What are you 'entitled' to?

[coachdb18]

Most sane Americans know they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and nothing more. That view in politics has seemingly been turned on its head, now with many believing the government owes you EVERYTHING, cradle to grave, and should (nee MUST) tax to the max, and seemingly go $16T plus in debt for suchh beliefs, costs be damned.

To what are Americans 'entitled'?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Most sane Americans know they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and nothing more. That view in politics has seemingly been turned on its head, now with many believing the government owes you EVERYTHING, cradle to grave, and should (nee MUST) tax to the max, and seemingly go $16T plus in debt for suchh beliefs, costs be damned.

To what are Americans 'entitled'?

Interesting debate. You go first. What are Americans entitled to?

 

[rosco rathbone]

This argument was lost by the lezzy fair people nearly a hundred years ago. Move on.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most sane Americans know they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and nothing more. That view in politics has seemingly been turned on its head, now with many believing the government owes you EVERYTHING, cradle to grave, and should (nee MUST) tax to the max, and seemingly go $16T plus in debt for suchh beliefs, costs be damned.

To what are Americans 'entitled'?

Yore entitled to whatever you can get by right of conquest. And dats whar we iz dese days.

 

[KingOrfeo]

This argument was lost by the lezzy fair people nearly a hundred years ago. Move on.

Agreed. It's not a question of who's "entitled" to what, it's a question of what's a good idea. E.g., the experience of other countries proves universal health-care is a good idea.

 

[coachdb18]

Yore entitled to whatever you can get by right of conquest. And dats whar we iz dese days.

So, in the sense that if you can overwhelm the opposition, then you're entitled to whatever you can take, even if it dooms the country, others, and is clearly the result of domination? Dirty tricks don't matter (think Watergate), should we apologize now to Richard Nixon, since he was 'entitled' to the information he got in the breakin because he and his operatives were bold enough to just 'take it'?

 

[BotanyBoy]

So, in the sense that if you can overwhelm the opposition, then you're entitled to whatever you can take, even if it dooms the country, others, and is clearly the result of domination? Dirty tricks don't matter (think Watergate), should we apologize now to Richard Nixon, since he was 'entitled' to the information he got in the breakin because he and his operatives were bold enough to just 'take it'?

Obviously not....he got caught.

 

[TexasWife25]

Depends on who you ask and when you ask it. Just about every major program in the US has been hit with this similar argument when it was purposed. I suspect in 10-15 years Americans will all agree that everyone is entitled to healthcare.

 

[blobfish]

I am entitled to three meals a day and one hour of exercise.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So, in the sense that if you can overwhelm the opposition, then you're entitled to whatever you can take, even if it dooms the country, others, and is clearly the result of domination? Dirty tricks don't matter (think Watergate), should we apologize now to Richard Nixon, since he was 'entitled' to the information he got in the breakin because he and his operatives were bold enough to just 'take it'?

Jes cuz all deh wooves suade deh rabbit tuh jine em fuh lunch dont mean deh menus diffrent.

 

[coachdb18]

Jes cuz all deh wooves suade deh rabbit tuh jine em fuh lunch dont mean deh menus diffrent.

Is there anything we are NOT entitled to? Can an argument be made for entitlement to ANYTHING? to EVERYTHING? Is there any such thing as responsibility for the cost of an 'entitlement'?

 

[TexasWife25]

I dont usually just c&p the whole article, but this once I shall make an exception




Health Care Will Become a Right, Just Like Water
By Alex Marshall Jul 10, 2012 4:35 PM CT


Having your heart operated on is different from getting a glass of water or a basic education. Yet they are related in that government once didn’t provide them for us.
As Americans wait for President Barack Obama’s health-care plan to be carried out, they might find some perspective, if not solace, in the history of the many national debates over what services government should offer.
The track record over the centuries is that government establishes a higher and higher baseline of essential services for its citizens. This has proved not only good for the people; it has proved beneficial for business, because healthy, educated people make better employers, employees, entrepreneurs and customers.
In the 18th and 19th centuries, New York and other big cities suffered from regular and debilitating epidemics of cholera and typhoid. The lack of sewers and clean water was suspected as a cause. A proposal in 1798 for a public water system failed after being undermined by Aaron Burr, the future vice president, and his Manhattan Company. The city opened its 41-mile Croton Aqueduct in 1842. Many leading citizens and businesses had opposed the expensive system as an unwise assumption of government debt and a nanny-state intrusion into what was regarded as a private responsibility.
Once in place though, it was a smashing success. Outbreaks of virulent disease dropped, and the project was a model for municipal water and (eventually) sewer systems all around the country.
Education Battle
The drive to establish public schools took place in this same period but it took longer.
It started during the American Revolution. In 1779, while war still raged with the British, Thomas Jefferson, as the governor of Virginia, introduced a plan for bare-bones public education. The bill in the House of Burgesses died without a vote.
In the 1800s, states issued powerful slogans proclaiming that reading, writing and ciphering should be a right of all. But going from word to deed proved arduous. Opponents of the idea, in language reminiscent of the health-care debate, said government didn’t have a right to take taxes out of their pocket to pay for the education of someone else’s child. Quaker, Lutheran and Catholic churches, which ran their own schools, regarded government-funded schools as intruding on their turf.
As with health care today (thank you, Governor Romney), Massachusetts led the way, first passing a public school law in 1827. Then from 1837 to 1848, Horace Mann, who held the essentially ceremonial post of Massachusetts secretary of education, became a national leader in promoting the establishment of “common schools” for everyone.
Pennsylvania passed its Free School Act in 1834. In another echo of the debate over Obamacare, there was a backlash, and voters elected a new governor and crop of legislators who had campaigned against it. The act was saved by Thaddeus Stevens, a state legislator who had won office opposing the act but who then switched positions. In a rousing speech, Stevens, who was later elected to Congress, chided his fellow legislators for voting, without debate, to give money to improve the breeding of pigs, but for being less willing to spend to improve the breed of man. He tied free schools to the new democracy.
“If an elective republic is to endure for any great length of time, every elector must have sufficient information, not only to accumulate wealth and take care of his pecuniary concerns, but to direct wisely the Legislatures, the Ambassadors, and the Executive of the nation,” Stevens said. “This is a sufficient answer to those who deem education a private and not a public duty -- who argue that they are willing to educate their own children, but not their neighbor’s children.”
Government Power
Mandatory schooling was a separate fight. Massachusetts again took the lead. In 1852, the state enacted a law requiring parents to send their children either to a public school or to an acceptable religious school, for three months a year. There were few provisions for enforcement.
The law was controversial, and no wonder. Here was the state entering the family’s home, and escorting the child out the door and into a classroom. The fears about mandatory public schooling were just as pitched as were those about government- managed health care and its “death panels.” Government was entering an area that was previously off-limits. It was not until 1918 that every state had a public attendance law.
Once established, though, universal public schooling, like clean water, became an unassailable right. Business became a strong supporter, profiting as it did from a workforce made literate at the public’s expense.
Yes, most of the action, both on education and waterworks, occurred at the state level. But Congress was also involved. It passed the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, which included, by the design of Thomas Jefferson, a system dedicating one of every 36 plots of land to public education. The Morrill Act of 1862 created land-grant colleges. Eventually, Congress would approve the G.I. Bill. It moved to protect water quality when, under President Richard Nixon, it enacted the Clean Water Act and created the Environmental Protection Agency.
This doesn’t mean debates on these subjects are over. Most people accept that government should have something to do with ensuring that people have schooling and clean water. But private water companies have emerged as competitors to municipal water agencies, and some reformers call for vouchers as an alternative to public schools.
The arc of history suggests that eventually Americans will accept the right to health care. It appears that the country is continuing its path of two steps forward, one step backward, in establishing a higher bar of essential services for its citizens. Time has shown that this progress is not only good for individuals, but will serve the needs of American business, as well.

 

[1sickbastard]

Most sane Americans know they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and nothing more. That view in politics has seemingly been turned on its head, now with many believing the government owes you EVERYTHING, cradle to grave, and should (nee MUST) tax to the max, and seemingly go $16T plus in debt for suchh beliefs, costs be damned.

To what are Americans 'entitled'?

I'm entitled to the limited government specified in the US Constitution.

 

[Liar]

Fellatio.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Fellatio.

From women we personally select.

 

[Peregrinator]

The consequences of my behavior.

 

[coachdb18]

I dont usually just c&p the whole article, but this once I shall make an exception



...snip...

So the entitlement to expect that everyone is armed could one day become accepted as well....

Is the idea of being 'progressive' to progressively wear down the sensible response to adversity, to the point where we try to make the world totally safe against every adversity, such that there is no such thing as a 'nonentitlement', that ANYTHING that could harm you is unacceptable, and it is our governments RESPONSIBILITY to protect us from EVERYTHING. We should no longer have to take any responsibility for ourselves or our actions, that's governments role and problem to solve. Paying for any and all protections is just the cost we have to bear to live in such a world...

Does that pretty much sum it up?

 

[TexasWife25]

So the entitlement to expect that everyone is armed could one day become accepted as well....

Is the idea of being 'progressive' to progressively wear down the sensible response to adversity, to the point where we try to make the world totally safe against every adversity, such that there is no such thing as a 'nonentitlement', that ANYTHING that could harm you is unacceptable, and it is our governments RESPONSIBILITY to protect us from EVERYTHING. We should no longer have to take any responsibility for ourselves or our actions, that's governments role and problem to solve. Paying for any and all protections is just the cost we have to bear to live in such a world...

Does that pretty much sum it up?

If thats what the people want.

Majority rule and all that jazz

 

[coachdb18]

Should freedom from a National Debt be an 'entitlement'?

 

[Sean Renaud]

The consequences of my behavior.

Your entitled to a great deal more than that. Flute playing robins are at the least entitled to a vivisection.

 

[coachdb18]

If thats what the people want.

Majority rule and all that jazz

In that case, isn't the government responsible for a guarantee for each of us to eternal life, free of all physical or mental pain?

 

[Liar]

From women we personally select.

Damn you're picky.

 

[TexasWife25]

In that case, isn't the government responsible for a guarantee for each of us to eternal life, free of all physical or mental pain?

Sounds good to me, although that may require a raise in our taxes. Not sure Americans would agree to the trade.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Should freedom from a National Debt be an 'entitlement'?

Considering we mostly owe ourselves it probably is.

Damn you're picky.

Look I just wanted to get out in front before Vette and BB started showing pics of Larry the Cable Guy. I didn't do anything so horrid as to be entitled to that.

 

[coachdb18]

Among the things we seem to feel are our entitlements, we are now being told what to eat and how much, and we are subjecting our kids lunch boxes to screenings by government agents. Many feel certain foods should be banned and/or regulated, limits placed on availability, and restrictions placed on homeowners as to what foods they can grow in gardens.