Usage of underaged characters in stories...

[flawed_ethics]

First off, I know the rule: No sexual situations with anyone under eighteen. PERIOD! Easy. Simple.

This doesn't negate the usage of underage characters in a story, of course. A family can have kids, but if the wife has a wild side she might wait until her kids were off to school before getting it on with the cable guy, for example. No harm to the kids, no foul.

But how far does this extend? In the story I'm writing (Incest - mom/son), a brother and sister (19 and 17, respectively) are talking in the basement after the sister gets done doing some bench presses. They're talking about the family, and in the end she hugs him, despite being all sweaty. It acknowledges that she presses up against him and that he can feel her breasts against his chest, but he doesn't think anything sexual of it (yet). It's just ackward for him.

Towards the end of the story the son is going to have a bad dream where he's dreaming he and his sister are getting it on. That part will have his mind racing with revulsion at the concept, but he continues to get a rise out of it. When he wakes up cumming, he finds out that his mom is giving him a blowjob.

Now I KNOW that dream sequence will have everyone up in arms, and it would likely leave that chapter rejected based on that alone. But it is integral to the story that the idea of incest as something downright wrong be exclamated by the thought of him and his sister sexually.

I could change things around by maybe having her becoming scantly clad in his dream, and getting a rise out of it. Like Britney Spears in her videos before she turned 18. I could ditch the dream portion all together and have him think something lame like, "I'm doing my mom. What's next? My sister? Eww!" and run from there. But it would cheapen the story, and I'd rather not do that.

Comments, suggestions anyone?

 

[TheEarl]

Make the sister 18. Maybe not what you first had in mind, but aging her one year seems a small sacrifice compared to the other alternatives.

The Earl

 

[Chicklet]

I agree with the ear. However, I have seen incest stories where the characters are described as younger than 18. Nothing happens when they're that age, but the description is there nonetheless. It might pass and be put online, but yeah, why not just make her 18 and not deal with it?

Chicklet

 

[pop_54]

Ha

Welcome to the minefield friend.

Don't let anyone under 18 even dream of sex, it doesn't happen.
Well not in internet land anyway.

If the family have to be mentioned in the story, you're on your own as to how to do it. I'd suggest the words 'youngsters', 'kids',
even baby if there is one, rather than ages.
Once the magic 18 is breached downward as an age number, the censors begin to panic and even if no sex is involved at the time the 'kid' is mentioned, chances are the story will be flamed.

Shame, this situation can ruin a believable story, but that's life I'm affraid.

pops..............

 

[Pure]

Pop_54 said


Don't let anyone under 18 even dream of sex, it doesn't happen.
Well not in internet land anyway.


Not sure what planet you're living on. There's lots of child sex stories around. We're only dealing with literotica rules, which they have adopted for their own reasons. Child sex stories (texts, no illustrations) are not 'child porn' according to most laws in the field.

As to Flawed's question, I think the Earl has the simplest answer.

What possible diff could it make if the ages were 18 and 20? Is it worth going to the wall over?

That said, there is another approach which often 'works'--i.e., passes lit. criteria. Do NOT say the age, but suggest late teens, as in "She was a high-school senior, with all the womanly curves." The guy can be second year university. Unspecified ages work rather well, I seem to recall, so long as you don't go into obvious 'child' territory and indicate the sham: i.e., don't say that her pubic hair was just beginning to appear, and her breasts barely at the 'bud' stage.

 

[Chicklet]

i just have to mention that when i wrote a story and described a "young girl" Laurel changed it to "18-yo-girl"

 

[Pure]

Chicklet said,

//I just have to mention that when i wrote a story and described a "young girl" Laurel changed it to "18-yo-girl"//

That's probably because 'young girl' can be read in different ways, i.e as 7, 12 or even 18. I believe, though I'm not absolutely sure, that 'she was in her late teens' would make it.

Another factor is how closely the story is scrutinized. Also whether it's dicey, as in incest.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Actually, mentioning kids are OK, as long as they are not involved in anything remotely sexual. Like

"we left the kids with their grandma and went up to the cabin for the weekend."

or

"after she had tucked the baby in and made sure that he had fallen asleep, she went downstairs to seduce her husband."

 

[MathGirl]

Ages

The only story I've had rejected here was because it was thought underage persons were involved.

There was no sex, and I stated at the end of the story that all characters were eighteen or older.

Maybe I just got an editor who was OTR, but they seem to be very sensitive about that.

Doesn't hurt to submit it, though. I've never bitched or resubmittted that story. It just sits there on my submissions list with a blue "rejected" on it.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

My The Sorceror's Boner got rejected, with a note attached to it, saying "are there any minors in this story?".

I resubmitted it, explaining that yes, there are minors in it, but they are in no way involved in any sexual acts. The people who are having sex are 18, 18, and 19 years old.

It got accepted the second time around.

 

[gauchecritic]

This has been discussed before, along with cousins being incest (and mothers-in-law for fucks sake) but as I understand it the reasoning behind the 18 years barrier (though pointless to most of the rest of the world) is that the "authorities" who can and would, under sufficient provocation/reasoning delete sites it considers/has been forced to consider as under age.

It's just a line and 18 is where it's been drawn. As most people know leave the ages to your readers imagination.

Gauche

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Do cousins count as incest?

 

[Pure]

You mean doing my cousin and her daughter??

 

[Guest]

Ya know, I don't understand what the big deal is. Why do people constantly bring up this topic at Lit? Laurel and Manu have their rules for their reasons.

There was a time when they stated they didn't want characters under 18 in sexual situations due to U.S. Law, but as many know the law has changed when it comes to the written word. Yet Laurel and Manu haven't changed their rules. Why? It's their perogative. It's their site. Their rules. Simple as that.

Why cry, bitch, and moan about it? Why does one *need* a 17, 16, or even 14 year old character in their story...in a sexual light? Why is it so hard to write about an 18 year old (or older)?

If you *need* a story about people under 18 having sex (or thinking about it) go pay for White Shadows or look at ASSTR (or whatever the hell it's called). Laurel and Manu provide this site to us for free. It is, in my opinion, the best story/bulletin board site out there. (And, I'm a member to a few others so I can compare.) They can do what they want with it.

 

[TheEarl]

We're not complaining, just looking how far we could push it.

On the subject of not needing under 18s in stories: personally I've got a few stories that would be written better with 16 y/os (age of consent in England). I prefer Lit to everything else, so I keep them here and keep the ages above 18. But I think in some cases it is preferable.

The Earl

 

[Svenskaflicka]

You mean doing my cousin and her daughter??

No, I mean, does a story about a guy having sex with his cousin counts as an incest story?

 

[Guest]

Cousin sex might not be as "taboo" as a parent fucking their child, but it's still family relation.

 

[pop_54]

Hi again

No, I mean, does a story about a guy having sex with his cousin counts as an incest story?

It does on most sites, although in law it isn't incest to screw your cousin in most countries.

Although it's legal to marry a cousin in the UK, families tend to frown on such close relationships and often such marriages cause huge family bust up's.
Although in some families among the upper crust it's considered the polite thing to marry a cousin in order to preserve the family blood line in tact and keep them all on the outer fringe of sanity.

On the other subject, of course it's up to the site owners to decide their relevant rules and regulations, they own the bloody thing after all, and shouldn't be dictated to.

I understand the frustration of some however, like others I have stories of quite legal relationships that can't be altered to make sense, so I just don't try to post them.

On the subject of the general internet age limit, more and more sites are adopting the 18 rule by the week for story boards, I've had two stories deleted from another site this last month due to the age restriction changes. Both tales had been up on the board for over 6 months.
One contained a sex scene with a 17 yr old girl and youth in the story line, love story and they weren't related.
The other mentioned a family member as being an 11 yr old boy, even though he was just a family member and took no part in anything sexual, he was too young to exist for internet story purposes it appears.

pops.............

 

[pop_54]

Re: Hi again

Double entry, ignore.

 

[Pure]

BB said, about lit's over 18 rule

//Why cry, bitch, and moan about it? //

I didn't see that. I saw discussion of the practicalities of living with it, and an attempt to draw out the weird implications and extra sub rules that have to be made up to enforce that line.

How about this, at the beginning of the posted story, say "PM me for the key. " To anyone who PM's the author, the author says, "mentally subtract five from all the age figures given in the posted version. It will make better sense."

The child porn law likewise has run into heavy seas over phrasing that says the law applies to pictures of "person under 18, or who appear to be so, in sexual situations." Iow a model of 20, with 'girlish' anatomy, could be prosecuted for appearing in a film of Romeo and Juliet. And the thorny issue of
computed generated 'morphs' of persons appearing to be under 18 has already caused a ruckus.

Consider, in the written realm, a story of planet Tralfamadore's folk and their couplings. Generally, an on the outside, they look much like humans, except for some odd prominences on the head, a silvery metallic cast to the skin, and a second set of breasts for the females.

The folk live to 700 years, but are considered to be adults at 100 years, at which time they are pretty mature in mind, have telepathic powers, and able to reproduce. But this is how they LOOK, as described in the story: The Tralfamadorian secondary sexual characteristics develop VERY slowly, like so:

At 100 they look like our 8 year olds, at 200, they look like our 10 year olds, and so on. Not until 600 do they look like our 18 year olds, there, as here, the 500 year old(=16) are often pretty adult looking.


so does the rule apply to any being--even a non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?

 

[Chicklet]

so does the rule apply to any being--ever a non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?

i'd think not cause you've always got the stories about the girls who shave themselves to look younger and so forth

 

[DarlingNikki]

hmm

I could have sworn I read a story on this site about a boy who eventually hooked up with his neighbor who was a good friend of his mother. The boy used to go swimming with the neighbor and the story described him admiring her breasts and getting erections at the age of 8 or so. The relationship was consummated as an 18th birthday present, but there was definite "sexuality" involved when he was still a boy.

I haven't looked at other sites I could have mixed up with this one... but am I just tripping?

 

[Guest]

so does the rule apply to any being--ever a non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?

What is a being--that is an ever non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?

 

[TheEarl]

I have read a story on this site with a 16 y/o character. I did e-mail Laurel at the time. Dunno whether it's still here. Presumably just slipped through the net.

The Earl

 

[Guest]

I could have sworn I read a story on this site about a boy who eventually hooked up with his neighbor who was a good friend of his mother. The boy used to go swimming with the neighbor and the story described him admiring her breasts and getting erections at the age of 8 or so. The relationship was consummated as an 18th birthday present, but there was definite "sexuality" involved when he was still a boy.

I haven't looked at other sites I could have mixed up with this one... but am I just tripping?

If it is from Lit, report it to Laurel. She'll remove it.