What Century Is This, Anyhow?

[Boxlicker101]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/kentucky-church-bans-interracial-marriage-150009470.html

I have never been near this church and, if I had, I would not be a member. For one thing, I wouldn't want to be and, for another thing, they wouldn't have me anyhow.

This might actually be contrary to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

 

[RjThoughts]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/kentucky-church-bans-interracial-marriage-150009470.html

I have never been near this church and, if I had, I would not be a member. For one thing, I wouldn't want to be and, for another thing, they wouldn't have me anyhow.

This might actually be contrary to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

As horrible and outrageous as it sounds, churches can deny marrying anyone they want. I'm not sure of any legal recourse the couple may have, but they could go my Catholic church here in upstate NY and be married, only after some counseling and "making a donation to the church, say about $100." Hell, there are enough widows and widowers willing to serve as family and witnesses

 

[3113]

A church can be as sexist/racist/bias as it wants to be

This might actually be contrary to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Alas, no. Just like the Catholic Church can refuse to marry a Catholic and a Jew, or, for that matter, allow a divorced man and woman to marry within the church or be married by a priest, so, too, can this church refuse to allow blacks and whites to marry. This fact is the contrary argument, by the way, to those insisting (ironically!) that gay marriage will infringe on "freedom of religion" by forcing ministers and priests to marry gay couples against their religion (never mind that they're trying to force their religious beliefs on gays by preventing them from marrying).

Something like this, obnoxious as it is, goes to show that a church can set whatever rules it likes about who can and can marry within it's doors, and/or be married by its minister. What it cannot do is make this a law that applies to everyone no matter what their religion is. Nor can a justice of the peace, working for the public and taking public money to marry people, refuse to marry anyone just because it goes against his religion.

Either he's a private minister who only officiates weddings at his church and/or for members of his faith, or he works for the state and must not let his personal religious beliefs interfere with treating everyone equally. i.e. marrying anyone who can, by law, marry and pay the fee for license, etc.

So, if the minister of this church were, say, a clerk at a courthouse who refused to give this couple a license, or if he was a judge who would marry any white couple or any black couple but not an interracial couple, then you're right. It would be against the law because he's working for the state and sworn to uphold that law. But so long as it's a minister upholding his faith within his church, there's nothing that can be done. Religions can be as exclusive and sexist/racist/bias as they like.

 

[sr71plt]

RJThoughts is correct. This has no baring on Civil Rights laws. Churches and private clubs aren't obligated to be racially or gender equal. This should just be a strong signal to the two banned to find another church.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Alas, no. Just like the Catholic Church can refuse to marry a Catholic and a Jew, or, for that matter, allow a divorced man and woman to marry within the church or be married by a priest, so, too, can this church refuse to allow blacks and whites to marry. This fact is the contrary argument, by the way, to those insisting (ironically!) that gay marriage will infringe on "freedom of religion" by forcing ministers and priests to marry gay couples against their religion (never mind that they're trying to force their religious beliefs on gays by preventing them from marrying).

Something like this, obnoxious as it is, goes to show that a church can set whatever rules it likes about who can and can marry within it's doors, and/or be married by its minister. What it cannot do is make this a law that applies to everyone no matter what their religion is. Nor can a justice of the peace, working for the public and taking public money to marry people, refuse to marry anyone just because it goes against his religion.

Either he's a private minister who only officiates weddings at his church and/or for members of his faith, or he works for the state and must not let his personal religious beliefs interfere with treating everyone equally. i.e. marrying anyone who can, by law, marry and pay the fee for license, etc.

So, if the minister of this church were, say, a clerk at a courthouse who refused to give this couple a license, or if he was a judge who would marry any white couple or any black couple but not an interracial couple, then you're right. It would be against the law because he's working for the state and sworn to uphold that law. But so long as it's a minister upholding his faith within his church, there's nothing that can be done. Religions can be as exclusive and sexist/racist/bias as they like.

I realize it would not be illegal to refuse marriage ceremonies to mixed race or same sex couples, but I am unsure about membership in the church. Under the 1964 act, "Public accommodations" may not refuse service because of race, etc. If a mixed race couple entered a restaurant or wanted to stay at a hotel, they could not be refused based on race. However, I believe there are partial exceptions in matters of religion.

In any event, I would want nothing to do with this church for any purpose.

 

[sr71plt]

A church isn't a public accommodation. It's a private club.

Sure, it's a church not to have anything to do with, but considering what you write and where you post, I'm surprised by your restricted view of personal freedoms.

 

[PennLady]

I realize it would not be illegal to refuse marriage ceremonies to mixed race or same sex couples, but I am unsure about membership in the church. Under the 1964 act, "Public accommodations" may not refuse service because of race, etc. If a mixed race couple entered a restaurant or wanted to stay at a hotel, they could not be refused based on race. However, I believe there are partial exceptions in matters of religion.

In any event, I would want nothing to do with this church for any purpose.

I'm just guessing here, but -- I think it's possible a church doesn't qualify as a "public accommodation." I would imagine that applies to state or federally run facilities. This is not the case with a church (for which, I think, we should be glad) -- separation of church and state and what not. A state cannot tell a church who to admit or not.

In the Catholic Church, you cannot (or are not supposed to, however you want to look at it) receive Communion if you are divorced but your marriage not annulled. The state cannot tell them to do it differently.

I agree, I would want nothing to do with this church, although the article does say the new pastor pretty much rescinded what the previous one said, so that's a step.

 

[lovecraft68]

Separation of Church and State says it all. As does freedom of religion. A church's doctrine can be whatever the hell it wants it to be. They are not infringing on anyone's rights because no one has to go there and drink their kool aid.

 

[RjThoughts]

I'm just guessing here, but -- I think it's possible a church doesn't qualify as a "public accommodation." I would imagine that applies to state or federally run facilities. This is not the case with a church (for which, I think, we should be glad) -- separation of church and state and what not. A state cannot tell a church who to admit or not.

In the Catholic Church, you cannot (or are not supposed to, however you want to look at it) receive Communion if you are divorced but your marriage not annulled. The state cannot tell them to do it differently.

I agree, I would want nothing to do with this church, although the article does say the new pastor pretty much rescinded what the previous one said, so that's a step.

It might be 2011, but there are still religious-types out there living in 1811, even 1911.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Wow...that's just weird. And horrible. I have trouble with a lot of churches as it is, but this just makes me want to stay far far away from any established organized religion and make up my own mash up.

 

[lovecraft68]

Wow...that's just weird. And horrible. I have trouble with a lot of churches as it is, but this just makes me want to stay far far away from any established organized religion and make up my own mash up.

Like I tell people all the time, Faith is faith, but religion is business.

Especially the "Christian" churches. They all believe in the same God, but are competing with each other for whose plate you're going to put your money into.

Which brand will you wear so to speak?

God said "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there also shall I be"

Yet the Catholics told my wife that they would not Marry us outdoors because God was not present there as he would be in the Church. The Church also wouldn't get their $500.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Like I tell people all the time, Faith is faith, but religion is business.

Especially the "Christian" churches. They all believe in the same God, but are competing with each other for whose plate you're going to put your money into.

Which brand will you wear so to speak?

God said "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there also shall I be"

Yet the Catholics told my wife that they would not Marry us outdoors because God was not present there as he would be in the Church. The Church also wouldn't get their $500.

Though it's not my first priority these days, I'd like to eventually set up an altar for my own personal use. I'd have the Virgin Mary, Buddha, various Hindu deities, the Greek gods and goddesses, a portrait of Desmond Tutu, and Xena.

And that's my religion.

 

[sr71plt]

Wow...that's just weird. And horrible. I have trouble with a lot of churches as it is, but this just makes me want to stay far far away from any established organized religion and make up my own mash up.

This isn't exactly an established church. "One bad element damns the whole" generalizing like this will lead to you hiding in a closet and not being involved in any organization or any aspect of society.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

This isn't exactly an established church. "One bad element damns the whole" generalizing like this will lead to you hiding in a closet and not being involved in any organization or any aspect of society.

I'm extremely involved in society. I don't live my life hiding in a box. But the majority of Christianity and "Christianity" I have personally experienced has just been negative.

Love is the way.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm extremely involved in society. I don't live my life hiding in a box. But the majority of Christianity and "Christianity" I have personally experienced has just been negative.

Love is the way.

My wife being a Sicilian raised in Boston was of course brought up Catholic. I of course have no christian beliefs, but aside from a few debates, never cared what she believed.

After awhile (and some of the shit we went through so I could marry her, in her church and make her happy) she lost patience with the Catholics and has been searching ever since.

Recently she started attending the "since of mind" church. It's sort of a catchall that embraces everything.

They believe we are all one and people like Gandhi and Christ were human, but ascended masters.

It's interesting, but they do not believe in any form of hell or punishment, which makes me shake my head.

But it is all about embracing one another and love for your fellow man. Maybe you want to check into it.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm extremely involved in society. I don't live my life hiding in a box. But the majority of Christianity and "Christianity" I have personally experienced has just been negative.

Love is the way.

Fine. It's your choice, of course. And you've chosen to paint all with the same paintbrush.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

My wife being a Sicilian raised in Boston was of course brought up Catholic. I of course have no christian beliefs, but aside from a few debates, never cared what she believed.

After awhile (and some of the shit we went through so I could marry her, in her church and make her happy) she lost patience with the Catholics and has been searching ever since.

Recently she started attending the "since of mind" church. It's sort of a catchall that embraces everything.

They believe we are all one and people like Gandhi and Christ were human, but ascended masters.

It's interesting, but they do not believe in any form of hell or punishment, which makes me shake my head.

But it is all about embracing one another and love for your fellow man. Maybe you want to check into it.

That sounds interesting, but I'm really quite happy in my own spirituality while at the same time exploring houses of worship and studying them just because it's enjoyable. I wouldn't know what to call myself, but polytheistic comes close.

I also embrace the HOH8 campaign and Hate Free Friday and really try to live by it.

 

[lovecraft68]

For me it is all right here. Despite its stigma Satanists are far from the goat killing, blood drinking orgy attending maniacs Hollywood portrays us as.

read through, you'll be surprised at how basic it is.

The Nine Satanic Statements[11]

1) Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2)Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3)Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5)Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6)Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7)Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
8)Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9) Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

The Nine Satanic Sins

1)Stupidity
2) Pretentiousness
3)Solipsism
4)Self-deceit
5) Herd Conformity
6) Lack of Perspective
7) Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8) Counterproductive Pride
9)Lack of Aesthetics

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1) Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2)Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3) When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4)If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5)Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6)Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7)Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8)Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9) Do not harm little children.
10) Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11)When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.


Personally I love number 11. But all very basic, there are no weekly services and no "dues" to pay this is simply the way to live your life.

I would also like to see Rules #1 and 2 applied to the GB on a daily basis.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Fine. It's your choice, of course. And you've chosen to paint all with the same paintbrush.

No, I haven't. I've had good moments in some of my experiences. But overall, I'm not comfortable with Christianity for myself. I think it's important for everyone to follow the beliefs that are important to them and just as important for others to keep an open mind and remember that love and light are most important, not some fight over whose religion reigns supreme

I respect the fact that this church has chosen to make clear its beliefs and then follow them. I just don't agree with it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Fine. It's your choice, of course. And you've chosen to paint all with the same paintbrush.

Oh look Pilot here you are NOT starting an argument with someone. I guess she must have somehow insulted you without the rest of us seeing it.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

For me it is all right here. Despite its stigma Satanists are far from the goat killing, blood drinking orgy attending maniacs Hollywood portrays us as.

read through, you'll be surprised at how basic it is.

The Nine Satanic Statements[11]

1) Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2)Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3)Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5)Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6)Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7)Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
8)Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9) Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

The Nine Satanic Sins

1)Stupidity
2) Pretentiousness
3)Solipsism
4)Self-deceit
5) Herd Conformity
6) Lack of Perspective
7) Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8) Counterproductive Pride
9)Lack of Aesthetics

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1) Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2)Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3) When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4)If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5)Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6)Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7)Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8)Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9) Do not harm little children.
10) Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11)When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.


Personally I love number 11. But all very basic, there are no weekly services and no "dues" to pay this is simply the way to live your life.

I would also like to see Rules #1 and 2 applied to the GB on a daily basis.

I really enjoy some of these, particularly 3, 5, 6, 9, and 10 in the Satanic Rules of the Earth. But all of it is very primal and calls to mind the nuances and flavors of ancient times. Thank you for sharing that with me!

 

[lovecraft68]

I really enjoy some of these, particularly 3, 5, 6, 9, and 10 in the Satanic Rules of the Earth. But all of it is very primal and calls to mind the nuances and flavors of ancient times. Thank you for sharing that with me!

Your welcome. It is very primal, and ancient as you say, but also very simplistic.

The negative side is for the most part it is a bit selfish, and really stresses a "Me and mine" mentality, but it works.

To me the Psychic vampire theory is huge. Everyone has these people in their lives and inevitably lets them bring them down.

Most importantly this is the basics in a faith that allows you to create your won rules and be true to yourself rather than the perceptions others try to set forth for you.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Your welcome. It is very primal, and ancient as you say, but also very simplistic.

The negative side is for the most part it is a bit selfish, and really stresses a "Me and mine" mentality, but it works.

To me the Psychic vampire theory is huge. Everyone has these people in their lives and inevitably lets them bring them down.

Most importantly this is the basics in a faith that allows you to create your won rules and be true to yourself rather than the perceptions others try to set forth for you.

I like primal and ancient. If I could travel back in time as an anthropologist and live undercover, I absolutely would.

Everyone I know has (or has had) a vamp in their life, but some don't realize it. I know I've experienced it too.

 

[TE999]

For me it is all right here. Despite its stigma Satanists are far from the goat killing, blood drinking orgy attending maniacs Hollywood portrays us as.

read through, you'll be surprised at how basic it is.

The Nine Satanic Statements[11]

1) Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2)Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3)Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5)Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6)Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7)Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
8)Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9) Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

The Nine Satanic Sins

1)Stupidity
2) Pretentiousness
3)Solipsism
4)Self-deceit
5) Herd Conformity
6) Lack of Perspective
7) Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8) Counterproductive Pride
9)Lack of Aesthetics

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1) Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2)Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3) When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4)If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5)Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6)Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7)Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8)Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9) Do not harm little children.
10) Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11)When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.


Personally I love number 11. But all very basic, there are no weekly services and no "dues" to pay this is simply the way to live your life.

I would also like to see Rules #1 and 2 applied to the GB on a daily basis.

Heh! It would seem that Ol' Scratch needs to start his own church; The First Church of Common Sense.

It sure beats hell out of that 'There'll be pie in the sky by and by' nonsense. (pun intended)

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Heh! It would seem that Ol' Scratch needs to start his own church; The First Church of Common Sense.

It sure beats hell out of that 'There'll be pie in the sky by and by' nonsense. (pun intended)

Pie? Is it strawberry rhubarb??