What do you hate in a story?

[NoJo]

Men are good at fixating on detail. This is a cause of exasperation, admiration, disgust, bewilderment, envy and pity in women.

I, for example, have a pussy fetish. I can just be down there for ages, just me and pussy. I focus on the hole, but rarely the whole, when it comes to sex. Which I know loses me a lot of points.

Are you a leg or a breast man? A foot man? A lip man? Do you practice sexual synecdoche? Or do you take it further? Are you a stockings man? A cleavage man? A high-heels man? A lipstick man? Are you into some kind of weirdo sexual metonymy?

Yes I am, to all of these, on different days. So fuck you. Or even better, fuck your hairy armpit.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Men are good at fixating on detail. This is a cause of exasperation, admiration, disgust, bewilderment, envy and pity in women.

I, for example, have a pussy fetish. I can just be down there for ages, just me and pussy. I focus on the hole, but rarely the whole, when it comes to sex. Which I know loses me a lot of points.

Are you a leg or a breast man? A foot man? A lip man? Do you practice sexual synecdoche? Or do you take it further? Are you a stockings man? A cleavage man? A high-heels man? A lipstick man? Are you into some kind of weirdo sexual metonymy?

Yes I am, to all of these, on different days. So fuck you. Or even better, fuck your hairy armpit.

•Women are twice as likely to experience anxiety as men. Of people with phobias or OCD, about 60% are female. (The Office for National Statistics Psychiatric Morbidity report, 2001)

Females are always more obsessed and compulsed.

 

[le_kitty]

"Fetish can also refer to sexual interest in specific activities in common discourse." -- wikipedia

There's a very specific definition, and there's a broader definition of common usage, as in, "he has a fetish for watching Soprano's reruns."

Sexual fetishism encompasses a wide range, from the specificity of a nonliving object to a man always wanting his nipples licked to ONLY reading Romance stories.

I supposed I'm thinking along the lines of KINK or TASTE, but neither of those are strong enough. FETISH implies a much stronger and usually unconscious bond between the subject and the object. I choose to use it because I like the compulsive aspect it conveys. A kink you can take on or off, dabble in, go through a "phase," a fetish not so much.

If someone can only get off if you work their kink, I would call that a fetish. Its what is inescapable and necessary to your arousal and orgasm vs. "I think I'll try a candy bar today, and a piece of fruit tomorrow."

Taste I don't like because that implies too much conscious choice. Tastes come and go, but a fetish is usually permanent and driven. It's what you can't get rid of.

My impression of fetish has always been something that leans out towards the unusual. Usually associated with the sexual.

I think to consider reading only romance novels a sexual fetish is going a little too far.

A kink you can take on or off, dabble in, go through a "phase," a fetish not so much.

That makes me think though.

Regarding choice... if I have a taste for tall men with broad shoulders... is that a conscious choice? I can choose to pick the guy without those physical attributes, but my taste has not changed. But... to call that a fetish might be pushing it, especially when science can explain why I have that preference to begin with. Then again, I am sure science can explain why someone has unusual sexual fetishes.

 

[SecondCircle]

Doesn't seem to be a consensus on what constitutes a fetish. Hmm.

Definitions aside, does this affect what you asked Carnal? Like where you asking about tastes or kinks or specific fetishes like foot fetishes?

To me, there's a distinction right there in that question. If you write a story that focuses heavily on say, foot fetish... it's specific enough to appeal to only those with a foot fetish. Whereas oral sex could be a fetish if taken to extreme, but it's more a common sort of sexual behavior that could appeal to more than just those that go extreme with oral.

I guess in that sense I agree with le_kitty. A fetish isn't something usually associated with sex, or is unusual or uncommon to associate with sex. But when you go there, someone's gonna be along to say "But who decides what's unusual for sex" and "but oral is a fetish in XYZ Country" and so on.

Bleh. In any case, I think catering to a very specific kink or fetish or fetishism or fetishisishist is fine. No you won't win ALL the reader's hearts because it may not be their taste. But there is a readership for anything.

 

[le_kitty]

But there is a readership for anything.

Bingo

 

[SecondCircle]

Well if we're talking like that I'll offer up the BDSM category which in general is a haven for non con the author doesn't want to call non con and a plethora of people writing who obviously have no clue what's involved other than bondage and women being beaten.

Its why I stopped writing there five years ago and have only published one story since and that one was a fuck you challenge piece to a poser.

In fact to cross over your post about fetish only on lit does femdom, which is a huge part of BDSM(everyone has heard of a dominatrix no matter how green you are) plays like crap in BDSM because the people there think its all about women being submissive(or beaten 80% of the time) and where it does well is fetish. Femdom is an aspect of BDSM not a fetish in the real world, but...

Anyway what I learned with BDSM and looking at your opinion on fetish/kink is that there's two things at play. One, what's in the real world that we have experienced and have first hand knowledge of and the other; "what's here". Seeing we're on here its just easier to go by what flies here and decide to like it or not. Pointing it out and arguing it pretty much go nowhere.

Best example of all is a site that puts reluctance with non consent, as big of an apples and oranges difference as you can find mixed together for convenience.

It is what it is.

I keep thinking of this and I can't seem to grasp the disparity you seem to be highlighting between what is a fetish and BDSM.

But, eh, rather than add another set of rails to this thread, would you be interested in discussing the reading and writing of BDSM in it's own thread? There are other points on the category I'd see addressed.

Or would anyone else for that matter?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My impression of fetish has always been something that leans out towards the unusual. Usually associated with the sexual.

I think to consider reading only romance novels a sexual fetish is going a little too far.

A kink you can take on or off, dabble in, go through a "phase," a fetish not so much.

That makes me think though.

Regarding choice... if I have a taste for tall men with broad shoulders... is that a conscious choice? I can choose to pick the guy without those physical attributes, but my taste has not changed. But... to call that a fetish might be pushing it, especially when science can explain why I have that preference to begin with. Then again, I am sure science can explain why someone has unusual sexual fetishes.

You just answered it. A fetish is anything but copulation for babies. It gets you off but isn't procreational. A fetish arouses and excites you, that's all it does.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Fetish, kink, taste . . . I get the point. Whatever word you will. Fetish does it for me.

I'm not sure what you call it the moment you start having divisions and divides and "categories."

Most people can get with Romance and Love.

A lot of people with leave the building with Incest and Non-Con and BDSM, the more "Fetish-y" and "Kink-y" it gets. (Unless you toss in a HEALTHY does of luv and convince them it's all about either Romance or a good story or preferably both at once).

Then you get even more and more specific with "a pair of silk stockings" and you lose less and less readers, and closer to a technical definition of a fetish.

That's the general story at any rate. I'm not sure I agree with it.

 

[Hypoxia]

A lot of people with leave the building with Incest and Non-Con and BDSM, the more "Fetish-y" and "Kink-y" it gets. (Unless you toss in a HEALTHY does of luv and convince them it's all about either Romance or a good story or preferably both at once).

A lot of the LIT audience is here specifically for Incest tales. Those tend to be the most-read stories. Not my kink but that crowd is who I mostly write for. I'm personally not attracted to NonCon, BDSM, GM, BBC-IR, and many kinks, but I may include such elements in my stories because, well, *someone* will appreciate them.

 

[lovecraft68]

I keep thinking of this and I can't seem to grasp the disparity you seem to be highlighting between what is a fetish and BDSM.

But, eh, rather than add another set of rails to this thread, would you be interested in discussing the reading and writing of BDSM in it's own thread? There are other points on the category I'd see addressed.

Or would anyone else for that matter?

I'll be totally honest with you. I won't get involved in a public discussion because although there's some people who got their game on with the topic, they're the minority and I won't give myself a headache with some of the others.

I will however, be willing to discuss any of your points or ideas in a Pm.

I'd also suggest to anyone really interested in that discussion there is an entire forum for BDSM discussion covering anything and everything.

Hit and miss, like anything else, but it does not take long to figure out who's on point and who is talking out of their ass.

I do fine the BDSM forum to be more indicative of BDSM than story side by far.

As to fetish/BDSM my only real remark has nothing to do with real life, but only here and that is that femdom-anything female in control-is as big a part of BDSM as men on top in real life.

But here with a few exceptions it does not do anywhwere near as well in the BDSM category as it does in fetish.

My theory? BDSM here has grown to be one sided, everyone is only interested int he women being submissive or outright abused, its become the home of too many 'real men' who cower at the thought of a woman being anything but subjugated. It shrinks their penis and hurts their male ego.

Now in fetish? The true real men are there. The ones that can admit they like women in control or getting cum on their faces, or bi-sex or panty sniffing or anything else. They don't worry about an image or how they look, they want fun and aren't ashamed of what they consider fun.

In short BDSM here has become misogyny haven which is not true of the real lifestyle where you're a top or a bottom or a switch and its all good no matter what gender you are.

You can see it in the BDSM forum. These asshole guys who come charging in thinking because a woman may be submissive in bed she's a push over and they can abuse them and play 'dom' on the boards. That type is heavily populating the BDSM stories and what works and doesn't there.

So as you can guess I get hot on the topic because I loathe real men anyway so I don't waste time. I know my game and have no one to prove that to except the person involved in it which is my wife only these days.

I won't argue with testosterone driven fools(that would break in an hour if it took that long at the hands of some women I know) and people who think fifty shades is accurate.

If anyone wants to brand me a BDSM snob or any less flattering term tey can feel free to do so, again I have nothing to prove.

 

[Ewobbit]

~snip~

Regarding choice... if I have a taste for tall men with broad shoulders... is that a conscious choice? ~snip~QUOTE]

http://www.yourtango.com/2013200986/dating-love-reasons-date-short-man

Just thought you should know.

 

[le_kitty]

~snip~

Regarding choice... if I have a taste for tall men with broad shoulders... is that a conscious choice? ~snip~QUOTE]

http://www.yourtango.com/2013200986/dating-love-reasons-date-short-man

Just thought you should know.

lol, Ewobbit,

Not intending to plaster my personal life here, but my ex was short. (No, break up did not happen because of height)

And yes, he was far better at the whole seduction thing, than the taller broad shouldered guy I tried to start seeing after.

 

[SecondCircle]

I'll be totally honest with you. I won't get involved in a public discussion because although there's some people who got their game on with the topic, they're the minority and I won't give myself a headache with some of the others.

I will however, be willing to discuss any of your points or ideas in a Pm.

I'd also suggest to anyone really interested in that discussion there is an entire forum for BDSM discussion covering anything and everything.

Hit and miss, like anything else, but it does not take long to figure out who's on point and who is talking out of their ass.

I do fine the BDSM forum to be more indicative of BDSM than story side by far.

As to fetish/BDSM my only real remark has nothing to do with real life, but only here and that is that femdom-anything female in control-is as big a part of BDSM as men on top in real life.

But here with a few exceptions it does not do anywhwere near as well in the BDSM category as it does in fetish.

My theory? BDSM here has grown to be one sided, everyone is only interested int he women being submissive or outright abused, its become the home of too many 'real men' who cower at the thought of a woman being anything but subjugated. It shrinks their penis and hurts their male ego.

Now in fetish? The true real men are there. The ones that can admit they like women in control or getting cum on their faces, or bi-sex or panty sniffing or anything else. They don't worry about an image or how they look, they want fun and aren't ashamed of what they consider fun.

In short BDSM here has become misogyny haven which is not true of the real lifestyle where you're a top or a bottom or a switch and its all good no matter what gender you are.

You can see it in the BDSM forum. These asshole guys who come charging in thinking because a woman may be submissive in bed she's a push over and they can abuse them and play 'dom' on the boards. That type is heavily populating the BDSM stories and what works and doesn't there.

So as you can guess I get hot on the topic because I loathe real men anyway so I don't waste time. I know my game and have no one to prove that to except the person involved in it which is my wife only these days.

I won't argue with testosterone driven fools(that would break in an hour if it took that long at the hands of some women I know) and people who think fifty shades is accurate.

If anyone wants to brand me a BDSM snob or any less flattering term tey can feel free to do so, again I have nothing to prove.

Hm. Pity. Though you seemed to have discussed it in detail enough, I suppose.

I only brought it up because of questions I had for a particular story idea. Perhaps that's better suited for PM. And reasons I had for not approaching the topic in the BDSM forum were part of said questions. That, and it pertained to actual writing of the genre and other eh, more authorly stuff.

!! My apologies. I've kept the thread somewhat off topic.

 

[LadyVer]

Pages of repetitive sex scenes with moronic dialogue that stops a great story from moving forward.

 

[oggbashan]

My last word on fetish in this thread:

Femdom, even mild femdom, seems to produce extreme reactions from some readers. They seem threatened by the idea that a woman could be the dominant partner, even in a loving relationship.

There isn't really a suitable category for femdom so I tend to put it in fetish.

 

[oggbashan]

Pages of repetitive sex scenes with moronic dialogue that stops a great story from moving forward.

If it is "a great story" then the sex scenes should be integral and essential.

If they are not, it isn't "a great story".

 

[ishtat]

I dislike the complete absence of humour. I'm not looking for jokes or gags or any overtly conscious humour. Numerous stories on Lit proceed in an atmosphere of unrelieved minor misery - it's tedious. They read like the assembly instructions on a purchase from IKEA.

There are wry observations to be made, innocuous banter, the small things which bring a smile in every day life can also give a story an added dimension, and more particularly of characters. But don't overdo it - because I dislike that just as much.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Pages of repetitive sex scenes with moronic dialogue that stops a great story from moving forward.

I pay attention to what I read. None of the porn writers from the 30s on write non-stop sex, back in the 20s non-stop was common where a Brit or American went to a bordello in France and pollinated all the flowers. But about the same time the best American writers made sex incidental though Hammett wrote one tale with a busy orgy in it in the 20s.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Maybe I should talk about my reality fetish.

Oooh. This. Even for stories in fantasy settings, I spend more time fact-checking in Wikipedia et al, than I do writing. I'll fuss for an hour fact checking aspects of plants, mechanical devices, points of history... even if it ends up a passing reference in a story. It has to be right, or it's...WRONG! *cue screams of horror*

So, no surprise, as soon as a story mentions something I have expertise in, and gets it radically wrong, the story is ruined or me. Incredibly irritating examples are password prompts that give hints when you get close (Watchmen comic book series - the whole plot resolution hinged on it); current-tech computers that take forever to do simple things or instantly solve vast NP-complete problems; poisoning people with the "lead" in a pencil core; complete misunderstandings about cryptography. I see stuff that five minutes in wikipedia would have straightened out.

 

[Sammael Bard]

I'm not surprised to see such varied opinions. I expected that. I'm glad to find none of the "stories should be like this" comments here, which is a great indicator of sensibility and maturity.

I just wanted to add some more about short erotic stories/strokers.

I think it's an art in itself. I enjoy reading long, drawn out stories with great plot, great character development and great writing but I'm equally awed by stories that tell the whole thing in just 30 pages. Compressing all of that character development, plot, blah, blah and blah in 30 pages takes a lot of skill. Few stories ever manage that level of creativity but it's great to find such pieces once in a while.

Also, I've found that I tend to ignore the grammar if I'm here on the sole purpose of getting off. Sir Grammar can go to hell for those few minutes. Bad grammar in longer stories is disappointing, especially when the plot is good. Then I really want to rewrite the story in my own way... at least I'll get some satisfaction instead of wincing at every grammatical error that is hurled at me.

Anyhoo, great points everyone. It's refreshing to read all those different views.

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm equally awed by stories that tell the whole thing in just 30 pages.

30 screens? 30 Word pages? 30 LIT pages? The latter are over 110k words, novel-length. Not all pages are equal.

I'm most impressed with a fully-developed story in one LIT page, ~3700 words.

 

[Sammael Bard]

30 screens? 30 Word pages? 30 LIT pages? The latter are over 110k words, novel-length. Not all pages are equal.

I'm most impressed with a fully-developed story in one LIT page, ~3700 words.

Oops.

I meant 30 Word pages with font size 12, which equals almost 3 Lit pages. I don't know if I should assign a word count because it varies on the spaces and frequency of para breaks.

I find stories around lengths of 30 Word pages (font size 12) to be satisfying. Not too short, not too long either. Just long enough to tell the complete story with satisfaction. Some are even less than that, but a finding good story of that length is ... rare.

 

[rjordan]

I'm most impressed with a fully-developed story in one LIT page, ~3700 words.

I'm in awe of those who can go on and on for 10, 20, 30 chapters and admit they haven't written the ending and have no idea what's going to happen next.

However...I never read them.

A well-crafted Lit page or 2 leaves me smiling most times.

rj

 

[IvyMae]

What bothers me most is the complete lack of detail when it comes to the introduction of the story.

 

[GforGraham]

What bothers me most is the complete lack of detail when it comes to the introduction of the story.

IM, what do you mean by this?