Using another language in difficult scene

[NaokoSmith]

In a moment of intense political correctness (oh alright, I just thought it was hugely funny!) I decided to have some of the werewolves in my stories speak Welsh. They live in Wales, after all.

Now I have a difficult scene I wrote in which one of them is abusively assaulted by some humans who ought to be Welsh speakers too. However I think that putting in a translation of their dialogue in brackets is going to be a pain and break up the scene. Perhaps the flow of the scene will be sufficient and readers won't mind it being broken up? I would rather the rotten swine did it properly in Welsh, and if left to myself I would do it for the heck of it. However it's perfectly tenable that they would be English-speaking Welsh abusers. Can you let me know what you think?

(For those who are really interested, there is of course a politics behind a Welsh speaking werewolf being attacked by English speaking humans, but really I feel that the Welsh Language Board are unlikely to find the story here and come after me - if they do, I can say, Hey, look at all the good work I did introducing Welsh on here at all ROFL.)

Thank you.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

If you're writing for a non-Welsh-reading audience, you might be sacrificing meaning for realism. I find the interlinear translation approach disruptive in fiction, so I usually, no matter what the language, write easy-to-figure-out snippets in the mono/dia -logues and the most of it in English. This way the reader gets that they're speaking the other language, but also gets what they're saying without needing a footnote or other such device. At least, that's what I hope happens.

Of course, here in Quebec, Loi 101 requires that the French comes first and must be at least twice the size font as the English, otherwise you get a visit from the language police of L'Office de la Langue Francaise. O! Mon dieu! J'oublai la cedile! et ou les accents aigus aussi?

 

[sr71plt]

No, translations in brackets or parentheses in fiction don't fly in sanctioned technique. You need to work the translation into the narrative or dialogue somehow. It's tricky, but that's what you need to do.

 

[ishtat]

Rubysen

An Indian woman who used to write here in English under the name of Rubysen (rubysen?) used to put small parts of her stories in Bengali. She followed the method advocated above by sr71plt - sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I once tried writing conversation in strictly rendered regional variants (because I thought it was so charming, the two people were so different) and I would say...

I lost my readership so fast the vacuum left my ears popping.

It was SO much fun to do. But I wouldn't do it again.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Guys, thanks for this.

Yup, Tio, it's similar here to Canada. Welsh has to be on everything. Even road signs to the English region the Midlands have to be translated into 'Middle Lands' in Welsh. This is a completely invented modern term, Welsh speakers have no idea what it means. We give extra points in the sign game if we're driving up there and spot one of those. I like to think this was actually thought up by someone in the signs department who had a dark sense of humour.

I will take a look at Pilot's and Ishtat's suggestion for the rest of the chapters, but I think as Stella says, I might have to drop it for this one and have the bastards English speaking bastards. At least the Welsh will like that.

 

[lovecraft68]

I went with a completely "ghetto" method.

"Drop and roll when I make my move." Mark told me softly in Latin,

"What was that asshole?" Bill asked, waving the gun. "What kind of shit you talkin'"

Cheap and easy. No complaints.

Also if the story takes place in that region could the reader not assume the language being spoken?"

 

[NaokoSmith]

I went with a completely "ghetto" method.

"Drop and roll when I make my move." Mark told me softly in Latin,

"What was that asshole?" Bill asked, waving the gun. "What kind of shit you talkin'"

Cheap and easy. No complaints.

Also if the story takes place in that region could the reader not assume the language being spoken?"

Oh, good one. Only in Wales, both English and Welsh are widely spoken so one can't assume one or the other.

I put some stuff up with a few words in Welsh and the translation in brackets, it makes me and the very few Welsh speakers on here laugh. I toyed with the idea of writing one whole chapter in Welsh, it's still on the drawing board. I don't actually speak Welsh myself! (only a few words like Fuck Off and Darling) but I managed to find someone to write those bits for me.

 

[oggbashan]

I cheated with one of my Flawed Red Silk series, no. 10:

(Many of the conversations in this chapter should be in colloquial French but are shown in English. They are not a translation but a re-telling in English.)

 

[Handley_Page]

Oh, good one. Only in Wales, both English and Welsh are widely spoken so one can't assume one or the other.

I put some stuff up with a few words in Welsh and the translation in brackets, it makes me and the very few Welsh speakers on here laugh. I toyed with the idea of writing one whole chapter in Welsh, it's still on the drawing board. I don't actually speak Welsh myself! (only a few words like Fuck Off and Darling) but I managed to find someone to write those bits for me.

Is it true that the translation of a road sign turned out to be "leave a message and I'll call back"?

 

[oggbashan]

Welsh signs

I liked the mistaken Welsh sign that appeared on the internet a few years ago, from a South Wales council that I won't mention to save the innocent.

It was a road diversion sign that said in English something like:

"Road Closed Ahead. Follow Diversion Signs at next Roundabout"

In Welsh it said:

"Please translate this into Welsh for those few who'll ignore it in English."

 

[NaokoSmith]

I cheated with one of my Flawed Red Silk series, no. 10:

(Many of the conversations in this chapter should be in colloquial French but are shown in English. They are not a translation but a re-telling in English.)

Unfortunately I will probably get done by the Welsh Language Board if I do that. Their wish not to admit they come on this site will overcome their fury that the language was scorned in any way. I've already had to put a disclaimer up saying all the characters are fictional, otherwise I just know someone is going to come along and say the gay masochist werewolf with piercings who is a senior civil servant is them!

 

[oggbashan]

Is it true that the translation of a road sign turned out to be "leave a message and I'll call back"?

Link to BBC report

Another

Bladder?

 

[NaokoSmith]

Ha ha ha! Trust you, Og. Fab.

It totally is like that here.

It's all a plot. The road design here is part of the plot. You can only figure out how to get round the road systems if your grandfather was one of the crew who built it. We charge to come over the Severn Bridge but not to go back to Lloegr (England). The Welsh like to keep their people here and the English out. They got God to sort the weather out so it rains all the time and puts the English off except for micro-pockets which I'm not allowed to tell you about where we in Wales go for caravanning holidays by exquisitely beautiful beaches (see Harry Potter films, yup, that's where I go in the summer).

Living in Wales, I often feel glad I'm Scottish! (Seriously.)

 

[oggbashan]

We have some odd road signs in Kent, mainly on temporary road works.

I understand that part of the problem is that our County Council has a contract with one of our local prisons to produce road signs.

That prison is specialist. It houses foreign criminals whose native language is not English.

No wonder some of our road signs are odd.

Genuine and old:

Misc:

Not so secret:

 

[oggbashan]

 

[NaokoSmith]

ROFLOL!

Pratt's Bottom! You made that one up yourself.

WRONG WAY, ROFL.

 

[oggbashan]

ROFLOL!

Pratt's Bottom! You made that one up yourself.

WRONG WAY, ROFL.

Pratt's Bottom exists. Some of the signs around the village are unusual such as Pratt's Bottom Free Church, Pratt's Bottom Women's Institute.

Women's Institute? How about this village near Maidstone, Kent - Loose. There is a women's Morris Dance group called "Loose Women" but their website has been hacked recently and is unsafe.

Unfortunately the village is actually pronounced 'Lose' (as in "I lose my temper") not 'Loose'.

This is a List of odd place names in the UK.

The river Piddle or Puddle or Trent in Dorset has led to some interesting place names. Piddletrenthide couldn't decide whether the river was the Piddle or the Trent. This Brewery produces good beer even if the names make it awkward to order in a pub.

A short list of unusual Australian Place Names

 

[Handley_Page]

ROFLOL!

Pratt's Bottom! You made that one up yourself.

WRONG WAY, ROFL.

Oh No. It's near Bromley in Kent.

My favourite is an arrow pointing right and the words "Keep left" under it.