Using the Internet for Dating: Safety

[MissTaken]

Okay, in my infinite wisdom and ability to read threads, Risia has mentioned a need to rewrite the Online Predator essay. It needs to be less gender specific, for certain. Safety isn't strictly a submissive issue.

Also, I think that drafting an essay that is less frightening, more helpful and more applicable to all who meet others from the net would be a good thing to do.

Many of the safety tips and tricks we use are wise choices for anyone, kink or not.

There is some great information in that essay, but anytime I have tried to use it for conversation, it turns into a nasty ass debate!

So, take a look at the link.

Make comments about things we should keep or things that need to be deep sixed.

Thanks for all your help, in advance!

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=81203

 

[Goddess Helena]

Helena gives it a try

Make sure that you are meeting in a public place.
Think about taking a friend with you as company/backup.
Make sure that people know who are you are meeting and where you are going.
Having someone waiting for a call that you got home safe and sound is a good idea.
Telling that person what you will be home by a certain time is also helpful. If you hit it off talking at the coffee bar, call the friend and let them know. Not a big deal.
Never be alone with someone you do not know well and trust.
Never let anyone that you are not sure of know where you live.

Remember that you it takes a long time to know a person.
That people lie online and in real life.
That just because someone tells you something does not mean it's true.

Part of your job is being alert and paying attention to what is going on.

Be very careful about how much information you give people.
Online, it's very easy to trust/talk to someone and end up with a stalker.
You never know who you are talking to or whether or not they are being truthful.
We tend to get comfortable online and let our guard down.
We think it's alright because everyone uses a fake name.
But it is very easy to hunt someone down online.
(My boy is a geekboy, btw. That's how I know this stuff. )

Be wary of someone who wants to move to quickly.
Also of people who are over eager to take you home.

Set limits for the person that you are meeting before you meet them. Having plans or meeting someone else will help there. Having a friend 'run into you' at the coffee bar can also work.

Remember that the word strange is most of the word stranger.

Wow, I sound like someone's mom.

Is this along the lines of what you are looking for MissT?

Forgive me for being too lazy/headachey to reread that thread.


Helena

 

[Ebonyfire]

There are other dangers

It amazes me that we continue to harp on the internet, yet it is documented that there is more danger in your own back yard.

If you meet new people in bars, and munches, and even at the Health Club or work, you still need to be careful.

You are more likely to be harmed by someone you know, than a stranger.

Eb

 

[MissTaken]

Well, at the risk of opening a can of worms. Perhaps gathering info and creating an essay that is informative in terms of safety, period.

Many of the red flags that one would note in an internet correspondance should hold true as a real time relationship develops.

What say you all?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Well, at the risk of opening a can of worms. Perhaps gathering info and creating an essay that is informative in terms of safety, period.

Many of the red flags that one would note in an internet correspondance should hold true as a real time relationship develops.

What say you all?

I think that the rules of caution hold true for dealing with the unexpected regardless of the origin.

 

[MissTaken]

I do think that many of the safety precautions are applicable whether meeting on line or real time.

Then, I believe many are the same whether you are into BDSM or not.

To the converse, there are specific pointers that should be considered with BDSM for safety's sake.

i.e. Make sure the Dominant knows your medical history and necessary treatment. I am hypoglycemic, for example, and if my head is lolling and my body is trembling, it just may not be subspace.

 

[Pure]

On re reading the essay:

I find the beginning a bit over the top. Also sometimes useless, i.e., he's mean and bad and lying and manipulative. Maybe it's worth distinguishing an asshole and a predator, since a 'true' and successful 'predator' would I think have to have a bit of charm, the appearance of sincerity,etc.

I like some specifics about talk that 'trashes' others, or mentions conspiracies, or cautions 'don't tell'. But again, there is the issue of the 'psycho' or seriously disturbed person, versus someone who will give you a monumentally bad scene or 'date.'

I think G Helena has the basics, and as EB says, they apply to many real life encounters. Women just shouldn't get naked with someone they barely know, in a place no friend knows they are.

Esp. the point of being tied up and 'punished' by someone little known, in a private or secluded spot would seem pretty brash.

If one is really going to be paranoid, I'd add this to Helena's list.

Arrange a word or phrase to use in a phone call besides 'I'm held captive by a psycho'. Somthing like "Wow, those Lakers!" or
"Are you over your cold, yet?"

There are also a number of measures to insure that one's address and 'real' phone number are not known. Further a real (not cell) phone number often leads to a real address. A woman should arrange to call (using the *67 feature to block her number) rather than be called, if there is no cell phone.

I would say that it's best to 'hold all the cards': i.e., to know the other person's name, address, and phone; place of work, etc. while not having given out that stuff, oneself.
It is truly amazing how far some folks go with a person telling a totally unverified story. I know of 'stalking' stories that indicate
how a woman suddenly discovers much is known about her, and nothing about him; i.e., he's got the 'edge' and that was not appreciated till late in the game.

As to
"And please, trust that GUT INSTINCT."

Yes, ok, but a friend's having his true name, address, and phone is worth a 100 twitches of instinct. Routine procedures, like meeting in a public place are better than "My gut said it was OK to be alone since he's so gentle."

Further if you read stories of skilled 'predators' and con men, most people let down their defenses. The 'evil' was not really appreciated till months down the track, e.g, after marriage, etc.
Hence the Japanese practice of having a detective run a check on a potential suitor.

J.

 

[Ebonyfire]

This should go without saying but..

Take your time. What's the rush? Many times folks could have found out the truth sooner if they took their time and talk more and fuck less.

A credible facade of lies takes a lot of planning and energy. If you slow down your getting to know you process, many times the person will slip up.

Most get by cause folks "rush to judgment."

If there is a big hurry, then a red flag should go up.

Eb

 

[Lancecastor]

I've always held and expressed the view that the online predator article is crap.

For starters, it's insulting and paternalistic in tone.

Second, it completely fails to recognize that the vast majority of fraud and dangerous liasons happen in real life, not online.

Third, it completely misses the truth that men are financially rooked by online sex content sites and eastern european matchmakers in massive quantities...60 Minutes did a big expose on it years ago.

Fourth, it fails to recognize that when people fall for each other, giving them a list of Don'ts is mostly a complete waste of time.

Fifth, posting this ill-considered and unprofessional "guide" probably raises the liability of Lit owners and possibly Moderators for posting incomplete advice should something different and bad happen to a user.

I could go on....but suffice it to say I think a fetish bar on a Friday nite is a far riskier proposition than the BDSM Forum.

I think the article and its threads should be erased.

Cheers

Lance

 

[Pure]

Lancecastor said

I've always held and expressed the view that the online predator article is crap.

Second, it completely fails to recognize that the vast majority of fraud and dangerous liasons happen in real life, not online.
[...]
...I think a fetish bar on a Friday nite is a far riskier proposition than the BDSM Forum.

These seem like pretty good points, in that the whole 'online' or 'internet' danger thing is widely hyped, and the article likewise is of that ilk.

I've read a fair amount of news in the last couple years and yes occasionally a child is lured, or a woman gotten into a rape situation. Yet those things happen in real life at least as often.
In fact, given the total, vast, amount of man-woman communication on the 'net, the percentage leading to rape is minuscule. Hence a woman's chances of being led into a rape encounter by online means, are probably less than if she engages a fellow in a chat at the local bar.

We all know too, that, mostly ignoring the scare stuff, people have plunged into 'net life; have formed liaisons; have become engaged, married etc. And again, the 'broken hearts' incidents happen, but are they in greater proportion than from other ways of meeting?

Perhaps the challenge is to identify a potentially violent abuser, in any situation. Yet, based on the rl stories and the 'true life' movies, that's a pretty tall order. Rather than bloody hands, one sees charm.

Further, the point of Lance about people 'falling' for someone and not listening to advice, is relevant. Iow, while some 'charmers' can be seen through, with a bit of effort -- or talking to their ex-- the vulnerable one just doesn't make the effort, but rushes ahead on the adrenaline and endorphins.

Perhaps the point could be put thus. Some folks seem rather good judges of people, of whom they make friends with. Others are lousy, even terrible, judges; they may save themselves if they listen to friends with better radar; but lacking that they're in for trouble, regardless of the 'do's and dont's and 'warning signs' they may read.

J.

 

[MissTaken]

I do agree that the article is misleading, but didn't want to make any changes without coming to the forum

What is of value there has primarily to do with common sense safety interventions and precautions. I also believe that we, as humans, are not always prone to using common sense and there are those who need guidelines for basic precautions.

I don't feel that something that is intended to be helpful should be skewed or alarming, but moderate, if you will.

Real time, On line, Vanilla or BDSM, there are always risks. When the arenas mix and match, sometimes that lends itself to our using poorer judgement than we normally would. And certainly, age old stories and history wil indicate that judgement can go out the window when the heart is involved.

So, that is why I wanted to take a look at the issue of safety and how we present the issue here. When we have open ended threads, it is easy for Dom/mes and subs to post concerning bad experiences with potential partners and not hit on those experiences that worked well for them. Again, I find this more likely to cause alarm and to the casual on-lurker, BDSM folks begin, once again, to fit many of the stigmas attached by society.

I am rambling, but am watching, listening and perhaps we can put together something or find a piece that does addresses the issue of safety in a fair and accurate manner, on line or in real life.

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

Greetings to all. I hope you don't mind me adding my $ .02 worth.
I must come to the defense of online dating. I go to work at the ungodly hour of 3 in the morning and so therefore must be in my bed by 8 PM at the latest. This restricts me from socializing with the vast majority of the population. I don't do bars, so the internet is the only way I feel I can meet potential men for dating.
Am I cautious? You're damned straight I am! But no more than I would be if I met someone in a bar or other social function. Common sense is the key. As Pure pointed out; GUT INSTINCT is very important. Both in real time and cyber. I've come to recognise that voice and listen to it when it calls out. Because of this, I've been very fortunate to meet some great men who where looking for a sincere woman.
You know this goes both ways. Many women lie about their looks,personality, etc. When I've been in contact with a man and have sent him a photo, I am honest about myself. After all, its my intention by that time to meet and I don't want any 'tangled web" that I've spun to snare me.
Misstaken, Your guidelines are good, I follow most of them myself. Pretty much common [or is it UNCOMMON??] sense.
Maybe there are folks out there who need a bit of guidence. If so, then you're on the right track.
Best wishes in your endeavour.

-kym- chatting the men up

 

[lark sparrow]

I agree that this article is a bit over the top - particularly in the realm of "predator" and "victim". I realize that there are true horror stories which have and do occur, but my assumption (which could be wrong but is based is on what I have seen online) is that this is the exception.

My experience is that there is alot of role-playing and fantasy online, and usually, both parties involved are neither fully the predator nor the victim, but engaged in a fantasy at one level or another that eventually causes disappointment or hurt when it inevitably falls apart.

I think the article gets a bit heavy-handed, and is rather biased - which of course could still be useful to some, but heavy-handed nonetheless.

People get caught up in their own fantasies... the male Dominant is a bad, evil, nasty man for getting caught up in fantasy online... though if we look a the poor female submissive victim online, will we find that she is married, her husband doesn't know she has an online Master, she has 6 kids, there is no way she could do the graceful, lithe 15 minute gorean serves because she is 48, has bad knees and bad back and is severely overweight due to some sort of chronic and debilitating illness?

There is nothing wrong with these fantasies online, but if one is looking for something more then they have to be very cautious and particular in finding someone with the same desires - and they have to be honest with themselves. Again, in my experience, most people in chat rooms, etc. are not available and they are looking for roleplaying, fun, flirtations, friendships, drama, fantasy... but not a serious relationship that carries into real life, though they may find themselves caught up in emotions, and pulled in deeper than they expected. Someone may feel they are ready for a serious relationship, either online or carrying over into real life, but if one finds that these relationships never work out - perhaps they are not truly ready, and need to re-evaluate themselves and their methods.

I think the article has it's place among all the other articles, but wouldn't consider it a defining article of the vast majority of online "dating" experiences - it takes two to tango, and the reality is that online, real life or something there in between is frought with relationships that don't work out for one reason or another, and rarely is there a simple and clear cut "predator" and "victim".

I still find it a miracle that Mistress and I managed to find one another online with neither one really looking, but that doesn't mean everything is perfect and that is doesn't take much work and commitment to make a relationship last and accept a real life person not a perfect fantasy Dominant/submissive, when you find another who is honest, available and wanting a relationship based in reality.

I agree with much of what is said in the article, and I think it is good advice if someone is unaware of information therein contained, but the "predator/victim" mentality is still a bit over the top, as well as male/female bias in my opinion.

This is not about safety persay, but may contain some ideas to mingle in with or temper those of the predator and victim idea. http://www.steel-door.com/Fantasy_vs_Reality.html

 

[Lancecastor]

perhaps we can put together something or find a piece that does addresses the issue of safety in a fair and accurate manner, on line or in real life.

I say if you want to start thread(s) on dating dafety, fill your boots.

But making online BDSM discussion sound dangerous to women with a Sticky is statistically unfounded fearmongering.