G
Guest
Guest
OK. Clinton pardons a congressman who fucked a 16 yr. old while taped coercing a 15 to join in the fun and as soon as the said congressman gets out of jail he is hired by Jessie Jackson? Only in America
Not a pardon!
I believe it was not a pardon. Rather, his sentence was communted.
He gets out of jail but the conviction remains on his record and he is required to register as a child molester wherever he lives.
As usual, the media is widely saying it was a pardon, but I've heard several sources state carefully and clearly that it was not. Maybe they just don't understand the difference.
BTW, I'm sure he's providing a valuable service for Jesse, perhaps in the area of recruiting!
[Edited by Unclebill on 02-06-2001 at 09:56 PM]
I believe it was not a pardon. Rather, his sentence was communted.
He gets out of jail but the conviction remains on his record and he is required to register as a child molester wherever he lives.
As usual, the media is widely saying it was a pardon, but I've heard several sources state carefully and clearly that it was not. Maybe they just don't understand the difference.
BTW, I'm sure he's providing a valuable service for Jesse, perhaps in the area of recruiting!
[Edited by Unclebill on 02-06-2001 at 09:56 PM]
G
Guest
Guest
What about George Bush Sr. pardoning everyone involved in Iran Contra? You people are fucking blind.
Andra_Jenny
Mentally Divergent
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2000
- Posts
- 2,865
Supporting Freedom == Molesting Children
Righhhht,
I get it.
Righhhht,
I get it.
Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2000
- Posts
- 6,346
Right, trading arms to get American citizens released from their hostage ordeal is a good thing to do, in my book.
I just love stupid people, they are so easily confused.
I just love stupid people, they are so easily confused.
Andra_Jenny
Mentally Divergent
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- 2,865
Huh, what, U lost me.
ME STOOPID!
oh well,
What, me worry? I'm happy!
ME STOOPID!
oh well,
What, me worry? I'm happy!
G
Guest
Guest
Published Sunday, July 18, 1999, in the Miami Herald
We shipped weapons, Sandinistas say
By GLENN GARVIN
Herald Staff Writer
MANAGUA -- When Ronald Reagan and Sandinista leaders slugged it out during the 1980s over events in Nicaragua, Reagan was right more often than they liked to admit, the Sandinistas now say.
In a series of interviews with The Herald, several past and present Sandinista officials confirmed that they shipped weapons to Marxist guerrillas in neighboring El Salvador, a statement they once hotly denied.
The Sandinistas also said that the Soviet Union agreed to supply them with MiG jet fighters and even arranged for Nicaraguan pilots to be trained on the planes in Bulgaria. But the Soviets reneged on the deal, sending the Sandinistas scurrying to make peace with the contras.
Domino theory
''The Sandinista leadership thought they could be Che Guevaras of all Latin America, from Mexico to Antarctica,'' former Sandinista leader Moises Hassan told The Herald. ''The domino theory wasn't so crazy.''
During their explosive battles with Congress over U.S. aid to anti-Sandinista rebels in Nicaragua, Reagan administration officials frequently justified helping the rebels on the grounds that the Sandinistas were shipping arms to the Salvadoran guerrillas.
Reagan's deputies also accused the Sandinistas of planning to acquire the MiGs, a move that they warned that the United States ''would view with the utmost concern.'' In 1984, when American officials spotted large crates being unloaded from Soviet ships in Nicaraguan ports, there was widespread fear that the two countries would go to war. But the crates turned out to contain helicopters, and tensions eased.
Sandinista leaders had denied supplying the Salvadoran guerrillas. ''We are not responsible for what is happening in El Salvador,'' said Sandinista party cofounder Tomas Borge said in 1980.
Earlier this month, Borge and former president Daniel Ortega both said the denials were false. They said the Sandinistas had shipped arms to Salvadoran guerrillas because the Salvadorans helped them in their successful insurrection against Anastasio Somoza, and also because they thought it would be more difficult for the United States to attack two revolutionary regimes instead of one.
'A matter of ethics'
''We wanted to broaden the territory of the revolution, to make it wider, so it would be harder for the Americans to come after us,'' Borge said. Ortega added that it was ''a matter of ethics'' to arm the Salvadorans.
Neither man offered details on how many weapons were supplied. But Hassan, a former Sandinista official who was a member of the revolutionary junta that governed Nicaragua in the early 1980s, said he believed about 50,000 weapons and a corresponding amount of ammunition were sent to El Salvador just in the first 16 months of the Sandinista government.
''Ortega and Borge didn't tell me about it, because they thought I was unreliable, but other people who just assumed I knew would casually bring it up,'' Hassan said.
Hassan resigned from the Sandinista party in June 1985 but continued to work closely with his old colleagues as mayor of Managua until late 1988.
He also confirmed that the Sandinistas had a commitment for MiGs from the Soviet Union.
He said he learned of the plan for the MiGs during 1982, when he was minister of construction and the Sandinistas began building a base for the jet fighters at Punta Huete, a remote site on the east side of Lake Managua.
The site included a 10,000-foot concrete runway -- the longest in Central America -- capable of handling any military aircraft in the Soviet fleet.
Code name: Panchito
''It was top secret -- we even had a code name, Panchito, so we could talk about it without the CIA hearing,'' Hassan said. ''But somehow the Americans found out.''
Alejandro Bendaña, who was secretary general of foreign affairs during the Sandinista government, said Nicaraguan pilots trained to fly the MiGs in Bulgaria. But in 1987, soon after the Punta Huete site was finished, the Soviets backed out, he said.
The news that they weren't getting a weapon they had always considered a security blanket, coupled with Soviet advice that it was ''time to achieve a regional settlement of security problems,'' made the Sandinistas realize that they could no longer depend on the USSR for help, Bendaña said.
Quickly, the Sandinistas signed onto a regional peace plan sponsored by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, which required peace talks with the U.S.-backed contra army, Bendaña said. Those talks led eventually to an agreement for internationally supervised elections that resulted in a Sandinista defeat in 1990.
''It wasn't the intellectual brilliance of Oscar Arias that did it,'' Bendaña said. ''It was us grabbing frantically onto any framework that was there, trying to cut our losses.''
We shipped weapons, Sandinistas say
By GLENN GARVIN
Herald Staff Writer
MANAGUA -- When Ronald Reagan and Sandinista leaders slugged it out during the 1980s over events in Nicaragua, Reagan was right more often than they liked to admit, the Sandinistas now say.
In a series of interviews with The Herald, several past and present Sandinista officials confirmed that they shipped weapons to Marxist guerrillas in neighboring El Salvador, a statement they once hotly denied.
The Sandinistas also said that the Soviet Union agreed to supply them with MiG jet fighters and even arranged for Nicaraguan pilots to be trained on the planes in Bulgaria. But the Soviets reneged on the deal, sending the Sandinistas scurrying to make peace with the contras.
Domino theory
''The Sandinista leadership thought they could be Che Guevaras of all Latin America, from Mexico to Antarctica,'' former Sandinista leader Moises Hassan told The Herald. ''The domino theory wasn't so crazy.''
During their explosive battles with Congress over U.S. aid to anti-Sandinista rebels in Nicaragua, Reagan administration officials frequently justified helping the rebels on the grounds that the Sandinistas were shipping arms to the Salvadoran guerrillas.
Reagan's deputies also accused the Sandinistas of planning to acquire the MiGs, a move that they warned that the United States ''would view with the utmost concern.'' In 1984, when American officials spotted large crates being unloaded from Soviet ships in Nicaraguan ports, there was widespread fear that the two countries would go to war. But the crates turned out to contain helicopters, and tensions eased.
Sandinista leaders had denied supplying the Salvadoran guerrillas. ''We are not responsible for what is happening in El Salvador,'' said Sandinista party cofounder Tomas Borge said in 1980.
Earlier this month, Borge and former president Daniel Ortega both said the denials were false. They said the Sandinistas had shipped arms to Salvadoran guerrillas because the Salvadorans helped them in their successful insurrection against Anastasio Somoza, and also because they thought it would be more difficult for the United States to attack two revolutionary regimes instead of one.
'A matter of ethics'
''We wanted to broaden the territory of the revolution, to make it wider, so it would be harder for the Americans to come after us,'' Borge said. Ortega added that it was ''a matter of ethics'' to arm the Salvadorans.
Neither man offered details on how many weapons were supplied. But Hassan, a former Sandinista official who was a member of the revolutionary junta that governed Nicaragua in the early 1980s, said he believed about 50,000 weapons and a corresponding amount of ammunition were sent to El Salvador just in the first 16 months of the Sandinista government.
''Ortega and Borge didn't tell me about it, because they thought I was unreliable, but other people who just assumed I knew would casually bring it up,'' Hassan said.
Hassan resigned from the Sandinista party in June 1985 but continued to work closely with his old colleagues as mayor of Managua until late 1988.
He also confirmed that the Sandinistas had a commitment for MiGs from the Soviet Union.
He said he learned of the plan for the MiGs during 1982, when he was minister of construction and the Sandinistas began building a base for the jet fighters at Punta Huete, a remote site on the east side of Lake Managua.
The site included a 10,000-foot concrete runway -- the longest in Central America -- capable of handling any military aircraft in the Soviet fleet.
Code name: Panchito
''It was top secret -- we even had a code name, Panchito, so we could talk about it without the CIA hearing,'' Hassan said. ''But somehow the Americans found out.''
Alejandro Bendaña, who was secretary general of foreign affairs during the Sandinista government, said Nicaraguan pilots trained to fly the MiGs in Bulgaria. But in 1987, soon after the Punta Huete site was finished, the Soviets backed out, he said.
The news that they weren't getting a weapon they had always considered a security blanket, coupled with Soviet advice that it was ''time to achieve a regional settlement of security problems,'' made the Sandinistas realize that they could no longer depend on the USSR for help, Bendaña said.
Quickly, the Sandinistas signed onto a regional peace plan sponsored by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, which required peace talks with the U.S.-backed contra army, Bendaña said. Those talks led eventually to an agreement for internationally supervised elections that resulted in a Sandinista defeat in 1990.
''It wasn't the intellectual brilliance of Oscar Arias that did it,'' Bendaña said. ''It was us grabbing frantically onto any framework that was there, trying to cut our losses.''
Andra_Jenny
Mentally Divergent
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- Posts
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I don't like a troll in a hood and sheet
even when he's arguin' my side. It's that whole guilt by association thing.
even when he's arguin' my side. It's that whole guilt by association thing.
Thumper
Literotica Guru
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- Mar 19, 2000
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- 4,184
Speaking of confused...
As I recall the hostages were released before the whole Iran Contra blow up. Are you saying Reagan orchestrated this during the campaign and before he was elected? Against the laws and policies of the administration that was in office at that time?
Khomeini was not stupid. The hostages were becoming a burden. The novelty of thumbing his nose at the Great Satan America was wearing off with even his own Arab neighbors. As much as they say they hate us they need us too. Also it was fast becoming a back burner issue for the rest of the world.
He had two choices...only two.
Kill the hostages and incur the wrath of the rest of the world including his Arab neighbors. They couldn't be seen to condone such a barbarous act. And the consequences visited by the US would be severe. Or:
Release the hostages and tend to matters at home, such as
the growing rift with Iraq. I do not for a minute believe that Reagan had anything to do with the release. The timing was done as a final insult to Carter and in a small way to possibly start fresh with the new administration. Khomeini didn't need the US getting into bed with Iraq. Reagan could do nothing that hadn't already been tried to win their release. Our attempt to get them out failed miserably and would have done so with Reagan or Carter. We were ill trained or equipped for that type of operation. The Israelis may have been able to pull it off, but think of the can of worms that would open up.
Supporting freedom like we did in Vietnam? We sent 50,000+ Americans to their deaths to support a corrupt and cowardly government. It was unwinnable from the start. This reactionary fear of communism is what led to the hostage crisis in the first place. The US played a big part in taking down the rightful leader in Iran and setting up the Shah. Who was by our own CIA's description a coward and weak. But he was after all more "pro western" so that meant good to us. never mind what he did to his people.
As I recall the hostages were released before the whole Iran Contra blow up. Are you saying Reagan orchestrated this during the campaign and before he was elected? Against the laws and policies of the administration that was in office at that time?
Khomeini was not stupid. The hostages were becoming a burden. The novelty of thumbing his nose at the Great Satan America was wearing off with even his own Arab neighbors. As much as they say they hate us they need us too. Also it was fast becoming a back burner issue for the rest of the world.
He had two choices...only two.
Kill the hostages and incur the wrath of the rest of the world including his Arab neighbors. They couldn't be seen to condone such a barbarous act. And the consequences visited by the US would be severe. Or:
Release the hostages and tend to matters at home, such as
the growing rift with Iraq. I do not for a minute believe that Reagan had anything to do with the release. The timing was done as a final insult to Carter and in a small way to possibly start fresh with the new administration. Khomeini didn't need the US getting into bed with Iraq. Reagan could do nothing that hadn't already been tried to win their release. Our attempt to get them out failed miserably and would have done so with Reagan or Carter. We were ill trained or equipped for that type of operation. The Israelis may have been able to pull it off, but think of the can of worms that would open up.
Supporting freedom like we did in Vietnam? We sent 50,000+ Americans to their deaths to support a corrupt and cowardly government. It was unwinnable from the start. This reactionary fear of communism is what led to the hostage crisis in the first place. The US played a big part in taking down the rightful leader in Iran and setting up the Shah. Who was by our own CIA's description a coward and weak. But he was after all more "pro western" so that meant good to us. never mind what he did to his people.
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