Victory! Again!

[keeblercrumb]

Because of the Presidential Campaign, we have recently been treated to the endless repetitions of the same story.... "The Success of the Surge"...

How is this "Success" defined? By a statistical decline of attacks and American deaths over the last 6-10 months following a sharp increase in the number of American forces on the ground.

But:
1. There is nowhere "safe" in Iraq yet.... except, apparently, for Iranian leaders.

2. Not that everyday some local Iraqi leader or police chief is not murdered. (Today it was Sheik Ibrahim al-Karbouli of Youssifiyah, a senior leader of the so-called awakening council in the town)

3. Much of the country's infrastructure still does not function, despite billions of dollars spent on it, generally because of "insufficient security" according to the GAO.

To be fair (and why not be fair?), things are better, statically, than they were pre-surge... but since it is yet to be determined what will happen "post surge", it seems rather early to be declaring victory.... which WAS the point of the "surge", wasn't it?

Are Al Qaeda (who did not even exist in Iraq pre-invasion), the Sunni Militia's and the Shitte militia's even close to being defeated or just laying relatively quiet?

I DO hope it all works but even McCain who says it was all his idea, admits substantial numbers of US troops will be required in Iraq almost indefinitely. That seems strange to say if the "surge" was "successful", as he says.

There is the obviously deteriorating situation in Afghanistan with a increasingly active Al Qaeda and Taliban.... corresponding to the decreases in Iraq..... This seems rather like squeezing a balloon to me... and a balloon that we cannot squeeze both ends of at the same time.

What bothers me most about all this is that it is all so eerily familiar to the self-delusion we were under during Viet Nam in 1967, following a massive "Surge" which resulted in sharply reduced levels of organized resistance..... Westmoreland and company were busy handing out medals for their "victory", only to be rudely reminded in January 1968 (aka "Tet") how dangerous a place it still was and how far from defeated the NVA/VC were.....

How do you spell "Success"?

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

So what?

Your revelation is the re-discovery of fire and the wheel. Bush & Company lie, I had no idea!

Iraq isnt Vietnam, because of the oil and its strategic location.

It seems to me Bush achieves two outcomes with our presence in Iraq. He keeps Iraqi oil off the market and keeps Russia's paws off the oil.

People dont care about Iraq. There are no draftees in it.

I read a new book by Anthony Lewis last night. We'll stop our intrigues when our government is a lot smaller.

 

[3113]

Sick of this Shit!

You know, frankly, I'm really sick and tired of people everywhere--news, on the street, even here--nitpicking in hopes of making something wrong seem right. Did the surge work? Were there missiles? Was Saddam a horrible person?

Ultimately, every one of these little points is IRRELEVANT! Iraq was a mistake. It has sucked down billions of dollars, taken a lot of lives and not returned to us a single god-damned thing of value. Not oil, not a democracy that's firmly on our side, not an ally we can trust, not peace in the middle east, nada, nothing.

All we've gotten from this war is a huge debt and no money to bail us out of our own problems. And the situation in the Middle East is nearly as bad as it was before we got involved.

Victory to me would be a strong ally who's totally on our side, willing to sell us barrels and barrels of cheap oil, and who help us create so much peace and contentment in that part of the world that terrorists have no fertile ground at all to grow and so stop giving us trouble. That's success, that's victory. Is that at all likely to happen?

Of course not. So stop boasting about surge victories or how Bush didn't lie or how the Iraqis are so much better off without Saddam...yadda, yadda, yadda. It's all BULLSHIT. Because none of it, not one tiny little bit of these details, even if each and every one of them was absolutely true would change the fact that our war on Iraq was one of the WORST fucking ideas we ever had. And it was one of the WORST fucking mistakes this country has ever made. And we are going to be in a deep and long economic depression because of it.

So everyone trying to convince me that Bush et al did the right thing, give it up. Because you know full well that when this war started every fucking flag waver believed it would be a fast, resounding victory, like American soldiers in WWII liberating Paris! We'd be cheered and kisses, the country would be our friend, the people would rejoice and be happy, and oil would flow our way, more than paying for all this credit card debt. None of that shit happened. None of it's going to happen. We LOST. We FUCKED UP.

And I say "we" because WE did not stop this president from doing this even though it was clear as clear that this was not something to do lightly, quickly, or without a really good reason. We broke it. We bought it...and now we're the proud owners of a lot of smashed up useless pieces. Time to stop picking up those tiny slivers and trying to point out to me how intact this or that piece is, hinting that if this piece is intact the whole thing can be glued together, good as new.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Amsterdam Dreams

KEEBLER

So what?

Your revelation is the re-discovery of fire and the wheel. Bush & Company lie, I had no idea!

Iraq isnt Vietnam, because of the oil and its strategic location.

It seems to me Bush achieves two outcomes with our presence in Iraq. He keeps Iraqi oil off the market and keeps Russia's paws off the oil.

People dont care about Iraq. There are no draftees in it.

I read a new book by Anthony Lewis last night. We'll stop our intrigues when our government is a lot smaller.

Back in the day, people used to claim that Viet Nam WAS about oil.... supposedly huge reserves... which actually are there... if not "huge". As for "strategic" is was the key cornerstone to the great domino theory.....

It has not been Bush keeping Iraqii oil off the market (and why would he???) but Al Qaeda.... As it happens, this has been a good year for Iraqii oil which benefits us exactly fuck all. Not enough supply to materially effect the price of oil, nor does the money getting paid for it, go to us; only the Iraqii government.

Now I guess if you start with the assumption that WE will pay for the entire Iraqii government cost if they cannot, I suppose this helps reduce the billions we spend there... but obviously not enough.

I appreciate your oft stated nihilism cum fascism philosphy leaves you exactly "responsible" for no one and nothing. But like it or not, your equally repeated "true conservative" micro-rants buys you Dubya.... live with it.



-KC

 

[Liar]

How do you spell "Success"?

"Sucks ass"

 

[Guest]

"Sucks ass"

Brilliant.

 

[rgraham666]

The main reason for the invasion of Iraq was to bring an end to international law. It was a message to the world. "We're in sole charge. We'll go where we want, when we want, to do what we want. And this is what happens to people who get in our way."

That didn't work either. The U.N. is still in business. All multi-national treaties still hold. We aren't falling into the international anarchy that was extant in the world up until the mid-20th Century.

Thank God for that. That anarchy was responsible for WWI and WWII. Had it returned WWIII would have been inevitable. And this time all the major combatants would have weapons of mass destruction.