What are some good books for reference?

[rikaaim]

Everytime I get a story going and send it to someone for feedback, no matter what the story, I always get hit with the same remarks depiciting my flaws. Mostly grammer seems to be a big problem for me. Aside from reading Stephen King's "On Writting", what's some other good references/resources to become a better writter. I hate putting my thoughts and ideas down on paper to only come across as an uneducated schlep who can't write. I've been working lately on infusing feelings and emotions into my stories, but without proper grammer and edits, no of that matters. If I loose my reader because of poor writting skills, what's the point of writting? So, any advice would be most appreciative. When you have problems, what do you do? Where do you go? Who do you ask for help?

 

[carsonshepherd]

There are a number of style guides, but let me tell you one thing right here:

"writing" and "writer", etc only have one T. (somebody had to say it.)

 

[BlackShanglan]

I suggest a grammar text called "The Blair Handbook." It contains a great deal of basic composition information, but more importantly a lucid, organized explanation of basic grammar rules and principles. It's well-indexed as well, so you can either read it front-to-back or easily pick out the issues that are giving you trouble.

Grammar is not inherited. It's a skill, and it can be tricky to pick up. But it can be learned, and it's an awfully good feeling to see how one's confusion suddenly resolves itself in the presence of the actual rules of usage. It does, however, make you want to punch people who say "use a comma whenever you would pause."

Shanglan

 

[curious2c]

I personally have these for reference:

Websters Unabridged Dictionary
(The huge one...real thick and it has most terms and words that are known I think)

Rogets Thesaurus

Elements of Style by Strunk and White. A classic.

I also have a two volume dictionary set called the Lexicon Webster Dictionary. They came with a set of encyclopeadias I got years ago...but they have quotes of famous authors and people in them too...which is kind of nice.

Last but not least...I have several web pages stored on the ol laptop that have good advice on writing. Most come from literotica...if you look around you'll see them.

I also read the threads at times in the different sections at lit. One can learn quite a bit just by reading the questions on a particular part or type of literature.

I also pick up the copies of "Writers Market" magazine. They always have great articles in them. Most are geared to the 'professional' author, or one trying to sell their work, but they have other articles from time to time on the grammar issues, or context issues and so on. Quite informative from a professional standpoint.

 

[Rhys]

Strunk and White...can't live without it

How to articles on this site from KillerMuffin.

I also have the MLA Handbook.

Basically, I'm aware of my weaknesses as a writer. This is why there is a thing called editing. I have at least six people that read through what I write and pick out grammar errors, syntax, inconsistancies, repetitive word choice and the like. I post my drafts on the General Bored er..Board and mainly the critique I take away from that is whether or not the plot is flowing or not.

Just because you can't spell or your grammar isn't particularly good does not mean you suck as a writer...you just need to get better at editing!

 

[carsonshepherd]

Just because you can't spell or your grammar isn't particularly good does not mean you suck as a writer...you just need to get better at editing!

Just make sure you get a really good editor... and NO you can't have mine!

 

[rikaaim]

I can't rely on someone to fix my constant problems all of the time. If I can learn what mistakes I repeat and can fix them, then I won't worry about them so much and write carefree. That should lead to better flowing and more enjoyable stories, not only to read, but to write as well.

 

[M Crim]

I like elements of style too. But what helped me the most was looking at other writers work. When I'm reading my favorite book, I used to look to see how he/she handled the qoutes, commas, spelling etc. I hope that makes sense.

My spelling isn't perfect but I use the spell check when I'm writing. I however, don't use the grammar check. They seem to cause more problems then what they are worth.

 

[carsonshepherd]

that's true, but at the same time, don't let your errors discourage you from writing. We all do things that make us cringe. (I use words like "suddenly" and "for a moment" way too much.) But when I'm writing I go with the moment and then just do my editing later, like Rhys said.

 

[Rhys]

Just make sure you get a really good editor... and NO you can't have mine!

I have a professional editor already. She does an amazing job! (and no I won't loan her when yours is sick, so don't ask)

 

[Rhys]

that's true, but at the same time, don't let your errors discourage you from writing. We all do things that make us cringe. (I use words like "suddenly" and "for a moment" way too much.) But when I'm writing I go with the moment and then just do my editing later, like Rhys said.

Best quote by an author, EVER:

"Write shit, edit brilliantly." - C.J. Cherryh.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Aside from reading Stephen King's "On Writting", what's some other good references/resources to become a better writter.

Read 'The Writer's Journey' by Christopher Volger and/or 'Story' by Robert McKee instead.

 

[inkstain]

they are standard fare in writing courses.

Lauren, I have tried to read both of those books!

but they seemed a bit male and macho, to be honest -- i cant say why.

I met a woman writer who is very successful and she told me not to follow narrative rules until id written enough to get my own style settled down, which i thought was sensible.

she just writes and smokes like mad, and im pleased to say, she says she has no idea about the end when she starts, which i would have thought was something only inexpereinced writers like me did!

 

[cantdog]

It's an extreme form of letting it wait 'til the edit. Letting the ending wait can be useful if what you need to think of is the characters and their dialogue and personalities, but eventually you have to whip the whole into some sort of shape. It's nice to have some dough all mixed when that happens, but the resulting story, done in that way, will almost always be lengthy.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I know my ending...

It's my middle parts I usually have no clue about.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I have an old high school grammar text I bought at a used bookstore years ago. I likethat it's high school level because it's clear and easy to understand and things are easy to find.

For dictionaries, I use the OneLook online dictionary, which simultaneously looks in something like 100 different sources. Here's a link:

http://www.onelook.com/

I also use Bartleby for quick look-up in their thesaurus and for quotes and stuff:

http://www.bartleby.com/

And of course there's a wealth of stuff on RefDesk:

http://www.refdesk.com/

like if you suddenly have to know the capital of Turkmenistan or how far it is from New York.

Most of my grammar though I learned by absorbtion, by reading. I feel my way through commas, for example, and couldn't cite chapter and verse on why they go where they do. It's just something I feel.

---dr.M.

 

[yui]

For grammatical reference I have a copy of "Harbrace College Handbook, 12th Edition" that I picked up at a thrift store. I find it very simplistic and easy to use for basic grammar. Grammar is a problem for me, also, pasha, so I understand your frustration.

For general reference, the two of my books that I use most are "The American Heritage College Dictionary" and "Bartlett's Roget's Thesaurus". Like everyone else, I use a plethora of online reference sites and I have personally found WordWeb to be one of the most useful tools currently available. It's a free download and I wouldn't want to be without it as a means for clarification and source of common synonyms.

Luck to you,

Yui

 

[NoJo]

In order of frequency of use


1. Google for just about everything
2. Shift-F7 in Word for quick ideas on synonyms

A long way below come the books:

3. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable
4. Chambers 20th Century dictionary
5.. Chambers biographical dictionary


I know og has the OED on CD. I'd love that.

 

[rikaaim]

Thanks everyone for your support and ideas. I often struggle with knowing the ending when I start. Usually I just have an idea that plays out nice and smooth in my head, but then crashes vionlently into a big flaming ball that can be seen from outer space when I try to put it on paper.

 

[cloudy]

For grammatical reference I have a copy of "Harbrace College Handbook, 12th Edition" that I picked up at a thrift store. I find it very simplistic and easy to use for basic grammar. Grammar is a problem for me, also, pasha, so I understand your frustration.

Mine's from my actual course work, but I still have it. Glad to know I'm not the only one that found that useful. It may not be the same edition, but same book.

I also have a business writing textbook that comes in handy every once in awhile.

Other than that? I suppose my education just takes over for the grammar part. I almost instinctively know whether something's right or wrong, and go from there. And, sometimes, I ignore that voice that says it's wrong, unfortunately.

 

[oggbashan]

I know og has the OED on CD. I'd love that.

Not me. Perdita has the CD. I have the Compact version, photographically reduced and boxed with a magnifying glass.

Og

 

[Kassiana]

I don't really use any. I taught myself to read at age five and honestly, spelling and grammar aren't problems for me. I have very rare typos, but that's about it.

I self-edit and do a pretty good job, from what I can tell. On this site and the other ones I post on, I'm one of the few authors without grammar/spelling mistakes in my stories unless the site itself has problems.

My husband has called to my attention the occasional tendencies I have to repeat words over and over again (e.g. "You already said 'feline' once before in this paragraph. Come up with a different word"). Since then, I've tried to use the thesaurus function more in Word so that I don't say the same thing the same way twice...at least, not too close together.

I'd suggest reading more. I'm lousy at reciting grammar rules, but I know what "sounds" right and what doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least partially due to my reading addiction. I read quickly and voraciously and have done so for over twenty-five years.

But unless they've corrected their problems now, don't read St. Martin's Press books. My mother and I have noticed their works are usually very poorly edited for grammar and spelling errors.

 

[NoJo]

Not me. Perdita has the CD. I have the Compact version, photographically reduced and boxed with a magnifying glass.

Og

Yes, I was tempted to get that when it came out a few years ago -- especially when I found out the price for the full edition. But in spite of much prefering to read print than computer screens, I really don't think my eyes could handle it any more.

Perdita has it on CD rom, eh? hmmm...

 

[Pure]

Harbrace was good for its time and is hs level, but I do look at it.
The New Fowler's is *very* detailed, as in questions like the split infinitive, sentence adverbs, gerund vs. infinitive. It's in dictionary/enclyclopedia form, and, like the OED, has many examples, and an historical approach.

A more readable--but less thorough-- book is Harper's _Dictionary of Contemporary Usage_, by the Morrises, where actual writers' responses to certain questions are given, ie. would you split an infinite?

You don't outgrow the need for an editor, btw. No writer does.

 

[yui]

Mine's from my actual course work, but I still have it. Glad to know I'm not the only one that found that useful. It may not be the same edition, but same book.

Great minds, cloudy...