US unfriendly?

[sr71plt]

Paris and Parisians are supposed to be unfriendly and unhelpful. I didn't experience that. Perhaps their attitude is different if you speak and understand French.

Last time I was in Paris was 1958 and the French, indeed, were pointedly unfriendly. Of course DeGaulle had just come into power along with French chauvinism and they also were still feeling defensive about the highly mixed French performance in WWII.

In more recent years, I discovered not to expect "friendly" in the Netherlands or Norway by looking and speaking German. (Not the best cover choice, it wasn't.)

 

[oggbashan]

...

In more recent years, I discovered not to expect "friendly" in the Netherlands or Norway by looking and speaking German. (Not the best cover choice, it wasn't.)

I had difficulty in early 1960s Yugoslavia. Although I knew a few words of Serbo-Croat, the most common second language of the locals was German - but they hated speaking it.

But when we went to what was then a remote island, we were the first Brits since WW2. The island Mayor had fought alongside Australian troops in North Africa and he was proud of his English. I had just returned from Australia and I was the only one of our group who could understand his Serbo-Croat accented Strine.

He was so pleased that I understood him and that I had demonstrated to the locals that he could speak 'English' that he awarded me the 'freedom' of the island. I never knew what exactly what that meant until I got back to the UK. Apart from free wine and beer, which all of us were given anyway, apparently I had the choice of a night with any of the married women.

I didn't use my 'freedom'.

 

[danger2no]

I was expecting NYC to be unfriendly, but the people were great to me. I was expecting someone to be a stereotypical New Yorker to me, but I was overwhelmed with how nice they were to an obvious tourist. I can't wait to go back to New York. Whenever I visit Washington DC, I am always struck by how helpful and friendly everyone is to me--even the clerks and sales people are friendly and helpful.

 

[ishtat]

Last time I was in Paris was 1958 and the French, indeed, were pointedly unfriendly. Of course DeGaulle had just come into power along with French chauvinism and they also were still feeling defensive about the highly mixed French performance in WWII.

A few years back I visited the "D Day" museum at Arromanches in Normandy. The French guide excitedly explained how Generals de Gaulle and Le Clerc had led the charge when an English voice interrupted in exquisitely accurate and horribly accented French, to ask, "Why were there more Norwegians and Polish patriots in the initial landings than Frenchmen?"

In the vast silence which followed, I realized once more why the French detest the English so much.

 

[johneb87]

Most of the cities on the list seem to be in the "no duh' category. I mean, who wants to go on "vacation" to Detroit in this day? Seattle on the other hand.....

*This posting was not paid for or sponsored by the Seattle tourism board.*

 

[RoyceConnors]

Most of the cities on the list seem to be in the "no duh' category. I mean, who wants to go on "vacation" to Detroit in this day? Seattle on the other hand.....

*This posting was not paid for or sponsored by the Seattle tourism board.*

Hard to put down a place of legal enjoyments.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

A few years back I visited the "D Day" museum at Arromanches in Normandy. The French guide excitedly explained how Generals de Gaulle and Le Clerc had led the charge when an English voice interrupted in exquisitely accurate and horribly accented French, to ask, "Why were there more Norwegians and Polish patriots in the initial landings than Frenchmen?"

In the vast silence which followed, I realized once more why the French detest the English so much.

I was in Normandy two years ago and there was a gentleman in our group who had actually landed at Normandy. The French brought their grandchildren up to shake his hand so that they could tell their grandchildren they had shaken the hand of genuine hero. Parisians may be unfriendly but the Normans definitely love Americans, even today.

 

[ishtat]

I was in Normandy two years ago and there was a gentleman in our group who had actually landed at Normandy. The French brought their grandchildren up to shake his hand so that they could tell their grandchildren they had shaken the hand of genuine hero. Parisians may be unfriendly but the Normans definitely love Americans, even today.

I can believe that. The French have always responded well to Australian visitors too on the same basis. Few Australians served in Europe in WWII but 50,000 were killed there in WWI. But the Brits and the French? Too much history.

All countries both remember and forget in various degrees The British barely remember the 55,000 Indian troops who were killed in Europe in WWI. Similarly the North African Arabs who fought for the French get some, though hardly the recognition they deserve. And absolutely no-one remembers the French who served in the German Army post 1940.

In 1945 the victorious Red Army had a vastly disproportionate number of Moslem troops from their (then) Central Asian SSR's. 500,000 died in the assault on Berlin alone in 1945.

 

[Bramblethorn]

All countries both remember and forget in various degrees The British barely remember the 55,000 Indian troops who were killed in Europe in WWI. Similarly the North African Arabs who fought for the French get some, though hardly the recognition they deserve. And absolutely no-one remembers the French who served in the German Army post 1940.

I remember an American telling me how the USA fought alone in Vietnam. I believe I *facepalm*ed.

 

[TxRad]

I remember an American telling me how the USA fought alone in Vietnam. I believe I *facepalm*ed.

He obviously wasn't there.

I spent a lot of my time with Turks and Korean Marines.

 

[robertreams]

How unfriendly?

The U.S. takes more than twice as many refugees as all countries from the rest of the industrialized world combined.


But I do admit, I think rudeness is increasing.

if they have money! what about the Palestinians who have been refugees since 1940? How many of them have we taken in.
I think the unfriendliness of the US depends in some degree where you go. In the middle of nowhere in North Central Wisconsin, my wife and i were without means of travel. A young female bartender in one of those UP-North bars, handed us the keys to hr car. so we could drive back to reclaim our car.

In New York I asked someone for directions and they said "Move it Bub, you're in the way!"

In rural Oregon, everyone is unfriendly, no one says hello, you can live there for fifteen years and still be an outsider, and one is afraid one might be shot for disagreeing.


All in all, when I visited Europe, I was treated much more friendly than when I travel across America. Americans have this stupid "We're the best country" "Why doesn't everyone speak English" attitude that makes me sick.

 

[oggbashan]

I can believe that. The French have always responded well to Australian visitors too on the same basis. Few Australians served in Europe in WWII but 50,000 were killed there in WWI. But the Brits and the French? Too much history.

All countries both remember and forget in various degrees The British barely remember the 55,000 Indian troops who were killed in Europe in WWI. Similarly the North African Arabs who fought for the French get some, though hardly the recognition they deserve. And absolutely no-one remembers the French who served in the German Army post 1940.

In 1945 the victorious Red Army had a vastly disproportionate number of Moslem troops from their (then) Central Asian SSR's. 500,000 died in the assault on Berlin alone in 1945.

Ouch! Few Australians in Europe in WW2? They were fighting in the Pacific and especially in New Guinea. They won't forget the surrender of Singapore with thousands of Australian troops sent there instead of to North Africa. But many Australians (and South Africans) were D-Day Dodgers in Italy after fighting hard in North Africa, along with Indian divisions.

The French in Normandy and along the coast Northwards from Normandy remember the Canadians with affection. At least some of them could speak a strange form of French.

The British Cemetery in Bayeux is maintained by the French and French schoolchildren visit it frequently.

Yet we do have a selective memory about those who fought alongside us in various wars.

But for the Prussians, Wellington would have lost Waterloo. Previous battles against Napoleon's Empire in Spain would have been impossible but for the help from the Portuguese and Spanish.

The American War of Independence would have been lost by the Americans except for the help from Royalist France.

The evacuation of Dunkirk in 1940 was only possible by rearguard actions including many French troops.

In World War 1, Japan was an ally. So was Italy. In World War 2, Japan was an enemy; Italy was an enemy, then surrendered, and became an ally.

Apart from Indian troops in WW1, many African troops fought on the Western Front - and fought in Africa against German Colonies.

I could go on and on - but you are right. We have a selective memory.

 

[sr71plt]

In rural Oregon, everyone is unfriendly, no one says hello,

I think they'd hello you if they could see you through the fog coming in off the ocean.

 

[sr71plt]

Ouch! Few Australians in Europe in WW2?

Ouch, indeed. It's surprising how many still think that WWII was a European war.

 

[driphoney]

if they have money! what about the Palestinians who have been refugees since 1940? How many of them have we taken in.

Absolutely not true. Perhaps you confuse general immigration status with refugee/asylee status? Refugee numbers into the US, these days, are pretty much dictated by the OHCHR. If you look at the numbers and the regions refugees are coming from currently, you would be hard-pressed to prove wealth as a major motivator for acceptance.

The Palestinian question is complicated, and I don’t know you, but I’m pretty sure most have that understanding. The Arab League itself denies citizenship to refugees in order to maintain Palestinian right of return, so .... <shrug> Are Palestinians pushing for special refugee status with OHCHR? Or are they pushing for in-country recognition and rights? They might be, I don’t know, but sure as hell, their situation has been a major bit of political maneuvering in the UN since day one.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/countries/menaregion/pages/psindex.aspx

 

[sr71plt]

Well, plus the fact that most of the Palestinians don't want to come to the states. They want to be in Palestine--where, as a group, they were before the Jews arrived there.

Hell, back in the early 80s I couldn't even get them to agree to be evacuated from one their camps even when told the Israelis were about to wipe them out (which they proceeded to do).

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It's sad but Americans are developing a "To Hell with the lot of them" attitude towards the Middle East. It's not hard to understand why. The various Semitic tribes have been merrily killing each other for the last 4,000 years and outside of Washington, the country is beginning to believe that they have no intention of stopping. Peace would require compromise on both parts and neither side acts interested. Do Palestinians come to America? They sure as Hell do! One of my colleagues married one and my wife works with two more, one Christian one Moslem. So I suspect that robertstreams needs to do more research before making such broad brush statements.

 

[sr71plt]

It's sad but Americans are developing a "To Hell with the lot of them" attitude towards the Middle East. It's not hard to understand why.

Yes and yes.

I've worked (in the Middle East) with a whole passel of Palestinians, and, yes, a lot of them have retired to the States (because it was part of the deal in them working for the U.S. government). They haven't done it because they want to leave Palestine. They've usually done it for their family's physical safety.

 

[ishtat]

So I suspect that robertstreams needs to do more research before making such broad brush statements.

Very true VM. I just re-read the short Wiki article on the 20% of Israel's citizens who are Arabs - not Jews. It's short, far from comprehensive, but gives an initial insight into just how horrendously complex the issues are within Israel, let alone across the borders.

These people have some very real problems but the solutions offered have all sorts of baggage attached to them. It ain't easy.

 

[sr71plt]

Nearly all of the Palestinians I've known are Christians. I'm sure more of them are Arabs, but "Palestinian" and "Arab" are not synonyms.

 

[ishtat]

Nearly all of the Palestinians I've known are Christians. I'm sure more of them are Arabs, but "Palestinian" and "Arab" are not synonyms.

And then there are the Druse and the Bedouin in the Negev - it seems that every layer peeled back reveals at least two more.

I have some friends who are Circassian Christians whose family happened to stay in Israel in 1948 so they took the option of Israeli (Arab) citizenship. They have sometimes had a rough deal being classified as Israeli Arabs but take the pragmatic view that it's much better than being a Palestinian Arab in Gaza.

Their pet hate is the fundamentalist extreme conservative Jews, who they suggest, the more liberal Jewish Israelis despise even more than they do!

 

[sr71plt]

And then there are the Druse and the Bedouin in the Negev - it seems that every layer peeled back reveals at least two more.

I have some friends who are Circassian Christians whose family happened to stay in Israel in 1948 so they took the option of Israeli (Arab) citizenship. They have sometimes had a rough deal being classified as Israeli Arabs but take the pragmatic view that it's much better than being a Palestinian Arab in Gaza.

Their pet hate is the fundamentalist extreme conservative Jews, who they suggest, the more liberal Jewish Israelis despise even more than they do!

A third of the Lebanese population is Christian too (speaking of Druse).

And I was off the beam with the Arab-Palestinian thing. It should have been that Muslim and Palestinian weren't synonyms, but, as no one seemed to be claiming that they were, I was just being off the beam.

 

[sr71plt]

At least one UK family thinks New Yorkers are friendly and helpful enough:

http://my.earthlink.net/article/ent?guid=20130822/94fba089-e990-4aa2-96dc-780e74615e60

 

[R. Richard]

I remember an American telling me how the USA fought alone in Vietnam. I believe I *facepalm*ed.

I wasn't there. However, I have talked with guys who were there. There were Koreans deployed in Vietnam. If a US convoy was fired on, they had orders to speed up and get past the area where they were fired upon. The Koreans would stop their convoy and hunt down whoever fired upon them. The Koreans took no prisoners. Strange to tell, the North Vietnamese wouldn't fire upon a Korean convoy.