Weird hypothetical question

[Trionyx]

We are one major cyber attack from having no internet again. Life will be sheer chaos until the powers to be can get it up and running again.

 

[Statius]

Here's a question within this question. How many books haven't been written because of the Internet? Is that good, bad? If I had a question back before Internet days I could go to a bookstore and browse for hours. Now the bookstores where I live don't carry half of what they did in the late 90s and early 2ks.

To answer the question, I think it'd be a tough transition but I would be ok; my tech use, except at work, I'd rather limited.

 

[IWroteThis]

Here's a question within this question. How many books haven't been written because of the Internet? Is that good, bad? If I had a question back before Internet days I could go to a bookstore and browse for hours. Now the bookstores where I live don't carry half of what they did in the late 90s and early 2ks.

To answer the question, I think it'd be a tough transition but I would be ok; my tech use, except at work, I'd rather limited.

I don't think it's a case of fewer books being written, but how much harder it is for a brick and mortar to make margins in the current market. I certainly wouldn't blame a lack of movies being made for why the movie section is so much smaller these days in stores.

 

[Bamagan]

Here's a question in a similar vein: what will you do if, or when, the internet is no longer human-searchable? What I mean is, website addresses like literotica.com are a complementary layer of navigation that aren't strictly necessary from a technical perspective, what with IP codes and the like. I can imagine a scenario where Google, Microsoft, and the others, in a continuing effort to justify their massive outlays on AI, redesign their browsers and search engines such that an AI concierge is the only way to find anything anymore. They'd probably justify it as streamlining and enhancing speed and relevance or some-such marketing-speak. It'd make it a lot easier for them to partition away the parts of the internet they don't approve of, as well.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Here's a question in a similar vein: what will you do if, or when, the internet is no longer human-searchable? What I mean is, website addresses like literotica.com are a complementary layer of navigation that aren't strictly necessary from a technical perspective, what with IP codes and the like. I can imagine a scenario where Google, Microsoft, and the others, in a continuing effort to justify their massive outlays on AI, redesign their browsers and search engines such that an AI concierge is the only way to find anything anymore. They'd probably justify it as streamlining and enhancing speed and relevance or some-such marketing-speak. It'd make it a lot easier for them to partition away the parts of the internet they don't approve of, as well.

We're definitely heading for an internet that's designed for machines, not people. AI or some pseudo-AI search layer, interacting with users to serve content, but the content itself with be abstracted down a level, fewer videos and images and more data to be delivered to AI to give to us. I'm not referring to LLMs necessarily when I say AI in this context, it could be searches that collate the data rather than use an LLM to construct it, or to find videos matching criteria. It's not unlike what we have now, but think that instead of the links taking you to the websites, the website content is brought to you without ever having to go to the site.

It's an absolute death-knell for content creators who aren't the ones who know how to manipulate the algorithms, or the ones the companies/governments don't want you to see, or not mainstream enough for the machines to bother with. The algorithms will be incentivized to give you not what you want, but what is close enough while still making them money, either through ads or more likely simply by offering it to the highest bidder, all automated. "Who's willing to pay the most money to deliver baby goat videos to this person?"

And you will struggle to find any content yourself, because that part of the internet isn't designed to be human-readable anymore, it's just designed purely to be trawled by spiders, bots, and AI.

Which is why sites like this are great. Sure, it's not the most modern, but it provides easy access for all sorts of weirdos who like kinky niche shit, and you can go search for it yourself. It's not curated and plopped in front of you while being told, "This is absolutely the best thing I can find and I'm totally doing it off of your best interest and not some person paying me $0.12 to serve this to you."

It's messy, but by God, it's human.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For a lot of neurodivergent and/or queer folk, the Internet is how we found our people. Outside of family and one friend from school, just about everybody I'm close to is somebody I met online.

In the no-Internet alternate timeline, I'd be sadder and lonelier.

 

[TheLobster]

What I mean is, website addresses like literotica.com are a complementary layer of navigation that aren't strictly necessary from a technical perspective, what with IP codes and the like.

Nope, that’s not correct at all. Google Search did not obsolete DNS; at best you can say that it layered over it, just like the current extra indirection of LLM-based prompt parsing is a layer over Google Search.

That’s how it works in IT in general. Entrenched, foundational technologies don’t go away, and instead they’re painted over with a newer, sometimes better and typically more user-friendly facade.

The layers underneath are still there and accessible. I can still craft my bespoke, artisanal, sustainably sourced and environmentally friendly IP packets and send them to whatever literotica.com resolves to. This isn’t going to change.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

There's an interesting group in Barcelona called Low-Tech Magazine. Their entire web site is run on a solar powered server. Obviously, they depend on their (probably not as sustainably powered) ISP for connection to the larger world, but it's proof it can be done.

 

[TheLobster]

There's an interesting group in Barcelona called Low-Tech Magazine. Their entire web site is run on a solar powered server. Obviously, they depend on their (probably not as sustainably powered) ISP for connection to the larger world, but it's proof it can be done.

That's hilarious. Solar panels are like the most high-tech kind of energy generators, if only by the sheer amount of exotic elements that go into making them.

If they really wanted to go "low tech", they'd power their servers by burning peat or something.

 

[old_prof]

There are people whom I only have internet contact with that I would miss enormously. And I'd just gotten used to this idea of publishing stories online.
There would be lots of inconveniences, like not being able to pay all my bills online.

But I think losing contact with people would dwarf everything else. Phone conversations may not always be viable.

 

[Erozetta]

So, I've been thinking about this some more (it's a good question with a lot of potential paths) and I've come to realize I'm the type of person who would make an effort to reconnect with the people I knew online through newspaper and magazine advertisements. (Assuming I knew their interests and/or general location.)

I imagine it would be a low return, but to make the effort of creating a path of reconnection would be important to me.

I would be the type to put out the initial contact and leave it to others to respond as they wished. All they'd have to do is write to a physical address with a code in the advertisement they saw, an explanation of who they were and a piece of their writing they wanted included.

Optionally, they could open a return address for me to respond directly to, and I'd assemble the stories received and former usernames into a zine, sending copies to each participant and more to pass around. Large initial investment to reconnect with like 5 or 6 of the people willing to respond, lol. But to open that path of connection again would be important to me.

As it is, two people from here have my phone number and would be able to maintain contact with me if the internet went down. A few more have my real name. If phone lines went down, one knows my address and many should be aware of my general location given how often I mention it. (I'm north of Boston in a coastal city.)

 

[IWroteThis]

Here's a question in a similar vein: what will you do if, or when, the internet is no longer human-searchable? What I mean is, website addresses like literotica.com are a complementary layer of navigation that aren't strictly necessary from a technical perspective, what with IP codes and the like. I can imagine a scenario where Google, Microsoft, and the others, in a continuing effort to justify their massive outlays on AI, redesign their browsers and search engines such that an AI concierge is the only way to find anything anymore. They'd probably justify it as streamlining and enhancing speed and relevance or some-such marketing-speak. It'd make it a lot easier for them to partition away the parts of the internet they don't approve of, as well.

It won't happen. For one thing, it wouldn't stop people from accessing the same sites as before. You'd just have to type in a number rather than a name.

More importantly, it would break a lot of things, and the most important is the IP pool. With host names, you can host multiple web sites on a single IP Address. Take that away, and suddenly we're back to needing a unique IP Address for every web site. They're already pushing for IPv6 due to the limited number of IPv4 addresses, and this would probably overwhelm IPv4. It would also heavily impact load balancing, but I won't try to explain that one.

Also, just like most of the current browsers were born in the garage, so to speak, a new generation of browsers would rise up to replace the no-longer-usable ones. While it might be the Wild West on the Internet, the Internet itself is very tightly standardized and documented. Chrome, Edge, and Safari all might make some different choices in rendering HTML (although they shouldn't), but they all talk the exact same protocol to the web server to get that HTML code to render.

I've never written anything as complex as a browser, but I have written code to pull various images (daily free comics) and create a file for my browser to display them all on a single page. Requesting a page from a web server is simple. It's the rendering it for display that is complicated.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

If they really wanted to go "low tech", they'd power their servers by burning peat or something.

Then someone would come along and say their CPUs are too high tech and suggest using vacuum tubes instead.

 

[SissyBrandi19]

I been kind of keeping up with how data centers consume obscene amounts of water, like hundreds of billions of gallons annually, and then the UN recently release statements warning of extreme water shortages for the peasants, aka us.

That made me wonder, if every data center was obliterated into dust and the internet vanished, then what would my life be like without the internet?

So that's what I'm asking. If the internet vanished, what's your life look like?

...

For me, I think I would still write and make music, but I don't think I'd try publishing erotica like a real book in stores. Maybe I would try to find or help create a local community of smut enjoyers who can exchange printed stories for fun, but I'm still not sure. I would also probably be getting back into Magic the Gathering or trying DnD, and spending a lot of time trying to learn how to jar and pickle things, like peppers, cucumbers, eggs, cabbage, etc.

I'm Gen X - we grew up analog and also ushered in the digital era, so...I'd be great! It would be nice to write and compose and not have that ever-present annoyance of a question "Is that AI?" looming. Of course, I say that ignoring what all of us are ignoring, the massive disruption in all utilities, distribution of goods, banking, etc...it'd be temporary and I have many firearms, so...

 

[metropolinational]

For a lot of neurodivergent and/or queer folk, the Internet is how we found our people. Outside of family and one friend from school, just about everybody I'm close to is somebody I met online.

In the no-Internet alternate timeline, I'd be sadder and lonelier.

This would be by far the biggest loss. There was real isolation for millions of people before the internet.

However, there is absolutely no reason that communities like this one can't be recreated offline now that they exist online. I think an analog version of online communities could exist:

1. before s-day (shutdown day), get a list of the mail addresses in the online community.
2. after s-day, send all 2000 members (just as an example) a letter inviting them to write you back if they want to be part of the group. membership is $5 a month.
3. people send in messages - art, drawings, puzzles, poetry, erotic stories, whatever the group does. some include their addresses and invite people to penpal them.
4. you collate into a newsletter and send back to everyone at whatever frequency you've all agreed, but most commonly monthly.
5. eventually, newsletter services arise who manage all this.
6. eventually, these services put out catalogs of groups that you can join
7. eventually, these groups organize meetups at bars, public libraries, etc.
8. eventually, some of these groups decide to facilitate regular communication with other chapters and contract with wire laying companies to lay out fiber optic cable between two towns.
9. the network grows. no servers. peer to peer communication between groups. free, uncensorable. unmoderated.
10. the government and the quisling karen networks panic. they want to shut it all down. they crack down. they overplay their hand. Guevara's Foco theory plays out, and the revolution starts.
11. the trees of freedom are appropriately watered with the blood of tyrants
12. utopia is established

 

[AlexBailey]

I live in a small mountain town that was almost completely cut off from electricity, internet, and outside communication for nearly three days during catastrophic fires a few years ago.

Starlink wasn’t a thing yet so when a major relay cell tower and land line data was damaged the local library’s backup generator and satellite connected WiFi was the only public communication hub.

The few roads in and out of town were closed by flames so the shelves of the grocery stores were emptied the first day. Neighbors were reaching out to others, offering food and places to stay for anyone who was stranded. People moved about slowly, no hurry, and would look each other in the eye, sincerely asking how they were doing.

The library became the main social hub for the community, and there were usually so many people hanging around trying to get a connection that buffered video and even voice was intermittent at best.

Connection to the outside world was mostly gone but communication and compassion within the community rose to a level I’ve never seen before or since.

I had four teenagers living in our house at the time and bunch of friends came over several times for potluck and jam sessions. It felt like another time in history.

Wavy Gravy once said, “There’s always a little bit of heaven in a disaster area.” I know exactly what he meant.

 

[AlexBailey]

4. you collate into a newsletter and send back to everyone at whatever frequency you've all agreed, but most commonly monthly.
5. eventually, newsletter services arise who manage all this.

Growing up as a pre-internet closet queer kid, finding local queer news letters was key to feeling like I wasn’t alone. It was the only way I heard about related events or ideas outside of school and family.

My first writings were anonymous contributions to some of those rags.

 

[ArdentHemingway]

Are the data centers consuming all this water located in places where there's a population whose mouths they're taking it out of?

Or are they located in places where there is ample available water and not any impact on that local population?

I can't tell if this is a real issue or not. There is lots and lots of clean fresh water in the world. It's just that there are lots of people who don't live near it.

I don't think it's really an issue. The water doesn't get destroyed. At worst it just has to be filtered again.

I live in Phoenix, AZ and work for a high-tech enterprise. Around here, we're concerned about what the mines do to our water.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Then someone would come along and say their CPUs are too high tech and suggest using vacuum tubes instead.

At least vacuum tubes will survive the EMP pulse, and will still work in a thousand years. Along with vinyl records. Not so sure about the digits .

 

[old_prof]

I don't think it's really an issue. The water doesn't get destroyed. At worst it just has to be filtered again.

My understanding (and I am willing to be told I'm wrong on this) is the what is meant by water consumption is what is lost in the evaporation process for cooling. No the water is not "destroyed" but it is taken from the local hydrology and deposited (as rain) elsewhere.

Given the real fights over keeping enough water for Phoenix, I would think this would be a big concern.

 

[metropolinational]

and I am willing to be told I'm wrong on this

yikes. I had been operating under the assumption that consent was not needed for this!

 

[Britva415]

The water doesn't get destroyed

It gets lost to the atmosphere. Cooling towers are so energy efficient that the expense of the water is worth it, even when it can't be recaptured.

Which is "always," when it comes to cooling towers. Re-condensing it for recapture is the opposite of efficient.

Energy wise, anyway. Obviously it would be more water efficient, but again, relative costs make it inefficient, money wise.

Expense, energy, and material: This is one of those "pick two out of three" situations you can optimize for.

 

[Aussieguy8]

Both me and my partner have been moving away from the internet and it turns out we are both a lot more creative and driven when detoxed from it.

As someone old enough to remember the preinternet time of the 90s (well some of them), you'd likely remove a lot of the enshitification.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The world without the internet. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

 

[Britva415]

There is a hell of a lot of things information which doesn't disappear. People would go back to the physical libraries and use print material if necessary to recreate digital technology and networks again.

It probably wouldn't even take too long.