Unspoken rules on this website...

[lovecraft68]

There's a loud core group of readers within BDSM who have taken it upon themselves to define what BDSM is, and attempt to shame out anyone who doesn't follow their rules. Some of the categories here are very tribal, and BDSM is one of them.

Femdom is dicey on Lit, so if that's your preferred genre, you're going to have to expect a lot of slings and arrows from the overly sensitive. There's absolutely an audience for it, but you have to ignore the peanut gallery screeching and jumping up and down in front of them.

Tags should be used as a tool for people to search. While they are displayed at the top of the front page now, they're behind a tab, and a lot of people haven't noticed that they're available up front. That gives tags limited utility as a secondary method of categorization or method of warning away sensitive readers. The primary thing readers use them for is finding stories more than a week old. Tailor your tags to highlight what parts of the story you believe readers would be interested in.

If Laurel is allowing them to go into BDSM, it means she doesn't believe it crosses the bar as Non-con. That very likely means the readers in non-con would be unimpressed with what people are being offended by in BDSM.

If your submissiont rape obsesses are pulling in numbers you're happy with where they are, ignore the people sneering down their noses at you.

Two factions are 'defining' BDSM

The first is gate keeping the fact non consent does not have a place in BDSM so when the people writing rape stories go there to avoid the stigma of the NC category, or to be sneaky figuring they can hide it from screening better there, they take exception. Its why I won't go near that category anymore.

Because what the uneducated even in this forum tries to push is there are no rules in BDSM, and there are three, two fluid, one concrete.

Safe, sane, and consensual are the rules

Now safe and sane? That's going to depend on the person and their limits and definitions of the word and in a real D/S relationship those boundaries are discussed and worked out, but in the end my sane may not be yours.

Consent is solid, Now there are games within it, rape play, with the operative word being play and CNC, consensual non consent, which is the same as RP and note what he first word is there?

For all those saying consent isn't needed, then go find someone, tie them down and do things to them they are telling you not to then when the cops come to your door, tell them consent isn't needed during sex. Good luck.

The only people who push against this have no idea what the lifestyle really is. But then we have the unwritten rule here that the people who push misinformation are the ones to be protected, calling it out seems to be the problem.

The other faction are the incels and the "bitch better get hers" crowd that has been slowly pushing femdom out of BDSM where it naturally belongs (Dominatrix, duh) and now the smart category to place Femdom is fetish where there's men who don't hate women and don't suffer from insecurty and can enjoy that type of story.

So, if there's redefining its from the same element that has turned LW into a quagmire of BTB stories where its torture for titillation over erotica. But again, let's not talk about the issue, let's talk about the people who see the issue.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Two factions are 'defining' BDSM

The first is gate keeping the fact non consent does not have a place in BDSM so when the people writing rape stories go there to avoid the stigma of the NC category, or to be sneaky figuring they can hide it from screening better there, they take exception. Its why I won't go near that category anymore.

Because what the uneducated even in this forum tries to push is there are no rules in BDSM, and there are three, two fluid, one concrete.

Safe, sane, and consensual are the rules

Now safe and sane? That's going to depend on the person and their limits and definitions of the word and in a real D/S relationship those boundaries are discussed and worked out, but in the end my sane may not be yours.

Consent is solid, Now there are games within it, rape play, with the operative word being play and CNC, consensual non consent, which is the same as RP and note what he first word is there?

For all those saying consent isn't needed, then go find someone, tie them down and do things to them they are telling you not to then when the cops come to your door, tell them consent isn't needed during sex. Good luck.

The only people who push against this have no idea what the lifestyle really is. But then we have the unwritten rule here that the people who push misinformation are the ones to be protected, calling it out seems to be the problem.

The other faction are the incels and the "bitch better get hers" crowd that has been slowly pushing femdom out of BDSM where it naturally belongs (Dominatrix, duh) and now the smart category to place Femdom is fetish where there's men who don't hate women and don't suffer from insecurty and can enjoy that type of story.

So, if there's redefining its from the same element that has turned LW into a quagmire of BTB stories where its torture for titillation over erotica. But again, let's not talk about the issue, let's talk about the people who see the issue.

I definetely think there is a large contingent of "bitch better get hers" hooligans that are spreading from LW all over Lit. I keep running into them. My most recent story is a femdom short novel in NC/R that had them coming out of the woodwork in droves. More than half my comments are guys plotting revenge for the MMC on the FMC, in which she suffers rape, disablement, and murder in all sorts of ways. It makes me wonder, if they hate femdom so much, why read it? And if they want to get even, can't they come up with something else other than caveman style domestic violence?

 

[lovecraft68]

I definetely think there is a large contingent of "bitch better get hers" hooligans that are spreading from LW all over Lit. I keep running into them. My most recent story is a femdom short novel in NC/R that had them coming out of the woodwork in droves. More than half my comments are guys plotting revenge for the MMC on the FMC, in which she suffers rape, disablement, and murder in all sorts of ways. It makes me wonder, if they hate femdom so much, why read it? And if they want to get even, can't they come up with something else other than caveman style domestic violence?

They do it because they're trying to drive people off and make this place their little incel headquarters. There's no reason why they shouldn't think they can, the site now screens comments and let's all this stuff through.

They are showing up everywhere. I have a first time romance that's been around for years and done very well, gist is the guy was a virgin, and a girl he hangs out with who has been crushing on him offers to be his first, but its mentioned she has had sex with a prior boyfriend. The last few months I'm getting comments now like "So he settled for sloppy seconds from some whore who couldn't wait for her true love"

This is what you get when you're a free platform that allows anon. Did you know hot wife and cuck stories sell very well in the paid market, its only on a site like this it gets trashed because they can do it for free and not even have to create a username.

 

[madelinemasoch]

They do it because they're trying to drive people off and make this place their little incel headquarters. There's no reason why they shouldn't think they can, the site now screens comments and let's all this stuff through.

They are showing up everywhere. I have a first time romance that's been around for years and done very well, gist is the guy was a virgin, and a girl he hangs out with who has been crushing on him offers to be his first, but its mentioned she has had sex with a prior boyfriend. The last few months I'm getting comments now like "So he settled for sloppy seconds from some whore who couldn't wait for her true love"

This is what you get when you're a free platform that allows anon. Did you know hot wife and cuck stories sell very well in the paid market, its only on a site like this it gets trashed because they can do it for free and not even have to create a username.

You're a hundred percent correct. I complained about this in a prior thread about a month ago, and all I got in response was unwanted feedback on my story content... and people who obviously hadn't read the hate comments I've received saying they were actually just justified criticisms. They aren't. Lol.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I definetely think there is a large contingent of "bitch better get hers" hooligans that are spreading from LW all over Lit. I keep running into them. My most recent story is a femdom short novel in NC/R that had them coming out of the woodwork in droves. More than half my comments are guys plotting revenge for the MMC on the FMC, in which she suffers rape, disablement, and murder in all sorts of ways. It makes me wonder, if they hate femdom so much, why read it? And if they want to get even, can't they come up with something else other than caveman style domestic violence?

My chapters make this kind of person violently angry, and none of them are categorized into LW. I've only ever posted to BDSM and Group Sex for one chapter of CC.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're a hundred percent correct. I complained about this in a prior thread about a month ago, and all I got in response was unwanted feedback on my story content... and people who obviously hadn't read the hate comments I've received saying they were actually just justified criticisms. They aren't. Lol.

People get upset when the mirror is held up to them.

 

[madelinemasoch]

People get upset when the mirror is held up to them.

And isn't this one of the very points of art in the first place? We're here to portray reality through fiction.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've not published to BDSM. My understanding is that there are some readers there who want to limit the scope of the category and how stories there are written. It's a group of readers, not a site rule. I've chosen to avoid the category. Most things that might go to BDSM also fit in other categories.

"CNC" isn't a category. I'm not sure how the readers in NonCon react to CNC stories. Also (I guess you can call this an unwritten site rule) NonCon stories usually appear at the bottom of the New list. I think that tends to minimize the views. That's the flip side of contest entries going to the top of the list, which tends to maximize the views.


I think the tags commonly are used to list the different sex acts performed in the story. I'm not sure about the "subcategory" idea. Does this come from the BDSM crowd as well?

I publish regularly to BDSM, the reaction has been no better or no worse than any other category overall. Maybe slightly worse as I tend to do explicitly consensual BDSM (apart from Hood & Hole, which is a bit of a fake out). I’ve also written Femdom on guy BDSM and lesbian BDSM. No particular difference in reception as far as I can tell.

Em

—

UPDATE: At least my flavor of BDSM (IRL and writing) is nothing to do with CNC. The person on the receiving end (I won’t say sub as I get into trouble every time) is 100% in control and can say stop any time. It is totally consensual and totally trust-based. I know many people don’t do BDSM this way, but I wouldn’t do it any other way.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I definetely think there is a large contingent of "bitch better get hers" hooligans that are spreading from LW all over Lit. I keep running into them. My most recent story is a femdom short novel in NC/R that had them coming out of the woodwork in droves. More than half my comments are guys plotting revenge for the MMC on the FMC, in which she suffers rape, disablement, and murder in all sorts of ways. It makes me wonder, if they hate femdom so much, why read it? And if they want to get even, can't they come up with something else other than caveman style domestic violence?

Why do they hate femdom and yet read it? We mentioned the term "excited disgust" (from the novel The Day of the Locust). They pretend to be offended by it, but they are secretly (or not so secretly) fascinated with it too. It's a common human behavior.

Or to use another trope: it's like Claude Rains in Casablanca saying, "I'm shocked, shocked to find femdom going on here." (His shock is obviously faked.)

 

[alohadave]

Why do they hate femdom and yet read it? We mentioned the term "excited disgust" (from the novel The Day of the Locust). They pretend to be offended by it, but they are secretly (or not so secretly) fascinated with it too. It's a common human behavior.

Or to use another trope: it's like Claude Rains in Casablanca saying, "I'm shocked, shocked to find femdom going on here." (His shock is obviously faked.)

It applies to so many things in life.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Why do they hate femdom and yet read it? We mentioned the term "excited disgust" (from the novel The Day of the Locust). They pretend to be offended by it, but they are secretly (or not so secretly) fascinated with it too. It's a common human behavior.

Or to use another trope: it's like Claude Rains in Casablanca saying, "I'm shocked, shocked to find femdom going on here." (His shock is obviously faked.)

(NSFW source: https://www.oglaf.com/annals/)

 

[gunhilltrain]

It applies to so many things in life.

The judges rule that this in on topic for the thread.

1. Regarding the Howard Stern analogy: even in this so-called "enlightened" age, people have a hard time admitting what they are truly feeling, even to themselves - maybe especially to themselves. Maybe they'd like to be be as Stern is: outspoken, irreverent, "edgy," or whatever, and yet that goes against what they were taught to be when growing up or other social conventions. They seem to miss that Stern himself is at partially doing an "act," exaggerating certain parts of his personality to create a successful radio show. I could relate that to the LW crowd, but maybe later.

2. For Captain Renault, the social pressure is right in front of him: the Nazi officer is telling him to close the club. As is revealed later, Renault actually dislikes being an official of Vichy France, a creation of the Nazi occupation, but at that moment he does as told and puts on a convincing "show" while doing it. There is a funny bit where a guy gives Renault his own gambling winnings, and he quickly thanks the man and then gets back to his outraged act.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've not published to BDSM. My understanding is that there are some readers there who want to limit the scope of the category and how stories there are written. It's a group of readers, not a site rule. I've chosen to avoid the category. Most things that might go to BDSM also fit in other categories.

I wrote a light BDSM story (consensual power exchange) in 2016 that did very well. It's still my highest-rated story, and it's received many views. Recently, though, I received a comment along the lines of what you are referring to. It was this:

As "sex with a stranger", it works, but as BDSM, nope. There needs to be discussions before anything happens: Limits, triggers, safeword, contraception and STI status etc.

I find this way of thinking about erotic stories, of whatever category, to be completely absurd. BDSM should, like every category, be a big tent. I find the idea that a BDSM story must carefully conform to what real-life BDSM aficionados practice to be ridiculous. Requiring my characters to do what this reader seems to have expected them to do would have been completely unrealistic and impossible given their backgrounds.

But I think this way of thinking is increasing. I recall Literotica being more free-wheeling (and in some ways, more fun) in the past. It's much more judgmental now, to a degree I find puritanical and philistine, and completely at odds with the artistic spirit.

 

[KeithD]

I wrote a light BDSM story (consensual power exchange) in 2016 that did very well. It's still my highest-rated story, and it's received many views. Recently, though, I received a comment along the lines of what you are referring to. It was this:


I find this way of thinking about erotic stories, of whatever category, to be completely absurd. BDSM should, like every category, be a big tent. I find the idea that a BDSM story must carefully conform to what real-life BDSM aficionados practice to be ridiculous. Requiring my characters to do what this reader seems to have expected them to do would have been completely unrealistic and impossible given their backgrounds.

But I think this way of thinking is increasing. I recall Literotica being more free-wheeling (and in some ways, more fun) in the past. It's much more judgmental now, to a degree I find puritanical and philistine, and completely at odds with the artistic spirit.

Right. Whether something belongs in the BDSM category is based on what the act is (e.g., bondage sex or spanking/whipping), not on any club's rules on how it should be done. It doesn't have to be done "right" by any reader's view of what is "right."

 

[Bamagan]

I wrote a light BDSM story (consensual power exchange) in 2016 that did very well. It's still my highest-rated story, and it's received many views. Recently, though, I received a comment along the lines of what you are referring to. It was this:


I find this way of thinking about erotic stories, of whatever category, to be completely absurd. BDSM should, like every category, be a big tent. I find the idea that a BDSM story must carefully conform to what real-life BDSM aficionados practice to be ridiculous. Requiring my characters to do what this reader seems to have expected them to do would have been completely unrealistic and impossible given their backgrounds.

But I think this way of thinking is increasing. I recall Literotica being more free-wheeling (and in some ways, more fun) in the past. It's much more judgmental now, to a degree I find puritanical and philistine, and completely at odds with the artistic spirit.

Yeah, that person sounds like they should maybe be exploring the "How-To" Category. I could understand someone complaining (politely) if a BDSM story was more about NC or torture than dom/sub reindeer games or whatever, but unless the story explicitly calls out that one or more characters are trying to trick the other(s) into sex trafficking or getting pregnant or catching a disease or something, it seems entirely reasonable to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume the characters filed all the relevant consent-and-safety paperwork off-screen.

 

[onehitwanda]

View attachment 2257412

(NSFW source: https://www.oglaf.com/annals/)

God I love Oglaf so much.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah, that person sounds like they should maybe be exploring the "How-To" Category. I could understand someone complaining (politely) if a BDSM story was more about NC or torture than dom/sub reindeer games or whatever, but unless the story explicitly calls out that one or more characters are trying to trick the other(s) into sex trafficking or getting pregnant or catching a disease or something, it seems entirely reasonable to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume the characters filed all the relevant consent-and-safety paperwork off-screen.

That's not my point at all. My point is that in my story it's unrealistic to expect that there's any paperwork, on screen or off screen. It would make no sense to assume so, because the characters in my story wouldn't know anything about that and would have no grounds for caring about such things. Like MOST people.

If we take this commenter's comment seriously, then it means that the only legitimate BDSM story is one in which all the characters in the story are experienced BDSM practitioners who belong to BDSM organizations and strictly comply with the rules of those organizations. That excludes over 99% of the human population.

This is a ridiculous thing to believe.

BDSM means bondage, dominance-submission, and masochism. Any two people who engage in these things, whether or not they have any experience, are engaged in BDSM. It doesn't matter what rules they comply with, or if they even know that the rules exist.

This argument is like saying that if you had an automotive category, before you could publish a story to the category you would have to make sure that your story spells out how the characters all passed their driver's tests and can show proof of their licenses. It's crazy.

 

[alohadave]

BDSM means bondage, dominance-submission, and masochism.

B&D Bondage and Discipline
S&M Sadism and Masochism

 

[joy_of_cooking]

BDSM means...

I've always heard it was an overlapping abbreviation:

bondage and discipline
domination and submission
sadism and masochism

 

[SimonDoom]

B&D Bondage and Discipline
S&M Sadism and Masochism

Good point. It's all the same thing, though.

 

[Duleigh]

It seems to me that there are a lot of unspoken rules on this website, particularly in regards to tags and categories. I don't do a lot of reading myself, to be honest, I prefer reading philosophy to erotica. But, I would like to know about the unspoken rules or common conventions that have developed on the site in regards to categories and tagging. (For reference, I only write femdom/interracial/cuckoldry stories.)

Most of the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, @madelinemasoch

 

[Bamagan]

That's not my point at all. My point is that in my story it's unrealistic to expect that there's any paperwork, on screen or off screen. It would make no sense to assume so, because the characters in my story wouldn't know anything about that and would have no grounds for caring about such things. Like MOST people.

Perhaps I should have made it more clear that I wasn't referring to literal paperwork, just being tongue-in-cheek in an attempt at humor?

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Any two people who engage in these things, whether or not they have any experience, are engaged in BDSM.

I agree. I have a series where the MCs are tip-toeing their way into BDSM, but entirely alone. No munches, no (disclosed) internet research except the one guy's porn habits, no safewords or explicit discussion of consent (using that word). But they're nice people who don't actually want to hurt each other, so they end up doing something more or less standards-compliant. My commenters seem pretty happy to call that BDSM.

I find the idea that a BDSM story must carefully conform to what real-life BDSM aficionados practice to be ridiculous.

I have more sympathy toward this position. It's a matter of image control. They've associated themselves, sometimes publicly, with a widely misunderstood and often reviled thing. Now they see a bunch of content confirming all the awful misconceptions they've been fighting. Of course some of them feel the need to say something.

The complication, of course, is that their particular hobby is about fantasy, and it's natural in an inherently fantastic medium such as fiction to dispense with all the safeguards people use to do fantasy with real whips and chains. So there's a conflict.

 

[jsmiam]

I can’t help with the other stuff, especially bdsm, everybody seems to have their own set of definitions there. Make your own, and ignore the others.

But with tags, a few things:

- They’re newish. well, not quite new any more, but they never fully got that promotion from afterthought to actual thought

- And they’re perhaps too abstract a thought for many. “It’s new and I don’t understand so I’ll ignore”.

- And the tags search feature is less prominent than traditional “search” search.

- Having only an alphabetized list isn’t ideal. It would be nice if there was a random “spinner”, show random tags, would be nice. And a cluster view. Show the most common associated tags next to each. (Wishing for new features isn’t a productive use of time though)

But… they are there for the taking. Some people use them, some don’t, and some don’t even know what they are.

I suggest use them as best you can, and use all ten. Remember you can make your own too. But don’t expect wonderful great things.

 

[Bamagan]

To some extent, I think the issue is the same one a writer runs into when they try to provide a technical description of, say, flying an airplane, hoping to immerse the reader, and then a pilot comments that some of the details are wrong. Looking too closely at anything runs the risk of revealing flaws, especially to anyone who is (or believes they are) well-informed on the subject.
Another possible issue is that one could write a scene where a character is bound, gagged, and getting whipped. Absent any other context, is this scene BDSM or NC? The acts themselves easily stretch into both categories and perhaps others as well. Generally, it is probably a good practice for readers to assume that if the scene shows up in the BDSM section then it is intended to represent consensual acts, and the opposite if found in NC, whether or not the author spells out the details leading up to the scene in question. And if that's the only scene, easy enough to do. But a story that crosses categories might invite readers to wonder which it is, or to assume based on other context that the scene is being misrepresented. The reader might be wrong, or they might have a valid point.
Of course, none of that precludes the possibility that the complainer is just picky or fussy or a troll. But not every complaint about technical issues is necessarily the work of a troll or a pedant. Sometimes it's just a misconception between reader and author about the perception or presentation of a scene.