Well, This Was Fun

[TxRad]

I fully agree, but I expect most stories won't get 25 votes or more, when readers have to be logged in in order to vote.

I don't think that will happen with the number of hits this site gets. In any case, you would have to be logged in to read so that solves that.

 

[RejectReality]

Logged in to read?

The site would have a life expectancy of about three days if they did that.

Granting the ability to block anonymous comments by story instead of universally is something that should absolutely happen. There's a strong argument for allowing only registered users to vote in contests while the contests are in progress.

Forcing a login to read is straight up suicide. It would probably crash every single competitor's site when they weren't prepared to handle the tidal wave of traffic.

Even blocking people from reading contest stories without a login is foolish. You'd accomplish more by having the area where the voting form is say "Create a free ID to vote on this contest story."

I don't think that will happen with the number of hits this site gets. In any case, you would have to be logged in to read so that solves that.

 

[rutger5]

Before I came here I was on another site first. Like Lit it had a story section and forums but unlike Lit it didn't do things like support contests. Some writers who frequented the sub-forum most similar to AH did run some writing contests but the only prize was bragging rights. And yet by all accounts people did the same kind of chicanery that is alleged here. Some will try to manipulate scores/votes to help their own stories or for those they are fans of and some are just trolls who enjoy stirring up sh!t.

It sucks but that's how people are. Whether or not the sweeps can really eliminate most of the manipulating that takes place I have no idea but nothing will stop people from trying. Go to any forum, message board, or whatever and followers of Loki will be spreading disharmony for their own amusement. Just part of human nature.

 

[rutger5]

As I've said dozens of times before. It is an easy situation to solve. Even the troll said so. Do away with anonymous. He said he could not have done what he says he did with a user ID. Anonymous was probably a good thing way back when the site started. There is no reason for it today.

It ain't going to happen but it would solve so many problems and make it far easier to clean up the bullshit.

I fully agree, but I expect most stories won't get 25 votes or more, when readers have to be logged in in order to vote.

I don't think that will happen with the number of hits this site gets. In any case, you would have to be logged in to read so that solves that.

Logged in to read?

The site would have a life expectancy of about three days if they did that.

Granting the ability to block anonymous comments by story instead of universally is something that should absolutely happen. There's a strong argument for allowing only registered users to vote in contests while the contests are in progress.

Forcing a login to read is straight up suicide. It would probably crash every single competitor's site when they weren't prepared to handle the tidal wave of traffic.

Even blocking people from reading contest stories without a login is foolish. You'd accomplish more by having the area where the voting form is say "Create a free ID to vote on this contest story."

RejectReality is 100% correct. I don't think it would happen because Laurel and Manu run this site to make money not to placate a bunch of sensitive genius writers (no disrespect meant). On the other site I was on there were always writers unhappy over what they saw as trollish behavior (some is genuine trolling but some also think if their favorites aren't rated as high as they 'should be' it is trolling) and one actually started his own site using his own money. I respect that he put his money where his mouth was and while there may not be any trolls on the site there also aren't many members. And since you can't read the stories without joining it will never get the amount of readers where he came from got, let alone what Lit gets. I post my stories to be read and hopefully enjoyed but if you are just playing to the chorus to avoid trolls then the majority of potential readers will never see them. Just my two cents.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Logged in to read?

The site would have a life expectancy of about three days if they did that.

This. And any benefits from making it harder to multi-vote would be offset by making it harder to detect bad-faith votes and increasing the impact of those that do come in.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

I snap shot it all anyway. After this post, I will disconnect and save all my recorded data on this issue and related data - which is considerable and goes back beyond 2005. And I only have a fraction of it. Even if our little hacker troll friend(s) has this thread deleted, there will still be digital foot prints.

The dumb thing: the dipstick just exposed whatever method he used to multivote.

Absolutely report it via the report button on the story, mentioning the comments. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

It also reeks of agenda beyond tanking your score by claiming to have influenced the contest, and mentioning tefler. Classic wolf-in-sheep's clothing trolling.

Oh, he revealed one of his methods the moment he hit send in the comments. Narcisism, bragging, and a superiority complex are among the traits of many trolls of this site

[Personal attacks, accusations/insults against other Literotica authors, and trolling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]
Last edited by Laurel : Today at 12:00 PM.

Just got this email from the troll:

---------------

--------------


It's amusing how these cheetos finger-tipped basement dwellers believe that they are Machiavelli when they are barely literate buffoons spending their time trying to manipulate something as meaningless as votes on a free erotic story site.

It's more sad than anything else. Hopefully it will give him/her a feeling of accomplishment. It seems as though that might be desperately needed.

Don't let that intimidate you in any way. It's a scare tactic to you in hopes no one will notice this thread and find out who he/she is.

The 'U' is definitely odd. The posts themselves appear to be of UK origin. At least that's what my Euro server connections tell me. This site having a US base and/or having crossed over various international and state(s) lines, does not help it be immune to DMCA rules and guidlines. There's considerable problems with this sites SSLs and https:// as well.

[Personal attacks, accusations/insults against other Literotica authors, and trolling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]Last edited by Laurel

[Personal attacks, accusations/insults against other Literotica authors, and trolling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]Last edited by Laurel

Odd that Laurel's name is increasingly seen in editing/deleting posts and threads lately whenever this subject is broached or is heading in that direction. Even funnier when it's sometimes done to posters who are following the so-called rules.

In my unique situation, the rules don't apply for far more reasons than 1 would think they should.

RejectReality is 100% correct. I don't think it would happen because Laurel and Manu run this site to make money not to placate a bunch of sensitive genius writers (no disrespect meant). On the other site I was on there were always writers unhappy over what they saw as trollish behavior (some is genuine trolling but some also think if their favorites aren't rated as high as they 'should be' it is trolling) and one actually started his own site using his own money. I respect that he put his money where his mouth was and while there may not be any trolls on the site there also aren't many members. And since you can't read the stories without joining it will never get the amount of readers where he came from got, let alone what Lit gets. I post my stories to be read and hopefully enjoyed but if you are just playing to the chorus to avoid trolls then the majority of potential readers will never see them. Just my two cents.

Wow! Either your really naive or there's just enough truth in that post to make it 100% believable. You don't really know what's been going on do you? A link of sorts to your friend or PMing someone in this thread about your friend might be helpful in that respect. As it stands now, the AH and other forums on the site are NOT secure. It seems as if the front page and anything stories or poems is splitting itself off from the rest. The #s are going down quick and that's gonna hurt the readership for sure.

Until you realize Laurel and Manu have investors and are also among the trolls of their own site, perhaps you should delete your 2 cents.

But I'm a typical American - you know how we can be. Just taking the internet back - one site at a time.


Also, I'm Captainnumnuts. A founding member of the newly formed American Rebel Alliance copyright

 

[SimonDoom]

Logged in to read?

The site would have a life expectancy of about three days if they did that.

Granting the ability to block anonymous comments by story instead of universally is something that should absolutely happen. There's a strong argument for allowing only registered users to vote in contests while the contests are in progress.

Forcing a login to read is straight up suicide. It would probably crash every single competitor's site when they weren't prepared to handle the tidal wave of traffic.

Even blocking people from reading contest stories without a login is foolish. You'd accomplish more by having the area where the voting form is say "Create a free ID to vote on this contest story."

This is all good advice. I agree with all this.

This site absolutely cannot make it harder for people to read stories. That makes no sense and the site is not going to do it.

But I like the idea of limiting contest votes to registered users. Or, perhaps, better, you could allow unregistered people to vote, and their votes would count for long-term scores, but only registered user votes would count for contest victories.

This way, you would not in any way disincentivize real voting, but you would disincentivize troll voting, and, better still, you could monitor it and do something about it better.

You would have to change the threshold for the number of votes needed to count.

 

[JasonClearwater]

But I like the idea of limiting contest votes to registered users. Or, perhaps, better, you could allow unregistered people to vote, and their votes would count for long-term scores, but only registered user votes would count for contest victories.

The site admins aren't stupid... I guess they're balancing anonymity with usability and enjoyability. All three of those are important to the readers and the authors.

What they've done so far makes sense - yes, it's easy to falsify the votes, but if they leave that gap open, they can easily see those patterns - and they clearly have multiple things they look for, and can sweep for.

They could also fuzz the voting results by delaying the updates on scores, so that the trolls couldn't immediately see if their methods were working, but on the other hand, leaving it real-time is good troll-bait. The troll gets a deep sense of satisfaction from 'manipulating' the results, and is keep busy beavering away. Yes, it means the results are a roller-coaster for the contestants, but they also know things will (mostly) even out in the end, and by and large authors here are supportive of one another, which is how it should be.

I don't believe for a second that Laurel and Manu aren't continuing to hone their detection methods as time goes on. But it's not an easy fix. This problem isn't unique to Lit.

If they close the loop on anonymous voting, votes on stories might well drop drastically, but the ones who'll be punished the most by this will be new authors who don't have massive followings. Think about it - anyone who's been here for years, and who has thousands of followers, is going to have a massive advantage under that system - they do anyway. A new author, barely discovered, just won't get the NUMBER of votes, no matter how good their work is - and you're going to see, as you do now, scores rammed up against the top end of the scale. But for those undiscovered authors, a genuine 3 or 4 against a smaller number of votes, is going to mean they can't compete.

As frustrating as it is, I think the site owners are doing their best to make it fair for everyone.

And the troll's attempt to make people question their scores, or point the finger at Tefler, just proves he (or she) is a giant bellend who has nothing better to do with their evenings.

If you're watching, 'mate', I suggest you put your efforts into something more productive than mucking about with erotica competition entries. LOL. Get a hobby. Learn a language. You'll feel better about yourself.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you're watching, 'mate', I suggest you put your efforts into something more productive than mucking about with erotica competition entries. LOL. Get a hobby. Learn a language. You'll feel better about yourself.

Just the person for a MLP subscription .

 

[JasonClearwater]

Just the person for a MLP subscription .

BAHAHAHAHAA.

 

[RejectReality]

So long as it's spelled out, that's a solution. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to change the backend query so that it only tallies registered user votes for the contest results. No need to put a trap into the story page to look for contest stories and change the voting form accordingly, either. Coding time and server tic bonuses.

Do only registered votes count toward the 25 vote minimum, though? That could cause a lot of fit throwing and conspiracy poo-flinging, because there's no way to see how many registered votes you have, as opposed to total votes.

But I like the idea of limiting contest votes to registered users. Or, perhaps, better, you could allow unregistered people to vote, and their votes would count for long-term scores, but only registered user votes would count for contest victories.

 

[SimonDoom]

The site admins aren't stupid... I guess they're balancing anonymity with usability and enjoyability. All three of those are important to the readers and the authors.

What they've done so far makes sense - yes, it's easy to falsify the votes, but if they leave that gap open, they can easily see those patterns - and they clearly have multiple things they look for, and can sweep for.

They could also fuzz the voting results by delaying the updates on scores, so that the trolls couldn't immediately see if their methods were working, but on the other hand, leaving it real-time is good troll-bait. The troll gets a deep sense of satisfaction from 'manipulating' the results, and is keep busy beavering away. Yes, it means the results are a roller-coaster for the contestants, but they also know things will (mostly) even out in the end, and by and large authors here are supportive of one another, which is how it should be.

I don't believe for a second that Laurel and Manu aren't continuing to hone their detection methods as time goes on. But it's not an easy fix. This problem isn't unique to Lit.

If they close the loop on anonymous voting, votes on stories might well drop drastically, but the ones who'll be punished the most by this will be new authors who don't have massive followings. Think about it - anyone who's been here for years, and who has thousands of followers, is going to have a massive advantage under that system - they do anyway. A new author, barely discovered, just won't get the NUMBER of votes, no matter how good their work is - and you're going to see, as you do now, scores rammed up against the top end of the scale. But for those undiscovered authors, a genuine 3 or 4 against a smaller number of votes, is going to mean they can't compete.

As frustrating as it is, I think the site owners are doing their best to make it fair for everyone.

And the troll's attempt to make people question their scores, or point the finger at Tefler, just proves he (or she) is a giant bellend who has nothing better to do with their evenings.

If you're watching, 'mate', I suggest you put your efforts into something more productive than mucking about with erotica competition entries. LOL. Get a hobby. Learn a language. You'll feel better about yourself.

You may well be right that Laurel and Manu have got all this figured out better than any of the rest of us, that they're doing the best they can, and it's better than this proposal, or a lot of others. That's possible.

I don't think my proposal is going to have a significant impact on views for new authors or upon reader quantity. My proposal is limited to the treatment of votes for contest stories only, and only for contest purposes. I don't believe in shutting off anonymous voting. Most of the stories submitted on this site are not submitted to contests, although a somewhat higher percentage of stories by the best authors are.

I've published 18 stories in 15 months, only two for contests. They are two of my least-viewed stories, and their relative lack of success has had no impact on my success in reaching readers on this site. Putting some additional restrictions on contest voting only would not, in my view, significantly reduce readership or the ability of new authors to reach readers.

But, no question, Laurel and Manu may know a lot more about it than I do, and I'm fine with sticking with the way things are. I don't really care about winning contests; I want to reach readers who may like my stories, and to get feedback that will help me write better stories. Those are my goals.

 

[SimonDoom]

So long as it's spelled out, that's a solution. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to change the backend query so that it only tallies registered user votes for the contest results. No need to put a trap into the story page to look for contest stories and change the voting form accordingly, either. Coding time and server tic bonuses.

Do only registered votes count toward the 25 vote minimum, though? That could cause a lot of fit throwing and conspiracy poo-flinging, because there's no way to see how many registered votes you have, as opposed to total votes.

I don't see this as significantly hurting transparency. Nobody knows how sweeps work, so the number of votes you get already isn't transparent. As long as the site owners are clear up front that total registered vote numbers won't be available, although you will know if they get whatever the minimum threshold is, then whatever happens will be just as transparent as what happens now.

 

[JasonClearwater]

You may well be right that Laurel and Manu have got all this figured out better than any of the rest of us, that they're doing the best they can, and it's better than this proposal, or a lot of others. That's possible.

I don't think my proposal is going to have a significant impact on views for new authors or upon reader quantity. My proposal is limited to the treatment of votes for contest stories only, and only for contest purposes. I don't believe in shutting off anonymous voting. Most of the stories submitted on this site are not submitted to contests, although a somewhat higher percentage of stories by the best authors are.

I've published 18 stories in 15 months, only two for contests. They are two of my least-viewed stories, and their relative lack of success has had no impact on my success in reaching readers on this site. Putting some additional restrictions on contest voting only would not, in my view, significantly reduce readership or the ability of new authors to reach readers.

But, no question, Laurel and Manu may know a lot more about it than I do, and I'm fine with sticking with the way things are. I don't really care about winning contests; I want to reach readers who may like my stories, and to get feedback that will help me write better stories. Those are my goals.

It wouldn't affect readership or views, but it would absolutely affect a new author's, even slight, chances of winning a competition against a long-standing established writer, some of who would only need 5% of their (registered) voting base to push them to the top of the list.

If you're going to hold competitions, you want to make sure they're as fair as possible for everyone participating... otherwise, no one participates. And competitions are good - they encourage new ideas, and a kind of war-camp camaraderie. In fact, the trolling has the positive effect of placing everyone on the same 'Hey, we're getting fucked over' footing, and disguises the true results until the end, meaning authors have no idea how well they're doing till the last second. While that could be seen as a bad thing, for the sake of 'we're all in this together', it actually leads to a healthier competitive spirit (imv).

One way to look at it, is the harder you get trolled, the more risk you must be seen as (by their more enthusiastic fans) to those top contenders. No one trolls you, or leaves vitriol in your comments section, then to some extent, you're not ruffling any feathers.

I miss the days when trolls actively sought me out. It's all very quiet down in my comments section these days. I'm thinking of installing a lava lamp and a big-screen TV to keep me company.

 

[RejectReality]

Someone has 56 votes and a 4.98 score, .02 above any other competitor, and doesn't place because they didn't have the minimum number of registered votes to qualify?

That's a big difference from knowing how many of your votes will survive sweeps. Once the sweeps are over, they're over. The number of votes you have is the number of votes you have. 25+ = qualified.

Really, so is only counting registered votes, but allowing all votes to continue to come in. Though you can never be absolutely certain what anyone else's score was at the time of the announcement, so long as you're around when it happens, you can see yours. Only counting registered votes means you don't even know what your score was when it's all said and done.

It's introducing additional uncertainty after the winner's announcement, which is only going to lead to a spike in foil sales.

I don't see this as significantly hurting transparency. Nobody knows how sweeps work, so the number of votes you get already isn't transparent. As long as the site owners are clear up front that total registered vote numbers won't be available, although you will know if they get whatever the minimum threshold is, then whatever happens will be just as transparent as what happens now.

 

[JasonClearwater]

It's introducing additional uncertainty after the winner's announcement, which is only going to lead to a spike in foil sales.

A spike in foil sales.

LOL.

 

[SimonDoom]

A spike in foil sales.

LOL.

Yep. That was well said. You both made good arguments.

 

[lovecraft68]

Personal attacks? I guess stating facts is now an attack?

Because no author here knows other fan bases attack other authors and because no one here knows nothing's done about it?

Not to mention the fact its all there in the trolls message and comments

 

[weftandwarp]

In a way, this is like gun control. Some one has come into our classroom, used an automatic weapon to shoot a lot of us as we sit and now we're asking for some thing to be done- like gun control.

 

[lovecraft68]

In a way, this is like gun control. Some one has come into our classroom, used an automatic weapon to shoot a lot of us as we sit and now we're asking for some thing to be done- like gun control.

Do you think we'll be offered thoughts and prayers?

 

[KindofHere]

..................

 

[weftandwarp]

Do you think we'll be offered thoughts and prayers?

Only if we catch him.

 

[weftandwarp]

I was thinking something like this too when I started reading this thread. I also think the cruelest punishment to a troll/attention seeker is to ignore them. This thread has given them three days and pages of satisfaction. It should have never been started.

He has been largely ignored until now. Unchecked he exploited what he saw as weakness. The mark of an obnoxious bully.



If it wasn't a porn/erotica site, maybe.

Porn/ erotica isn't the problem as much as the shit that comes with it. Some of the shit is prohibited such as bestiality and underage. Some persists. Whether the site would collapse if it were removed too I don't know. I have always been aware of it and been criticised for my concern.


Unfairness in competitions will never be eliminated. Some will use editors while others won't, some will work a "fan base" while others won't. Some will write in more popular categories while others won't. There are many ways of gaining unfair advantage but it is the obnoxiousness behaviour and the apparent lack of consequence that wrecks the sincerity of contestants and the integrity of the contest.

 

[oggbashan]

Porn/ erotica isn't the problem as much as the shit that comes with it. Some of the shit is prohibited such as bestiality and underage. Some persists. Whether the site would collapse if it were removed too I don't know. I have always been aware of it and been criticised for my concern.


Unfairness in competitions will never be eliminated. Some will use editors while others won't, some will work a "fan base" while others won't. Some will write in more popular categories while others won't. There are many ways of gaining unfair advantage but it is the obnoxiousness behaviour and the apparent lack of consequence that wrecks the sincerity of contestants and the integrity of the contest.

The advantage of entering a contest is still that your story gets far more attention for much longer than it would if posted outside a contest. That can spill over to your other stories. Whether all that attention is welcome? That's another question but if you are posting stories on Literotica, or anywhere, presumably you want an audience.

Whether you can win a contest? I think that has become almost a lottery. Any competent story stands a chance of competing. Most contest stories ARE competent. I don't think that an author, by themselves without considerable help, can really influence the result. Posting early, posting late, posting in a popular category or an unpopular one, don't seem to outweigh the other factors influencing ratings. There might have been advantages several years ago when the number of entries were fewer and the number of votes was significantly lower. Then a sweep could move a rating further - or reduce the total votes to less than 25. Getting less than 25 votes is now rare. It wasn't.

The sure way to lose is not to enter. I don't think there is a set of rules/tricks/methods to ensure a place in the top three.

I still think that an author gains from entering the Literotica contests.

For me? The contests give me motivation to write. Without them my stories would be far fewer.

 

[JasonClearwater]

I still think that an author gains from entering the Literotica contests.

For me? The contests give me motivation to write. Without them my stories would be far fewer.

I'd agree with that. I picked up most of my followers with my 'nude day' entries, and those are (were - I removed one) my highest read stories to date.

It definitely heightens your visibility, especially if you're in a category with fewer readers than, say, incest or LW.

So, hopefully, more people find you and enjoy your work. That's what you want, really.