Was I right to say this?

[snooper]

I received a request through the Lit VE list today which read (red bits are censored out to keep anonymity):


EDITED TO DELETE PERSONAL EMAIL AND NAME OF THE PERSON



[/color]MY REPLY WAS AS FOLLOWS:

Quoting X
>
> Message:
> Hello there. Thank you for your time in considering my request. I'll
> get strait to the point, my grammar and spelling are atrocious,
...
> I am not looking for someone to edit my content, just handle
> some grammar issues
...

There are two sorts of editors:
- literary editors who comment on texts at the level of reader reaction, pick up continuity errors (like character discrepancies), and generally try to help a writer to improve their work by pointing out things the writer herself will miss;
- copy editors who confine themselves to orthography in its widest sense.

Most of the Volunteer Editors do both. In the real world of publishing, copy-editors get paid well, and Literary Edotors are only available for very large sums of money, and usually only for very well-established writers.

Since you seem to want only a copy-editor to correct your work, I suggest you go to http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/ where you will find information on how to find a (paid) copy-editor.

I regret that life is too short for me to waste my time doing free copy-editing.

Regards Snooper (aka Charmbrights)

MY QUESTIONS ARE:

Do other experienced editors think I was too hard on this writer?

Does being in the Lit VE list imply that nothing is too basic for me to do for free?

 

[LadyCibelle]

MY REPLY WAS AS FOLLOWS:

Quoting X
>
> Message:
> Hello there. Thank you for your time in considering my request. I'll
> get strait to the point, my grammar and spelling are atrocious,
...
> I am not looking for someone to edit my content, just handle
> some grammar issues
...

There are two sorts of editors:
- literary editors who comment on texts at the level of reader reaction, pick up continuity errors (like character discrepancies), and generally try to help a writer to improve their work by pointing out things the writer herself will miss;
- copy editors who confine themselves to orthography in its widest sense.

Most of the Volunteer Editors do both. In the real world of publishing, copy-editors get paid well, and Literary Edotors are only available for very large sums of money, and usually only for very well-established writers.

Since you seem to want only a copy-editor to correct your work, I suggest you go to http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/ where you will find information on how to find a (paid) copy-editor.

I regret that life is too short for me to waste my time doing free copy-editing.

Regards Snooper (aka Charmbrights)

MY QUESTIONS ARE:

Do other experienced editors think I was too hard on this writer?

Does being in the Lit VE list imply that nothing is too basic for me to do for free?

Snooper,

Don't know what anyone else will say but I know that I would have replied the exact same thing as you now. I've said it to a few writers who asked for my help and I didn't feel an ounce of guilt in saying so. Voluntary doesn't mean nor should it imply that we're willing to do anything and everything. As important as orthography is for a story, if the writer can't even do the most basic editng of his/her story and tells you so upfront, I don't see any reason why you couldn't reject his/her request.

 

[jtmalone70]

**********

 

[sophia jane]

I'm not a VE, so I can't comment on the procedures of that. But I can say that my impression has been that many of the people who want a VE only want a proof-reader or someone who will make sure their story is accepted to lit. I'm extremely fortunate to have an arrangement to edit and be edited by a great writer/editor. I've been asked by others (usually friends from the boards) to do an edit for them, and I always ask if they want a proof or a thorough edit. I've done thorough edits for people (and I mean really worked my ass off for them) only to be ignored. Very frustrating.

So I would second what's been said already- proof your own work as best you can. And don't sign up for a VE if you aren't planning to listen to, consider, and incooperate the suggestions given to you.

 

[Guest]

 

[Alex756]

I think it was harsh.

Grammar checkers are very fallable programs as are spell checkers. Sometimes a second set of eyes really is the only cure.

There is a difference between not caring and 'doing your best' which this author said they would do.

Heck I've had word try to screw up my grammar beyond all belief, especially in dialog.

We all miss stuff, and hopefully we go through it enough times to make it a smaller amount of stuff, but I've missed things on papers I've read outloud (my best editing trick) and had it pointed out in time for a re-write, or had a good enough point a typo didn't affect me.

When I read the letter from the author (which I find in poor taste to be reposting BTW since it was a personal email) I got a sense of self deprication that would imply to me the work is much better than insinuated justshe didn't want to oversell herself.

-A

 

[snooper]

... Grammar checkers are very fallable programs as are spell checkers. Sometimes a second set of eyes really is the only cure.
...
Heck I've had word try to screw up my grammar beyond all belief, especially in dialog.
We all miss stuff, and hopefully we go through it enough times to make it a smaller amount of stuff, but I've missed things on papers I've read outloud (my best editing trick) and had it pointed out in time for a re-write, or had a good enough point a typo didn't affect me.
...

Nobody disputes the value of second, third, fourth ... pairs of eyes, but I went into the VE programme with the intention of helping less experienced writers, not solely to play school-teacher correcting spelling and grammar. By and large the feedback I get from authors is that I do give some help beyond seeing typos.

... the letter from the author (which I find in poor taste to be reposting BTW since it was a personal email) ...

I was extremely careful to delete all traces of anything which might identify the writer.

... I got a sense of self deprication that would imply to me the work is much better than insinuated justshe didn't want to oversell herself.

I got the opposite impression. Anyone who says However, my plots are sound, my characters are well developed and the dialogue is realistic. I assure you, I am a very good writer ... does not strike me as deprecating her/his own abilities. I certainly wouldn't say that of myself, and I have had fifteen novels and a computer textbook published.

 

[smy3th]

I think it was harsh.
.
.
.

There is a difference between not caring and 'doing your best' which this author said they would do.
.
.
.


When I read the letter from the author (which I find in poor taste to be reposting BTW since it was a personal email) I got a sense of self deprication that would imply to me the work is much better than insinuated justshe didn't want to oversell herself.

-A

That was exactly my view. She said would do her very best to proof it before sending it. She also said comments on contents (sic) would be well received and humbly accepted. I think the person was embarrased about her grammar and spelling, and wanted to let the editor know in advance that while she would do her best, she was afraid of an editor who would just send it back because the editor thought she hadn't taken any effort on her own first.

She also was afraid of imposing on an editor to do too much. The problem is that many editors say they are really mostly checkers of the mechanics, and reading through the lists of editors, I personally got the impression that asking them to do much more than that might be a real imposition on their time.

I think the person was being very nice, letting you know ahead of time what to expect, and giving you the chance to opt out nicely if that wasn't what you wanted to do.

Instead, you chose to blast her to smithereens. Also, yes, even though you have removed identifying information, I think it was unethical to post her private message. She wrote to you in private, and a private response was all that is appropriate.

I don't know what your resume' says in the editor profiles, but if you feel as you do, you should be upfront about it and let people know that if they just want you to check mechanics, or might have a lot of mechanical errors, please don't bother asking you, because that's not what you are interested in. Be harsh in your resume if you are going to be so harsh to requestors. That way, you probably won't get many requests, and you won't have to worry about it. Maybe, you should just consider whether you really want to be a VE at all. Harsh of me?

 

[thegirl]

removed reply as original was fixed

 

[Penelope Street]

Was I right to say this?

I'm not sure if one can categorize the response as either right or wrong, but it's not what I would have done.

It's difficult for me to determine from the letter what the party in question really wanted, thus I'd have asked for a clarification, especially since the English skills displayed in the letter are not what I would label atrocious. I have a hard time believing a person can produce sound plots, well-developed characters and realistic dialogue without having rudimentary language skills, but I'd certainly have asked for a sample to see for myself. There are worse ways to spend one's time than helping a potentially brilliant writer with her grammar, even if it's just pointing out issues and referring her to various resources. On the other hand, if the person expected me to repeatedly correct atrocious spelling and grammar while making no effort to improve, well, that would be ridiculous.

Regarding whether it was wrong to share the message, I wouldn't have done that either, but it would have been impossible to ask the question without posting the bulk of it. Leaving the person's name was, I hope, an unfortunate oversight, but that sort of thing is the exact reason I wouldn't have posted it. At the very least, I'd edit to remove the name and ask that anyone who quoted/referenced it do the same.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[LadyCibelle]

Clarification on complaints

This post is intended for the people who commented, either here, PMs or email, and/or asked, demanded that I delete this thread and get on Snooper's case for using someone's first name.

Everything on THIS post is my opinion and beliefs and mine only.

Hi,

I’m not too sure what made you so angry about that post but I’ll try address what you’re saying here.
First of all, that person’s first name: How many people are called Shanon? Does knowing someone’s first name means it’s the person YOU yourself know? I don’t see how posting someone’s first name is detrimental to that person, furthermore when the editor made sure to remove everything that could easily identify that person.

Snooper didn’t post Shanon’s email, if he had I’d have taken measure against it and edited his post to delete that mention, but he didn’t. Nothing that he put there can make Shanon easily identifiable by anyone (unless she’d herself say that he’s talking about her, and even then, who’s to prove she’s the right person uh)

On her first name again, most often than not, if I forget to change it, my real name appears on the mail and note I send to writers….so what? If I sign Louise, Julia, Caroline or Tiffany….does it mean that it’s me LadyCibelle? It’s not with just a first name that anyone could identify whose user’s real name is Shanon.

 

[smy3th]

This post is intended for the people who commented, either here, PMs or email, and/or asked, demanded that I delete this thread and get on Snooper's case for using someone's first name.

Everything on THIS post is my opinion and beliefs and mine only.

Hi,

I’m not too sure what made you so angry about that post but I’ll try address what you’re saying here.
First of all, that person’s first name: How many people are called Shanon? Does knowing someone’s first name means it’s the person YOU yourself know? I don’t see how posting someone’s first name is detrimental to that person, furthermore when the editor made sure to remove everything that could easily identify that person.

Snooper didn’t post Shanon’s email, if he had I’d have taken measure against it and edited his post to delete that mention, but he didn’t. Nothing that he put there can make Shanon easily identifiable by anyone (unless she’d herself say that he’s talking about her, and even then, who’s to prove she’s the right person uh)

On her first name again, most often than not, if I forget to change it, my real name appears on the mail and note I send to writers….so what? If I sign Louise, Julia, Caroline or Tiffany….does it mean that it’s me LadyCibelle? It’s not with just a first name that anyone could identify whose user’s real name is Shanon.

I am at a loss to understand how you can say that Snooper didn't post Shanon's e-mail. The only things he apparently removed from it were her user name and e-mail address, leaving her first name (which may or may not be similar to her user name). Whether that is grounds for having the post deleted or not is a something for you to decide, but your definition of "Shanon's e-mail" seems rather hair-splitting. Yes, he DID post Shannon's e-mail. You may not consider that a crime, but it is the fact.

I didn't say so, but now that you bring it up, I found Snooper's post to be one of the most offensive posts I have seen on Lit, and that is going pretty far. Anything you post here is fair game for criticism, but a private e-mail in which you literally open yourself up for criticism, to have that displayed to the world, even if they don't know who you are, well, that's disgusting (sorry to use the 2nd person). His personal and direct response was unduly harsh also, but to publicize the message went beyond the pale.

This thread would certainly make me exceedingly shy about going to the VE system. I don't think I'll try it again, aside from the lack of response I've gotten. I don't want to lay myself open to that kind of ridicule without really getting to know the editor first.

 

[AppleBiter]

I didn't say so, but now that you bring it up, I found Snooper's post to be one of the most offensive posts I have seen on Lit, and that is going pretty far. Anything you post here is fair game for criticism, but a private e-mail in which you literally open yourself up for criticism, to have that displayed to the world, even if they don't know who you are, well, that's disgusting (sorry to use the 2nd person). His personal and direct response was unduly harsh also, but to publicize the message went beyond the pale.

This thread would certainly make me exceedingly shy about going to the VE system. I don't think I'll try it again, aside from the lack of response I've gotten. I don't want to lay myself open to that kind of ridicule without really getting to know the editor first.

Hear, hear! I haven't ever used the volunteer editing program and in light of the intital post on this thread and all of the support it has garnered, I don't think I ever will. I don't want my sentiments to be held up to public ridicule (*Ha! Look at the stupid wanna-be! Doesn't even know what editing is all about!*) or to, God forbid, waste someone else's precious time by submitting material for review, being new to the process, and not understanding fully what to expect from the editing community.

If this is what can be expected, I think I'll pass.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I am at a loss to understand how you can say that Snooper didn't post Shanon's e-mail. The only things he apparently removed from it were her user name and e-mail address, leaving her first name (which may or may not be similar to her user name). Whether that is grounds for having the post deleted or not is a something for you to decide, but your definition of "Shanon's e-mail" seems rather hair-splitting. Yes, he DID post Shannon's e-mail. You may not consider that a crime, but it is the fact.

Lets not split hair here.....EVERYBODY knows that the complaints I've received have nothing to do with the copy/paste of an email message but said clearly that he had posted her E-MAIL (address). HE didn't do it period.

We could argue as to how reprehensible it was of him to post her email message but the point is that to be able to ask the question he asked and get an accurate response he NEEDED to post the message in its entirety otherwise it would only had been hearsay and not fair.

I didn't say so, but now that you bring it up, I found Snooper's post to be one of the most offensive posts I have seen on Lit, and that is going pretty far. Anything you post here is fair game for criticism, but a private e-mail in which you literally open yourself up for criticism, to have that displayed to the world, even if they don't know who you are, well, that's disgusting (sorry to use the 2nd person). His personal and direct response was unduly harsh also, but to publicize the message went beyond the pale.

Offensive why? Because he refused to do something he wasn't comfortable doing? Because he said he wasn't a "ghost-writer"?( yeah it's the way I read it, she needed someone to clean up her act) Because he said he wouldn't do something? Let me remind you (all of you) that WE are VEs, not slaves and it's our prerogative to say no to a request we get!!! Signing up to become a VE doesn't mean we have to bend over backward to lick everybody and their neighbour's boots!!!!

This thread would certainly make me exceedingly shy about going to the VE system. I don't think I'll try it again, aside from the lack of response I've gotten. I don't want to lay myself open to that kind of ridicule without really getting to know the editor first.

 

[smy3th]

Hear, hear! I haven't ever used the volunteer editing program and in light of the intital post on this thread and all of the support it has garnered, I don't think I ever will. I don't want my sentiments to be held up to public ridicule (*Ha! Look at the stupid wanna-be! Doesn't even know what editing is all about!*) or to, God forbid, waste someone else's precious time by submitting material for review, being new to the process, and not understanding fully what to expect from the editing community.

If this is what can be expected, I think I'll pass.

Zackly

 

[Penelope Street]

I didn't see any e-mail address and I don't believe for an instant this person's real life identity was in any jeopardy. However, given the relatively small size of this online community, I think leaving the name is rude. Since Snooper specifically removed the gender, I'm confident that the inclusion of the name was a simple oversight. I'll be surprised if Snooper doesn't agree it's less than polite to leave it.

I'm also confident Snooper must have felt some qualms regarding the issue or he'd not have asked for opinions on the matter. I don't think anyone objected to the denial of the request, some of us just thought the reply was a bit ruder than necessary to get the point across. We've all written, said, and done things we later regret. For better or worse, that's just part of being human. The best we can do is learn and move on.

Perhaps instead arguing more about whether or not it was all a good idea and whose fault it is, we might better put our efforts toward the original issue- finding out what the prospective writer wanted and maybe help her as best we can? I don't have years of editing experience, but if she wants to PM me, I'll have a look at her story.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[smy3th]

Lets not split hair here.....EVERYBODY knows that the complaints I've received have nothing to do with the copy/paste of an email message but said clearly that he had posted her E-MAIL (address). HE didn't do it period.

We could argue as to how reprehensible it was of him to post her email message but the point is that to be able to ask the question he asked and get an accurate response he NEEDED to post the message in its entirety otherwise it would only had been hearsay and not fair.



Offensive why? Because he refused to do something he wasn't comfortable doing? Because he said he wasn't a "ghost-writer"?( yeah it's the way I read it, she needed someone to clean up her act) Because he said he wouldn't do something? Let me remind you (all of you) that WE are VEs, not slaves and it's our prerogative to say no to a request we get!!! Signing up to become a VE doesn't mean we have to bend over backward to lick everybody and their neighbour's boots!!!!

If you don't want to edit someone's work, you can simply say so nicely. I think there is a HUGE range of possible responses that would fall far short of what snooper did, and still come no where close to boot licking or bending over backwards. You don't have to take any editing job you don't want to, but you can at least be civil about saying no.

Look, I was rather hesitant to ask an editor to read my stuff in first place. It took a lot of plucking up of my courage to even ask. I felt inadequate as a newcomer. I didn't know what was appropriate and what wasn't. I can take rejection, and I can take criticism, but to give a whomp like snooper delivered is just arrogant, cruel, and uncalled for. You may read her request as asking for ghost writer. Maybe she was, and maybe she wasn't. If we really wanted to know, we'd have to actually look at her stuff. Frankly, on the one hand, snooper seems insulted that all she wanted was a spell checker, while you think she wanted a ghost writer, which seem at exact opposite ends of the spectrum. Who knows what the truth really is?

I don't mean he posted the address, I mean he posted the e-mail itself. Lit rules say it is forbidden to post private messages. Posting a private e-mail is a rule violation:

http://www.literotica.com/support/forum_rules.shtml

4. You may not post personal information of other members or, for that matter, anyone else. We do not allow phone numbers, email addresses, private messages or quotes from private emails to be posted on the forum. This rule also covers real names, employment info, and any other personal information that we deem inappropriate.

As for snooper not being able to fairly ask the question without posting the message, then he shouldn't have asked it. If he had doubts about whether he should have said what he did, he should have offered an apology.

 

[smy3th]

Thanks for editing out the private e-mail.

I checked snooper's resume' on the VE finding section. It says in part this:

I will comment on structure and characterisation. I am somewhat fanatical about continuity (e.g. Names changing, appearance changing, anachronisms, impossible knowledge, etc.).

I can also edit for grammar/spelling in English or American, but I will not do just spelling and grammar correction.

I think that makes it quite clear that he is not interested in just spelling and grammar. I don't know if this is a new message that came as a result of this question, or if it had been up all along. If the latter, then the requestor obviously didn't pay attention to it, and made a bad choice, and I could better understand snooper's reply. I still think he might have been a bit less hostile. On the other hand, if it is a newly revised message, I would think it would avoid a repetition of the problem

 

[LadyCibelle]

Thanks for editing out the private e-mail.

I checked snooper's resume' on the VE finding section. It says in part this:

I think that makes it quite clear that he is not interested in just spelling and grammar. I don't know if this is a new message that came as a result of this question, or if it had been up all along. If the latter, then the requestor obviously didn't pay attention to it, and made a bad choice, and I could better understand snooper's reply. I still think he might have been a bit less hostile. On the other hand, if it is a newly revised message, I would think it would avoid a repetition of the problem

FYI it has been Snooper's message for a long time. As you said she probably didn't read properly or she didn't care...I guess we'll never know which.

Surpringly, for people who knows the history between Snooper and I (we haven't been looking eye to eye for a very long time ), I don't think it was hostile or uncalled for. Snooper is Snooper and I've come to find out that, just like me, he doesn't mince words and he speaks his mind no matter what. Some people cringe at that, and I respect it, but at least IMHO you know where you're standing with him and there isn't any bad surprise.

 

[snooper]

Leaving a name in was a slip - it wasn't my intention.

I don't feel any guilt about rejecting the request, about the manner of rejecting it, or about posting the query. I genuinely wondered what the other experienced editors thought of my attitude, rather than about the wording.

As to Lady C's amendments, she is the Moderator and her decision is final. If I had been moderator and a post had caused the hysteria which broke out at the end of last week, I would have deleted the thread.

As to Lady C and I not seeing eye to eye, that is largely her imagination. Just because I don't post lots of times agreeing with her, does not mean I don't agree with 95% of what she says. I simply don't seem able to persuade her that I am really a big admirer of how she handles the forum, and of her poetry. On the other hand, I don't think the picture in her Lit Member's Profile does her justice.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Leaving a name in was a slip - it wasn't my intention.

I don't feel any guilt about rejecting the request, about the manner of rejecting it, or about posting the query. I genuinely wondered what the other experienced editors thought of my attitude, rather than about the wording.

As to Lady C's amendments, she is the Moderator and her decision is final. If I had been moderator and a post had caused the hysteria which broke out at the end of last week, I would have deleted the thread.

As to Lady C and I not seeing eye to eye, that is largely her imagination. Just because I don't post lots of times agreeing with her, does not mean I don't agree with 95% of what she says. I simply don't seem able to persuade her that I am really a big admirer of how she handles the forum, and of her poetry. On the other hand, I don't think the picture in her Lit Member's Profile does her justice.

 

[smy3th]

Leaving a name in was a slip - it wasn't my intention.

I don't feel any guilt about rejecting the request, about the manner of rejecting it, or about posting the query. I genuinely wondered what the other experienced editors thought of my attitude, rather than about the wording.

Since I'm not an editor, experienced or otherwise, you didn't ask my opinion in the first place, but I'd just like to point out that there are in fact a great many of the VE's whose resume's say that what they really want to do is check for typos, spelling, grammar and syntax, and they offer nothing else (at least not explicity). Therefore, it seems to me that you did not need to suggest that the requestor go to a paid outside editor for those services, since many VE's do. You aren't one of them, so all you really needed to do was to point out that your resume' said you weren't interested in doing what she was asking for, and suggest that she look for another VE who offered the services she disired.

 

[Captain Midnight]

A lot of things to discuss

I agree absolutely with both of you. I'm a literary editor by profession and have been for nearly fourteen years. There was a time, however, when I would take on smaller copy editing projects, but the cost/time benefit was much too large. In the time it took to correct basic "mechanical" errors in a manuscript, I could have made three times the money working on a larger piece of work for an author who already mastered the basics.

Copy editing doesn't pay much simply because more is expected of the writer; what with all the available tools at the ready for them to do their own proofing of a manuscript.

Since I've been in Literotica, I've probably had at least a dozen people ask for my assistance in editing something for them. I always tell them I'll take a look at it, but if I immediately see many obvious and glaring technical errors, I'm not going to take on the project. Not only would I have to edit the content of the story, but the mechanics, as well, something they should have taken care of before submitting it to me.

In terms of those I've helped with the actual literary content, I've noticed a trend that is even common in the mainstream of the publishing industry. New authors tend not to listen or heed the advice of editors. When I have helped a small handful of folks here on Literotica, in terms of content and style, they universally refuse to listen, as if I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. I mean, geesh, I'm not trying to toot my own horn here or puff out my chest and boast, but, wow, you know, I really DO do this for a living, and, if I do say so myself, I know for a fact I make just as much working on my own, as an editor, than if I had an office with a large publishing house. I think most folks would be rather surprised to know what I make and how much I charge and that plenty of authors are willing to pay for those services.

Snooper is absolutely correct, when he says literary editors don't come cheap. That might even be a bit of an understatement. There are some very good reasons for that, too.

But I will say this: there is one person I helped who was really nice and fun to work with, and they actually listened to what I had to suggest. And later on, when they sent a story for me to look at, I was really quite impressed with it. That makes the VE program worth the effort.

On the other hand, there are those who've asked for help, and in the end I really had to wonder why they bothered, since they didn't want to pay attention. I had one person send me a story, which was, by and large, ok, though I did spruce it up for them. The end product did read much better - although they rejected nearly all of the changes I suggested, opting to keep the story essentially unchanged. It was wholly wrong of them to do so, as the changes were necessary, IF they wanted their story cleaned up professionally. The only real issue I had was that the person, well, more or less, plagarized the story; they took a story that was already out there in the mainstream, made a few slight modifications, gave it a more modern feel, but over all, merely adjusted the cosmetics and called it their own. When I brought this to their attention, well, they didn't think it was a big deal, and, to be sure, it wasn't all that much. However, geesh... I told them, well, if you had actually submitted this as a real story to a real publishing firm, not only would they reject it, simply because the story was standing on rather "iffy" ground, but they might also casually alert other firms to be on the lookout for your work, in case you really DID plagarize for real somewhere else or at a later time.

But it fell on deaf ears, I think. I'm fairly certain, if I recall correctly, that they submitted their story to a contest on here and it actually placed, though only second or third, I believe. Well, in a sense, that was disappointing, because it only served to nullify my editing suggestions and advice. I think the person walked away from that experience with the idea that they were more astute and aware of their own work than they really were.

There's nothing wrong with having your own creative style, which this author I helped seemed to use in order to excuse the many errors in their work. However, new and inexperienced authors MUST realize there are tried and true methods that DO work. You can't simply break from them under the premise of individual creativity. "That's just MY style." IF you can make it work, great, but nine times out of ten, it won't, and you need to rethink your strategy. That's what an editor is for: to help you plot and plan your story more effectively.

Well, anyway, I think a lot of authors here that ask for help via the VE program need to understand a few things, before requesting assistance. Do as much proofing of their work before submitting, and then be willing to let the editor go over their work with a red pen, so to speak. They're only there to help, not hinder.

It was through the above post that I met jtmalone70 (LadyCibelle reprinted jtmalone70's post and Snooper's post leading into it in a separate thread). It was through "How to Piss Off an Editor" that I met LadyCibelle.

I've never become a VE, although a few times LadyCibelle has asked me to handle a story or two by an author she knows well and feels comfortable with me handling. Do I admire LadyCibelle and jtmalone70? Just ask them! Do they admire me? Just ask them.

I was away from this board over the weekend and missed a good bit of the "discussion" about publishing someone's name. I'm glad I did. It's easy for someone to step over the line and violate someone else's privacy. I hope the person involved in the initial post by Snooper wasn't discouraged from continuing to try, and continuing to publish. I don't mind telling people my real name (I always tell them when I write a private E-mail), but I agree that it can be bad to post a name on this board. But it's just as bad and possibly worse when a so-called critic hides behind anonymity to spew venom at some story which just doesn't suit him or her.


Should I become a VE? I don't know. I work very hard on a story and try to do my best with it. I'm not accustomed to the features which allow me to comment in the margins of a page (LadyCibelle showed them to me), and some of the authors I work with don't have those features. Some of the stories I edited have never been published, and I'm not happy about that ... I don't go in hoping to discourage anyone. Some stories have been published, though, and I'm happy that I found the potential in them.

If authors think I know what I'm talking about on a story and think I can send them back a good one, so much the better. This doesn't mean I'll write their story for them (although it's tempting to do so), but I'll make a lot of suggestions if need be. Not every story needs a lot of suggestions ... the last one I edited needed almost nothing. Others have great potential as yet unrealized. I haven't yet met a "bad" story and I don't intend to.

One reason I'm a member of Literotica is that I want to work on my story skills in other areas. I don't know how many people join Literotica solely to get off; how many write simply because they have a single story to tell, how many write because they want to try to do better than other writers (my goal as of now), and how many write for the sheer joy of writing and the pleasure of telling a good story (my goal for the future). Nor do I know how many people want to sell their work elsewhere and make a living from it. I know some people do, or at least want to make supplemental income. I'd like to do that myself. But I want to learn by writing and by working with people.

So you guys who have posted, don't be surprised if I drop you a line, introduce myself, and ask you to look at this story or that story, erotic or non-erotic. I'll do it out of respect for your writing and out of respect for you as people. I hope you'll realize you can give me a big psychological and motivational boost if you let me write and tell me what works and what doesn't.

I'll subscribe to this thread now and I hope you guys will continue to post on it.


Captain Midnight

 

[Guest]

 

[Dinsmore]

Feel free to use my second pair of eyes...

I think the attitude of your response to the new writer was arrogant. A simple "I can't help you" would have sufficed. I find it especially galling that you referred the petitioner to a place to find a paid copy editor when there are VEs on the list, myself included, who are happy to edit for grammar and spelling.

I've worked with one writer who basically doesn't need me any more because he's paid attention to my corrections and not repeated his errors. And sometimes, it just helps to have an extra pair of eyes--despite Spell-Check, I let a typo slip in the story I just submitted, in part because I didn't ask someone else to take a look at it.

For the record, I do have experience of turning down a request for editing--a homophobe asked me to edit his submissions, provided I could prove I was "a real female." I hope I wasn't 1/4 as arrogant to him as you were, snooper.

Next time, feel free to send me your stuff before you submit. And thanks for the kind words.