Urgent Health Warning

[REDWAVE]

You've probably heard that Bush has ordered the forced inoculation of all members of the military, and is pushing the "voluntary" inoculation of others, such as health care workers, with smallpox vaccine. This measure is supposedly a precaution against a possible "bioterrorist" attack. But is it a sensible precaution, or just another sinister plot? You decide for yourself.

This vaccine is known to be dangerous, and will inevitably cause the DEATH of at least some of those who take it. I feel sorry for our young men and women in uniform, some of whom will die as a result of this forced inoculation. Even more outrageous is the fact that the recently passed Homeland Security Act exempts doctors and vaccine manufacturers from liability for injuries suffered by people who take the vaccine. If you get sick from it, you will have no effective legal recourse. If you die from it, your loved ones will have no recourse. They will merely get to grieve for you.

If you don't believe me, here's a news article on the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/14/health/14LIAB.html?8bhp

Personally, I would never voluntarily take this vaccine. If they tried to force it on me, they would have to grab me, tie or hold me down, and inject me forcibly while I kicked and screamed. Ask yourself, Do you trust Bush? Do you trust the government? If so, line up and get your shots, suckers.

Here's a webpage with some good information about how dangerous (and unnecessary) this vaccine is:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/smallpox-anthrax-vaccines/WHY-SMALLPOX-VACCINE-ARE-UNSAFE.htm

And who stands to gain from this massive forced inoculation? Why, the vaccine manufacturer, of course, which will make untold millions of dollars!

This warning has been presented as a public service by the REDWAVE Foundation. No need to thank me.

 

[Starblayde]

I heard a reliable (i.e one REDWAVE wouldn't believe) quote that if everyone who needed the innoculation against smallpox had the injection (about 75% of the US population) aound 300 people would die.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[Starfish]

It is a horrible loss, but sadly, the losses from an unprotected attack would wreak havoc on our defense structure, and then who is going to protect the nation? Untrained civilians? Well, yeah, if we had to, but who is to say that we will be here if they manage to get a small pox outbreak to occur here.

I don't think that it is a good thing, but I understand the fear motivating the decision. The act preventing recourse is bullshit, and it sucks that those families will get fucked.


Did I just reply to a redwave thread in a serious manner?

 

[HeavyStick]

More people will die from crossing the street than the small pox vaccine. We can prevent those deaths by making pedestrian overpasses/underpasses at every corner.

No one is forced to take that shot. They can refuse and if the trend follows that did with the Anthranx shots, some will get discharged without severe penalty.

At least GW is taking the shot. Clinton never took his Anthranx shots.

 

[SINthysist]

I've had it...

Bush is willing to take it.

Let's hope we didn't need it!

 

[Silverlily]

Did I just reply to a redwave thread in a serious manner?

You did. Here, have some fruitcake, you'll feel better in no time.



Every vaccination carries a risk and like Fishie-girl said, the damage done by an attack on the unprotected is greater than the risk.

 

[Starfish]

If i eat fruitcake, I might as well fuck off and die.

 

[HeavyStick]

If i eat fruitcake, I might as well fuck off and die.

You don't have to eat fruitcake....

 

[SINthysist]

Make sure that when you're talking about REDWAVE that you type FRUITCAKE in caps...

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Whenever a live attenuated virus vaccine is used there is potential for some people to contract active infections, but because the virus is weakened, this only happens in those who have undiagnosed severe immune disorders such as various forms of inherited diseases of immunity and those with advanced HIV.

Typically, previously healthy adults have absolutely nothing to fear from live virus innoculations. As the members of the US military comprise the most physically able-bodied subpopulation in the country, I'd expect the negative consequences of mass vaccination to be pretty minor.

Where the danger would come in would be particularly in vaccinating children. Young children with previously undiagnosed immune disorders could very well die of active smallpox infections. Therefore, the decision to vaccinate children should be taken very seriously.

For the vast majority of us who are able-bodied adults, though, the smallpox vaccine really is innocuous. After all, it was given to virtually every person alive on earth in the middle part of last century with the effect of eliminating the small pox virus from the natural world.

The vaccine is extremely effective. The potential danger is real to selected individuals, but to most of us, the danger is infintessimal.

As I frequently work in the ER of a big county hospital in a major American city that could be the site of a smallpox attack, I'll definitely be vaccinated if and when the vaccine is offered to me.

 

[REDWAVE]

I'm trying to save lives.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Gee,

I remember the bad old days when everybody got em. It leaves a little round scar on your shoulder. I have a little round scar on my shoulder.

Some people may die from it. Some people also die from the DPT vaccine. Some people also die from automobile accidents, etc.

Ya think that part of the reason the military is getting the shots first may be that their chance of exposure could just possibly be higher than that of the population in general?

Of course, George hasn't already announced that he is taking the same shot that will be administered to the soldiers in the military.

Naturally everything is motivated by profits. There are no other concerns.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

I'm trying to save lives.

Sure.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I don't think you're trying to save lives. I think you're trying to poo-poo the US government, but I'll humor you, Red.

When epidemiologists ponder questions like this they have to consider several things:

1. What's the danger posed by the disease?

In the case of smallpox, the answer is a highly communicable airborne disease with around a 30% mortality. It's a disease that truly qualifies as a plague in the historical sense, taking millions of lives in outbreaks over the years.

Since the disease hasn't infected a human being the world in 25 years and no one in the Western hemisphere in 30, we've forgotten what we're dealing with. The potential death caused by this disease is many orders of magnitude greater than that of the vaccine.

Here's a photo of an infected woman: http://infectioncontrol.ucsfmedical...mallpox_Photos/7enlarged_smallpox_photos.html

2. What's the risk of contracting the disease?
Up until recently, this risk was essentially zero since the disease had been eradicated from existence except for the presence of 2 stockpiles (at the CDC in Atlanta and in a Russian lab). That's why they ended the policy of vaccinating people - the risk posed by the vaccine became greater than that of the disease itself.

There's good reason to believe that Soviet scientists sold many potential bioweapons to anyone willing to pay around the time of the breakup of the USSR. There is almost certainly smallpox in the hands of rogue states and/or terrorist groups. If there are people willing to fly jets into skyscrapers, I have to believe that such people would have no moral compunction about reviving a plague and unleashing it upon their enemies.

3. what's the danger of the vaccine?
I addressed this question in my last post. Bottom line - danger to healthy adults - very small. Danger to kids - small, but significant.

4. What's the cost of the vaccine?
I don't know the answer to this question, but any large-scale vaccination program will be hugely expensive. If we judge the risk to be great enough, though, money won't be an objection.

 

[Starfish]

Let me practice...


FRUITCaKE.
No! Again...

FRooTCAKE.
No! Way off.. Again...


FRUITCAKE.

Better?

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

The funny thing is Redwave first quotes a leftist site the nytimes and then he quotes a right wing extremeist site power hour{i do like these guys when you can weed throw thier chaff, they do have a lot of good info}

Makes you wonder wether redwave is the leftist he claims to be or right winger extremeist so far right he is shaking hands with the left.

he will likely threaten me with death yet again, so I don't know why i bother, he was civilized for a while though it was probably just a bait me ruse

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

I think a more urgent warning would have been one instructing people not to eat fruitcake.

 

[HeavyStick]

The funny thing is Redwave first quotes a leftist site the nytimes and then he quotes a right wing extremeist site power hour{i do like these guys when you can weed throw thier chaff, they do have a lot of good info}

Makes you wonder wether redwave is the leftist he claims to be or right winger extremeist so far right he is shaking hands with the left.

he will likely threaten me with death yet again, so I don't know why i bother, he was civilized for a while though it was probably just a bait me ruse

That's been Red's way since day one. He'll throw up a good and/or controversial topic and watch everyone else debate. He'll troll the intelligent lefties and reinforce their point. But when things are going towards the right, he lashes out.

I really tried to debate without flaming the little freak. But he lashed at me expecting me to cave in.

Well after about 2-3 weeks of taking his abuse and him avoiding legitimate questions. I dug into him and he put me on ignore. It's kinda nice really.

 

[Guest]

I feel sorry for our young men and women in uniform, some of whom will die as a result of this forced inoculation.

If you don't believe me, here's a news article on the subject:


Personally, I would never voluntarily take this vaccine. If they tried to force it on me, they would have to grab me, tie or hold me down, and inject me forcibly while I kicked and screamed. Ask yourself, Do you trust Bush? Do you trust the government? If so, line up and get your shots, suckers.

Feel sorry? Weren't you the same person that claimed our young military peronnel were "trained assassins"?


And no shit Sherlock, why wouldn't we believe you?


Don't worry, your one person that will never be required to take this vaccine. That leaves more of the vaccine available for someone of worth.


My god, what a worthless little piece of shit you are.

 

[Ishmael]

Yep, this is right up there with "fucking causes preganncies."

For the better part of 70 years all children in the US under went innoculation for small pox. I've been inoculated three times already.

So, now it's a crisis of such unprecedented proportion that you felt compelled to post this tripe.

Better start hiding in your closet. They really may be out to get you.

Ishmael

 

[REDWAVE]

Get a grip, Todd

I never threatened you with death. I wrote a humorous fantasy, that's all.

Anyway, I've done my duty. If I save just one life with this, it will have been more than worth doing.

 

[Problem Child]

And if no innoculation were offered/required, you would be screaming bloody murder that it was a Bush administration plot to leave the nation unprotected so that when attacked the casualty counts would soar. Then (you would say) of course Bush would use the suffering of the American people to call for more and more attacks on terrorists around the world, whipping the country into a xenophobic frenzy for Arab blood.

And you could write another crappy poem.

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: Get a grip, Todd

I never threatened you with death. I wrote a humorous fantasy, that's all.

Anyway, I've done my duty. If I save just one life with this, it will have been more than worth doing.

Brushing your teeth with a shotgun would be doing your duty to humanity.

But hey that's just a fantasy.