Was Iverson Wrong?

[Andra_Jenny]

That brings up a thought about the recent controversy over photo id of superbowl participants. I could see a similar policy having disasterous effects at any Raiders-Eagles game. I mean, yeah, the stands would be short a few criminal elements, but so would the bench!

 

[Grrrn38]

Has anyone heard about a proposal to use technology to scan people entering the Olympic events at Salt Lake City for criminal backgrounds? They organizers are running into some problems with the idea (apparently civil rights exist even in Orrin Hatch-ville).

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Yes, it has caused quite a fear among season ticket holders in Oakland and Philadelphia. After all who wants to go to the game only to be arrested on outstanding warrants!

 

[TonyG]

Andra_Jenny

Do you not like Philadelphians?

 

[TonyG]

Originally posted by R Nitelight
Did anyone see where Jimmy Buffett was thrown out of the arena in Miami last night during the Heat-Knicks game for heckling the officials?

Have you read where Pat Riley has stated that the ref was wrong in throwing Buffett out because he is a 'good luck charm'. Riley also said that he believed Buffett did not say anything 'all that bad'.

I bet the result will be that the ref will not be allowed in that arena for a game anymore.

 

[R Nitelight]

tony_gam

From what I understand, the Buffett ejection was a direct result of the Iverson incident.
In order to cut down on confrontations with unruly fans, the Refs have been given greater discretion in tossing the paying customers out of the arena.
Obviously not a Parrothead, the Ref had some loud, verbally abusive guy escorted out. It only became news when the celebrity status of the ejectee was revealed.

 

[RonG]

Regarding Iverson, there is not universal agreement on what was said to him by hecklers. Security in the area says no racial slurs were involved. Iverson tossed out the race card two days later. Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe was courtside and he said on ESPN's SportsReporters that he didn't know anything was happening until the media kerfuffel two days later. Do stupid things get said and include racial comments? Sure, but Iverson used the race card to excuse another screwup on his part. Similar to his apology of "I'm sorry if I offended anyone" after his rap music came out.

I saw an excellent discussion of the computer scanning of patrons at the Super Bowl. Several constitutional scholars agree that fans at a sporting event are equivalent to bags of trash at the curb as far as their expectation of privacy. An analogy that works on so many levels.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I have nothing against Philly

I was stationed at Thom's River and went into the city of brotherly love often. But they are the ones with a court on the premises I do believe... So whenevr bashing Oakland, who I (or whom) I truly hate, (Bite me Al [not gore]), I just throw Philly in for the fun of it.

 

[livin_simple]

I'm not a professional sports fan and I'm offended by the gross amounts of money spent on salaries and tickets for professional sports.

But the athlete is a person with a family earning a living with skills that are rewarded in a grossly distorted value system our society has created. Because he is a person he deserves to be treated with basic dignity and respect.

I believe the coach failed this player. The role of the coach is just like the role of a parent. He is to demand the best of his players, but he is also to protect his players. The coach should have been the person to tell the hecklers to knock it off, if they persisted the coach should have demanded their removal

I personally see in the behavior of fans and players an increasing similarity between our professional sports and the circuses of the decaying Roman empire. Not that that opinion belongs on this thread.

 

[TonyG]

Originally posted by livin_simple
...I believe the coach failed this player. The role of the coach is just like the role of a parent. He is to demand the best of his players, but he is also to protect his players. The coach should have been the person to tell the hecklers to knock it off, if they persisted the coach should have demanded their removal

I have to agree with you. I coach several sports teams and if someone is bothering one of my team members, I get on their case. The very least that the coach should have done was to ask security to remove the hecklers; that way he avoids a verbal confrontation with them. But, since they were the visiting team, would the security force have honored a request of that nature? Maybe he did ask and they said no.

 

[DriveSouth]

Get Out!

Do you know anything about sports? NBA in particular? There is no way in hell that Iverson's coach would have gone to bat for him. Iverson, though talented, has proven to be a thorn in the side of his coach. Perpetually demanding special treatment. Late or no show at team meetings/practices/functions ... basically the "I've got more talent than anyone else on the team so treat me different." syndrome. No, coach Larry Williams will not come to the defense of Iverson, nor should he.

Again, these teams are on a stage. What if someone began heckling Kenny G, the heckler would be remove promptly and the show would go on.

Come on atheletes - stay in character and play the damn game!

 

[TonyG]

Unfortunately, I was not watching the game and I won't just rely on home town papers, so I can only assume that it was being dissruptive to the whole team. Yes there is bad blood between the two of them but a response by the coach, to security, would have been to keep the team focused not to protect Iverson. I have seen this done at pro football and baseball games. Hell there have been some games stopped by the umps until a fan has been removed for being disruptive at the dugouts. What about the time the outfielder (can't remember his name) was hit in the head with a bottle last year. I have even watched a pro football game on TV that was stopped because of too much liter being thrown onto the field. The owner pleaded with the fans over the loud speakers to stop.

The precedent does exist in sports for coaches, etc. to speak up and protect their team.

These comments do not mean I agree with Iverson's conduct.

 

[DriveSouth]

I'll give you that one, but they'll never stand up for a trouble maker like Iverson, that is a job for the players union. LOL

 

[Grrrn38]

Re: Get Out!

Do you know anything about sports? NBA in particular? There is no way in hell that Iverson's coach would have gone to bat for him. Iverson, though talented, has proven to be a thorn in the side of his coach. Perpetually demanding special treatment. Late or no show at team meetings/practices/functions ... basically the "I've got more talent than anyone else on the team so treat me different." syndrome. No, coach Larry Williams will not come to the defense of Iverson, nor should he.

You're right, there's no love lost between Larry Brown (not Williams) and Iverson. But like him or not, Brown realizes Iverson is his meal ticket this year and isn't interested in his best player not being able to play. He can't control the opposing team's security and beyond asking the refs to intervene (which he did), he's powerless.

The heckling isn't limited to the floor -- Brown has his very own hecklers at Indiana (where he used to coach), and one really nasty woman sits directly behind him at every game and gets progressively nasty as the beer goes down.

The one thing I don't understand about people who think this behavior is OK is the racial aspect. Why are racial epithets OK in this venue? Anyone?

 

[DriveSouth]

I'm not sure anyone is claiming that they are ok, even in this venue. Just that using one does not give a professional athelete freedom to punch someone out.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

What was it Stormy Weathers said in "From the Hip," ... for that much money, slap ME!

 

[*Eve*]

I believe the fans and Iverson were equally at fault. Just because you pay to see a game it doesn't give you the right to call people names and act like asses. Iverson, didn't have to stoop to their level, that for sure but don't equate what he did to how much money he makes. Because he makes millions of dollars he's suppose to put up with people's abuse? He's human too. So what if he makes a lot of money. Basketball players make a lot of money. Deal with it.

 

[Phoenix]

First off you notice how many people said Iverson is wrong but most of them never played a sport on a collegiate or professional level. They do not know that when you reach a certain point in sports people go from fans to assholes really really. People begin to think that since they plunked down X amount of money that now for the next 48+ minutes they own a piece of you and that is wrong. Just because he makes millions does not mean he loses the right to be treated like a human being

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Whoa, I play a sport at the top level. Just last year at 42 I won two tournaments against people half my age and I do it for fucking peanuts because I LOVE THE GAME. I would take any amount of shit to play the game and if I were lucky and could take home millions for me and my family, I'd haul momma's ass down there so the fans could heckle her too!

 

[TonyG]

Getting off the subject

I am curious as to what sport you play, if you would care to share?

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I cannot. I live in the Bible Belt in a sparsely populated area and too many clues could wreck an otherwise perfect life. The only hint I can give is that it is very physical, you have to be in top shape, and it has a hell of an adreniline (sp?) rush.

My most sincere apologies.

 

[TonyG]

You have me intrigued; I will have to do some research. If I have a guess I will e-mail it to you so as not to give any clues. I would not expect a yes or no from you. Is that ok?

 

[Expertise]

Whoa, I play a sport at the top level. Just last year at 42 I won two tournaments against people half my age and I do it for fucking peanuts because I LOVE THE GAME. I would take any amount of shit to play the game and if I were lucky and could take home millions for me and my family, I'd haul momma's ass down there so the fans could heckle her too!

Not at a top level but I used to play at the university (your collegiate level) and heckling/verbal abuse/belittling etc was to be expected.

You didn't have to like it (although sometimes it could be hilarious) but you did have to take it. If you have/had what I would deem an acceptable level of focus it wouldn't bother you (much). In fact it was oft times a motivator for me and others (more often others with more talent than I). It gave us great joy to nod, wink, wave or point at the scoreboard and see these idiots turn red with anger.

Sure there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. But basicly as long as you didn't hurl anything at me or touch me (both of which I have experienced) I accepted it as a "part of the game". Racial epithets are unacceptable or anything that disturbs the enjoyment of the game for those around the heckler (fans not athletes). I have been called evrything from a crossdresser to a gigolo been called a goon and a pussy, been told that I suck, I blow and that I "like" animals. I've been asked where my girlfriend was because the home teams bench looked short 5 or 6 players....

When you're actually playing most people (again focus comes in to play) don't hear much beyond their team mates voices, if anything, anyway. Between plays or during breaks you should be able to tune out the goofs....especially when you're getting paid mega-bucks to do it.

We actually had a pizza delivered to our most notorious heckler (an old lady named Gladys who had a season ticket to the single seat beside the "visitors" penalty box at this particular arena. She was a complete shrew with a metal on a chalkboard voice and a propensity for ringing a "cow bell" in your ear the entire time you sat there).
We paid to have the pizza delivered at the end of the second period. When we saw the pizza being delivered as we exited the ice, the entire team stopped and waved at her. She waved back then opened the box, did a double take and hurled it on to the ice........ It was extra cheese with heavy anchovies and coffee grinds.

Revenge is a dish best served cold...... or at least after the end of the second period.

 

[WebDesignGuru]

Security can throw you out for heckling. Just ask Jimmy Buffet who was tossed from the Heat/Knicks game this past weekend.

You can't go shouting racial / sexual preference slurs on national television and expect not to get some heat for it.

If a white player had dersively called an obnoxius fan the "N-word" on national television, I doubt Iverson would've been okay with that.

If one elects to be a professional entertainer, being able to turn a deaf ear to the heckling is part of the job. Also, whether it's fair or not, being a professional athlete does carry with it the responsibility of being a role model for kids to some degree. I don't think it's the message you want to send to the legions of pre-teen hoops fans that the correct way to deal with verbal abuse is to hurl profanities and slurs back at the asshole.

He could've walked over to a security guard at courtside and asked them to remove the fan. He could've gotten a Sharpie and a basketball and signed it, "Does your mother know you talk like that? Love, Allan Iverson" and handed it to the fan. He could've just been a man and walked away from it.

The problem with this situation isn't that fans abuse the proximity to the players, which they do, or that people don't realize that people in the national spotlight are just that, People, which they are.

The problem is Allan Iverson's continuing poor judgement and immature behavior, which is tolerated and indirectly condoned by his team and the league because he scores a lot of points.

How many of us can honestly say if we were on national TV representing our company and called someone something offensive of that ilk, we would have a job the next morning?

I'm pretty sure my employer would frown upon my behavior, suggest I re-assess my career goals, not give a crap what was said to me to instigate my reaction, and hand me my walking papers.

Iverson has continually received unbelievable latitude in regards to his behavior that I am sure would not be extended to the average man, or even the average player on his team. He has faced weapons charges, drug charges, put out a rap album laden with offensive slurs, etc., etc., etc..

He's not alone in these offenses, it's a problem that riddles professional sports. Star athletes are exempt from the consequences of their actions starting as early as grade school. They are further exempt from the responsibilities that are common to everyone. Basic things like common courtesy, decent behavior, etc.

What boggles my mind is the lack of appreciation people of such great fortune have for their position in life. They are extended every possible advantage from an early age, given a free ride to an expensive private university, handed millions of dollars, all because they could bounce ball significantly better than the other 7th graders. Yet, they fail to realize that the fans pay for all of that. It isn't just the $300 for the courtside seat, it's the billions of dollars in television revenue for college sports, the jerseys & hats parents buy and kids wear.

In exchange for all this great fortune, they are unwilling to accept the mantle of role model, to turn the other cheek, to consider the rammifications of their actions, to stay out of night clubs, fights and strip joints, or to put down the damn bong.

Amazing, ain't it?


Ed

 

[Expertise]

Well said Ed.