Well here's a new one

[SeaCat]

It seems the Deprtment of Homeland Defense now wants all boaters to have either a Boaters Liscence or a Federal I.D. before they can put their boats in the water. (This was announced on a local News Station this evening.)

The premise behind this idea? The don't know who is on the water and possibly sneaking up on targets.

Go figure.

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

Any comments?

Cat

 

[SlickTony]

Shheeesh. Next we'll have to be licensed to ride a bicycle.

 

[SeaCat]

Shheeesh. Next we'll have to be licensed to ride a bicycle.

Shhhhhhhh, they don't need any more ideas.

Cat

 

[3113]

The premise behind this idea? They don't know who is on the water and possibly sneaking up on targets.

Cubans?

 

[The_Fool]

It seems the Deprtment of Homeland Defense now wants all boaters to have either a Boaters Liscence or a Federal I.D. before they can put their boats in the water. (This was announced on a local News Station this evening.)

The premise behind this idea? The don't know who is on the water and possibly sneaking up on targets.

Go figure.

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

Any comments?

Cat

I can argue this one both ways.

 

[SlickTony]

I just mentioned this to my husband, and he said, "Well, you're out on the water and see a bass boat with a 350hp engine on it--why shouldn't you have to have a license to drive the thing?"

But that's a sensible reason. Nothin' to do with security.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It seems the Deprtment of Homeland Defense now wants all boaters to have either a Boaters Liscence or a Federal I.D. before they can put their boats in the water. (This was announced on a local News Station this evening.)

The premise behind this idea? The don't know who is on the water and possibly sneaking up on targets.

Go figure.

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

Any comments?

Cat

Is that all boats or boats of a certain size. Surely, you would not need a license for a canoe or rowboat, and you already need one for a cabin cruiser.

 

[Weird Harold]

It seems the Deprtment of Homeland Defense now wants all boaters to have either a Boaters Liscence or a Federal I.D. before they can put their boats in the water.

Is that all boats or boats of a certain size. Surely, you would not need a license for a canoe or rowboat, and you already need one for a cabin cruiser.

At a guess, I'd say it is directed at any boat that requires a trailer or boat ramp to launch. It would be kind of pointless to try to police boats that can be launched by tossing them off the bank anywhere handy -- not that minor detail would deter DHD from making another unenforceable rule or wasting time and money trying to enforce it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

At a guess, I'd say it is directed at any boat that requires a trailer or boat ramp to launch. It would be kind of pointless to try to police boats that can be launched by tossing them off the bank anywhere handy -- not that minor detail would deter DHD from making another unenforceable rule or wasting time and money trying to enforce it.

I would guess that too, which would mean the Feds would be trying to extend an existing regulation, rather than trying to pass a new one.

 

[popcorn2721]

I would guess that too, which would mean the Feds would be trying to extend an existing regulation, rather than trying to pass a new one.

I thought that boating was handled at the state level and here in Illinois you must register anything over 10 feet. I cannot see any terrorist doing anything in a 10 foot John Boat or a 8 foot dingy.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I thought that boating was handled at the state level and here in Illinois you must register anything over 10 feet. I cannot see any terrorist doing anything in a 10 foot John Boat or a 8 foot dingy.

If a boat is more than a certain size, it must be registered with the Coast Guard. Possibly, a terrorist could sneak away from shore in a dinghy (whether it was dingy or not) and attach a limpet mine to a warship.

 

[ghost_girl]

Shheeesh. Next we'll have to be licensed to ride a bicycle.

in some places, you do have to have a permit. where I grew up, it was required, bit not enforced. national ID card wont be the end of it, what will happen will be federally mandated chips put in us when we are born. something fucked up like that. they'll tell us its for our own good, and we can use it like a bank card, ya know scan your retina when you make a purchase, a deposit, get stopped by the cops for speeding, scan your retina. and I'm not being paranoid, they already have the technology-- face scanning for large sporting events and such.. it's messed up, we have no privacy, no presumption of innocence, Bush took care of that with the patriot act.

 

[TxRad]

I just mentioned this to my husband, and he said, "Well, you're out on the water and see a bass boat with a 350hp engine on it--why shouldn't you have to have a license to drive the thing?"

But that's a sensible reason. Nothin' to do with security.

I have a tee shirt i wear to bass tournaments......

"The horsepower of the outboard should not exceed the IQ of the operator."

 

[Liar]

Not counting the Homeland Security terrorism factor...

You require registration and license for a car. But not for a bicycle. How about a moped? That's where distinction for boats should go. Big enough = dangerous enough for yuorself ad others to drive = need to keep owner and driver responsible = license.

 

[Liar]

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

A side note:

What's the big no-no about that? It's cited as the "OFMG, next we know there will be a national ID!" dystopia bogeyman every other time I see Americans discuss any kind of state nannying. As if that was the Ultimate Evil. But I can't see why it should be.

What's the deal?

 

[TxRad]

A side note:

What's the big no-no about that? It's cited as the "OFMG, next we know there will be a national ID!" dystopia bogeyman every other time I see Americans discuss any kind of state nannying. As if that was the Ultimate Evil. But I can't see why it should be.

What's the deal?

Fear of big brother.... Like everyones not already tracked by all the licenses and credit cards and everything else you carry around including your cell phone.

 

[Boxlicker101]

A side note:

What's the big no-no about that? It's cited as the "OFMG, next we know there will be a national ID!" dystopia bogeyman every other time I see Americans discuss any kind of state nannying. As if that was the Ultimate Evil. But I can't see why it should be.

What's the deal?

Basically, we already have one. It's the Social Security Card. When I was a youth, they were issued after an individual got a job. Until then, they weren't needed. Now, they are issued to newborns. We may not be required to carry one, but it is an identifier.

The technology exists to install a computer chip in every person that could be used to track that person. They are already used on animals, and there would be little difference. There are good parts and bad parts here. It would reduce identity theft, and help to trace missing persons, and other good things. However, it would mean a sacrifice of some anonymity, and help Big Brother keep tabs on us, should Orwell's predictions come to pass.

ETA: Everybody has a Social Security card, but not everybody has credit cards or a driver's license. I think the SS card is the only universal ID, at least in the US.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

In New Jersey we have had boat licenses for decades. I tested for one, my brothers and sister tested for one (I just stumbled on my older brother's this morning), and I think even my father has tested for his boating license. So this idea isn't new to me, not on the slippery slope towards Big Brother, and nothing to worry about.

 

[SlickTony]

I thought that boating was handled at the state level and here in Illinois you must register anything over 10 feet. I cannot see any terrorist doing anything in a 10 foot John Boat or a 8 foot dingy.

I thought that an 8 foot dinghy was what they used to get close enough to the USS Cole to blow a hole in it.

 

[SeaCat]

Here in Florida all powered water craft have to be registered. As far as I know the only people required to have a liscence are those who plan on carrying passengers for money.

As far as liscencing is concerned, I see it as just another way for the State or Federal Government to get more money.

Now as for the National I.D.

I have lived in places that had them just as I have lived here in Ameria where there really isn't one. I don't have a problem with the I.D. itself but I do have a problem with some of the ideas forwarded for the I.D.'s and the abuses that could occure with these ideas.

Cat

 

[only_more_so]

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

Any comments?

Cat

If you really want to complain about a potential national ID card, you really shouldn't blame the government, you should blame identity thieves. If people didn't steal other people's identities, didn't fraudulently write checks or create accounts, then their would be no need for identification.

Also, as a side note, social security numbers are not legal identifiers. As strange as that might sound, since they are used that way extensively. Of course, they are as close to a legal ID as exists in the US, so that is how they end up being used.

 

[R. Richard]

Not counting the Homeland Security terrorism factor...

You require registration and license for a car. But not for a bicycle. How about a moped? That's where distinction for boats should go. Big enough = dangerous enough for yuorself ad others to drive = need to keep owner and driver responsible = license.

At least in the state where I live, a moped is considered to be a bicycle and a license is not required. [Moped = 50cc or smaller, 'rated' top speed <= 25 mph.]

 

[Weird Harold]

Just another step towards a National I.D. Card.

A side note:

What's the big no-no about that? It's cited as the "OFMG, next we know there will be a national ID!" dystopia bogeyman every other time I see Americans discuss any kind of state nannying. As if that was the Ultimate Evil. But I can't see why it should be.

What's the deal?

For me, there are two points against a national ID in the US:

1) It's not the idea, but the people pushing the idea that worries me; not the single, isolated idea of a national ID, but how it fits into the pattern of increasingly intrusive and repressive platform of the groups who advocate a national ID.

2) A National ID is a solution in search of a problem. Like the idea that checking IDs as a boat is launched is going to do anything to improve homeland security, a national ID is just a way of "being seen to be doing something" by passing laws and making regulations that don't do anything substantive to correct a problem. (Checking IDs when a boat is launched just tells you who launched the boat, not who really owns it or who is going to steal it and pack it with explosives.)

 

[john-the-author]

For me, there are two points against a national ID in the US:

1) It's not the idea, but the people pushing the idea that worries me; not the single, isolated idea of a national ID, but how it fits into the pattern of increasingly intrusive and repressive platform of the groups who advocate a national ID.

2) A National ID is a solution in search of a problem. Like the idea that checking IDs as a boat is launched is going to do anything to improve homeland security, a national ID is just a way of "being seen to be doing something" by passing laws and making regulations that don't do anything substantive to correct a problem. (Checking IDs when a boat is launched just tells you who launched the boat, not who really owns it or who is going to steal it and pack it with explosives.)

I'm inclined to agree with these comments. IIRC, many countries do require one to carry one's proof of identity/citizenship with one at all times. The proverbial "Your papers, please!" is not (I think) merely a cliche from WWII films. However, I can't help but wonder why we're pushing so hard for it when it's not going to make any significant difference. For a national ID to have any value, we'd have to have competent people running the program, which by definition screens out the FBI and the Ministry of Homeland Security, and there you are: another Mongolian Cluster Fuck brought to you by the Bush Administration.

 

[cloudy]

Basically, we already have one. It's the Social Security Card. When I was a youth, they were issued after an individual got a job. Until then, they weren't needed. Now, they are issued to newborns. We may not be required to carry one, but it is an identifier.

The technology exists to install a computer chip in every person that could be used to track that person. They are already used on animals, and there would be little difference. There are good parts and bad parts here. It would reduce identity theft, and help to trace missing persons, and other good things. However, it would mean a sacrifice of some anonymity, and help Big Brother keep tabs on us, should Orwell's predictions come to pass.

ETA: Everybody has a Social Security card, but not everybody has credit cards or a driver's license. I think the SS card is the only universal ID, at least in the US.

There's also passports, although like driver's licenses, you're not required to have one unless you want to leave the country.