Using basic terms incorrectly...

[BotanyBoy]

The political right wing has traditionally been associated with, at the extreme, monarchies, reactionary politics, and fascism. Hardly bastions of liberalism.

That's correct but it is dishonest on a number of levels to assign the right wing at large those values.

Also if you study and pay attention you will notice that extreme right wing politics are not at all dissimilar from "extreme" left wing politics. So much so some people think Nazi Germany was left wing and some think the Soviet Union and Red China were right wing. At the extremes the lines blur considerably and traits of both are abound.

The reality is the average political right wing is all about freedom from government control over economics and social interactions of people in an attempt to erase the natural hierarchies that occur in the absence of government.

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

That is to say they are the opposition to socialism/social justice, that's what makes libertarianism and classical liberalism considered right wing instead of left. They both are all about social and economic freedom...so much so they even include the freedom to be a greedy, racist, class snob and hyper competitive asshole. If you're not winning you're a fuckin' looser.

Social and economic hierarchy. Something the left simply cannot stand.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Every time you claimed they were left wing.

So I’ve now asked you six times to quote where I've said “they want left wing government, socialism, communism” and you have failed to do so; at this stage I think it pretty safe for any casual observer to conclude the reason why you haven’t is because you can’t.

The reason why you can’t is because I have never thought such a thing let alone written it. And this is not the first time you have engaged in such in this thread.

And here-in is a cast iron example of the issue that’s kept this going for the past 18 pages or so; you are not having a conversation with either myself or Daily, you are having a conversation with voices inside your head telling you what you need us to say for you to keep your beliefs intact rather than anything we are actually saying.

It goes further; you have also dismissed out of hand and refused to read authoritive, explanations of what anarchism is, the history behind or any of the actual writings of anarchist philosophy/theory. Again to keep your world view intact and safe from any form of reality.

The conversation, such that it is, is tantamount to a conversation with a creationist who believes the world is made by god 6000 years ago! They also dismiss evidence out of hand; ignore authoritive writing, ignore what is being said to them, torture logic till it makes no sense at all. They do this to keep their beliefs intact and eschew facts; it is a delusional approach to any topic.

Now to be crystal clear: Anarchism IS an extreme left-wing ideology.

They DO NOT want left wing government, socialism and communism.

There is a linkage between Anarchism and Socialism often linking arms against a common foe, Capitalism. Which is what makes them a leftist ideology.

But Socialism, like capitalism is an economic system, and anarchy seeks to abolish economics altogether perhaps best exemplified among hunter/gatherer bands.

The reasons why have been set out in the proceeding pages in multiple ways, multiple times. I would generally offer to write a brief summary, but, I fear your delusion too deep to evaluate it in a rational way; besides it’s already been set out adequately in Britannica, Anarchists library and Wiki and we know how rationally you dealt with that.

Woof!

 

[richard_daily]

Even on gay marriage they still seek societal control. They want to control who thinks and says and does what about it.

Think a little harder...

anti-immigration,anti-trans rights, anti-abortion rights, anti-native american rights, voter suppression, free speech suppression (protest zones), warantless wiretapping, the Patriot act, etc etc etc...

 

[BotanyBoy]

, you are having a conversation with voices inside your head telling you what you need us to say for you to keep your beliefs intact .

LOL you think WAAAAAAY too highly of your words.

It goes further; you have also dismissed out of hand and refused to read authoritive, explanations of what anarchism is, the history behind or any of the actual writings of anarchist philosophy/theory. Again to keep your world view intact and safe from any form of reality.

No I didn't, I read it.

That's how I know they don't definitively say anarchism is left wing. Just that most left wingers claim it with all sorts of lefty bullshitting to support it.

And I repeatedly disagree with those arguments because you can't have leftism without a government to force it.

You really should learn how to read.

Now to be crystal clear: Anarchism IS an extreme left-wing ideology.

How?

With government control and authority being absolutely central to leftism, how the fuck is anarchism left wing?

How is anarchism, the freest of social and economic markets possible GUARANTEEING inequity and social hierarchy congruent with left wing politics in any way shape form or fashion?

They DO NOT want left wing government, socialism and communism.

Oh so then they aren't left wing.....glad we agree.

There is a linkage between Anarchism and Socialism often linking arms against a common foe, Capitalism. Which is what makes them a leftist ideology.
!

Anarchism is not anti-capitalism...that is socialism.

Anarchism is anti-government...which is anti-socialist, anti-left wing.

They are not the same thing and being anti government doesn't make you left wing, if anything it makes you distinctly not-left wing and more than likely a free market capitalist.

 

[Que]

It's pretty simple the left turns to anarchy when they are not in power and totalitarianism when they are.

Fidel committed acts of anarchy not because he's an anarchist but because he was not in power. As soon as he was in power he surely wasn't advocating anarchy.

I used to see the Anarchist Cookbook at my local little indie hippie bookstore. As soon as Clinton came to power suddenly that was not appropriate reading materials for the masses.

Hippie professors we're all about power ti the people in the sixties when their guys were not in power. You don't hear it that from them these days. Now that they simply want some more of Johnson's Great Society.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It's pretty simple the left turns to anarchy when they are not in power and totalitarianism when they are.

Fidel committed acts of anarchy not because he's an anarchist but because he was not in power. As soon as he was in power he surely wasn't advocating anarchy.

I used to see the Anarchist Cookbook at my local little indie hippie bookstore. As soon as Clinton came to power suddenly that was not appropriate reading materials for the masses.

Hippie professors we're all about power ti the people in the sixties when their guys were not in power. You don't hear it that from them these days. Now that they simply want some more of Johnson's Great Society.

Is it really anarchy if they are backing socialism/social justice though?

That's my beef....according to the definitions of anarchism and socialism that just makes you a socialist.

Not actually an anarchist.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

LOL you think WAAAAAAY too highly of your words.

It doesn’t matter what I think of my words or not. That is exactly what you demonstrated over the last few posts and still are.

No I didn't, I read it.

That's how I know they don't definitively say anarchism is left wing. Just that most left wingers claim it with all sorts of lefty bullshitting to support it.

And I repeatedly disagree with those arguments because you can't have leftism without a government to force it.

You really should learn how to read.

http://mitternachtsspitzen.designblog.de/images/kunde/2017/Liebe%20tr%C3%A4gt%20ein%20weiches%20Fell/Hundle.gif
So you read it, the words from individuals who self-identify as anarchists, acknowledged as being anarchists and the anarchist movements themselves and have come to the conclusion that they are wrong and you’re right???

And then say I “think WAAAAAAY too highly of your words.”
http://mitternachtsspitzen.designblog.de/images/kunde/2017/Liebe%20tr%C3%A4gt%20ein%20weiches%20Fell/Hundle.gif
http://mitternachtsspitzen.designblog.de/images/kunde/2017/Liebe%20tr%C3%A4gt%20ein%20weiches%20Fell/Hundle.gif
http://mitternachtsspitzen.designblog.de/images/kunde/2017/Liebe%20tr%C3%A4gt%20ein%20weiches%20Fell/Hundle.gif
Anything to keep your delusions intact, huh!

So it want's socialism, social justice and communism then right?

Delusional….not borne out by the facts.

Oh so then they aren't left wing.....glad we agree.

Delusional….not borne out by the facts.

Anarchism is not anti-capitalism...that is socialism.

Definitely, positively and demonstrably not read anything beyond ONE of the quotes I posted and/or the first few sentences of Wiki only…..which makes it…..delusional.

Anarchism is anti-governmnet.

Yes it is……Capitalist and Socialist.

They are not the same thing and being anti government doesn't make you left wing, if anything it makes you distinctly not-left wing and more than likely a free market capitalist.

Except they see Capitalists as the oppressors, first and foremost and the government as the mechanism through which the Capitalist act.

Woof!

 

[BotanyBoy]

So you read it, the words from individuals who self-identify as anarchists, acknowledged as being anarchists and the anarchist movements themselves and have come to the conclusion that they are wrong and you’re right???

I didn't acknowledge them as being anarchist I'm directly arguing otherwise and your links to them self-identifying as anarchist is a piss fucking poor counterargument.

I argue that because they want a government to come in and take over the means of production and distribution, they are not anarchist, but socialist.

Yes it is……Capitalist and Socialist.

Oh good so they aren't left wing, glad we agree.

Capitalism btw is not a government system, it is the natural state of private economic exchange between individuals without government interference that's why anarchy isn't opposed to it.

Except they see Capitalists as the oppressors, first and foremost and the government as the mechanism through which the Capitalist act.

Woof!

That is because they don't understand that government control over the means and markets is NOT capitalism.

Nor are the people the people promoting or using government to control the means and markets, the oppression they are fighting against, capitalist.

We have a word for people that advocate government ownership, control and administration over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.

Want to take a wild guess at what that word is?

Hint: It's not capitalism or capitalist.

 

[richard_daily]

I didn't acknowledge them as being anarchist I'm directly arguing otherwise and your links to them self-identifying as anarchist is a piss fucking poor counterargument.

I argue that because they want a government to come in and take over the means of production and distribution, they are not anarchist, but socialist.



Oh good so they aren't left wing, glad we agree.

Capitalism btw is not a government system, it is the natural state of private economic exchange between individuals without government interference that's why anarchy isn't opposed to it.




That is because they don't understand that government control over the means and markets is NOT capitalism.

Nor are the people the people promoting or using government to control the means and markets, the oppression they are fighting against, capitalist.

We have a word for people that advocate government ownership, control and administration over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.

Want to take a wild guess at what that word is?

Hint: It's not capitalism or capitalist.

You used the term "left wing" incorrectly again.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You used the term "left wing" incorrectly again.

Oh look who can't point out where or how again.

Mr. USSR is right wing.....

Let me guess you can link wiki!!! Which isn't at all in conflict with anything I've said.

Oh and don't forget to never formulate any thoughts or arguments of your own. Much less explain how or point out where exactly I misused any of the terms you claim I have.

Just keep saying "Nuh uhhhhh!!! " and then never backing the shit up.

 

[richard_daily]

Oh look who can't point out where or how again.

Mr. USSR is right wing.....

Let me guess you can link wiki!!! Which isn't at all in conflict with anything I've said.

Oh and don't forget to never formulate any thoughts or arguments of your own. Much less explain how or point out where exactly I misused any of the terms you claim I have.

Just keep saying "Nuh uhhhhh!!! " and then never backing the shit up.

I've given you the correct definition for left wing about 7 times now. You continue to use your own, invented definition. That's on you.

 

[water505]

I've given you the correct definition for left wing about 7 times now. You continue to use your own, invented definition. That's on you.

STFU, Miles!

 

[Que]

You used the term "left wing" incorrectly again.

Dick's Daily Daffynition:

Left wing- all the promises of a Marxist Utopia without any of the mechanisms to bring that about.

 

[richard_daily]

Dick's Daily Daffynition:

Left wing- all the promises of a Marxist Utopia without any of the mechanisms to bring that about.

Marxism is one small type of the Left Wing, but you don't understand Marxism, any more than you understand any other political term.

Anarchism is another part of the left wing. BB has a hard time comprehending that.

Egalitarianism is what the left wing is.

The right wing is about social control.

You know that though, since you're a part of that, and you adhere to those values.

Here, check it out for yourself:

http://personality-testing.info/tests/RWAS/

I'm at 3.68%... let me know here you land. I'm guessing about 75%.

 

[Rightguide]

Marxism is one small type of the Left Wing, but you don't understand Marxism, any more than you understand any other political term.

Anarchism is another part of the left wing. BB has a hard time comprehending that.

Egalitarianism is what the left wing is.

The right wing is about social control.

You know that though, since you're a part of that, and you adhere to those values.

Here, check it out for yourself:

http://personality-testing.info/tests/RWAS/

I'm at 3.68%... let me know here you land. I'm guessing about 75%.

Yeah sure, nobody understands communism, the left, or history, except you, right? Truth is, your understandings are mostly positions of ignorance.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I've given you the correct definition for left wing about 7 times now. You continue to use your own, invented definition. That's on you.

Uh hua and I've said nothing that violates that definition.

You just need to learn how to read.

Dick's Daily Daffynition:

Left wing- all the promises of a Marxist Utopia without any of the mechanisms to bring that about.

Nailed it. He, the doggie and BND are seemingly convinced that leftism is all about voluntary compliance and participation. No need for ANY government authority or control! Socialism will naturally happen if you just get rid of the evil capitalist and their damn markets!!

That must be why Daily thinks the USSR and Red China were right wing capitalist....

LMFAO!!!

Anarchism is another part of the left wing. BB has a hard time comprehending that.

Why don't you try arguing that instead of just stating it?

Oh you can't, because you don't understand the concepts of leftism which require government authority and control or anarchism which abhors it.

Egalitarianism is what the left wing is.

And what is the ONLY method for their pursuit of that? Socialism, Social Justice and Communism through government social and economic control.

The right wing is about social control.

No it's not, it's about capitalism and social liberty with free association.....social and economic hierarchy as opposed to the lefts desire for social and economic equity.

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

 

[BotanyBoy]

"These are the results of the Right-wing Authoritarianism Scale.

Your score for right-wing authoritarianism was 22.73%. Higher scores indicate more right-wing authoritarianism. "

Interesting test....

 

[Que]

Marxism is one small type of the Left Wing, but you don't understand Marxism, any more than you understand any other political term.

Anarchism is another part of the left wing. BB has a hard time comprehending that.

Egalitarianism is what the left wing is.

The right wing is about social control.

You know that though, since you're a part of that, and you adhere to those values.

Here, check it out for yourself:

http://personality-testing.info/tests/RWAS/

I'm at 3.68%... let me know here you land. I'm guessing about 75%.

17.05%

Great test designed to weed out people that weren't happy with post-war War II beatniks followed by hippies. Great test if you're trying to find religious fundamentalists.

-Which one doesn't have to be to be a conservative or not a leftist. Does not address at all how you feel about private property rights or government interference in people's commerce.

 

[richard_daily]

Is it really anarchy if they are backing socialism/social justice though?

That's my beef....according to the definitions of anarchism and socialism that just makes you a socialist.

Not actually an anarchist.

Yes, it IS really anarchy.

Left wing = egalitarianism. Most anarchists are egalitarianists.

 

[Que]

. . . Not to mention the fact that this is checking for authoritarianism which you are conflating with being right wing and it absolutely is not. There are two separate axis that determine where you fall on the political spectrum and authoritarianism can fall to the left or the right.

 

[richard_daily]

Yeah sure, nobody understands communism, the left, or history, except you, right? Truth is, your understandings are mostly positions of ignorance.

Lots of people understand these simple terms. You don't, but many others in this thread have clearly demonstrated that they do.

 

[richard_daily]

Uh hua and I've said nothing that violates that definition.

You just need to learn how to read.




Nailed it. He, the doggie and BND are seemingly convinced that leftism is all about voluntary compliance and participation. No need for ANY government authority or control! Socialism will naturally happen if you just get rid of the evil capitalist and their damn markets!!

That must be why Daily thinks the USSR and Red China were right wing capitalist....

LMFAO!!!



Why don't you try arguing that instead of just stating it?

Oh you can't, because you don't understand the concepts of leftism which require government authority and control or anarchism which abhors it.



And what is the ONLY method for their pursuit of that? Socialism, Social Justice and Communism through government social and economic control.



No it's not, it's about capitalism and social liberty with free association.....social and economic hierarchy as opposed to the lefts desire for social and economic equity.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

You realize that the quote from wiki that you posted, backs up what I'm saying, right?

 

[Que]

Yes, it IS really anarchy.

Left wing = egalitarianism. Most anarchists are egalitarianists.

. . . Because eliminating a government structure that is providing a social safety net makes for equal outcomes for all doesn't it?

 

[richard_daily]

"These are the results of the Right-wing Authoritarianism Scale.

Your score for right-wing authoritarianism was 22.73%. Higher scores indicate more right-wing authoritarianism. "

Interesting test....

That's about where I expected you to fall, to be honest.

 

[richard_daily]

. . . Because eliminating a government structure that is providing a social safety net makes for equal outcomes for all doesn't it?

You are having a LOT of trouble. There are more than one kind of leftist. There are statists, and there are anti-statists. Anti-statists on the left are anarchists. Anti-statists on the right are militiamen.

Also, I've never met a left winger who advocated equal outcomes... perhaps you mean equal opportunity?

I don't expect you to get those terms either.