Unforeseen Consequences: One result of Obamacare

Boxlicker101

Licker of Boxes
Joined
Apr 5, 2003
Posts
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Here is one result of Obamacare that was probably not foreseen by the Big O and his cheerleaders:

Insider Report from Newsmax.com

2. Obamacare Survey: Firms Will Drop Health Coverage

One in five companies with fewer than 500 employees say they are “likely” or “very likely” to discontinue company-provided healthcare coverage within five years, a survey reveals.

The reason: The main provisions of Obamacare will be implemented in 2014.

And 43 percent of those companies expect employees to pay a greater share of healthcare costs this year, according to the survey by Mercer, a human resources and financial services consulting firm.

Less than 10 percent of larger companies — with 500 to 4,999 workers — say they’ll likely drop coverage in five years, as do about five percent of firms with 5,000 or more employees.

But almost 70 percent of those largest companies, and 60 percent of those with 500 to 4,999 employees, expect workers to pay a larger share of healthcare costs this year.

Nearly 150 million Americans now rely on company-provided healthcare benefits, and the price of those benefits has doubled in the past decade. The average cost to a large company of covering an employee with a family is now $15,745 a year, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

But individuals whose coverage is dropped would pay even more, since they do not receive the same tax breaks as an employer and can’t bargain with insurers the way a company can, although some lower-income workers can qualify for subsidies to buy insurance.

Under the Affordable Care Act, employers with more than 50 workers will eventually have to pay a fine of $2,000 for each employee if they don’t provide coverage, but many could decide simply to pay the fine rather than pay for employees’ coverage, according to The Economist.

So much for President Obama’s promise that “if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep your healthcare plan.”

A 2011 survey by consulting firm McKinsey found that 30 percent of employers would “definitely or probably” drop coverage after 2014.

That prediction was thought to be extreme, but later surveys find that around 10 percent of employers feel that way.

The Mercer survey also found that more than 45 percent of companies with fewer than 500 workers are considering adopting a “defined contribution” healthcare scheme, whereby employees receive a fixed sum to spend on health insurance rather than company-provided coverage.

Defined contribution plans make employers’ costs more predictable and employees more conscious of costs. But the danger, The Economist observes, is that employees will “delay seeking essential treatment for fear of the bill,” which “could leave companies with a sicker, less productive workforce.”

Newsmax is not the most unbiased source around, but they don't usually lie outright, and there's no reason to believe they are this time.
 
Good. When Americans aren't getting health care from their employers, and subject to the whims thereof, there might finally be a move towards a civilised universal national health service in the USA.
 
Since 2009 the ACA has budgeted for firms dropping coverage and sending employees to exchanges. But suddenly far-right fringe news network Newsmax says it's unforseen and you believe them.
 
Good. When Americans aren't getting health care from their employers, and subject to the whims thereof, there might finally be a move towards a civilised universal national health service in the USA.

LMFAO god damn you are retarded....we aren't getting any fucking UHC ever. We could have had it 20 fucking years ago with what we spend. We are not a socialist or capitalist nation....we are a corporate Oligarchy, it could not be any more blatant.

This is just a money funnel...that's fucking it....more 500 dollar aspirins and 10,000 dollar inhalers that cost 1/10,000th the price anywhere else in the fuckin' wold going to a hand full of big ballers.

The piss ant amount of extended coverage that we got for an ASTRONOMICAL fucking price tag? Bare minimum licking needed to gain public approval, if they think they could have charged us more and given us less, they would have.
iguaranteeit.jpg
 
Let's see...Let's look at the decade before the implementation...what was the yearly increase in health care? ....quick Google

Now, what is the increase since? ...another quick Google

Oh wow...the slope of the line is less after the implementation. How can that be? I'm sure this is only true for my insurer. :rolleyes:
 
Let's see...Let's look at the decade before the implementation...what was the yearly increase in health care? ....quick Google

Now, what is the increase since? ...another quick Google

Oh wow...the slope of the line is less after the implementation. How can that be? I'm sure this is only true for my insurer. :rolleyes:

Doesn't change the fact that the US tax payer pays out the mother fucking ass....6 star top of the line rib eye steak price, and get's served alpo dog food.

And people wonder why the top 5% is so freakishly fucking rich.....our gov took it from the people and gave it to them.....and what do the people cry for? "MORE FUNDING!!" :rolleyes:
 
Between the years of 1982 to 2004, the premiums for my company provided major medical plan went from about $100/month to $300/month. As the premium increased, so did the deductible. The coverage declined with each succeeding year.

One thing remained constant. The company contribution stayed the same and was expected to pick up the difference.

And 43 percent of those companies expect employees to pay a greater share of healthcare costs this year, according to the survey by Mercer, a human resources and financial services consulting firm.

Is this news to somebody? It was happening when Obamacare was daycare.
 
Since 2009 the ACA has budgeted for firms dropping coverage and sending employees to exchanges. But suddenly far-right fringe news network Newsmax says it's unforseen and you believe them.

Newsmax die not say it was unforeseen. I did, and I would be willing to bet the people running Obamacare did not foresee how much of a new problem would result. Remember, this is ore US working people paying much more for health insurance that is no better than they received before Obamacare.

I don't cnsider Newmax to be 100% reliable, but I do consider it to be better than the Huffington Postor some other sources that are cited.

For what it's worth, the plan I now have as a supplement to Medicare now costs me more than twice as much as it did before Obamacare.
 
Actually, Obamacare is worse than single-payer. That's a scary thought, because it will make single-payer look very attractive after all.....and I think that was the whole point.

Remember what Barry told Dennis (Kucinich): "We have to start somewhere."

What better way to sell single-payer than to shove one of the worst ideas that the Heritage Foundation ever had down our throats?

This will destroy the private health insurance sector and make single-payer inevitable. If we don't collapse first. If we last as a country, we might have single-payer soon.....and then we really will collapse.
 
What happened to 47% paying nothing? :confused:

Idk did something happen to them?

I have never in my entirety of posting here on lit ever mentioned the people who are too poor to pay any taxes, much less complained about them. All I have ever bitched about was companies using the gov to fuck the citizens. Or the gov just outright being sexist/racist/religious/invasive fucks. I fucking dare you to find a quote where I bitch about the 47%.

Where do you come up with this shit merc? Are you just stupid or too much of a LW extremist to consider anyone who would DARE criticize a piece of shit legislation from the almighty embodiment of perfection you consider the left anything but a right wing nutter eh??
 
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Let's see...Let's look at the decade before the implementation...what was the yearly increase in health care? ....quick Google

Now, what is the increase since? ...another quick Google

Oh wow...the slope of the line is less after the implementation. How can that be? I'm sure this is only true for my insurer. :rolleyes:

So? Are you afraid to post the info you googled or to provide links to it?
 
Newsmax die not say it was unforeseen.
I did, and I would be willing to bet the people running Obamacare did not foresee how much of a new problem would result. [/QUOTE]

Why was it unforeseen to you? It wasn't unforeseen to me or to the media so why is it catching you off-guard? And the CBO is keeping a close eye on it in their quarterly reports.


Remember, this is ore US working people paying much more for health insurance that is no better than they received before Obamacare.

Correct, we're talking about people who aren't directly impacted by Obamacare.


I don't cnsider Newmax to be 100% reliable, but I do consider it to be better than the Huffington Postor some other sources that are cited.

No not even a little bit. Newsmax is absolute dishonest crap. Their reason to exist is solely to push the conservative narrative through lies and half-truths to fool stupid people with.

For what it's worth, the plan I now have as a supplement to Medicare now costs me more than twice as much as it did before Obamacare.

Cool, but that has nothing to do with Obamacare. And I'd suggest that if your premium went up more than 100% in three years then you need to find a new insurer.
 
Actually, Obamacare is worse than single-payer. That's a scary thought, because it will make single-payer look very attractive after all.....and I think that was the whole point.

Remember what Barry told Dennis (Kucinich): "We have to start somewhere."

What better way to sell single-payer than to shove one of the worst ideas that the Heritage Foundation ever had down our throats?

This will destroy the private health insurance sector and make single-payer inevitable. If we don't collapse first. If we last as a country, we might have single-payer soon.....and then we really will collapse.


Did Canada collapse when they went single-payer? Or Australia, Ireland, Germany, or the United Kingdom? Then why would we?

We should have single payer because it would solve the health care crisis and because you don't have a better idea.
 
Thanks for putting that up front; saved me from having to read any further.


It's just another rerun of the same tired manufactured hype on employers dropping health insurance. AJ and Rightfield spent a whole year spamming that same sketchy McKinsey study.

In February 2011, McKinsey surveyed 1,300 US private-sector employers on their expected response to the Affordable Care Act (ACA).[6][75] 30 percent of respondents said they anticipated they would probably or definitely stop offering employer sponsored health coverage after the ACA went into effect in 2014.[76][77] These results, published in June 2011 in the McKinsey e-Quarterly,[6] became "a useful tool for critics of the ACA and a deep annoyance for defenders of the law" according to an article in TIME Magazine.[78] Supporters of healthcare reform argued the survey far surpassed estimates by the Congressional Budget Office and insisted that McKinsey disclose the survey's methodology.[79][80][81][82] Two weeks after publishing the survey results,[78] McKinsey released the contents of the survey including the questionaire and 206-pages of survey data.[83] In its accompanying statement,[84] McKinsey said the survey should not be compared with other estimates that use different methodologies[79][85] and that it was intended to capture the attitude of employers at a certain point in time rather than make a prediction.[86][87] A subsequent article in TIME Magazine called McKinsey’s disclaimer that the survey was not predictive "rather absurd," but said the survey methodology was sound.[78] Some supporters of the Affordable Care Act criticized the survey's methodology, arguing it used slanted questions, cherry-picked information and had uninformed recipients.[79][88]


The company who did the research even came out and said that their report isn't a prediction. But dishonest conservatives and organizations such as Newsmax, well they're spinning it into a prediction anyway, accidentally on-purpose forgetting to state exactly what the KcKinsey research really is.

This thing has been out there for a whole year but Newsmax wants to keep drumming up conservative outrage since they're seeing opposition to the ACA steadily declining as time goes on.
 
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Boxlicker, here's some bits about the survey that Newsmax concealed from you:



* Nearly 50 percent of all survey respondents admitted they were not at all familiar or had only heard about the employer responsibility provisions in the Affordable Care Act – nearly one-fourth were “not at all familiar” with the law.

* 6.7 percent of the respondents couldn’t even answer the most basic question “What medical plans does your company currently offer employees?”

* 58.3 percent of respondents did not know how much their companies spend per employee on medical and prescription drug benefits, raising questions about the on-line survey results.

* Only around half of the survey’s respondents described themselves as a “primary decision maker” on employee benefits. Around 49 percent said that they have some influence in the decision-making process.

* The survey that “educated respondents” left out or failed to explain crucial pieces of information about the Affordable Care Act and other existing laws. For example, health insurance benefits are not taxed. Employers who drop health insurance coverage and provide other benefits to their workers would lose this preferred tax treatment. This important fact was unexplained and other key points went unmentioned.



And hidden in the results are some points that didn’t make it into the report:

* 44.5 percent of small businesses report that they definitely or are likely to join the small employer purchasing part of Health Insurance Exchanges where they will be able to secure health insurance coverage for their workers.
* When asked about their company’s overall view of U.S. healthcare reform, 77.8 percent reported that they were positive, neutral, were not sure, or that it is too early to tell.


And lastly, it was an online survey where the respondents were not a representative sample of businesses. How are you feeling about Newsmax right now? :rolleyes:
 
How are you feeling about the government in charge of health care right now.
Haven't passed a budget in God knows how many years, debt makes us the brokest nation in the history of the world, Social Security and Medicare obligations that we can't meet (and every time someone has a suggestion to meet those obligations the Democrats demagogue the issue) ...
... and yet somehow you fools think the government will take care of everything, that medical care will be just fine.
 
How are you feeling about the government in charge of health care right now.
Haven't passed a budget in God knows how many years, debt makes us the brokest nation in the history of the world, Social Security and Medicare obligations that we can't meet (and every time someone has a suggestion to meet those obligations the Democrats demagogue the issue) ...
... and yet somehow you fools think the government will take care of everything, that medical care will be just fine.

Your idiotic posts presumes that government is somehow "in charge" of health care right now.

Nothing could be further from the truth...we're a long way from single payer.

But "truth"...like "facts"....never matter much to the Ham Murabis of the world.

Derp.
 
But "truth"...like "facts"....never matter much to the Ham Murabis of the world.

He's a newly-found treasure. Just when I thought I had him figured out as a boring, terminally unfunny garden-variety idiot, he goes and posts about fake dinosaur bones.

That's hard to beat!
 
He's a newly-found treasure. Just when I thought I had him figured out as a boring, terminally unfunny garden-variety idiot, he goes and posts about fake dinosaur bones.

That's hard to beat!

Agreed. He's always been at best a garden-variety mouthbreather, but lately he's do "doubled down on the derp" in a pathetic bid for attention.
 
Boxlicker, here's some bits about the survey that Newsmax concealed from you:



* Nearly 50 percent of all survey respondents admitted they were not at all familiar or had only heard about the employer responsibility provisions in the Affordable Care Act – nearly one-fourth were “not at all familiar” with the law.

* 6.7 percent of the respondents couldn’t even answer the most basic question “What medical plans does your company currently offer employees?”

* 58.3 percent of respondents did not know how much their companies spend per employee on medical and prescription drug benefits, raising questions about the on-line survey results.

* Only around half of the survey’s respondents described themselves as a “primary decision maker” on employee benefits. Around 49 percent said that they have some influence in the decision-making process.

* The survey that “educated respondents” left out or failed to explain crucial pieces of information about the Affordable Care Act and other existing laws. For example, health insurance benefits are not taxed. Employers who drop health insurance coverage and provide other benefits to their workers would lose this preferred tax treatment. This important fact was unexplained and other key points went unmentioned.



And hidden in the results are some points that didn’t make it into the report:

* 44.5 percent of small businesses report that they definitely or are likely to join the small employer purchasing part of Health Insurance Exchanges where they will be able to secure health insurance coverage for their workers.
* When asked about their company’s overall view of U.S. healthcare reform, 77.8 percent reported that they were positive, neutral, were not sure, or that it is too early to tell.


And lastly, it was an online survey where the respondents were not a representative sample of businesses. How are you feeling about Newsmax right now? :rolleyes:

That's because most employees really don't understand what kind of health benefits they're getting when they opt for it. Nor does their supervisor or manager tasked with providing such information. It depends on who they go to for that. All most employees get is someone in charge handing them some papers to sign and saying,"Fill this out now or by the end of the day."

Sometimes Human Resources for larger companies aren't even aware regular employees are in need of information to make important decisions about their insurance coverage. It would be easier if there was a mediator for the lower levels of employment. Most people, especially those with dependents, seriously need some time to review the insurance policies in order to make such important decisions.


How are you feeling about the government in charge of health care right now.
Haven't passed a budget in God knows how many years, debt makes us the brokest nation in the history of the world, Social Security and Medicare obligations that we can't meet (and every time someone has a suggestion to meet those obligations the Democrats demagogue the issue) ...
... and yet somehow you fools think the government will take care of everything, that medical care will be just fine.
^^^^^What he said.^^^^^
 
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