Vulnerability & Betrayal

[gauchecritic]

For me betrayal is a feeling rather than an act. An act may trigger feelings of betrayal but the act is just an action. An ending of betrothal (assuming the same root) is again an action or possibly death if you will. However betrayal and betrothal assume an agreement, which I would wager aren't often taken on both sides. So the feeling of betrayal comes as part of mourning. Death of a relationship, even down to your favourite movie star getting married, can give one side a feeling of betrayal as part of mourning the loss of a (one sided) relationship.

Vulnerability on the other hand is a state of being and can apply to castles as much as courtship, to battles as much as betrothals and effectively promotes a willingness to succumb or an awareness of willingness. Being vulnerable is a condition of being, otherwise you would never speak to anyone, never walk across the road and never wilingly enter into a relationship with another person.

Cogito ergo sum brings with it a sense of 'other than'. If you admit to 'other than' then you must be vulnerable because 'other than' is not self.

 

[mckai777]

Imp, your nipples are just divine.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Imp, your nipples are just divine.

They're so . . . vulnerable . . . *shivers*

 

[impressive]

I've two. I can't think of anything I'd like more than to have the two of you sharing them.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I've two. I can't think of anything I'd like more than to have the two of you sharing them.

I think, if only one nipple is being enjoyed, the other might feel betrayed

 

[impressive]

I think, if only one nipple is being enjoyed, the other might feel betrayed

I trust your judgment completely.

 

[mckai777]

I've two. I can't think of anything I'd like more than to have the two of you sharing them.

Oh, sweet torture!

 

[lightsaver]

Yes and no.

Trust is a component of voluntary vulnerability. But trust can be withdrawn. There is an aspect of vulnerability that, once given, is far more difficult to unilaterally withdraw by simply stating, "You can't hurt/betray me any more."

That's when it becomes involuntary ... when you don't WANT to be vulnerable to the hurt/betrayal any more.

I think we each crave (at least, I do) relationships in which we feel safe baring our bodies and our souls. What happens when that safety is just illusory?

This pondering is leading me in all sorts of directions today -- even to finding deeper meaning in my collection of decorative bird cages (a/k/a pretty prisons).

To me, what you describe here, is a risk associated with the human experience - once a person decides to live in truth.
Involuntary vulnerability - if I am understanding you correctly, has made me feel trapped at times, or caged... That literal cage mirrored the internal one. Sometimes that safety is all bullshit and manipulation and was never real. Sometimes it is fleeting because its so real....safety nets have holes...masks crack, veils are itchy....

 

[CharleyH]

For me betrayal is a feeling rather than an act. An act may trigger feelings of betrayal but the act is just an action. An ending of betrothal (assuming the same root) is again an action or possibly death if you will. However betrayal and betrothal assume an agreement, which I would wager aren't often taken on both sides. So the feeling of betrayal comes as part of mourning. Death of a relationship, even down to your favourite movie star getting married, can give one side a feeling of betrayal as part of mourning the loss of a (one sided) relationship.

Vulnerability on the other hand is a state of being and can apply to castles as much as courtship, to battles as much as betrothals and effectively promotes a willingness to succumb or an awareness of willingness. Being vulnerable is a condition of being, otherwise you would never speak to anyone, never walk across the road and never wilingly enter into a relationship with another person.

Cogito ergo sum brings with it a sense of 'other than'. If you admit to 'other than' then you must be vulnerable because 'other than' is not self.

You have made an excellent point.

 

[Wolf_Song]

Some very excellent sharings and points herein... my compliments.

 

[impressive]

You can be an emotional gambler, and still lose what you can afford to lose.

And when you lose what you can't afford, do the mood goons come and break your emotional kneecaps? Rough you up?




Thank you, everyone, for sharing! I'm still pondering. I've read & appreciated all replies, even if I haven't responded directly.

 

[lightsaver]

And when you lose what you can't afford, do the mood goons come and break your emotional kneecaps? Rough you up?
Thank you, everyone, for sharing! I'm still pondering. I've read & appreciated all replies, even if I haven't responded directly.

You are welcome. Still pondering on all this huh?
Hmm, have you tried admiring your av, while pondering?

 

[SimpleGifts]

Just to complicate things with another concept--as I am wont to do--I associate vulnerability most closely with intimacy.

Intimacy is the act volunteering to be vulnerable with someone...to let them see you when you are stripped of your defenses so that they can know the real "you"--physically, emotionally, intellectually. When two people feel confident enough in themselves and each other that they are willing to be truly vulnerable...that's when intimacy is at its best.

That is also the point when betrayal is liable to hurt the worst...when you open up to someone only to be criticized for being the real "you"--or even worse, ridiculed for it. Or ignored.

All betrayals of trust are damaging, but as pointed out, you can choose levels of trust or mistrust with some control. But a betrayal of intimacy can be most damaging...especially if it leads you to question who you are.

SG

 

[Just-Legal]

"betrayal"

it occurs to me that many of us have true stories--some posted--of betrayals (=being betrayed).

i wonder if anyone ever posts an account of betraying anyone?

I betrayed my ex, in the purest sense of it, my loving my fiance.

The only jusification I have is he knew my history, yet did what he did.

 

[impressive]

But a betrayal of intimacy can be most damaging...

I agree completely.

 

[amicus]

"SimpleGifts & Lightsaver" both new names to me...offer the most thus far, if I may.

And...if I may, assume my usual stance as the Amicus who insists on gender differences, (men and women are different), certainly insofar as the emotions of vulnerability and betrayal are concerned.

Intimacy, as purported, is perhaps the key thought in both, although there are levels of intellectual, platonic vulnerability and betrayal, thas a horse of a different gait.

Women are said to be 'more emotional' than men. Men are said to 'repress their feelings', be less emotional. I think those things hold true in most cases.

That being said and so, then the two terms in question, vulnerability and betrayal, hold slightly different meanings depending upon gender, however, are still identical emotional aspects permitted by 'intimacy', if I may.

Proceeding on the assumption that this discussion is a literary one and not a personal one and that many of us here attempt to write such things into our characters.

There was another word someone used in a post: 'trust', that is germane to the discussion.

Permit me, if you will, to ramble a little at this point. Maturity plays a role also, I would surmise; as a child may be devastated over the loss of a pet. Yet a teen-ager might not and an adult, would offer consolation.

Thus, perhaps, psychological experience, trial and error, pain and happiness and a slow maturation process molds the character and depth of each individual as they live and grow into adulthood.

Then, 'once burned, twice shy...' first love affairs, even beginning puppy love, infatuation of a non sexual type, can leave lasting inhibitions to future encounters.

"It feels so good and hurts so much....is it worth it again...and again...and yet again...?

To love, with total intimacy is to become vulnerable in all aspects as romantic love is the deepest and most intense emotion an adult human can ever experience. Fully knowledgeable, fully aware of all possible consequences, the decision to reveal, to share, can be a difficult one to consciously make and fully realize without holding back in fear of disappointment.

And betrayal, of course, depends entirely on there being something to betray, which is also a corollary of trust and intimacy and the consequent vulnerability.

If we are the 'writers' we claim to be, then we must rise above the emotions of life and love and perceive them as functional aspects of our characters and yet not fall captive of them as we too, must live.

Apply that also to musicians and artists, who seem always to see, feel and hear more than most and suffer for it.

Drugs help, or you can eat a 12 gauge, like Papa Hemingway did, or cut off your ear...the good die young, did you ever wonder why?

amicus...

 

[amicus]

Oh, damn, I forgot to comment on impindependent Impressive's nips...ah, is there one left for me?



amicus...

 

[SlickTony]

Don't really have anything to add here, except that I'm all too acquainted with both concepts.

 

[elsol]

For me betrayal is a feeling rather than an act. An act may trigger feelings of betrayal but the act is just an action. An ending of betrothal (assuming the same root) is again an action or possibly death if you will. However betrayal and betrothal assume an agreement, which I would wager aren't often taken on both sides. So the feeling of betrayal comes as part of mourning. Death of a relationship, even down to your favourite movie star getting married, can give one side a feeling of betrayal as part of mourning the loss of a (one sided) relationship.

But the betrayar, many times, acknowledges the act as a betrayal.

So on the betrayed, your point would stand but not for the perception of the betrayer who sees his action as a 'betrayal of the trust' it does not.

He/she does not 'feel betrayed' but uses it to describe the act anyway i.e. to say "I am betraying a trust."

It is not even used to anticipate the emotions the betrayed will/would feel.

 

[gauchecritic]

But the betrayar, many times, acknowledges the act as a betrayal.

So on the betrayed, your point would stand but not for the perception of the betrayer who sees his action as a 'betrayal of the trust' it does not.

He/she does not 'feel betrayed' but uses it to describe the act anyway i.e. to say "I am betraying a trust."

It is not even used to anticipate the emotions the betrayed will/would feel.

I'd call this guilt (another part of mourning) and, opposite to my position, implies an investment in the relationship. Even then the phrase is betrayal of trust not betrayal of a person, so the investment is in a concept rather than a person. So I'd suggest that the betrayer in this case, is acknowledging their involvement in the relationship, thereby their guilt of betrayal, but not the eminence of feeling in the other party.

Betraying a trust doesn't admit of vulnerability on their part. That is, the betrayer is free to admit their own vulnerability in future occurences, which is a requirement of projected relationships.

 

[impressive]

If we are the 'writers' we claim to be, then we must rise above the emotions of life and love and perceive them as functional aspects of our characters and yet not fall captive of them as we too, must live.

Thank you, ami. Very insightful post.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Great thread. IMHO, the two words live in different galaxies.

Vulnerable means capable of being harmed. Before you consider adult relationships, think of the abused child - weakness making them vulnerable to the inadequate adult.

We are all vulnerable if we put ourselves out, even in this quasi-anonymous space, to be attacked.

Betrayal is something much darker, a loss of faith in someone or something we had dependedupon for survival.

Vulnerable is ongoing, betrayal is the stiletto between the ribs.