Views on Chaos

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I fancy myself a chaotician, a purveyor of the strange and psychotic. I am a strong defendant of the power of the imagination. I adore chaotic music such as jazz. I love the strange and the bizarre. I love indie comics, fantasy, surrealism. Phillip K Dick and Ken Kesey are among my favorite authors and I indulge happily in the reading of Grant Morrison wetdreams of chaos utopias. Anyone who has met me knows I love the non-sequitur, the reclamation of language, and a belief that crazy is not the same as unhealthy 100% of the time.

However, many have opposite opinions, finding the unknown, the odd, the unusual, the imaginative in all incarnations to be an affront to them. Some find anything they can't control, comprehend, or otherwise make fit to their perfect viewpoint of reality a dire threat to be removed at all costs. Rereading The Invisibles a little while tomograms are being compiled, it seems that his vision of Logic and Chaos in an epic war with logical forces seeking to crush chaos forever seems to have some small semblance to reality.

That is not to say I'm particularly extremist on the subject. I'm hardly an anarchist, nor do I find chaos inherently good. Chaos can quite clearly be used for quite malevolent purposes. I do not believe chaos trumps morality or that I should actively recruit others to a chaotic lifestyle though it seems I often do through sheer force of anticharisma at least to a degree.



Anyway, enough babbling. What are all of your opinions on chaos, what facets do you most embrace, what are your limits? Do you indulge in the chaotic, is your mind twisted or do non-sequiturs leave you in the dust, do weird actions leave you more uncomfortable than intrigued or amused? Do you tends toward Lovecraft or non-fiction, the unique or the familiar? Does chaotic times frighten you or energize you? Do unusual behaviors make you curious or frightened? In overall what do you think?


Respond or the rabid penguin monkeys will eat my brains.

 

[Guest]

chaos.
i live in it every day. but, because chaos can be subjective, i know that many may view my chaos as normal.
the one thing i view as chaos beyond my control is war...ok, add hatred in that mix. these are things that are beyond my comprehension and beyond what i view as acceptable.
i don't understand killing someone based on religion. nor do i understand hating someone who believes something different from my own belief. it boggles my mind and makes me feel very insignificant.

sorry if this is off kilter but then again, im out on a different playing field than most.


miss you bossman.

 

[rockersex]

If you like chaos, you would like heavy metal. Not the traditional melodic stuff, I mean the heavy, grindcore, death metal stuff like Cryptopsy, Dillinger Escape Plan (which is not death metal), Dying Fetus, and Nile. That's chaotic music. If you ever attend a heavy metal concert you will find mass chaos.

I believe in a healthy balance of all things. Whenever the scales tip too far in one direction bad things start happening. Chaos is not inheirently evil, nor is it inheirently good, same as with order. It just describes a state of being.

My job is the perfect mix of order and chaos: childcare. You can't have too much order or else there is no room for growth. You can't have too much chaos or else it will become dangerous. For me, in preschool, the two worst scenarios in a classroom are that it's either too quiet or too chaotic. I want random activity, that's how children learn. But at the same time, it's obvious I can't let my classroom descend into pure anarchy. If you've ever wtiness a classroom that was too ordered you'd see the kids wandering around like zombies.

You can't have a perfectly ordered life because when something random does happen everything will fall to pieces. You obviously can't live a completely chaotic life because you'd be dead.

I've seen several psychologists and I've been diagnosed to have a very unusual thought process and cognition. Does it mean I'm crazy? Maybe. I have a 70% abnormal thought process while a normal person has about 20%. Is it unhealthy? Only if I let it get out of hand. I'm going to get my master's degree, I'm working, writing, and playing in a band. I function just fine.

the one thing i view as chaos beyond my control is war...ok, add hatred in that mix. these are things that are beyond my comprehension and beyond what i view as acceptable.
i don't understand killing someone based on religion. nor do i understand hating someone who believes something different from my own belief. it boggles my mind and makes me feel very insignificant.

War and hatred are far from random. Nobody randomly decides to go to war and nobody randomly decides to hate something. That is entirely conditioned, sadly, into the minds of many people around the world. They are pretty much brainwashed and conditioned from birth to believe that killing in the name of religion is okay. It's just a different culture and upbringing. Their definition of evil is not ours. The vast majority of the people in the world believe that killing in the name of religion is wrong. It's just a few radical extremest groups that are causing a lot of trouble. They use chaos as a weapon. Order has also been used as a weapon. It's called communism.

The real enemy in the world is extremism for either side. The answer lies in balance, tolerance, and compromise.

 

[Guest]

War and hatred are far from random. Nobody randomly decides to go to war and nobody randomly decides to hate something. That is entirely conditioned, sadly, into the minds of many people around the world. They are pretty much brainwashed and conditioned from birth to believe that killing in the name of religion is okay. It's just a different culture and upbringing. Their definition of evil is not ours. The vast majority of the people in the world believe that killing in the name of religion is wrong. It's just a few radical extremest groups that are causing a lot of trouble. They use chaos as a weapon. Order has also been used as a weapon. It's called communism.

i realize that war and hatred are far from random. what i was getting at is the fact that i find it chaotic. i can't wrap my head around either one and i am intolerent of both, entirely.

 

[Alessia Brio]

I admire chaos because, basically, it eludes me.

 

[Aurora Black]

I fancy myself a chaotician, a purveyor of the strange and psychotic. I am a strong defendant of the power of the imagination. I adore chaotic music such as jazz. I love the strange and the bizarre. I love indie comics, fantasy, surrealism. Phillip K Dick and Ken Kesey are among my favorite authors and I indulge happily in the reading of Grant Morrison wetdreams of chaos utopias. Anyone who has met me knows I love the non-sequitur, the reclamation of language, and a belief that crazy is not the same as unhealthy 100% of the time.

And yet you're not keen on thanking those who have taken the time to give you feedback. By "those," I mean me. But I'm not bitter. Oh no...

I'm saying this here because your PM box is full.

 

[cantdog]

Chaos is where the fun comes from.

 

[Guest]

 

[ungenderless]

I think that chaos is fun to explore, cos basically it is what we don't understand. So observing chaos is trying to learn something new. Or at least expose yourself to it, even if you don't understand it. But I really don't think chaos is a matter of something that is absolute, but rather a matter of our limited perspectives. Just because something looks random, doesn't mean that it is. It still was caused by something concrete, that cause just eludes us.

Speaking of Chaotic music, I highly recommend a band by the name of The Residents. They enjoy embracing chaos, too, with very unorthadox beats, melodies and lyrics.

 

[Pure]

Hi luc,

it's a fascinating concept that i read up on a while back---till my life got too chaotic.

as you know, there is a technical sense in which 'chaos' is NOT randomness.

but generally i'm with those that are weird and off beat, even the simple cases like Jon Stewart or Mr. Colbert.

another topic i've posted on from time to time is the issue of sexual nonconformity. one irony is that several so-called 'deviant lifestyles', for example the Gay and the BDSM are so often hedged in with as many rules as anyone else. Further, some of these deviants are concerned to claim the moral highground, in various ways.

for myself, the gutter, the debased, the depraved, the bizarre etc. all the themes of Baudelaire, Poe, Sade are very exciting (even if prudence forbids the practice of some of these ideas, for those not wishing a stay in the Big House, like Mr. DAFS)

coming back to porn and erotica; its cardinal sin is boringness. not one in a thousand Lit stories has something unpredictable in it. oddly, this newly allowed sexual freedom in writing has brought more order and less 'chaos' than standards like Poe or Dostoevsky.

would like to hear from others with similar interests, either in this thread or PM, esp. if you write stories with the weird elements named above.

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[3113]

Chaos Theory

Always been fascinated by Chaos Theory myself, and consider myself an amatur student of it. I especially like the idea of Chaos shifting things up to higher frequencies, and I certainly believe in the power of Chaos to keep things moving--the ongoing power of destuction and creation rather than a status quo. One of my favorite books on this subject is a light and humorous tale about chaos and fad mentality called Bellwether by Connie Wilis.

Phillip K Dick and Ken Kesey are among my favorite authors and I indulge happily in the reading of Grant Morrison wetdreams of chaos utopias.

PKD is one of my faves as well. If you're a hurge Morrison fan, I really recommend you check out this guy: Bullets. The comic was for a mainstream audience reading a mainstream comic, but it's anything but mainstream. It covers everything you've mentioned so far and more: Jazz, surrealism, language, chaotic times--and things like quantum physics, fractals, magic and, most especially, the power of the imagination.

 

[rgraham666]

Chaos is a fact of life that I've learned to live with, although I can't say I'm fond of it.

It's like weather, you enjoy it when it's good, survive it when it's bad.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

And yet you're not keen on thanking those who have taken the time to give you feedback. By "those," I mean me. But I'm not bitter. Oh no...

I'm saying this here because your PM box is full.

Sorry, should be better now.

 

[EternalWinter]

I have given myself over to Slaanesh, the prince of pleasure and pain and in return he has granted me things most would never dream of.

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!

 

[Jailhouse]

Rarr!

 

[CharleyH]

I fancy myself a chaotician, a purveyor of the strange and psychotic. I am a strong defendant of the power of the imagination. I adore chaotic music such as jazz. I love the strange and the bizarre. I love indie comics, fantasy, surrealism. Phillip K Dick and Ken Kesey are among my favorite authors and I indulge happily in the reading of Grant Morrison wetdreams of chaos utopias. Anyone who has met me knows I love the non-sequitur, the reclamation of language, and a belief that crazy is not the same as unhealthy 100% of the time.

However, many have opposite opinions, finding the unknown, the odd, the unusual, the imaginative in all incarnations to be an affront to them. Some find anything they can't control, comprehend, or otherwise make fit to their perfect viewpoint of reality a dire threat to be removed at all costs. Rereading The Invisibles a little while tomograms are being compiled, it seems that his vision of Logic and Chaos in an epic war with logical forces seeking to crush chaos forever seems to have some small semblance to reality.

That is not to say I'm particularly extremist on the subject. I'm hardly an anarchist, nor do I find chaos inherently good. Chaos can quite clearly be used for quite malevolent purposes. I do not believe chaos trumps morality or that I should actively recruit others to a chaotic lifestyle though it seems I often do through sheer force of anticharisma at least to a degree.

Anyway, enough babbling. What are all of your opinions on chaos, what facets do you most embrace, what are your limits? Do you indulge in the chaotic, is your mind twisted or do non-sequiturs leave you in the dust, do weird actions leave you more uncomfortable than intrigued or amused? Do you tends toward Lovecraft or non-fiction, the unique or the familiar? Does chaotic times frighten you or energize you? Do unusual behaviors make you curious or frightened? In overall what do you think?

Interesting. I find chaos comes in more a form of Apollo than Dionoysis on a semiotic level. Chaos is organized = Apollo - thats all I will say for now because you have defined your chaos as something tangible.

Is true chaos really so ... objective?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Interesting. I find chaos comes in more a form of Apollo than Dionoysis on a semiotic level. Chaos is organized = Apollo - thats all I will say for now because you have defined your chaos as something tangible.

Is true chaos really so ... objective?

I'd say no. I'm only given shards, fragments of human creations that are "chaos-touched". Saying chaos, pure and unadulterated can survive into any understandable form is given oneself far too much credit. But pieces, diluted, can be listed.


On everyone else. Great responses. Everyone keep it up.

 

[kendo1]

I first became interested in Chaos Theory through reading The Patterns of Chaos by Colin Kapp (1972), an SF novel. The main character is the focus of an attack launched 700 million years before, his location was predicted through Chaos Theory.
A second novel, The Chaos Weapon (1977), was about a weapon that distorted probability.

I think I'll look them out from the attic.

 

[glynndah]

But their secret agents weren't very efficient....




"Get Smart"

 

[Seattle Zack]

I fancy myself a chaotician, a purveyor of the strange and psychotic. I am a strong defendant of the power of the imagination. I adore chaotic music such as jazz. I love the strange and the bizarre. I love indie comics, fantasy, surrealism. Phillip K Dick and Ken Kesey are among my favorite authors and I indulge happily in the reading of Grant Morrison wetdreams of chaos utopias. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Okay, calling bullshit on this one. No one seductively drawn by chaos seals their comics in untouchable bags and then categorizes them my author. You "fancy yourself" this and that, but have you ever deliberately gone out of your way to cause chaos?

I'm talking about leaving yourself to type up a 28-page research paper (thesis, no less) the night before it's due. Or deliberately starting rumors that triger a reorg in your entire department. Ignore shit at work until it becomes a crisis then step in and take care of the whole thing at the last minute.

I've done all those things. It's fucking fun. I'm a chaos junkie. Luckily, I've found a job that pays me quite well for those skills.

But chaos? You don't even know. Stir up some real trouble, the kind that gets you fired or your clothes cut up into pieces by your red-haired soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend. Then come on here with a post about chaos.

--Zack

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't know about chaos itself, because I'm not sure what "chaos" means. Chaotic systems usually yield to statistical analysis, don't they? But the non-logical, the surreal, the irrational, that kind of stuff? I love it.

For the longest time I wanted to wrte a sci-fi story about an alogical world, a world where 1 + 1 wouldn't equal 2, but it was almost impossible to imagine how such a place would work. Then it occurred to me that we spend half our lives there already, in our dreams. I'm convinced that dreams are vital to our ability to think creatively. I love those hypnogogic or drug-induced states where you make these non-logical connections that are so inutitively clear and then so hard to recapture.

I love weird and supernatural stuff too, even when I know it's bullshit. Alien abductions and UFO's fascinate and repel me in equal measure, depending on which side of my brain I'm on at the time. I love Charles Fort too.

But chaos in art and music? No. Coltrane's later stuff? Free jazz? Jackson Pollack? You can have it.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Okay, calling bullshit on this one. No one seductively drawn by chaos seals their comics in untouchable bags and then categorizes them my author. You "fancy yourself" this and that, but have you ever deliberately gone out of your way to cause chaos?

I'm talking about leaving yourself to type up a 28-page research paper (thesis, no less) the night before it's due. Or deliberately starting rumors that triger a reorg in your entire department. Ignore shit at work until it becomes a crisis then step in and take care of the whole thing at the last minute.

I've done all those things. It's fucking fun. I'm a chaos junkie. Luckily, I've found a job that pays me quite well for those skills.

But chaos? You don't even know. Stir up some real trouble, the kind that gets you fired or your clothes cut up into pieces by your red-haired soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend. Then come on here with a post about chaos.

--Zack

An interesting point.

Indeed chaos in its essence can be debilitating. But to harness only the debilitating. To seek self-satisfaction at the cost of oneself and others hardly seems the sole means of honouring chaos.

And which chaosii do we explore? Is it the anarchy of moments, little victories against the shape of the world? The escapism of the mind in imagination? Or simply the small eccentricities of life that give it its flavor?

I think the spectrum of answers so far show an interesting spread of what in chaos we embrace and hold dear. What we fear, what we honour, what we enjoy, what we tolerate, what we revile. It is these things I find interesting and am glad to get insight into the matter of.

Some like you have taken offense to my list, assuming quite interesting things about my aspect and character. That is your perogative. What I listed were merely what had come to mind at the time of the posting. Have I indulged in greater chaos than what is available in fiction and art and music? Indeed. I have been guilty of flipping a coin like Two-Face to judge my moral course of action. I have indulged in chaos or at least abnormality for many many years now. An old joke went that I am Utis.

But for me these are also just facets, just little tastes. So much more remains inside, glimpses of worlds, whole realities, the secrets of the universe's entropic dynasty. And even these are likely fragments.

And so these fragments become the study of interest. How they collide with us. What aspects we recognize. What aspects we embrace. What aspects we fear. What aspects shape us. What aspects are what make life bearable.

As writers, I see us as most intuned to these aspects. They are as many point out, the roots of imagination. The fuel that conjures characters from nothing. Shapes the world they live in out of mere wisps of neural net. That guide their stories or merely jot them down.

So much to discuss and learn, I think. So many perspectives to capture, to read. Accounts to trade.

So assume what you will, the discussion is the thing.