Utah gay activists protest Mormon church remarks

[Stella_Omega]

Am I too limited in my thinking by seeing the subject of anal intercourse as the religious basis for a blanket abomination of all homosexuals? Is this where "unnatural" comes from? Why is it considered unnatural? I can understand unclean in days of old, but that is not usually a problem these days.

More gay men indulge in oral sex or frottage than in anal, I bet. Plenty of men will claim that their homophobia is based on a distaste for anal pleasure. But that's bullshit. Most men hate, far far more, the idea of two men kissing over the breakfast table-- that kind of intimacy just nauseates them.

Homophobia is more akin to misogyny, and the fear and revulsion of femininity-- yet more ignorance in action, of course.

Since discussion of homosexuality often leads to the big taboo of anal intercourse at some point, no pun intended, why has there not been a comprehensive study into the positive and negative aspects of this widely practiced human behavior?

If there has been such a study and I missed it, please enlighten me. There are studies about everything it seems, is the study of anal intercourse also taboo?

Google is your friend

 

[bronzeage]

If there has been such a study and I missed it, please enlighten me. There are studies about everything it seems, is the study of anal intercourse also taboo?

I have been collecting data on the subject since I was about 16. When the research is complete, I'll publish my findings.

There are far too many heterosexual women who enjoy and sometimes prefer anal sex to classify it as a "homosexual" activity. It is a sexual activity.

There is no more need to explain why so many people enjoy it, than the need to explain why people like to kiss.

 

[AllardChardon]

I remember posting a thread about the dangers of potassium sulfate in Coca Cola and a colleague posted several studies on the negligible effects on humans and its natural place in the world.

I like reading the results of studies, provided they have been conducted.

Although the internet can supply some information, it is the usual stuff.

I think that women may enjoy anal intercourse more than men and that fact would certainly set the record straight, especially if it includes a study into the practice between gay, monogamous male lovers.

For many years I was unaware of the pleasures of anal stimulation and I wonder how many others are the same way, due to the silly taboo placed on it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If men want to enjoy penetrative intercourse at all, they have to enjoy anal. Luckily for men, the prostate gland feels a LOT like our gspot, although it's a bit further in-- I have seen men come due to prostate stim without ever touching their cocks. So for some men, intercourse is more of a sure thing than it is for some women.

But it's really interesting to me, the way women focus on anal between men. My M/M writing friends learn different eventually, but for many women the early sex scenes focus on one dude losing his virginity after angst and doubt-- a displacement if I ever saw one-- and "virginity" is defined as "anal."

But anal can feel really really gooood.

The whole of the anus is lined with really yummy nerve endings. those of us who avoided brainwashing as children can admit that the friction of the stool moving through the channel whilst taking a dump is very pleasurable-- a surefire biological mechanism for health! And those nerves head for the brain by a slightly different route than do the clitoral/penile nerves, so if you get both lines ringing at once...

well, omigod.

 

[AllardChardon]

Exactly my point, Stella, and very well said to boot.

Why would something so pleasurable be so wrong unless through religious manipulation? Was the early church worried about this kind of birth control, which was practiced by the Cathars, and it's possible reduction in revenue?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

While I completely concur with that opinion; the problem is that most of the centuries-old organized groups, virtually all of the fundies, and many other so-called "religious" zealots would happily restrict any opposing viewpoint from EVER being allowed to see the light of day when it comes to the subject of homosexuality. It's a safe bet, that a good chunk of that attitude comes from the fear that ANY positive expressions will only lead to more and more tolerance and acceptance.

Personally, I think an even larger part of their narrow outlook is due to many, many, m~a~n~y decades of various churches' leadership, putting forth highly biased, very limited, and poorly interpreted versions of what the Bible *DOES* and *DOESN'T* say on the subject....mainly because they are frightened to study it in depth, and/or take it *TO* God in complete faith & prayer, and trust whatever answer they receive.

Ignorance is something the scriptures say is automatically forgiven in children....I am not too certain that transfers to willful ignorance once the child reaches the age of reason.

They largely base their ideas on two sources: certain passages in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and Paul's attacks on the practice in his Epistles.

Of course, Paul was not an original disciple of Jesus, by his own admission. Oddly enough, he more than once states that certain positions are his own personal views (short vs. long hair, for example). How then, you might ask, does this somehow become divinely inspired Scripture, to be blindly followed by all Christian churches, rather than simply the personal correspondence of a rabbi turned first-century Christian apologist, who wasn't even among the original twelve?

Mind you, the Mormon Church's own unique beliefs about the necessity of procreation give it an added motive to oppose homosexuality, because they deem it necessary to give mortal form to pre-incarnate spirits. Toss in a few Old Testament verses, which Lewis Black quite accurately and humorously called part of an early Hebrew attempt to draw some kind of line about sex, so as not to get to the point of men marrying their camels, and you get a laundry list and dos and don'ts that inhibit a lot of sexual conduct that is far less extreme than said bestial acts.

 

[AllardChardon]

The Sensibilities of Our Forefathers
The History of Sodomy Laws in the United States
By George Painter
© Copyright, George Painter 1991-2001

Utah - The Post-Revolution Period, 1776-1873

Utah, settled in 1847, was organized as a territory in 1850. It enacted its first code of laws in 1851 as the "State of Deseret." Included was a criminal code that prohibited "any man or boy" from having, or attempting to have, "any sexual intercourse with any of the male creation." The penalty was set at fine or imprisonment "as the court may direct." This law, though probably not valid since Utah was a territory and not a state, nevertheless evidently permitted prosecution for fellatio. The "any sexual intercourse" term seemed broad enough to permit it. This would have been only the second such law in the nation.

A new code was adopted in 1852. This code made no mention either of sodomy or common-law crimes, thus legalizing sodomy in the territory.

Despite the legality of sodomy in Utah at this time, it apparently met with punishment in certain cases. In 1853, a Mormon Apostle, Parley P. Pratt, gave a sermon recommending "blood atonement" for sodomy.

In 1856, a married woman in Salt Lake City was accused of trying to seduce the daughter of a man in town. No legal sanctions were brought against her.

In 1857, a man was castrated for an undisclosed sex crime, the punishment meeting with the approval of LDS President Brigham Young. The man so punished later "went crazy."Two castrations for sodomy, or accused sodomy, also occurred in 1859.

Also in 1857, a 21-year-old Mormon soldier in Utah was ordered to be shot for an act of bestiality with his horse. Although he was pardoned, the horse was shot. There is no documentation for sodomy with a human leading to a death sentence.

In 1864, a soldier, Frederick Jones, was arrested for sodomy, but released by the trial court because there was no law making sodomy a crime. After his release, Jones was murdered (apparently by the father of his sexual partner), but charges against the father were dropped for lack of witnesses.

Period Summary: Utah showed no interest in outlawing sodomy when it was created, and remained uninterested for a quarter century, although it appears vigilante action against perpetrators was common.

I found this interesting.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And what must really upset the Vatican and others of their ilk is that four of the earliest saints were a male and a female gay couple. Check out Saints Serge and Bacchus and Saints Perpetua and Felicitas. These were not just 'nice people', they were martyred, canonized saints. Must stick in the craw, yanno?

 

[Handley_Page]

And what must really upset the Vatican and others of their ilk is that four of the earliest saints were a male and a female gay couple. Check out Saints Serge and Bacchus and Saints Perpetua and Felicitas. These were not just 'nice people', they were martyred, canonized saints. Must stick in the craw, yanno?

I suspect more "quietly ignored"

 

[AllardChardon]

I mentioned the Cathars earlier and I want to add a bit more, some quoted from Wikipedia;

"Catharism was a name given to a Christian religious sect with dualistic and gnostic elements that appeared in the Languedoc region of France and other parts of Europe in the 11th century and flourished in the 12th and 13th centuries."

They believed in a supreme God of love, that Jesus was reincarnated and not resurrected, and also that marriage and procreation was undesirable.

"Cathars, in general, formed an anti-sacerdotal party in opposition to the Catholic Church, protesting what they perceived to be the moral, spiritual and political corruption of the Church. They claimed an Apostolic succession from the founders of Christianity, and saw Rome as having betrayed and corrupted the original purity of the message..."

"Cathars vehemently repudiated the significance of the crucifixion and the cross. In fact, to the Cathars, Rome's opulent and luxurious Church seemed a palpable embodiment and manifestation on Earth of Rex Mundi's sovereignty."

"Sexual intercourse and reproduction propagated the slavery of spirit to flesh, hence procreation was considered undesirable. Informal relationships were considered preferable to marriage among Cathar credentes. Perfecti were supposed to have observed complete celibacy, and eventual separation from a partner would be necessary for those who would become Perfecti. For the credentes however, sexual activity was not prohibited, but procreation was strongly discouraged, resulting in the charge by their opponents of sexual perversion. The common English insult "bugger" is derived from "Bulgar", the notion that Cathars followed the "Bulgarian heresy" whose teaching included sexual activities which skirted procreation." (They mean sodomy here.)

"The Catholic Church regarded the sect as dangerously heretical. Faced with the rapid spread of the movement across the Languedoc region, the Church first sought peaceful attempts at conversion, undertaken by Dominicans. These were not very successful, and after the murder on 15 January 1208 of the papal legate Pierre de Castelnau by a knight in the employ of Count Raymond of Toulouse, the Church (Pope Innocent III) called for a crusade, which was carried out by knights from northern France and Germany and was known as the Albigensian Crusade."

The crusaders literally wiped out this religious group with the help of the Inquisition and the Pope's blessings.

 

[Sophus_Cat82]

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

This is a double edged sword. As Immortals, ideas good, bad and inbetween are constantly born, spread and reborn or rediscovered.

Today, ironically, many of the heresies of yesteryear are documented and easily available online.

 

[Sophus_Cat82]

Ps Voluptuary_Manquae
That pic with the bear is kinda hott.

 

[AllardChardon]

I understand the Cathars did not completely vanish as Pope innocent III (rather ironic name) would have preferred, but went underground, instead. The fact that they practiced anal intercourse to prevent pregnancy is what grabbed my attention and is what ultimately caused them to becomes victims of a"Holy War".

 

[Handley_Page]

I understand the Cathars did not completely vanish as Pope innocent III (rather ironic name) would have preferred, but went underground, instead. The fact that they practiced anal intercourse to prevent pregnancy is what grabbed my attention and is what ultimately caused them to becomes victims of a"Holy War".

The last bastion of the Cathars was assaulted in 1248/9, by forces led by the French King Louis after Count Raymond recanted and submitted to the King. Some of the faith had escaped and the faith gradually died out, to all intents and purposes.

 

[AllardChardon]

I read that several sects survived in the Languedoc region hidden from authorities. I incorporated this into the lineage of my main character, Madam Gigi. Too fascinating not to use.

Many women must have used anal sex as a way to keep from getting pregnant over the ages. The Cathars were open about it and it cost them their lives, unfortunately.