a state law. It's sad how little respect they have for the process of law.

If the shoe were on the other foot - if it were Gore trying to bypass Florida's laws - he'd be accused of having no respect for our process. It's so strange how people can be so bitterly partisan as to not see what's happening. How can you yell at Gore to not litigate, then support GWB when he does? Makes no sense.

That's it, I'm done. Back to other fun topics...

 

[Daytripper]

Everythig you said Laurel. Another thing: that bulldog Karen Hughes makes Janet Reno look feminine.

 

[Daytripper]

It is ironic that 90% or more of Black voters vote Democratic now. When first allowed to vote in the aftermath of the Civil War, nearly all Blacks voted Republican, the party of Lincoln and the abolutionists. The Democrats were the ones who supported States Rights, the Confederacy, and slavery.

It's not really ironic... that was over one hundred years ago... times changes, people change, parties change... It would be a nice change of pace of if people would recognise that fact, including the NRA.

Hahahaha!
Hm, let's think about it. When the Democrats supported States Rights, the Confederacy, and slavery, the Blacks supported teh Repulicans. Now that the Republicans support States Rights, the Confederacy, and don't support Affirmative Action programs, the Blacks vote Democrat. Where's the irony there, I'm missing it, seems straightforward to me.

 

[Guest]

Listen I know he just wants this darn lock box thing so he can put the votes in... I trust the people. He trust the government.
In Texas we hand count on re-counts - I signed it but them Florida people they got too much sun in their eyes and they don't see as well as we do in Texas. So they got to stop this counting stuff right now! I won - Jeb told me he would get me Florida and he did - I won...Ya here me I won damit...

 

[Easy Boy]

Bush's appeal to blacks? What appeal?

What a laugh! Remember the South Carolina primary? Smarting from his upset loss in New Hampshire, Bush retreated to friendly ground, the campus of racist Bob Jones University. He welcomed the chance to speak from their podium.

Well, even if you don't remember that, I expect that millions of black voters did last Tuesday.

Really, Cheyenne, do you believe everything you read in the Washington Times?

 

[Laurel]

OMG! I forgot about that...it was a big controversy and he was totally unapologetic. WTF is wrong with the Republican party that they'd pick a dope like GWB over McCain?

Bush can have the election. Here are my new predictions: Bush and his cronies will continue to the block the lawful hand recount, and will win by a sliver margin. He will have a lackluster four years in office, in which facts about his insider trading deals and other skeletons will come out to haunt him. In 2004, the Republicans will push GWB aside and run McCain in his place. The Dems, if smart, will pick Bradley. THEN we will have a REAL choice.

 

[Unclebill]

OMG! I forgot about that...it was a big controversy and he was totally unapologetic. WTF is wrong with the Republican party that they'd pick a dope like GWB over McCain?

Why does everyone seem to be in awe of this arrogant, self-serving asshole? Does anyone remember the Keating Five? Alan Cranston, John McCain, John Glen, Diminici (sp?) and one other asshole whose name I can't remember?

In short, he's a criminal. Maybe not to the degree of Clinton or Gore, but still he's severely handicapped in the ethics department.

Maybe he was a 'War Hero' but that doesn't cut any ice with me when he's also crooked. There's an old Navy saying, "One Aw-Shit cancels all previously awarded Attaboys" and being a crook is a BIG Aw-Shit!