Weird and Lovin' It

sweetnpetite

Intellectual snob
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I love stuff about word origins:)-

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19971031

I've always been amused by the fact that Shakespeare calls the witches in "Macbeth" the Weird Sisters because I have one of those myself. Tell me, though, is it true there's a noun form of "weird?" Perhaps as a synonym of "witch?" If so, is it usable? Now that I think of it, this is a good Halloween question.
Excellent and timely question indeed. The development of the word weird is one of those questions that language people love to answer, because it's very interesting. And much of the blame for the word's history can be put on Macbeth itself.

Not only is it true that there's a noun form of weird, but the word was originally a noun. Weird meant 'destiny' or 'fate' in Old English, and it was also used as a noun referring to the three Fates, the goddesses of classical mythology who determined the course of human life. In Middle English (and later) it was chiefly a Northern or Scots word, and its other senses include 'a witch or wizard; soothsayer'; 'one's destiny (that is, one's own destiny, as opposed to the broad power by which events are determined)'; and 'an event or occurrence' (often in the proverb "after word comes weird").

From about 1400 on, weird was used in the phrase the weird sisters in reference to the Fates. In Macbeth Shakespeare used this phrase in his portrayal of the Fates as witches, and the phrase weird sisters became more widely known. The word also became interpreted as an adjective meaning 'concerned with or controlling fate or destiny', the same process that upsets so many people when applied to words such as fun.

By the early nineteenth century, this adjectival sense was extended to mean 'supernatural; unearthly; mysterious; uncanny; strange or unusual'. The poet Percy Bysshe Shelley seems to have been rather fond of it; he used it many poems in various ways, and probably popularized it at the time. At present the 'strange or unusual' sense is the only one in general use; the senses referring to fate or supernatural involvement are either archaic (or becoming so) or chiefly Scottish.
 
Weird meant 'destiny' or 'fate' in Old English

Og, O Keeper of the Full OED: Can you confirm this?

Logophilically, Joe.
 
I seem to recall that a weird can be a fortune teller. I have no idea why I think this.

Gauche (waiting for Og or Godot whoever is the sooner)
 
Sub Joe said:
Og, O Keeper of the Full OED: Can you confirm this?

Logophilically, Joe.


OED definitions of weird as a noun:

1a. The principle, power or agency by which events are predetermined, fate, destiny.

1b. Magical power, enchantement.

2a. (plural.) The fates, the three goddesses supposed to determine the course of human life.

2b. One pretending or supposed to have the power to foresee and to control future events, a soothsayer.

3a. That which is destined or fated to happen to a particular person, etc., one's appointed lot or fortune, destiny.

3b. (plural.) as 3a often in reference to a single person.

3c. An evil fate inflicted by supernatural power, esp. by way of retribution.

4a. A happening, event, occurrence.

4b. That which is destined or fated to happen; predetermined events collectively.

5a. A decree of a god. (obsolete)

5b. An omen or token significant of a future event, a prognostic (obsolete)

5c. A prediction of the fate which is to happen to a person; etc., a prophecy.

5d. A supernatural or marvellous occurrence or tale.

6. In combinations weird-man - a seer; weird-woman - a witch.

Og

Edited for PS: That probably killed this thread.
 
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I have access to the OED online. Here's weird as a noun.
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1. The principle, power, or agency by which events are predetermined; fate, destiny.

Beowulf 455 Gæ a wyrd swa hio scel. Ibid. 477 Hie wyrd forsweop on Grendles gryre. c888 ÆLFRED Boeth. xxxix. §5 Ac æt æt we wyrd hata, æt bi Godes weorc æt he ælce dæ wyrc. a1000 Seafarer 115 Wyrd bi swire, meotud meahtira, onne ænes monnes ehyd. 13.. E.E. Allit. P. A. 249 What wyrde has hyder my iuel vayned. 13.. Gaw. & Gr. Knt. 2134 Wore hit wele, oer wo, as e wyrde lykez hit hafe. a1400-50 Wars Alex. 443 at sygnyfys e same man at sett is, be wird, So many prouynce to pas. c1470 HENRY Wallace IX. 244 As werd will wyrk, thi fortoun mon thou tak. c1585 MONTGOMERIE Sonn. xxxiii. 1 Vhom suld I warie bot my wicked weard, Vha span my thriftles thrauard fatall threed? 1603 Philotus c, Quhat wickit weird hes wrocht our wo? [1895 W. MORRIS Beowulf 16 Weird wends as she willeth. Ibid. 17 Weird swept them away.]

b. Magical power, enchantment.

1813 HOGG Queen's Wake 79 He heard the world of awsome weird, And he saw their deedis of synn.

2. pl. The Fates, the three goddesses supposed to determine the course of human life.

c725 Corpus Gloss. (Hessels) P. 15 Parcae, wyrde. c1385 CHAUCER L.G.W. 19 Hypermnestra The werdys that we clepyn destene Hath shapyn hire that she mot nedis be Pyetous sad. c1450 Crt. of Love 1173, I mene, the three of fatall destinè, That be our werdes. 1483 Cath. Angl. 420/2 Wyrdis, parce. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis I. i. 30 Gif werdis war nocht contrair [si qua fata sinant]. 1547 SURREY Æneis IV. 581 (Roxb.) Fiij, The werdes withstande [fata obstant]. a1585 MONTGOMERIE Flyting 326 ‘Woe worth’, quoth the Weirds, ‘the wights that thee wroght!’ 1632 LITHGOW Trav. i. 5 And whilst from Phleg'ran fields, the weirds me call, I in Elisean plaines, am forc'd to fall. 1722 RAMSAY Three Bonnets II. 13 Ye're grown sae braw: now weirds defend me! 1855 SINGLETON Virgil I. 29 ‘Career ye on,’ Have to their spindles cried..the Weirds [Parcae].

b. One pretending or supposed to have the power to foresee and to control future events; a witch or wizard, a soothsayer.

1625 HEYLIN Microcosmos (ed. 2) 509 These two..were mette by three Fairies, or Witches (Weirds the Scots call them). 1654 VILVAIN Enchir. Epigr. II. lxxx, The 2 Scots courtiers who met three Wierds or Witches which foretold their fortune. 1682 C. IRVINE Hist. Scot. Nomencl. 12 Arioli. Weards, Sooth-sayers, or Second-sighted-men. 1834 A. SMART Rambling Rhymes 164 Puir auld wives..Were seized in Superstition's clutches, An' brunt to death for wierds an' witches. 1899 J. SPENCE Shetland Folk-lore 143 With this green nettle And cross of metal I witches and wierds defy.

3. That which is destined or fated to happen to a particular person, etc.; what one will do or suffer; one's appointed lot or fortune, destiny.
Often in to dree one's weird: see DREE v. 2c.

c725 Corpus Gloss. (Hessels) S433 Sortem, wyrd, condicionem. c888 ÆLFRED Boeth. xl. §1 Ic wille secan æt ælc wyrd bio good, sam hio monnum good inc, sam hio him yfel ince. a1300 Cursor M. 3453 Strang weird was giuen to am o were at ai moght noght air strif for-bere. Ibid. 9968 Had neuer womman sa blisful wird..As maria maiden. 13.. Gaw. & Gr. Knt. 2418 Dalyda dalt hym hys wyrde. c1400 Ant. Arthur xvi. (Irel. MS.) ‘Ways me for thy wirde!’ cothe Waynor. c1450 St. Cuthbert (Surtees) 4680 ai grett, ai sorowed air sary werde. c1470 HENRY Wallace IV. 761 My waryed werd in warld I mon fullfill. 1535 STEWART Cron. Scot. I. 109 Euerie ladie passit hame..Weipand full soir and wareand hir werd. 1563 SACKVILLE Induct. Mirr. Mag. lxiii, It made myne iyes in very teares consume: When I beheld the wofull werd befall, That by the wrathful wyl of Gods was come. a1600 MONTGOMERIE Misc. Poems xlvi. 31 They haif wroght my weird Vnhappiest on eird. 1718 RAMSAY Christ's Kirk Gr. III. viii, It's a wise wife that kens her weird. a1774 FERGUSSON On Seeing Butterfly Poems (1845) 18 Those Whose weird is still to creep, alas! Unnoticed, 'mang the humble grass. 1795 BURNS ‘O tell na me’ iii, Let simple maid the lesson read, The weird may be her ain. 1818 SCOTT Hrt. Midl. xii, My weird maun be fulfilled, Mr. Butler. 1892 J. A. HENDERSON Ann. Lower Deeside 79 The weird of this kirk is that it will fall in time of worship. 1909 BELLOC Marie Antoinette 255 It was one more of those hammer-blows of Fate exactly coincident with the sequence of the Queen's weird.

b. pl. (often in reference to a single person).

a1300 Cursor M. 15279 e gait it es al graid, He mai sai wirdes warid at forwit him es laid. 1320-30 Horn Ch. 456 Wiif thai toke, and duelled thare; In Inglond com thai no mare, Her werdes for to bide. c1340 HAMPOLE Psalter lxxiv. 5 Sum says it was my werdis; sum says the sterne of my birth gert me syn. c1374 CHAUCER Boeth. I. met. i. (1886) 1 The sorful wierdes of me olde man [maesti mea fata senis]. 1390 GOWER Conf. II. 94 Whan thei at mi nativite My weerdes setten as thei wolde. 1393 LANGL. P. Pl. C. IV. 241 As hus werdes [v.r. wirdus] were ordeined. 1423 JAS. I Kingis Q. ix, So vncouthly hir werdes sche deuideth. c1470 HARDING Chron. LXXXV. iv, Fortune, false executryse of weerdes [= Chaucer Troylus III. 617], That euermore..To all debates thou strongly so enherdes. 1571 SIR J. MAITLAND in Satir. Poems Reform. xxvii. 102 Then warreitt war thy weirdis and wanhap. 1579 Sc. Acts Jas. VI (1814) III. 140/1 That they can tell air weardis deathis & fortunes.

c. spec. An evil fate inflicted by supernatural power, esp. by way of retribution.

[a1300 Cursor M. 8981 Bot hard it es, e wird o sin at yarked was til adam kin!] 1874 ‘OUIDA’ Two little Wooden Shoes 132 Swallows do not tell their secrets. They have the weird of Procne on them all. 1877 TRENCH Lect. Med. Ch. Hist. 178 But a weird was upon him and upon his race. 1885 J. INGELOW Sleep of Sigismund 7 The weird is on him to grope in the dark with endless Weariful feet for a goal that shifteth still.

4. a. A happening, event, occurrence.
Prov. after word comes weird, the mention of a thing is followed by its occurrence or appearance.

a900 Cynewulf's Christ 81 Ne we ære wyrde wenan urfon toweard in tide. 971 Blickl. Hom. 221 a elamp wundorlic wyrd æt se le ongan slean & brecan onean one wind. 1390 GOWER Conf. I. 340 It were a wonder wierde To sen a king become an hierde. c1450 St. Cuthbert 5459 It befell is wondir werde. 1721 J. KELLY Sc. Prov. 2 After Word comes Weird; fair fall them that call me Madam. 1883 HALL CAINE Shadow Crime xxxvi, Weel, weel; after word comes weird. That's why the constables are gone, and that's why Robbie's come.

b. That which is destined or fated to happen; predetermined events collectively.

c1470 Golagros & Gaw. 1082 Thair wil nane wyis, that ar wis, wary the werd. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis III. vii. 48 Bot we from werd to werd and chance mon wend. 1876 W. MORRIS Sigurd I. 3 A tale that the elders have told, A story of weird and of woe.

5. a. A decree (of a god). Obs.

a1400-50 Wars Alex. 270 e werdes Of my gracious goddis, e grettest on erde. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis XII. xii. 202 And thou, Tellus, mast nobill God of erd, Hald fast the speris hed by our werd.

b. An omen or token significant of the nature of a future event; a prognostic. Obs.

1513 DOUGLAS Æneis XII. xiii. 150 Jove..bad hir hald doun baldly to the erd, For to resist Juturnais ire and werd [L. omen]. 1533 BELLENDEN Livy (S.T.S.) II. 233 e senat..said ai acceppit e weird at followit one ir wourdis.

c. A prediction of the fate which is to happen to a person; etc.; a prophecy.

1785 Poems Buchan Dial. 18 Altho' his mither, in her weirds, Foretald his death at Troy. 1802 C. GRAY Poems (1811) 73 Then, as to his fortin tellin',..he ne'er liket to be sellin' His weird for wind.

d. A supernatural or marvellous occurrence or tale.

1814 W. NICHOLSON Poet. Wks. (1897) 40 [She] Could tell her tale or lilt her sang,..Wi' weirds and witcheries aft atween, And unco sights that some had seen. a1859 A. TAIT in Jas. Watson Living Bards of Border 151 What legends and weirds these fair scenes still awaken.

6. Comb., as weird-fixed, -set adjs.; weird-licht Sc. the light of destiny; weird-man, a seer; weird-woman, a witch.


1819 W. TENNANT Papistry Storm'd (1827) 181 Now was come the *weird-fix't hour Ordain'd to break the Papish power.
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1844 W. THOM Rhymes & Recoll. 54 There's a bricht e'e looks love to me, Like the *weird licht o'er me shining.
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1806 JAMIESON Pop. Ballads I. 238 ‘Dire is the doom’, the *wierd-man said; ‘Nae mair, O lady, speir!’
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1819 W. TENNANT Papistry Storm'd (1827) 46 The *weird-set day begins to daw.
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1845 J. E. CARPENTER Poems & Lyrics 34 The *weird-woman had stol'n away.
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Here are other weird forms listed in the OED:

weird, n.
weird, a.
weird, v.
weirddom
weirdie
weirdish, a.
weirdless, a.
weird-like, a.
weirdly, a.
weirdly, adv.
weirdness
weirdo, n. and a.
weirdsome, a.
weirdward, a.
weirdy, a.
 
sweetnpetite said:
what's the oed?

There's no wonder you're asking all these word questions.

As Rowan & Martin might say "Look that up in your Funk and Wagnells"

Gauche (The Oxford English Dictionary)

Edited to re-title the 60s/70s comedians.
 
Hey, Gauche, is there a YED (Yorkshire English Dictionary)? It would come in handy at times.

seriously, Perdita
 
oggbashan said:
The Oxford English Dictionary. The full thing with all the recorded words used in English.

Og

Yeah, the thing that Webster's aspires to be ;)

Raphy, making a quick exit :nana:
 
No need to run, Raph. I doubt any English lexicographer or editor aspires to the OED, it'd be silly; but certainly a Webster's or F&W is more affordable. Me, I use the 'shorter' OED and other versions, and am grateful I have online access to the full one.

Perdita
 
I'm grateful that Perdita has on line access to the full one.

I have a photographically reduced one which I have to read with a magnifying glass and my reading glasses. That's OK for a word but not for retyping full definitions and quotes.

For most things I use the Concise OED or my CD-ROM shorter.

Og
 
I wonder if it includes the spivak pronouns (and the word itself)

Anyone want to volunteer to look it up?
 
sweetnpetite said:
I love stuff about word origins:)-
Tell me, though, is it true there's a noun form of "weird?" ... or chiefly Scottish.
From memory only (don't have a suitable reference to hand) I believe there's an expression something like "To dree y'r wierd" (Scots?) meaning to follow your destiny.

f5
 
CharleyH said:
"If I only had a brain . . . "

You and me both sweetheart:D Fancy seeing if we can f*** some brains into each other:devil:

On a serious note, I've yet to get my head round the fact that since taking up my new employment, I now have unrestricted access to every publication and journal owned by, subscribed to, or published by Oxford University. All official, my university ID card opens all the electronic locks to all of the libraries in the Uni. Including the Bodlean, Radcliffe, and Sackler, and gives me full membership of the University. Bit too posh for a thick old bastard like me, doubt I'll read much of it... well I might.
 
pop_54 said:
On a serious note, I've yet to get my head round the fact that since taking up my new employment, I now have unrestricted access to every publication and journal owned by, subscribed to, or published by Oxford University. All official, my university ID card opens all the electronic locks to all of the libraries in the Uni. Including the Bodlean, Radcliffe, and Sackler, and gives me full membership of the University. Bit too posh for a thick old bastard like me, doubt I'll read much of it... well I might.

There must be a Yorkshire Dictionary in that lot just in case someone with an Oxford accent actually wants to talk to a person from Yorkshire - unlikely I know, but theoretically possible. If so, Perdita would appreciate a link.

Og
 
The thing about 'weird' is that it's weird because it violates the "i before e" rule.


---dr.M.
 
Geez, Mab. Violates is such a harsh term for a word. I like that weird does it though.

Perdita

p.s. Pops, get me access to that Yorkshire dictionary and I'll pay you very well. :kiss:
 
dr_mabeuse said:
The thing about 'weird' is that it's weird because it violates the "i before e" rule.


---dr.M.
Is that a rule? Doesn't a bunch of words then?

#L
 
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