Verdict About to be Delivered

[Guest]

In the Jackson trial, if anyone's interested.

I haven't been following it much, but I am interested to see what the verdict is.

 

[Boota]

I think he's probably guilty, but I doubt they will convict him. Star power makes a lot of things okay. If he is found not guilty he'll do it again.

 

[Guest]

But guilty of what? Being a complete and utter pratt?

It's all about intent and implied motive for why he shared the bed with the boy. In my opinion, the evidence isn't there, to support the claims of the boy and his Mother.

BUT, and this is a big but, if any other man in the US (or the UK, or anywhere else, for that matter) had shared his bed with a boy, he'd be in the clink so fast his feet wouldn't touch the ground.

No matter his motives, or intent, he is a very silly man who has abused his privileged position.

If he DID abuse the boy, or any others in the past, he deserves all he gets. I trust that the jury will have reached the correct verdict, with the evidence presented to them.

(And, as my hubby just said... "But, they are American." I.e. will they be blinded by "celebrity"?)

 

[Boota]

There's no question that he made a huge mistake in even putting himself in this position AGAIN. After dodging one bullet why the hell would a sane person continue to have young boys sleep over? I can't say for sure that he did anything, as I'm not privy to the information that the jury had. Circumstantially, though, it seems really damning. The part about him having an alarm system in the hall leading toward his bedroom seems pretty odd for someone who is only sleeping in the same bed with a friend.

If he didn't do it and this is just an elaborate extortion attempt, I hope they do find him not guilty, and that they go after the accusers.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

We trust the Jury won't be motivated by his celebrity to clear him, nor motivated by his eccentric behavior to assume the worst o fhim. It's a lot to assume of 12 people. making the jury consist of common folks is good, in that everyone partcipates, but in some cases, you almost wish there were professional jurors, trained to understand both prosecutorial and defense tactics.

If he gets off, there will be cries the rich can do whatever they damn well please. If he is convicted, someone, somewhere will cry racism. I couldn't care less about Jackson, but for the sake of those who may or may not have been abused by him, I hope justice is done.

 

[Hulder]

I haven't followed the case, but now i can't look away! I've even read the jury-profiles!

 

[Guest]

Not guilty on all counts delivered so far.

 

[wishfulthinking]

How many counts?

We are up to 7 here.

 

[Guest]

How many counts?

We are up to 7 here.

Edit, cos I got that completely wrong.

All verdicts in: not guilty.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Over 90, I think.QUOTE]
Fuck. I'll go have breacky.

 

[Guest]

Over 90, I think.QUOTE]
Fuck. I'll go have breacky.

LOL! I edited my post.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Wait - only 10 - he's been found not guilty.

 

[Boota]

Well, I hope he really is not guilty. I'd hate to see him getting away with something like this.

I'm not someone who automatically assumes guilt in things like this. My cousin did six years for child molestation on a false charge his daughter made when her stepdad offered to buy her a car if she did it. My friend's dad has been accused of molesting his stepgrandchildren and is facing trial right now, but I don't believe for a second he did it. I've known him my whole life and I just can't imagine a situation where that would happen. His soon-to-be ex-wife has made a habit of accusing all of her exes of molesting her daughters, and now her grandchildren.

If I were to sit on a jury concerning child molestation I would be open to the idea that not everything might be on the level, so I can't question what this jury ruled.

 

[wishfulthinking]

I thought it was money motivated. The charges hit just before the release of a new CD. And he is just such an easy target, because he is weird.

I also thought if he was guilty, some of those parents could not sit there and point the finger, but should shoulder some of the blame [morally, not legally] for their stupidity in letting their children hang out with a man old enough to be there father. They would had to have some inkling of what was going on.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Well, I hope he really is not guilty. I'd hate to see him getting away with something like this.

I'm not someone who automatically assumes guilt in things like this. My cousin did six years for child molestation on a false charge his daughter made when her stepdad offered to buy her a car if she did it. My friend's dad has been accused of molesting his stepgrandchildren and is facing trial right now, but I don't believe for a second he did it. I've known him my whole life and I just can't imagine a situation where that would happen. His soon-to-be ex-wife has made a habit of accusing all of her exes of molesting her daughters, and now her grandchildren.

If I were to sit on a jury concerning child molestation I would be open to the idea that not everything might be on the level, so I can't question what this jury ruled.

Not to offend you, but it does take a fair bit of evidence to corroborate a story of molestation, whether from the child, medically or other. My mothers sisters were raped and murdered when they were under 10, and the killer was never convicted.

 

[Guest]

I thought it was money motivated. The charges hit just before the release of a new CD. And he is just such an easy target, because he is weird.

I also thought if he was guilty, some of those parents could not sit there and point the finger, but should shoulder some of the blame [morally, not legally] for their stupidity in letting their children hang out with a man old enough to be there father. They would had to have some inkling of what was going on.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I think what it came down to in the end was the complete incredibility of the main prosecution witnesses (the boy and his Mother).

Damned if I'd give permission for my child to sleep in the same bed as a "strange" (in both senses of the word) man.

All of it is just damn weird. But, I honestly think Michael Jackson thinks he's Peter Pan and has merely been trying to grab hold of that childhood he never had.

He's still a silly man, though.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think he is guilty. I don't think he think's he's Peter Pan. I think he never matured past 12, so he is more comfortable around 12 year olds. He's alot closer to John than Peter Pan.

Think about it this way. If you took a 12 year old and gave him an unlimted bankroll, what might he do?

Buy a chimp? Build his own in home amusement park? Realize no one was setting boundaries for him and start pushing them, in all manner of ways, including his manner of dress and action? He acts like he's a young and spoiled teenager, in my opinion.

I do not believe he could pass a serious, independant, mental evaluation.

As I said earlier, I hope the Jury based their verdict on the evidence and that I am wrong, but I have the strong feeling this isn't the last time Jackson ends up accused of impropriety with a kid.

 

[wishfulthinking]

I have the strong feeling this isn't the last time Jackson ends up accused of impropriety with a kid.

If he is stupid enough to go near a kid again without some sort of chaperone, then he is leaving himself open to it, and I doubt the next time he will be as lucky.

 

[Guest]

I think he is guilty. I don't think he think's he's Peter Pan. I think he never matured past 12, so he is more comfortable around 12 year olds. He's alot closer to John than Peter Pan.

Think about it this way. If you took a 12 year old and gave him an unlimted bankroll, what might he do?

Buy a chimp? Build his own in home amusement park? Realize no one was setting boundaries for him and start pushing them, in all manner of ways, including his manner of dress and action? He acts like he's a young and spoiled teenager, in my opinion.

I do not believe he could pass a serious, independant, mental evaluation.

As I said earlier, I hope the Jury based their verdict on the evidence and that I am wrong, but I have the strong feeling this isn't the last time Jackson ends up accused of impropriety with a kid.

You just said there exactly what I was saying, just in a different way. Where we differ is that I conclude that he is not guilty (without the benefit of hearing the evidence the jury did), and you conclude he is guilty.

Would a 12 year old boy molest another 12 year old boy, in the course of playing and hanging out with him? I don't believe so. I believe his motives, and actual actions and intent, were far more innocent than that.

Also, picking up on what you said here: "I do not believe he could pass a serious, independant, mental evaluation. " You still wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt then? On grounds of deminished responsibility?

He's a messed up guy, who has been ruined by his own success. He's eccentric, he's weird, but that doesn't make him a child abuser.

Despite all that, I still think he's bloody stupid.

 

[BlackShanglan]

If he didn't do it and this is just an elaborate extortion attempt, I hope they do find him not guilty, and that they go after the accusers.

If they do, I hope that they have better evidence than they had on Jackson. By all means, prosecute extortion, blackmail, and false accusations. But not every not guilty verdict involves a false accusation. I hope that they will go cautiously on this, as heavy penalties when charges don't stick makes it that much less likely that victims of sexual crimes will come forward. I know it's a touchy field, as both the accusations and the actions involved in child molestation have the potential to destroy lives in harrowing ways. I'd just like to make sure that we ask for more than a failed prosecution as evidence that a false accusation was deliberately made.

That aside - I do think that Jackson and the family of the accuser should be shipped off to a small island somewhere to contemplate their mutual idiocy. The real shame and horror in all of this is that so many adults, from Jackson to the child's parents to the staff of Creepyland, continued to place him in situations that have no good explanation and that can lead to no good result, driven by whatever their own agendas might have been. Was there not one person willing to consider this child's safety and well being?

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Would a 12 year old boy molest another 12 year old boy, in the course of playing and hanging out with him? I don't believe so. I believe his motives, and actual actions and intent, were far more innocent than that.

There are younger sexual offenders. Violent ones, as well. And we do need to add the hormones and libido of an adult male into that equation. There's this, as well - if we take the female pedophile model instead of the male, there's a very common belief that the offender's actions are innocent and pure in motive despite being illegal. I might agree that Jackson seems a less likely figure for violent offense, but I could easily see that regressive mental tendency leaving him open to committing a different type of abuse.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You just said there exactly what I was saying, just in a different way. Where we differ is that I conclude that he is not guilty (without the benefit of hearing the evidence the jury did), and you conclude he is guilty.

Would a 12 year old boy molest another 12 year old boy, in the course of playing and hanging out with him? I don't believe so. I believe his motives, and actual actions and intent, were far more innocent than that.

Also, picking up on what you said here: "I do not believe he could pass a serious, independant, mental evaluation. " You still wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt then? On grounds of deminished responsibility?

He's a messed up guy, who has been ruined by his own success. He's eccentric, he's weird, but that doesn't make him a child abuser.

Despite all that, I still think he's bloody stupid.

My conclusion he is guilty stems from the fact kids at that age begin to experiment sexually. I'llalso admit it's just a feeling I have, one I can't explain, but one that has kept me from commenting on the subject. Certainly, I am to pre-prejudicial to be worthy of a spot on a jury.

While I believe he is guilty, I also believe in the need to prove he is. As to diminished capacity, yes, I believe he has diminished capacity in abundance. I don't think diminished capacity effects the fact you are guilty of doing something, but I do believe it removes you from the responsibility of that guilt.

Of course I am not a pshychiatrist, and to my knowledge, no Shrink has ever said he was in any way deficient.

It's just my opinion, backed as much by a gut feeling as any evidence.

 

[Guest]

If they do, I hope that they have better evidence than they had on Jackson. By all means, prosecute extortion, blackmail, and false accusations. But not every not guilty verdict involves a false accusation. I hope that they will go cautiously on this, as heavy penalties when charges don't stick makes it that much less likely that victims of sexual crimes will come forward. I know it's a touchy field, as both the accusations and the actions involved in child molestation have the potential to destroy lives in harrowing ways. I'd just like to make sure that we ask for more than a failed prosecution as evidence that a false accusation was deliberately made.

That aside - I do think that Jackson and the family of the accuser should be shipped off to a small island somewhere to contemplate their mutual idiocy. The real shame and horror in all of this is that so many adults, from Jackson to the child's parents to the staff of Creepyland, continued to place him in situations that have no good explanation and that can lead to no good result, driven by whatever their own agendas might have been. Was there not one person willing to consider this child's safety and well being?

Shanglan

Shanglan, as always, you speak a lot of sense. I completely agree that they should go very cautiously indeed on this.

As for your second paragraph: quite.

There are younger sexual offenders. Violent ones, as well. And we do need to add the hormones and libido of an adult male into that equation. There's this, as well - if we take the female pedophile model instead of the male, there's a very common belief that the offender's actions are innocent and pure in motive despite being illegal. I might agree that Jackson seems a less likely figure for violent offense, but I could easily see that regressive mental tendency leaving him open to committing a different type of abuse.

I must admit, I hadn't considered it that way.

I think I'll say no more on this matter now, because as I said above, I really haven't been following this closely. I've just been picking up small sound bites here and there and drew my own conclusions from what I know (very limited indeed), and had never given it a great deal of thought. You've given me a very different angle here.

Anyway, I still trust that the jury reached the correct verdict. They, after all, have seen all the evidence and took their time considering all of it.

Lou

 

[Guest]

My conclusion he is guilty stems from the fact kids at that age begin to experiment sexually. I'llalso admit it's just a feeling I have, one I can't explain, but one that has kept me from commenting on the subject. Certainly, I am to pre-prejudicial to be worthy of a spot on a jury.

While I believe he is guilty, I also believe in the need to prove he is. As to diminished capacity, yes, I believe he has diminished capacity in abundance. I don't think diminished capacity effects the fact you are guilty of doing something, but I do believe it removes you from the responsibility of that guilt.

Of course I am not a pshychiatrist, and to my knowledge, no Shrink has ever said he was in any way deficient.

It's just my opinion, backed as much by a gut feeling as any evidence.

Yes, true. As I said above, I hadn't considered it from this angle. I've been considering it more from an almost first hand angle, of the stereotypical type of child abuse: a man on a younger child.

You're right, kids of that age, and younger, do experiment sexually.

Ok, I'm gonna place all my blame on the mother now, no matter what actually happened.

 

[kendo1]

Well, the jury found him innocent- and they heard ALL the evidence presented.

But MJ is still fucking stupid to be sleeping in the same bed with a minor.

If any of us was in the same position- we'd be in jail so fast...