Welcome to the dark side....

[Phoenix Stone]

So I've been trying to figure out my fit in bdsm and all, and how to work it with a long-term relationship -- and incidentally, how I got here from there. And why certain things I got involved in to my regret had such a powerful impact.

Present theory: that what works for me about non-consent, oh, hell, about rape fantasies, is the same thing that did it for me about a taboo direction I started going in. That they are both Wrong. There are so few things I really believe and feel to Be wrong, sexually. Kinda narrows the field.

So, if I'm not going to think about kids and animals, and I'm not, that only leaves -- what? For me, rape and betrayal, ie. some sort of non-consensual fooling around outside of a relationship. So, that's my bad. What's yours? (Assuming my present theory is correct, I'm hoping someone will have something I've missed that I like better. )

1. Does being Bad do it for you, and what part is bad to you?

2. I'm hoping to have found a loophole, that the Actuality of hurting someone (even someone who wants to be hurt), or the same for getting truly hurt myself, maybe bloodplay or something, might be powerful enough to work, to, even if bdsm, per se, doesn't strike me as wrong, due to the consent.) Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Xelebes]

But it's too dark mammy!

Anywho, I'm not getting what you're asking. Maybe when I get some shut-eye and some fresh eyes, I'll be able to get what you're asking better.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Mama, maybe. But not to you.
Mammy...where you from, boy? South? (edited to shake head and add, 'oh my Lord!')

It's likely my post isn't very clear Xelebes. Often, especially when I'm still thinking something through (and if i had it figured out, why bother to start a thread?), it helps to get responses from others, even the confused -- if that makes sense. Then I go back and edit and fix that first post, so later readers get a better question.

Second try: For me, the button I need to push seems to be 'Wrongness.' Doing, or thinking about, things that are sexually related, yet perceived by me as wrong or bad for Anyone to do, not just things I don't enjoy personally. As I don't believe what truly pushes our buttons is changeable, and as there aren't too many things I really think are wrong sexually, I was hoping to get ideas. Maybe I'll like something someone else comes up with that hadn't occured to me to use. (Wrong but not so wrong to me that I'd have to become celibate rather than go there regularly, even mentally. )

And secondly, does this ring any bells for anyone else? Does anyone else have to go to their shadow side to get off? Or all we all happy little faery woodland creatures, busily and gaily whipping one another, in the bright meadow sunshine? (And when I go There, the saytrs are jumping the fairies, and telling them they wanted it. )

 

[patrick1]

'Torture'. That's a word that does it for me. It's the antithesis of what I'm like in regular life: to be the torturer. But it's an idea I'm fixated on, a word, from the first moment when I was little more than a child when a dream popped into my head out of a book about slaves and linked itself up with the erotic somehow...

What do you then do in your life? Me I'm a sort of innocent: I've only had one day of real life bdsm experience, though plenty of hours of sharing stories out here in cyberspace. The sharing stories is good, you learn how you might negotiate, compromise. But it does strike me that the dream might be unrealisable. That that's part of the point too. You can't be raped, and enjoy it. I can't be the torturer, and enjoy it. Our consciences and moralities are too strong.

Does this make any sense?

patrick

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Mammy...where you from, boy? South? (edited to shake head and add, 'oh my Lord!')

Naw darlin', that'd be Lordy down South.

Second try: For me, the button I need to push seems to be 'Wrongness.' Doing, or thinking about, things that are sexually related, yet perceived by me as wrong or bad for Anyone to do, not just things I don't enjoy personally. As I don't believe what truly pushes our buttons is changeable, and as there aren't too many things I really think are wrong sexually, I was hoping to get ideas. Maybe I'll like something someone else comes up with that hadn't occured to me to use. (Wrong but not so wrong to me that I'd have to become celibate rather than go there regularly, even mentally. )

If you're nice, and she's up to it, maybe osg will come in here and rock your world.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Maybe I'm dense or something. I don't understand the dilemma.

I have no dark side.

It's like I said before, elsewhere... I think we spend way too much time pseudo-psychoanalyzing ourselves and not enough time just enjoying how and what we live and those people who matter to us.

I can't imagine being any other way than how I am. I don't know why I'm submissive, but I'm glad I am and I like me this way.

 

[Technodivinitas]

I think about that a lot, PS, and for me, I don't think it's "wrongness" that works so much as taboo-ness. Psychologically & spiritually, I have a strong belief that taboos themselves are a "wrongness", especially when they're broad or general. I suppose, (and this answer is appearing for the first time in my mind as I type,) that even though my Christian upbringing was relatively sparse, we do live in a culture that is extremely influenced by various forms of Judeo-Christian morality, and those influences leave a certain stamp upon us. As such, I think subconsciously, I have a drive to break and abolish the "rules" of a morality which I believe (very personal- let's not argue religious beliefs here,) to be fundamentally flawwed. (In fact, I believe that virtually all of Humanity's established "Right & Wrongs" are flawwed, in that they are established fundamentally on the drive to "civilize", or to be able to live in close proximity to one another, and thus are self-perpetuating, rather than actually solving any ethical dillemas at all.

Wow- am I esoteric, or what? Let me put that into example, so that I'm hopefully a little clearer in meaning: We are taught/ingrained with the behavior that to take things that don't belong to us is wrong, and yet, while most people aren't thieves, I believe that most people don't steal NOT because it is hurtful to another's well-being and happiness, but rather because we know that it's just not acceptable to behave that way, and we'll likely meet negative consequences if we do. To actually solve the problem of stealing, a more effective and broader reaching solution would be to ingrain in each of us a love, respect, and compassion for others. Most mainstream religions at least try to instill that value, and yet they seem to maintain the fall-back position of "Don't do that or you'll go to hell," which, being the louder message, tends to drown somewhat the basic, "Play nicely" message, and imho, is rather self-defeating in the long run.

I believe I'm driven to stick my hand in this particular fire not because I need to know that it's hot, but rather because I don't believe I should blindly accept that it's hot simply "Because I (or anyone else) Said So."

Am I making sense, or simply rambling?

Oh yeah- and more consciously, I dig not the wrongness, but rather the raw animalistic drive of it. I guess that ties in to what I just said as well: (Wo)Man is an animal, just like all the other animals, and we are entirely driven by instinct toward power-exchange. Stripping it bare and letting that animal urge to struggle with Dominance, both externally & internally, is gratifying on a scale with dancing naked in a rainstorm, and to hell with the lightning!

 

[Kajira Callista]

The dark side just fits. I dont see it as wrong, i wouldnt want it if it felt that way to me. Ive felt ashamed and wrong much too long because of who i am, i dont like being the "bad girl". I want to be understood and accepted for just who/what i am. As for being brought up and being taught right from wrong...or where religions place fits into this... i know i was taught it is wrong to judge another person and i know that God made me so what i am and what i want cant be so wrong. Well thats just how i see it. There is more pleasure in being accepted and desired for who i am and what i need.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Wow, Techno, Thank you!

You gave me some other ways to think about it as well as an interesting post to read.

I'm not settled on my whys and wherefore yet, thus the question and thread. And I wish I had your empowering view, very positive! It gave me the idea to try (masturbating to a sample theme is the test at this point) say the image of sex on a religious alter, to the shock and outrage of the congregation. Will see if that works and get back to you. If so, I like that one Much better than those others I mentioned.

At this point, though, I suspect the hotbutton has to do with Exactly those points you mentioned of what I consider True wrongs. Meaning the real kindergarten lessons that I believe in of keep it friendly, keep it safe. Even with the religious example above I suspect that what would get me hot about it is the very thing that would keep me from doing it in real life, or even truly wanting to. Not so much that I'd go to jail, but that I'd make some people feel bad for no good reason.

It's like, for me, I was told that sex is about Badness -- quite early -- so I said all right, it's Not sex if it's Not bad. And if it Is truly bad, it must be sex. And what I do consider bad is hurting people, like in your stealing example. The stealing per se isn't why I wouldn't do it, it's because it's causing harm to someone else. So maybe it's putting myself on the horns of an ethical dilemma, maybe I Have to only do, or think of doing, what I wouldn't do, to get that hot. A strange form of masochism? An incorrect lesson learned that I can't unlearn? Dunno.

It does make me wonder what it would be like to purposely hurt someone who wants to be hurt. Never tried that. (And it Ain't about to happen with my hubbie! He's very self-preserving, and Does Not like being hurt.) Ok, so I'll fantasize. Never really put myself in the fantasy, guess I'll try that to. And report back. (Ok, so there's some unexplored exhibitionism in there, too. Again, because foisting onesself on others, being out there where people can't help but look, imposing -- is something that feels very wrong to me. Hmm. Wonder about being outthere on stage where it was welcome? )

Thanks all.

 

[Technodivinitas]

Pheonix Stone said:

It's like, for me, I was told that sex is about Badness -- quite early -- so I said all right, it's Not sex if it's Not bad. And if it Is truly bad, it must be sex.

Hey, now. Stop makin' me internalize so much! I wasn't taught young that sex was wrong/bad, however- I was a bit of the tramp in high school, and for the classic reason: I was a social outcast, and discovered that if I put out, I was accepted, at least for the duration of the act. (Plus, I didn't notice the ostriscization it earned me, since I didn't have much of a social circle to be ostriscized from...) But as I grew older and continued those behaviors, the increasing grown-up in me that wanted respect started crying out against that behavior and wanting longer-term satisfaction, and I did actually come to feel as if sex was supposed to be dirty. And since (due to my promiscuous history) plain old sex was pretty shrug inducing and casual, I guess that did leave me feeling like dirtier, nastier, raunchier would make for better sex. Hey- lookitthat! I was right! *LOL*

 

[DarkLadyOfDeath]

Sounds how my outlook on things was when I first discovered that being tied up and haveing sex was.. well not common.. but common enough it had a name and others open about it.

I wasn't getting any of the pain I desired.. so my mind just went nutz getting more and more into "darker" and darker things.. that once put into practice some where simply unfoceable in the near future. I've learned to take my steps with where I am at now and work towards my goals?.. gods do I sound like a self help book writer. somebody whap me.

I Guess what I'm saying is The more I learned about things the more I realized such avenues though make deliciouse fantasies are not practical 'nore necissarily even doable. The idea of asphixiation gets me abit riled but is it something my body and mind could handle? Very doubtful.

I came to the conclusion with it all more or less and it's held true for me. I want to know my limits and test them.. by useing my mind it.. narrows what I'm looking to try.. and if some fantasy I've had just doesn't turn me on more then once.. it's thrown out the door.

just my perceptions.

ps. The kid and animal thing.. Well that just proves your saner Then some. I think?..

 

[A Desert Rose]

The dark side just fits. I dont see it as wrong, i wouldnt want it if it felt that way to me. Ive felt ashamed and wrong much too long because of who i am, i dont like being the "bad girl". I want to be understood and accepted for just who/what i am. As for being brought up and being taught right from wrong...or where religions place fits into this... i know i was taught it is wrong to judge another person and i know that God made me so what i am and what i want cant be so wrong. Well thats just how i see it. There is more pleasure in being accepted and desired for who i am and what i need.

Yep.. that about sums it up for me, too.

I have enough stuff in life to keep on top of. I just want to let this part of my life go and flow and enjoy it as it is.

 

[Technodivinitas]

So, if I'm not going to think about kids and animals, and I'm not, that only leaves -- what?

Well, it's not technically, (nor neccesarily) an animal thing- Have you considered depersonalization/objectivization/animalization?
i.e; Being transformed/transforming another into an object/animal, or in the case of depersonalization, simply removing/having removed one's identification as an individual and/or their relevance?

My Master did the latter to me once, as a punishment. Removed my speech and eye-contact first, then my stature- commanded me to remain beneath his knee-level- then took away my collar, my name, and even my gender. At that point, he simply behaved as if I were less than even furniture, and went about his daily business in the house. I took that for about 2 hours before I actually had to safeword. Very intense.

Worship is another option (and a frequent fantasy of mine.) The Master informs you of and demonstrates to you that your entire purpose of existance is to serve them in X fashion, and that you should set your mind in that track. In my case, it usually involves oral & anal service, with the natural functions of those orifaces not denied, but rather deprioritized. (Goes very well with asphyxiation/breath control fantasies, I've found.) Along these lines: Your mouth was made to please your Master's cock, and all other functions are incidental. You can breath through your nose, so your mouth isn't neccesary for that. You need to eat, but only to survive to serve the cock. Anything beyond that is a privaledge granted by your Master... (I can carry that line of thought pretty far. )

Considering this, do you find that concepts can serve as well or better than specific fantasies? I often fantasize about my Master doing various things to me, but that it's not the act but the underlying psychological concept that really turns my gears. Like the worship thing above. Giving head is giving head, (or having it forced upon you,) but if you add the intent of that concept, even if he doesn't say so aloud, it triples the hotness factor... I rankle sometimes at considering myself a "slave", and at using the word "Master", and yet, to heat it back up, all I have to do is consider the Will, Intent, and Power of the one who chose to require it of me. (There I go- gettin' wet at the thoughts!)

 

[patrick1]

Perhaps it's the writing bug that makes me feel the issue is more about story than about concept. I feel the illustrations to the theory more keenly than I feel the theoretical ideas here.

A related notion to depersonalisation which I like to play with - but have never done - is to imagine a woman bald. On the head, I mean (just to clear the other places out of the way). It's an unexpectedly important part of identity, worse than ostensible torture, some say, the hair on the head. Of course, some wear baldness with pride, but that can be a big journey, from the joy of hair to -

ADS questions whether all this mental turmoil is worth the effort. I suppose (see other posts by other men in other threads) one clear thing is that some sadistic men have had to do at least a bit of internal psychoanalysis, otherwise they'd have turned out as violent rapists instead of regular fellows with weird fantasies. But after that, you have to grope through the shadows to find out what you feel and don't feel.

patrick

 

[bridgeburner]

I have to admit to a certain fascination with wrongness but that's not a particularly sexual fixation for me. It's a moral gymnasium and I find it fascinating on all levels. It doesn't make me libidinous but it does touch something visceral in me.

Why do I like rape and torture fantasies? I don't know. It goes back into my earliest childhood. When I was about 3 or 4 I was in daycare at a church for a few months. During naptime they'd haul out the green mesh, aluminum frame cots and lay all the kids down and turn out the lights. As a child I was not much for napping. Before naptime every day I'd ask for a Kleenex and all during naptime in the near-pitch black I'd make up stories playing with my hanky on my finger-tip like it was a little woman.

Generally it was a variation on the theme of being kidnapped by bad-guys. I was particularly excited by the idea that they'd make thimbles out of her nipples. How horrid is that?

What a creepy little kid, and yet, even teasing other kids could make me sick to my stomach. My moral code of how people ought to be treated is pretty staunch. It always has been. My empathy has been a stumbling block in a lot of ways, but I don't really wish it was any other way. I have no respect for those who truly abuse and take advantage of others. It offends my sense of fair play.

I've always loved ghost and horror stories. They're exciting in a sexual way. The danger, the sense of the world being just a thin veneer over turmoil. Certainly it's melodramatic, but as long as it's smart melodrama then I'm all for it. It makes my blood sing.

That primal urge of fight or flight followed swiftly by the drive to rut like beasts to perpetuate one's genes. What has that got to do with dutiful Saturday evening, Missionary pokes under floral-print duvets?

So that's all a long and convoluted way of saying that I don't find the seeming wrongness of things sexy. I'm not particularly reactionary in that way. I don't have the energy to be perverse just for it's own sake. I only do perverted things because I like them.

I suppose that's my mind really is Episcopalian rather than Roman Catholic, eh?
-B

 

[Phoenix Stone]

So, if I'm not going to think about kids and animals, and I'm not, that only leaves -- what?

Well, it's not technically, (nor neccesarily) an animal thing- Have you considered depersonalization/objectivization/animalization?
i.e; Being transformed/transforming another into an object/animal, or in the case of depersonalization, simply removing/having removed one's identification as an individual and/or their relevance?

Thanks. Yeah, I think there's something there. It reminds me that there was one other category of story I liked besides other stories besides non-consent. (and ONE light romantic bdsm at bdsmlibrary.com -- the finding of which was SUCH a relief! It was like Wow! I'm Normal! I like BDSM!
But then, after that one, most of the bdsm stories didn't do much for me. Too much focus on bondage and blood and making a slave. Guess those weren't Wrong enough for me! Not enough that was non-consent, or on turning someone, twisted stuff. Sigh. STILL can't explain.)

Anyway, the other category I've been attracted to is Non-Human. Full Moon Rising, a werewolf story and others. I thought it was light romantic but my husband said it was too non-consenty for him. And, uh, that was the part I liked.

My Master did the latter to me once, as a punishment. Removed my speech and eye-contact first, then my stature- commanded me to remain beneath his knee-level- then took away my collar, my name, and even my gender. At that point, he simply behaved as if I were less than even furniture, and went about his daily business in the house. I took that for about 2 hours before I actually had to safeword. Very intense.

My guy grew up in Montana with all brothers. Such behavior is only natural to him. Seriously, if I don't instigate something, he could go for days like that. Montanans don't make a lot of eye-contact. He could and has worked alone indefinitely.
And he can have sex every day, if I request it or make a fuss, or go for months without approaching if he thinks it's necessary. Like after kids for medical and sleep reasons. He just toodles along, self-contained and doing his own thing. No problem. We were having sex twice a day for a while, on my request. And I don't know how long he can go without because I always give first.
People think he's an extrovert because he seems so comfortable, friendly etc. It's just total control. He's amazing. And I'm left to figure this out on my own, which is why I'm being so intellectual and pyschological about what is essentially a physical animal thing. He's not very patient and will tune me out if I don't make it short and sweet and doable. So. (Weird thing is, he loves me madly and fought like hell in mean and funny ways to keep me, the one time things got kinda shaky. So, I just have to work around his needs the way he tries to work around mine.)

Worship is another option (and a frequent fantasy of mine.) The Master informs you of and demonstrates to you that your entire purpose of existance is to serve them in X fashion, and that you should set your mind in that track. In my case, it usually involves oral & anal service, with the natural functions of those orifaces not denied, but rather deprioritized. (Goes very well with asphyxiation/breath control fantasies, I've found.) Along these lines: Your mouth was made to please your Master's cock, and all other functions are incidental. You can breath through your nose, so your mouth isn't neccesary for that. You need to eat, but only to survive to serve the cock. Anything beyond that is a privaledge granted by your Master... (I can carry that line of thought pretty far. )

Yes, I am so There with you, girl. That worship thing gets me. I beg to beg. And to be allowed to worship. I haven't really asked it directly or phrased it right I think, to know whether he'd go for this one or not. So far it seems like not. At least not body worship. He's too busy enjoying mine, playing with his toy (as he's more of a doer than a doee). And if I'm not careful, he can see my trying to serve him as a manipulation, I think. He likes me to serve by remembering to do nice things like chores. He did like me drying him off so there's some hope. But if I get carried away, he sees it as manipulation again, and he likes to be in charge. What's with that? Am I really a domme married to a non-sub? dunno.

[
Considering this, do you find that concepts can serve as well or better than specific fantasies? I often fantasize about my Master doing various things to me, but that it's not the act but the underlying psychological concept that really turns my gears. Like the worship thing above. Giving head is giving head, (or having it forced upon you,) but if you add the intent of that concept, even if he doesn't say so aloud, it triples the hotness factor... I rankle sometimes at considering myself a "slave", and at using the word "Master", and yet, to heat it back up, all I have to do is consider the Will, Intent, and Power of the one who chose to require it of me. (There I go- gettin' wet at the thoughts!)

Definitely. I do that trick all the time of thinking of it in a certain way to up the heat factor. Problem comes when you're fantasy and reality are at opposite extremes. One thing I miss is that feeling of illicitness all day. If I can simmer all day, I can jump right in and be hot at night quick -- like dh would prefer -- our average foreplay in the old days was at least 45 minutes and more typically an hour, when he'd rather it be about 3 minutes. Sex was about an hour and a half. He has a LOT of self-control.
Thing is, he Hates to think about sex outside the bedroom and I Love to. It feels like I never quite get where I need to if I'm starting from zero there. I mean I can cum, but it's more like a sneeze. And I don't get those rushes of turnon like I now know is possible, from pushing right buttons.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Perhaps it's the writing bug that makes me feel the issue is more about story than about concept. I feel the illustrations to the theory more keenly than I feel the theoretical ideas here.

Certainly the particulars and examples help the most to understand what people are talking about when they use some abstract concept, and also to find out what moves you. Yet once you have few items, a mere handful perhaps, if you are in a situation like mine, extrapolating back to concept can be a good shortcut to get to more of what works. (I'm married to someone who would be vanilla if I hadn't gone here, but who is willing to give things a try if I leave him out of the figuring out process, don't play with others, and bring the info to him succinctly.)

A related notion to depersonalisation which I like to play with - but have never done - is to imagine a woman bald. On the head, I mean (just to clear the other places out of the way). It's an unexpectedly important part of identity, worse than ostensible torture, some say, the hair on the head. Of course, some wear baldness with pride, but that can be a big journey, from the joy of hair to -

Certainly sounds like a humiliation game. And quite a public one. The vulnerability side of that has a certain appeal, too.

ADS questions whether all this mental turmoil is worth the effort. I suppose (see other posts by other men in other threads) one clear thing is that some sadistic men have had to do at least a bit of internal psychoanalysis, otherwise they'd have turned out as violent rapists instead of regular fellows with weird fantasies. But after that, you have to grope through the shadows to find out what you feel and don't feel.

patrick

Groping through the shadows is definitely where I am.

One thing making it particularly difficult is that I've been there, where I wanted to be, feeling it all day, just right. Only the means were no good. Not a place I will go willingly. So now I'm left to figure out what it was about that scenario that so powerfully lit my psyche for that brief while. And if there are any other roads there.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Yep.. that about sums it up for me, too.

I have enough stuff in life to keep on top of. I just want to let this part of my life go and flow and enjoy it as it is.

It's great that you and KC feel like you do about it.

For me, it isn't working like it is, and going with the flow would mean going back to the old way that was in many ways like being the walking dead.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Naw darlin', that'd be Lordy down South.

'Pends on your neighborhood I think. My mother's family said all sorts of interesting things during those summer visits to Texas. 'Oh Foo-ot!' was the closest Grandma ever came to swearing or taking the L-rd's name in vain, fer instance.

If you're nice, and she's up to it, maybe osg will come in here and rock your world.

Nice is for high-school yearbooks.

Osg and I have conversed -- despite my niceness meter frequently operating on low volume -- and it's always interesting.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Sounds how my outlook on things was when I first discovered that being tied up and haveing sex was.. well not common.. but common enough it had a name and others open about it.

I wasn't getting any of the pain I desired.. so my mind just went nutz getting more and more into "darker" and darker things.. that once put into practice some where simply unfoceable in the near future. I've learned to take my steps with where I am at now and work towards my goals?.. gods do I sound like a self help book writer. somebody whap me.

I Guess what I'm saying is The more I learned about things the more I realized such avenues though make deliciouse fantasies are not practical 'nore necissarily even doable. The idea of asphixiation gets me abit riled but is it something my body and mind could handle? Very doubtful.

If Im understanding you correctly, yes, I think both that I'm taking things to mental extremes because I'm not getting what I need physically, and that small steps in the general direction are more workable and a better idea, rather than leaping to some extreme end. Thing is, guess I need some goals to work toward. Also, some of those fantasies have the seeds of ideas in them. Like though you wouldn't tke it that far, wouldn't knowing that your PYL knows your interest, and then having him/her gently caress your neck, do something to you? Or deep-throating. My favorite is when he's right over me so I can't control how deep and how long he's there, and it's hard for me to breathe, so that I gasp for breath between thrusts.

I came to the conclusion with it all more or less and it's held true for me. I want to know my limits and test them.. by useing my mind it.. narrows what I'm looking to try.. and if some fantasy I've had just doesn't turn me on more then once.. it's thrown out the door.

So is that narrowing a good or bad thing? Sometimes you might throw out something you'd actually like in rl because it didn't do much for you in fantasy, but it can give you a starting place for those stronger urges.

 

[shy slave]

Interesting thread PS

Its got my head going round and round in circles, but still cant figure out where I am in all this. I was brought up Catholic and now I am a practising Spiritualist. I don't go for the witchcraft stuff but the light/angels stuff. Catholics would say BDSM is bad (despite nuns with their whips), so ingrained in me is bad. Its doesn't feel bad, though thoughts of it used to and I struggled for years to come to terms with these 'bad thoughts.' On a good day I am almost with ADR and KJ on the subject but on not so good days I am with PS. Alot of my thoughts are tied up with the need to shock, whether that be surprising myself on how much I can take of pain/humiliation etc; or shocking others with things I would like to try. Master is the first person I have found unshockable, in fact He thinks my fantasies of watersports, humiliation, bondage, lack of self-worth mild. It is because of Him i no longer know what turns me on and would now never say never. I have the confidence to explore who and what I truely am sexually. He is also the first person to ever verbalise praise to me regarding work achievements. This is important as, for a long time, I thought if I allowed myself to be de-based sexually it would affect other areas of my life in a negative way..thankfully I was wrong PS not sure if this even touches on what your asking but its what has been running in my mind since I read your first post. Techno Your posts make sense to me~is that a good or bad thing lol

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Osg and I have conversed and it's always interesting.

osg can overlook a lot ... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/2cool2.gif

 

[A Desert Rose]

It's great that you and KC feel like you do about it.

For me, it isn't working like it is, and going with the flow would mean going back to the old way that was in many ways like being the walking dead.

Why would you be going back to "old ways?" Don't you have limits in your life... boundaries?

And I certainly don't view my life as the walking dead.... whatever that means in reference to my post.

 

[shy slave]

Why would you be going back to "old ways?" Don't you have limits in your life... boundaries?

And I certainly don't view my life as the walking dead.... whatever that means in reference to my post.

Hav I read this wrong?
Thought PS was referring to how HER old ways made HER feel like the walking dead.

How on earth could she know how it feels for you?

Everyone's 'old' and 'present' ways are unique, with someover lap to other peoples' ways aren't they ?

 

[shelleb4]

for me its about badness! The badder the better, as either top or bottom.
Thanks to a fridgid mother, with fridgid views about sex ("letting your husband have sex with you is just something you have to get through") everything is bad!

The slave thing does nothing for me. Though i have never met anyone who would inspire this behaviour in me, so who knows? But for someone to seek to be my slave? Im not sure that respect for them would survive this. Having 3 dependants of the child variety in real life, makes a futher dependant an unattractive option. Perhaps later, when im less sucked from in real life.

My ultimate would be two or more, all bringing their own agenda, determination to fulfill that in a sexual way, er? two dom/mes.

I know so little about bdsm, but what i have learnt is that, for me, its not the right fit, but it fits better than anything else ive ever heard of. In another life, perhaps id be fortunate enough to find a experienced bdsm sexual partner and it would all make sense then, but thats not this life.