Well, the Israeli elections are nearly upon us.

[p_p_man]

Support for Sharon is dropping like a stone with the joint failures of his economic and reprisal policies and it may well be that very soon now he'll be out of office.

The newly-elected opposition leader, Amram Mitzna, has been invited to London for talks with Tony Blair to discuss solutions to the problem and Sharon of course, is hop footing mad about that, even though it's his own fault.

Having so many warrants against him for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity he can't leave Israel without being arrested.

"Mr Mitzna, who gives an exclusive interview to The Times today ahead of his arrival in Britain on Thursday, is a former general who advocates a “separation” policy involving Israel’s unilateral and almost immediate withdrawal from Gaza, and unconditional talks with the Palestinian leadership."

If the man wins the election and is given a chance to open talks with the Palestinians then maybe we'll be getting somewhere, but it will be a long road to travel as the Irish Peace Process has shown...

ppman

 

[Kymberley]

Some things never change

After months of being gone, what should I log in to find....

Another thread of the toilet meister man trying to tell yet another country what their citizens should do in the political arena to please him.

Not enough for the piss king to constantly be sticking his nose in American politics where he is most definately not needed, but now he is going to tell the people of Isreal what they should do to please him.

When is he going to learn that his place is beside his own toilet, not in the rest of the world's piss pots?

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Some things never change

After months of being gone,

Welcome back...



ppman

 

[Problem Child]

With any luck at all they'll elect busybody as their new PM, thus finally giving ppman something entirely new to whine about.

 

[REDWAVE]

The piss king!

Now I really like that. I can just picture his coronation . . .

 

[Kymberley]

It was quite a scene

Liquid gold flowing everywhere you looked. And the Piss King swimming right in the middle of it all.

 

[p_p_man]

Because of the suicide bombing last night...

Sharon has put travel restrictions on the Palestinian delegation stopping them coming to London for exploratory talks...

That just confirms he doesn't want peace...

He really is a twisted, bitter man who sees the Zionist dream of Israeli domination over the whole of Palestine receding rapidly...

ppman

 

[Kuntmode]

n/a

The solution to the problems over there is easy. The rest of the world should cut all media ties with the area so we don't have to know what is happening or indeed coming out of there.

That way, we can live our normal everyday lives without knowing who is killing who, and without seeing the pictures to make us shed a tear and want to do something about it.


Let them solve their own fucking problems. Those cunts have been killing each other for thousands of years, and I am sure most countries around the world back in the dark ages when media didn't exist, didn't give a fuck.

What has changed? If you do, then go there and be a red cross helper or sign up and fight along side them in their cause.

Focus on your own life and what affects it. Surely Jews killing Pali's and Pali's killing Jews is not going to change your life. If anything, it distracts you from the more important things going on. Like joining my club to free the world of Americans.

 

[Coolville]

Kymberly may have perfected "Bitchyness" but she can't spell it.

Fucking bimbo redneck.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: n/a

Those cunts have been killing each other for thousands of years

Nahhh, 90 is more like it. There were hardly any jews around until 1896...

They were busy living in other countries...

ppman

 

[Guest]

 

[bully]

From all that I understand of the situation, this most recent attack on "Is'real'?" has given it's people another scare. They may look to Sharon (god, I can't even write that name without thinking of the Ozbornes), who has always been a strong if somewhat overzealous leader in the past, for the sense of security they long for. It has also been suggested that the attacks over the last two years has created a very "right" minded sentiment, and that Sharon fills that ideally.

BTW, why do we have to use words like "Jews" and "Palis". I guess they get the point across, but the way in which their being used, I mean really. Why don't you just say "Hook Noses" and "Towel Heads". By all accounts, you would sound just as narrow-minded. Oh well, each to their own

 

[Guest]

 

[Kuntmode]

n/a

Jesus Christ - King of the Jews

So it was a fucking story afterall. I fucking knew it.

Jews have only been in the middle east for 90 years?

Is that a 100% fact?

 

[busybody..]

The Century of Islam

If you’re tempted to retreat into the warm, safe fantasy that what happens in Israel doesn’t impinge on our warm, safe United States cocoon (and if September 11 2001 wasn’t enough to trigger a metamorphosis), read the words of the Pediatrician of Death, lauded by TIME Europe, who makes no bones about his ultimate intentions: Opposite Sides.

"The growing influence of Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza, as Rantisi sees it, is part of a broader trend across the globe that puts him at odds not only with Sharon but also with the U.S. government and the West. "I consider this a year of accomplishment for Islamic groups," he says. "I do believe that this century is going to be the century of Islam."


A year of accomplishment. Morgues are filling up across the civilized world. With many thousands dead already, Islam’s off to a great start in the 21st century

 

[p_p_man]

Re: n/a

Jews have only been in the middle east for 90 years?

Is that a 100% fact?

Read on...

"Zionism" was divided into two camps. Some, like Ahad Ha'am, focused on spiritual renewal. But the major thrust, which was essentially political and nationalistic, came from men like Moses Hess, Leo Pinsker and Theodor Herzl.

In the late nineteenth century some wealthy Jews in Western Europe helped assist in the establishment of small Jewish colonies in Palestine. In this context, Theodor Herzl's Der Judenstaat, "The Jewish State" (1896), became the foundation for modern Zionism. He came to the conclusion that a homeland for the Jews was the only solution to the mistreatments they were experiencing in most other places. Under his guidance the first Zionist Congress met in Basel, Switzerland, in 1897 and the World Zionist Organization was formed.

A proposal for a Jewish homeland obviously created a serious conflict with those already living in Palestine. What would happen to those already occupying this region? Would these people leave peacefully so that Jews could live in "their" land?

Through a series of events the British took over Jerusalem in December of 1***. Then in the Balfour Declaration it was stated that Britain favored the establishment of a home in Palestine for the Jews, but not to the hurt of those already living in the area.

Needless to say, in the ensuing years tensions began to mount between Jewish settlers and the Arab population."

So there you have it...the jews are relative newcomers to the area. Pushy troublemakers, but newcomers for all that...

Today's Israel - Is God on her Side

ppman

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: n/a

Read on...

<snip>
So there you have it...the jews are relative newcomers to the area. Pushy troublemakers, but newcomers for all that...

Today's Israel - Is God on her Side

ppman

Revisionist history at it's best p_p_man. Congratulations on rewriting things to support your position.

Now for some facts.

1) While Herzl was a proponent of emigration to Israel, and emigration did occur, it was in addition to the Jewish population already there.

2) Israel was designated as a state not only for European Jews, but for middle eastern Jews who were driven out of many countries such as Jordan (Trans-Jordan), Iraq, Iran and Syria, where anti-semitism was rampant.

3) The original land that Israel was given was much smaller than the current borders, but the middle-eastern countries anti-semitism could not allow any place for Israel, hence their attack on Israel in 1948.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

LOL, I didn't read closely enough. I thought you said the Ishmael elections were coming up.

 

[REDWAVE]

Reaction

Zionism began as a reaction against socialism, which at the time was very attractive to Jewish intellectuals.

 

[zipman]

Re: Reaction

Zionism began as a reaction against socialism, which at the time was very attractive to Jewish intellectuals.

Zionism began as a reaction to persecution. Socialism had nothing to do with it.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: n/a

Revisionist history at it's best p_p_man. Congratulations on rewriting things to support your position.

Now for some facts.

1) While Herzl was a proponent of emigration to Israel, and emigration did occur, it was in addition to the Jewish population already there.

2) Israel was designated as a state not only for European Jews, but for middle eastern Jews who were driven out of many countries such as Jordan (Trans-Jordan), Iraq, Iran and Syria, where anti-semitism was rampant.

3) The original land that Israel was given was much smaller than the current borders, but the middle-eastern countries anti-semitism could not allow any place for Israel, hence their attack on Israel in 1948.

Not my writing but that of other, more prominent people who are part of or have studied the situation all their lives...

But as we're each quoting facts, how about giving the source(s) of yours.

The number of jews already in Palestine before organised immigration began was very small indeed. The State of Israel was created in 1948 under UN Resolution 181 (which incidentally also created the State of Palestine). I'm not disputing the fact that the original geographical area was small but the jews were allocated prime land...

"Between 1900 and 1947, the Jewish population in Palestine increased from 10% to 30% due to immigration of European Jews. Because of civil unrest, the United Nations proposed in 1947 that Palestine be divided into a Palestinian Arab state and a Jewish state.

The UN Partition Plan recommended that 55 percent of Palestine, also the most fertile region, be given to the Jewish settlers who compromised 30 percent of the population. The remaining 45 percent of Palestine was to comprise a home for the other 70 percent of the population who were Arab. The Palestinians rejected the plan because it was unfair. During Israel's "war of independence," 700,000 Palestinians were driven out of their homes and 418 villages were depopulated and destroyed, what is today referred to as 'ethnic cleansing'."

Source:
Jews Against the Occupation

ppman

 

[Guest]

Amram Mitzna

It's very unlikely he wins.

Even if he does - which I hope he does for the sake of peace - he'll probably get assacssinated by Jewish extreamists.

So, nothing changes.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Well, the Israeli elections are nearly upon us.

It's very unlikely he wins.

True all the indications are that he won't. But he is a fighter and has opposed and won against Sharon before.

He threatened to resign when Sharon was Minister of Defence and was responsible for the refugee camp massacres in the Lebananon. As it happened it was Sharon who was dismissed.

Here's an edited version of his interview with yesterday's Times...

"Ariel Sharon, and force. Or Amram Mitzna, and negotiations.

Mr Mitzna, 57, the son of refugees from Hitler’s Germany, is a former general and war hero elected in November to head the centre-left Labour Party. For two years the once-mighty party of Yitzhak Rabin has languished in political limbo while serving in the hawkish Mr Sharon’s coalition.

But under Mr Mitzna it has redefined itself as a genuine centre-left opposition offering unconditional talks with the Palestinians, withdrawal from Gaza and remote settlements in the West Bank and the radical policy of separation — pulling back behind a security wall being erected between Israel and the West Bank.

To supporters, Mr Mitzna, a former tank commander in the Six-Day and Yom Kippur wars who preached co-existence with Arabs during his decade as Mayor of Haifa, is an exciting new challenger who may at last offer what remains of Israel’s middle ground an alternative to two years of Palestinian bombs and gun attacks, followed by Israeli tank incursions and assassinations.

Speaking to The Times yesterday in the first interview with a foreign newspaper since his election as Labour leader on November 19, Mr Mitzna spelt out how he seeks to capitalise on polls that show strong support for Mr Sharon’s hawkish policies but even stronger underlying support — around 70 per cent — for making peace when the time is right.

“What I am saying is that in my view there is only one alternative that Israel should take that will lead Israel to start solving our problems - Separation from the Palestinians,” he said.

“Building a fence from the northern part of the West Bank to the southern part of the West Bank in order to put a barrier between Israel and terrorism. This is the first item.

“The second is to withdraw all the settlements from Gaza and remote settlements from the West Bank.”

Although he previously insisted withdrawal from Gaza would be “immediate” he has now softened this to “less than a year”, acknowledging that it will take time to move the few thousand Jewish settlers with whom he clashed during his stint in command of the West Bank in the first intifada.

But on the principle he is firm, while acknowledging that he will need the help of the West to fill the vacuum left by sudden withdrawal from lands occupied by Israel for the past 35 years.

This, he confirms, will be one of the items under discussion when he arrives in London for talks with Tony Blair on Thursday.

“In Gaza it is unilateral, there is nothing to discuss. The only thing we have to discuss is that we might use friends like Mr Blair to try to leave the area under some kind of agreement.

“Then the Palestinians or any other international force will go in and try to help the Palestinians to recover in the Gaza Strip, and of course to take care that terrorism will not be implemented from Gaza into Israel proper.”

In the West Bank, however, a far more complex situation exists. Mr Mitzna says that he will evacuate “isolated” settlements but remains vague on where the line will be drawn.

“The idea is that immediately after I am elected and form the Government I will call the Palestinians to resume negotiations — without preconditions,” he said.

“Hopefully we will succeed in reaching an agreement. If not, for our security the fence is part of the need to protect the citizens of Israel.

“I think the need (for it) is there, with an agreement or without. The hatred between both people has reached a point at which you have to separate yourself.”

To critics he is a naive and inexperienced idealist — he has never been an MP — and out of touch with a right-wing electorate. He is also likely to lose. Mr Sharon’s Likud — although hit by a corruption scandal that has seen its support wobble — is set to win 30-35 seats within the 120-seat Knesset and Labour has been accused of running a lacklustre campaign.

Yet Mr Mitzna is no stranger to challenges. In the Six-Day War in 1967, his battalion commander was decapitated before his eyes. Not wanting his men to see the body, he covered it with a map and carried on with the operation.

He has also clashed with Mr Sharon before. In 1982, as a brigadier-general, he threatened to resign in protest over Mr Sharon’s role in the massacres of Palestinians at Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Lebanon. Mr Sharon, Defence Minister at the time, demanded he be sacked but it was Mr Sharon who was ousted.

Sitting beneath a portrait of David Ben Gurion, Israel’s founder, Mr Mitzna argues that Mr Sharon is simply unable to make the sort of concessions that Israel needs to guarantee its long-term security.

“I think that Israel, not just me, the citizens of Israel are prepared to make very deep and painful concessions once we feel confident that an agreement will be backed by real will by the Palestinians and the countries that support them,” he said.

Once again, it is Sharon vs Mitzna. Two generals, two visions. The outcome will be decided on January 28."

ppman

 

[Guest]

The city of Haifa (town?) displayed that Jews and Arabs can live among each other relatively peacefully.

Why is he proposing seperation? Sounds strange to me to come from the guy. Maybe being practical...

As I said, I'll take the laber guy over Sharon any time of the day. I just hope he surround himself with hundreds of body guards.

 

[REDWAVE]

Rabin

You see what they did to Rabin to prevent peace from breaking out. Ever notice how it's almost always leftist or liberal political leaders who get assassinated (or die in mysterious small plane crashes), not right-wingers? Think that's just a coincidence?