Vote feedback, what's gone wrong?

[greenmouse]

I have just read a story with a vote feedback of 4.00. Now, I must admit, I do tend to be influenced by the voting score and was expecting to read a few paragraphs and move on. Well, apart from not having any paragraphs, this story was really good. It had a good plot and was steaming hot

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=110400

Which got me thinking, how did a good story end up with such a low voting feedback, compared to some of the excellently written shite that you find in the 'Top Lists'? Do people really vote on punctuation & grammar over plot & horniness?

Does anyone actually know how the voting system works on here? Can anybody vote over and over again on the same story, or do you have to be a logged in member and then the details are recorded?

Maybe it's just me, but as the years go by, voting feedback seems to reflect less the quality of story you are about to read.

 

[starrkers]

4.00 is low?
Damn, I'm obviously aiming too low!

 

[mjl2010]

A perfect 4.00 score probably means it only has a few votes. If you translate that to a percentage, that's an 80 out of a 100. a 1.00 would be 20, 2.00 would be 40 etc. So really, a 4.00 isn't a bad score. In fact, it's 30 percentage points above average.

Suppose three people voted a five, then a fourth reader came along and voted a one. 3 x 5=15+1=16. 16 / 4 = 4.00. Or maybe ten people voted a four.

Why are you calling a 4.00 a lousy score. That's not so bad. There's plenty here that have much lower scores.

I went and looked at the story. Honestly, I could never read it. It requires way too much effort to keep my eyes on one sentence. None of the dialog is broken up. The one huge paragraph just makes it impossible for me to read. You'd find plenty of threads here where the same complaint is expounded upon by many people. I'm guessing the story only has a few votes because no one is bothering to read it through to the end.

Having to read and reread and reread again, just to get through one short piece of the story takes away from the enjoyment. People enjoy it less and vote lower.

Your opinion that some of the stuff on the top list is shit is just your opinion. Obviously, plenty of other people liked those stories enough to vote high. This piece of "literary genius" you're complaining about is just wasting space. The author should have taken the time to follow at least a few basic grammar rules and make his story readable. Maybe then he'd have scored an 85 or a 90 or 95 percent score instead of just an 80.

I've wasted enough time now. I'll let someone else say that votes mean next to nothing and non consent/reluctance stories are likely to garner low votes because readers equate them to rape and just don't find that exciting.

MJL

 

[sr71plt]

A perfect 4.00 score probably means it only has a few votes. If you translate that to a percentage, that's an 80 out of a 100. a 1.00 would be 20, 2.00 would be 40 etc. So really, a 4.00 isn't a bad score. In fact, it's 30 percentage points above average.

Suppose three people voted a five, then a fourth reader came along and voted a one. 3 x 5=15+1=16. 16 / 4 = 4.00. Or maybe ten people voted a four.

Why are you calling a 4.00 a lousy score. That's not so bad. There's plenty here that have much lower scores.

I went and looked at the story. Honestly, I could never read it. It requires way too much effort to keep my eyes on one sentence. None of the dialog is broken up. The one huge paragraph just makes it impossible for me to read. You'd find plenty of threads here where the same complaint is expounded upon by many people. I'm guessing the story only has a few votes because no one is bothering to read it through to the end.

Having to read and reread and reread again, just to get through one short piece of the story takes away from the enjoyment. People enjoy it less and vote lower.

Your opinion that some of the stuff on the top list is shit is just your opinion. Obviously, plenty of other people liked those stories enough to vote high. This piece of "literary genius" you're complaining about is just wasting space. The author should have taken the time to follow at least a few basic grammar rules and make his story readable. Maybe then he'd have scored an 85 or a 90 or 95 percent score instead of just an 80.

I've wasted enough time now. I'll let someone else say that votes mean next to nothing and non consent/reluctance stories are likely to garner low votes because readers equate them to rape and just don't find that exciting.

MJL

Got you to read his/her story, though, didn't she/he? (Whatever good that did.)

 

[mjl2010]

Got you to read his/her story, though, didn't she/he? (Whatever good that did.)

Obviously you didn't read my post, just made an assumption.

I went and looked at the story. Honestly, I could never read it.

 

[sr71plt]

Obviously you didn't read my post, just made an assumption.

Ah, yes, my assumption was based on that critique you were giving the story--I saw mention not only of format but of grammar, and format and grammar are two different things (and Greenmouse had already conceded the format issue, saying it was a wonderful story regardless). I'd never make those connections to a story I hadn't actually read, so, yes, I assumed you'd done what I'd do before commenting on a story. My bad.

That said, my own take on a 4.00 rating (which, yes, should be a pretty good score) is that the story was posted 4 years ago. It's really hard to maintain a "Hot" rating for that long, I think (so it may not be a case of having received only a few votes). And, who knows, maybe the voting wasn't as inflated in 2003 as it is now. 80 percent approval is pretty warm in the real world.

 

[ISawYourMommy]

Well, to address a few other questions in the original post:

1. I don't think the same reader can vote more than once, or at least not more than once from the same computer. I believe that the software tracks IP addresses.

2. I'm also pretty sure that one does not have to log in to cast a vote for a story. The myriad comments from "Anonymous in X" attest to that (unless you can log in but vote/leave comments anonymously, and I've never seen that option).

3. I imagine that many people cast votes over issues like grammar and story structure. I won't read a story that doesn't have dialogue and thus don't vote on the story. But others will read it and vote on it, and ding it not having dialogue. Same with grammar and structure. I can understand why someone would downgrade a story because it is difficult to read; how can you enjoy it if it's painful to read or if you're struggling through a ninety line paragraph? Other people will downgrade a story because they don't like the subject matter; it could be a story with proper paragraphs, no spelling or grammatical mistakes, and a fully developed plot with rich characters, but can still get a zero if the reader doesn't like what it's about. Take a look at some of the comments and associated votes on my stories for examples of what I'm talking about (or any story about a cheating wife posted in Loving Wives, for that matter).

 

[Jennylo]

I have just read a story with a vote feedback of 4.00. Now, I must admit, I do tend to be influenced by the voting score and was expecting to read a few paragraphs and move on. Well, apart from not having any paragraphs, this story was really good. It had a good plot and was steaming hot

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=110400

Which got me thinking, how did a good story end up with such a low voting feedback, compared to some of the excellently written shite that you find in the 'Top Lists'? Do people really vote on punctuation & grammar over plot & horniness?

Does anyone actually know how the voting system works on here? Can anybody vote over and over again on the same story, or do you have to be a logged in member and then the details are recorded?

Maybe it's just me, but as the years go by, voting feedback seems to reflect less the quality of story you are about to read.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think the voting reflects the quality of the story - overall. As a reader I can tell you that if a story is difficult to follow or difficult to read, I don't even bother voting. When I do vote, I take into account technique as well as content. If I'm looking for a story to read, I check the top lists created by Lit or the contest winners by month or theme and the list of stories of authors I tend to favor as well as the authors they have recommended on their account.

 

[DocCIS]

I have just read a story with a vote feedback of 4.00. Now, I must admit, I do tend to be influenced by the voting score and was expecting to read a few paragraphs and move on. Well, apart from not having any paragraphs, this story was really good. It had a good plot and was steaming hot

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=110400

Which got me thinking, how did a good story end up with such a low voting feedback, compared to some of the excellently written shite that you find in the 'Top Lists'? Do people really vote on punctuation & grammar over plot & horniness?

Does anyone actually know how the voting system works on here? Can anybody vote over and over again on the same story, or do you have to be a logged in member and then the details are recorded?

Maybe it's just me, but as the years go by, voting feedback seems to reflect less the quality of story you are about to read.

I wonder how that story even got posted. I have had two stories refused because of less than FOUR punctuation errors and soon as those errors were fixed, the story was posted.

I took one look at that and could not read it...I agree with mjl2010 it's not something I could even begin to read as I would literally have to copy/paste it in Word and then edit it myself to become readable...that's too much work for reading a story.

My stories are not the most grammatically correct, I'm not here to throw stones in a glass house, but that story...there's nowhere to start. Lack of proper paragraphs, punctuation, dialogue...the list goes on and on.

It may very well BE a good story, but I cannot get past the presentation and formatting to even gain an interest. When reading becomes a chore, that's where I stop, hehehe. The whole story may be the best thing ever, but if not presented well, it looses everything, including readers. I have to agree probably one of the reasons for the 4.00 rating is lack of people making it through to the end...

 

[lloyd_5]

I have just read a story with a vote feedback of 4.00. Now, I must admit, I do tend to be influenced by the voting score and was expecting to read a few paragraphs and move on. Well, apart from not having any paragraphs, this story was really good. It had a good plot and was steaming hot

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=110400

Which got me thinking, how did a good story end up with such a low voting feedback, compared to some of the excellently written shite that you find in the 'Top Lists'? Do people really vote on punctuation & grammar over plot & horniness?

Does anyone actually know how the voting system works on here? Can anybody vote over and over again on the same story, or do you have to be a logged in member and then the details are recorded?

Maybe it's just me, but as the years go by, voting feedback seems to reflect less the quality of story you are about to read.

Now it has been pulled by the moderators for 'checking'. Was the grammar and layout that bad?

 

[mjl2010]

Now it has been pulled by the moderators for 'checking'. Was the grammar and layout that bad?

Sheesh. After four years even. Interesting.

 

[DocCIS]

Sheesh. After four years even. Interesting.

Odd...I'm fairly new here but does that happen? Seems odd that after so long it would be pulled, as bad as it was, LOL...

 

[greenmouse]

Voting discussion

Now it has been pulled by the moderators for 'checking'. Was the grammar and layout that bad?

Well I hope the moderators can give this story a new lease of life. I agree with 'DocCIS', I wondered how this story got passed in the first place, having similar experience with my own stories.

Thanks for all the other comments and discussion on the subject of voting. I would be interested to know if 'ISawYourMommy' was right about the voting system recording the IP address of every vote. Being the best story site on the web, it's only natural to expect the best from it!

Regarding the debate about 4.00 being a high/low vote; Personally, I rarely vote less than four, because if a story doesn't grab my attention on the first page, then I tend to move on to another story and never reach the voting page. My observation is that most stories have got a voting score within the 4 to 5 bracket. Therefore I see a score of less than 4 as being below average.

I generally don't take grammar, layout, spelling, etc into account when voting, I vote on the story and ideas the writer has. In my opinion, a good song played badly, is still a good song!

What do you reckon?

 

[mjl2010]

I generally don't take grammar, layout, spelling, etc into account when voting, I vote on the story and ideas the writer has. In my opinion, a good song played badly, is still a good song!

What do you reckon?[/COLOR]

I reckon if I took your favorite song. The song you think is the best song in the world and sang it for you, You'd listen exactly half way through it, then take the CD out and use it exactly once for a Frisbee as you flung it into traffic.

Further, every time you heard that song after that, you'd probably remember my voice and cringe once again. Being on key, having good musicians playing the music right are important to a good song. Just like having good grammar and spelling along with an interesting plot line are important to reading a good story.

I'd ask you, what message are you sending to writers who don't bother with good grammar and spelling, writers who don't take the time to polish their work one iota. You go and vote a four or a five for something hacked out in thirty minutes and not even read over once before submission. Then hardly anyone reads the story, the writers sees a score of over four and never once does anything to improve his/her writing.

Votes and feedback are a tool used by people who write here to help themselves improve. If you want to write, you should use the tools the language gives you. Not just hack something out as fast as you can type and never look back. I'll have to take your word on it that the authors idea was good, and I'm sorry you think that was the best piece of writing on this site. All that says to me is you have little or no standard for what you'll read and are more than happy to settle for substandard writing as long as the story idea gets your dick hard.

MJL

MJL

 

[greenmouse]

Story qualities

Fair comment 'mjl2010'.
I guess the point I was making was, its about the priority you should give to grammar, layout, story, ideas, etc, in the given time. For me the story and ideas is the most important part. This is the message I am trying to get out to writers, if they have a good story idea, then get it out there and don't be put off by grammar & layout worries.

This is why I picked this story as an example, the writer clearly lacks the skills that you crave, but yet its still a good story. Hopefully these days, the moderators would suggest involving an editor to help bring it up to English standards. At least in this case the grammar and layout can be improved later, which is what's happening now I hope.

I didn't say this is the 'best piece of writing on this site', I said 'this is the best story site on the web', and I've seen a few. I hope you agree.

 

[hmmnmm]

misspelt/spelled words are misnomers. How do we know they were spelt/spelled the best they could be spelt/spelled at their creation and during subsequent edits?

 

[mjl2010]

Which got me thinking, how did a good story end up with such a low voting feedback, compared to some of the excellently written shite that you find in the 'Top Lists'? Do people really vote on punctuation & grammar over plot & horniness?

Actually, what I and others vote on, not necessarily everyone, is the overall quality of the story. This includes..

1) The idea is original and interesting.

2) The author thought out the story before writing it down and then presented the idea well.

3) The characters are somewhat developed and there is a plausible plot line.

4) The story is easy to read because the author followed some general rules for writing. Namely these being...

a) Paragraphs are of a readable length. Paragraphs longer then ten screen lines are difficult to read on a monitor. The eye gets lost in the lines and if the reader is truly interested, they end up rereading things which detracts from enjoyment.

b) Dialog is done halfway correctly and doesn't detract from the story. Being able to "hear" the characters speak is a big plus and means the author has correctly used tags and given the characters their own speech patterns.

c) Grammar is applied well enough that the reader doesn't have to decipher the authors meaning in order to understand the story.
​

Does anyone actually know how the voting system works on here? Can anybody vote over and over again on the same story, or do you have to be a logged in member and then the details are recorded?

You can vote twice. I did it once on a story of mine. They sweep the votes though, and most likely, any double votes are going to get deleted and your overall score adjusted. How they keep track of voting is a well kept secret so that people don't work around it.

Maybe it's just me, but as the years go by, voting feedback seems to reflect less the quality of story you are about to read.

I think its the fact that more and more authors here are taking pride in what they write and want to write well. You're mostly interested in the hornyness of the story, as you implied. So the voting you're seeing is tilting away from what you expect.

 

[walkerlong]

I feel like the entire point of grammar rules is to make writing understandable. On the other hand, some people seem to think that the point of writing is to follow grammar rules.

 

[sr71plt]

I feel like the entire point of grammar rules is to make writing understandable. On the other hand, some people seem to think that the point of writing is to follow grammar rules.

I'd think the point is to make it comfortably understandable--clear but as unobtrusively as possible.

And in creative writing, this sometimes means the grammar "rules" are best fudged. But laid over this is the propensity of publishers to follow traditional grammar rules so that the writing is perfectly clear to the greatest number of readers.

 

[sr71plt]

Now it has been pulled by the moderators for 'checking'. Was the grammar and layout that bad?

I've got to believe that the story was pulled by the author for rework after it's greatness wasn't being verified on this thread because posters said they were unable to read through the grammar and formatting mistakes. I find it hard to believe that the site moderators would pull a story that's been posted for four years and initiate any sort of rewrite on their own--even as a result of the discussion on this thread.

 

[DocCIS]

I've got to believe that the story was pulled by the author for rework after it's greatness wasn't being verified on this thread because posters said they were unable to read through the grammar and formatting mistakes. I find it hard to believe that the site moderators would pull a story that's been posted for four years and initiate any sort of rewrite on their own--even as a result of the discussion on this thread.

That was my own thinking as well...at least maybe my hope

As to the issue on grammar and formatting, it's all part of the package. sr71plt's comment about them singing the song is a good analogy. The main portion of the story is the plot, the character development, and the whole storyline; however, presentation HAS to be taken into account. Even if a story has a good plot if it is presented wrong it deters from the reading of it.

It is why when posting stories on the Internet paragraphs need to be smaller than normal...so the normal break in lines is better to the eyes. It's why we use indents, bold/italics, and all other sorts of formatting...that gives a better ease to the reader. Nobody likes to read a solid wall of text...there needs to be some organization to it or a reader is just going to pass it up. Reading should not be a chore...

I didn't mind that my story was rejected with a couple of mistakes, because I learned from them. Each submission after that I made an effort to search and correct similar errors. In the end I know it became a better story to the reader. My comment was mainly on how the approval/rejection process seems odd at times...some stories get posted to the site that my ten-year-old could format better while others get rejected for a few minor errors.

 

[greenmouse]

A result for the Forums!

Well, I am happy that the offending story has finally been given a new lease of life, albeit with a new title and new category.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=111353

I am also amazed that they have finally given the voting system the revamp it desperately needed. I’m not sure it will solve all the discussed problems overnight, but it’s a great attempt at changing peoples voting habits and balancing the votes out. Hopefully the average voting score will come down now to a more sensible level.

Whether the Forums have influenced this change or it’s just a coincidence, the main thing is, that this is for the good of the site and its writers.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and well-done Literotica.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think it's mis-labeled. It belongs in Non-Consent/Reluctance and I'm sorry I even followed the thread. Blackmail isn't a good story, IMO. But then, that's only me.

 

[sauhund96]

I think it's mis-labeled. It belongs in Non-Consent/Reluctance and I'm sorry I even followed the thread. Blackmail isn't a good story, IMO. But then, that's only me.

That's what I think too. Sorry

 

[LadyIlsa]

I am so thrilled with my >4 vote score!