Under Age

[lovecraft68]

You are boring. The routine is a tired one, and it has been overused for years. There is also the fact that your sarcasm is simple, and unintelligent. Maybe you should invest some time in say, presonality and diversity, instead of working so hard to be right and/or smarter. I mean seriously, you can't even have someone you think lesser agree with you. That's pretty fucking strange in a place that is already so.
Though you're just going to misinterpret this and cut it up anyway reading into it how you please so I could probably type anything here. Supercalifragalistick exbealidociious. Whatever, lame on, it's your Internet. Now I know why people don't like you. I tried.

I am beginning to really like you.

 

[amofiga]

I hope that I won't be stepping into a minefield in the middle of a story I'm currently doing. In one chapter, I have two mature people describing their first experiences with masturbation as children and their first sexaual experiences with petting and losing their virginity in high school. I don't believe it's offensive and in fact rather humorous in some cases. It does not concern abuse but the normal sexual development of most people through their teens. It's done as "memories" and I would hope that it is not rejected. If anyone thinks this will hit a wall of rejection, please let me know before I continue too much longer. Thanks

 

[lovecraft68]

I hope that I won't be stepping into a minefield in the middle of a story I'm currently doing. In one chapter, I have two mature people describing their first experiences with masturbation as children and their first sexaual experiences with petting and losing their virginity in high school. I don't believe it's offensive and in fact rather humorous in some cases. It does not concern abuse but the normal sexual development of most people through their teens. It's done as "memories" and I would hope that it is not rejected. If anyone thinks this will hit a wall of rejection, please let me know before I continue too much longer. Thanks

If you leave out the ages, and just kind of say something like "way back when" or "back in my younger days" you will be okay. If you mention High school that is a red flag, unless you start with "I was 18 and a senior in high school" it will get kicked out.

Otherwise you should be okay.

 

[lovecraft68]

Fine, since no one else is saying it, I will: "If you are having a hard time NOT writing about teenage or younger sexcapades, then maybe you need to see someone professionally." I don't care how important to your story it is, it's just not right or neccessary.

Not necessarily. It depends on what you are considering under age and the context you want to use it. If you are talking 13 and the entire hook of the story is that the girl is that age, then yes that is an issue. However, if you cruise on over to ASSTR you can have that til your heart is content and in most stories they are being gang raped to boot.

However, if as in the case of the OP you are trying to further the storyline then I don't think that is sick at all. It is called realism. The age of consent in many parts of the US is 16. I find it frustrating that there is a "first time" category here, but everyone has to be 18. It just seems a little silly in comparison to what is allowed here. But I would not consider wanting to write about two teens having their first sexual experience together leading to needing "help"

There are rape stories galore on this site as well as poorly masked bestiality, but don't be 17 and have your cock out. But hey its their site and their rules.

 

[amofiga]

If you leave out the ages, and just kind of say something like "way back when" or "back in my younger days" you will be okay. If you mention High school that is a red flag, unless you start with "I was 18 and a senior in high school" it will get kicked out.

Otherwise you should be okay.

I'm really concerned now because I have nearly an entire chapter completed where a lot of it is about two people in their 40's sharing their early sexual type experiences and finding a lot of humor and sympathetic emotional connection through it. I'd hate to scrap the entire section, which I think helps to reveal some of the personality of the characters. I could work around the part about losing virginity part under the age of 18, even though it's with another high school boyfriend/girlfriend. However, what about "pseudo sexual" experiences like masturbation as a child or adolescent? How about petting in the back seet and giving or receiving finger-fucking or hand-jobs when you're just 16? How about a 10 or 11 year old kid finding beaver shot magazines in his older brother's desk and borrowing on to show to his friends? It's NOT about sexual abuse of minors or anything like that. It's in a pretty benign context.

Most of this stuff is, in my mind at least, pretty much the kind of thing almost everybody goes through while growing up. It's kind of like a couple of 8 years olds playing doctor with a playmate of the opposite sex or doing a little "show me yours and I'll show you mine" out of normal childhood curiosity. Hell my own wife delights in telling the story of when she was about 6 and a playmate taking her behind the garage to pull out his penis and let her watch him pee. Surprisingly, she didn't grow up to be a serial killer or prostitute. There was a song number in "Chorus Line" where a guy talks about childhood masturbation and then one day seeing his first ejaculation, panicking, going to a medical book and self-diagnosing himself as having gonnorrhea because of the "milky discharge". I would think that many people found this much more humorous than offensive. Is a story here going to be rejected because of some similar passages? Isn't this is supposed to be an open and free expression sort of erotic website?

I would really appreciate any advice or experiences of othes about this. I'd hate to have to dump what I've done and leave eliminate this part of the story. HELP! Is there somebody here that has worked through a similar dilemma? Feel free to PM me to discuss if you want.

 

[Darkniciad]

I would really appreciate any advice or experiences of othes about this. I'd hate to have to dump what I've done and leave eliminate this part of the story. HELP! Is there somebody here that has worked through a similar dilemma? Feel free to PM me to discuss if you want.

You're pushing your luck with any one of those things. The more of them are present, the more likely you are to get rejected. If they're all part of the story, I doubt there's any way it's getting past the moderators.

The 18+ rule is the most strictly and narrowly enforced guideline on the website. You just have to live with it, because the website owners decided long ago that the potential legal problems present or future simply aren't worth the trouble. Setting the age to 18, the legal age of adulthood in the U.S., is the simplest solution.

Other websites are starting to follow the lead, as well. The other one I post at, which has always had zero content restrictions, and still allows far more than Lit ( including unapologetic beastiality and necrophilia ), just put a 14+ policy in place due to recent legislation in Canada.

The simple fact is that governments are taking aim at underage sex in any form on the internet, and websites have to insulate themselves from the potential legal ramifications.

 

[PayDay]

More responding to this topic.

Not necessarily. It depends on what you are considering under age and the context you want to use it. If you are talking 13 and the entire hook of the story is that the girl is that age, then yes that is an issue. However, if you cruise on over to ASSTR you can have that til your heart is content and in most stories they are being gang raped to boot.

However, if as in the case of the OP you are trying to further the storyline then I don't think that is sick at all. It is called realism. The age of consent in many parts of the US is 16. I find it frustrating that there is a "first time" category here, but everyone has to be 18. It just seems a little silly in comparison to what is allowed here. But I would not consider wanting to write about two teens having their first sexual experience together leading to needing "help"

Hmm. Thanks for the "I like you" thing. I just can't stand intentional ignorance since my unintentional ignorance is often mistaken for it.
Now to the actual topic:
I understand your point of view, but I can only agree with a 'maybe' or something close to it. The problem is, the line is not a very fine one. Constitutionally it's not illegal to write, but on moral grounds it's a whole different issue. It might as well be abortion the way it's treated, which is why I think Lit set the rules that way, as in: "Don't start none, and there won't be none."

I can say, as in the stories I've written, that there is no need to use sex as a background in their previous life experience past: "I've done the nasty before." or "I experimented when I was younger."

To the OP, as a mildly intelligent suggestion to solve this problem, why not change the background from sex to personal social interactions, or an epiphany ("this is just like my first time"), with clothing on and in a non-sexual way? There's nothing wrong with a past-self character wearing clothes and living life, in fact, I would encourage it. Modifying the existing imagery away to something else could only help the imagination of a writer. It sure would make me feel better on a personal and moral level, and surely you would not be flagged for it.

 

[amofiga]

You're pushing your luck with any one of those things. The more of them are present, the more likely you are to get rejected. If they're all part of the story, I doubt there's any way it's getting past the moderators.

The 18+ rule is the most strictly and narrowly enforced guideline on the website. You just have to live with it, because the website owners decided long ago that the potential legal problems present or future simply aren't worth the trouble. Setting the age to 18, the legal age of adulthood in the U.S., is the simplest solution.

Other websites are starting to follow the lead, as well. The other one I post at, which has always had zero content restrictions, and still allows far more than Lit ( including unapologetic beastiality and necrophilia ), just put a 14+ policy in place due to recent legislation in Canada.

The simple fact is that governments are taking aim at underage sex in any form on the internet, and websites have to insulate themselves from the potential legal ramifications.

I'm starting to be concerned that something that I had intended to provide a pathway into intimacy through shared early life experiences is going to go by the wayside. I hate to even open another door for rejection, but how about peeing together while showering, something shared by each for the first time? If I have no way of opening doors to things that aren't the normal vanilla stuff, I'll have fewer ways to allow the characters to share secrets that they've never shared with anybody else. It ends up being a story about ordinary people that have ordinary sex and don't know more about each other than anybody else. My aim was to have two middle aged people finally fully revealing themselves to each other in ways they had never done for 30 years of their adult life. Saying "oh yeah, I did other sorts of sex things with other people sometime in the past" just doesn't cut it.

 

[sr71plt]

Again, write what you want and try it out. If it won't go here it might go somewhere else.

 

[PayDay]

Saying "oh yeah, I did other sorts of sex things with other people sometime in the past" just doesn't cut it.

Why can it not? In the words of an interplanetary space ship captain: "Make it so."

I don't see a real problem with the idea you are trying to convey, now that I grasp it (sorry it took me so long). You can easily stay away from describing underage intercourse or abuse with the conversation between those characters. If you cannot, I suggest you trash it, because it will be reported.

I would, in my opinion, invest in variations of the phrase: "During this one encounter I had a long time ago, we blah blah blah'd."

 

[Darkniciad]

Doubt that's going to fly either, if the characters were under 18 at the time. Even partial nudity or too much thinking about naughty bits that are completely clothed can get a story bounced. I've seen a story rejected where a flashback spent a couple of sentences about a teenager concentrating on teenage girls' tits in bikinis.

I understand your plight, but since the main characters are mature, is it possible that you could shift some of the connecting experiences to college years? Some things come across as almost ridiculous when pushed to the 18 barrier, but others can work, and you have plenty of intervening years common for experimentation and wild behavior to work with.

You could then even give a clinical reference that those experiences weren't the first time it had happened, allowing the detail of the description from 'legal' age to carry over by implication to the younger experience.

Of course, you wouldn't want to do that for every one of the shared experiences, but it's one tool you could use to stay within the boundaries.

It's hard to say without seeing the actual story, but I'd say you're running a high risk of this one never seeing the light of day at Lit without making major modifications that I would guess you're not going to be happy with.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Again, write what you want and try it out. If it won't go here it might go somewhere else.

For both of you I agree with sr71plt and anyone else that has said this.

Write and see what happens. Your life doesn't depend on whether Lit. accepts it or not. If it is reported and the admin. pulls it, they pull it. You'll still be allowed to resubmit it when you make editorial changes. If you're rejected and you don't want to edit it, then submit it somewhere else and if you have fans that you think will be interested, then just post you have a new story out, but they need to PM you to get the information on where to find it.

 

[PayDay]

Discussion's over now.

For both of you I agree with sr71plt and anyone else that has said this.

Write and see what happens. Your life doesn't depend on whether Lit. accepts it or not. If it is reported and the admin. pulls it, they pull it. You'll still be allowed to resubmit it when you make editorial changes. If you're rejected and you don't want to edit it, then submit it somewhere else and if you have fans that you think will be interested, then just post you have a new story out, but they need to PM you to get the information on where to find it.

That was a pro thread ender, the best I've ever seen. I almost want to apologize for posting this after it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Hmm. Thanks for the "I like you" thing. I just can't stand intentional ignorance since my unintentional ignorance is often mistaken for it.
Now to the actual topic:
I understand your point of view, but I can only agree with a 'maybe' or something close to it. The problem is, the line is not a very fine one. Constitutionally it's not illegal to write, but on moral grounds it's a whole different issue. It might as well be abortion the way it's treated, which is why I think Lit set the rules that way, as in: "Don't start none, and there won't be none."

I can say, as in the stories I've written, that there is no need to use sex as a background in their previous life experience past: "I've done the nasty before." or "I experimented when I was younger."

To the OP, as a mildly intelligent suggestion to solve this problem, why not change the background from sex to personal social interactions, or an epiphany ("this is just like my first time"), with clothing on and in a non-sexual way? There's nothing wrong with a past-self character wearing clothes and living life, in fact, I would encourage it. Modifying the existing imagery away to something else could only help the imagination of a writer. It sure would make me feel better on a personal and moral level, and surely you would not be flagged for it.

I myself, have not used underage or needed to except in the instance of showing an example of what happened to the main character to make her so screwed up as an adult.

I will pretty much leave it be at that. The site has their rules which are totally skewed to their own beliefs and fetishes. It has nothing to do with legality and everything to do with "if you don;t like it tough" The moral aspects of the conversation are up to the individual reading/ writing the story.

 

[Darkniciad]

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=645556&postcount=4

I've always believed that words are just words. I don't put fiction in the same class as reality - if it was, then war novels and murder mysteries would be appalling. I've also been a teen, and know that teens are sexual beings. We're not saying that no one under 18 has ever had any sexual thoughts. We know that most people lose their virginity under the age of 18. I know I did.

I know it's an inconvenience for writers at times, but I want you to know that our over-18 policy is not born out of some moral nor legal standard (though we are staunchly against pedophilia). It is there to keep us out of unnecessary trouble. No matter where we draw the line, there will be people who think it unfair. However, as we are not ready to publish stories involving children, we must draw a line. Minors in the US are those under the age of 18, so that's the safest line to draw. If we were in GB, the age would probably be 16...and those in countries where 12 is the legal age of consent might find THAT constraining.

Here in the US, the age issue is a touchier deal than rape or anything else. Technically, fiction featuring under age sex is perfectly legal - as is fiction which features murder or rape - but those currently "in power" would like to make such fiction (as well as all adult material) illegal. A man was recently put in jail for writing fictitious stories about underage children IN HIS PRIVATE JOURNAL. The man was on parole, but it still sets a very bad legal precedent. Like I said, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere, and 18 just makes the most sense for us in many ways.

That said, we have no problem with writers of such stories or sites that publish such stories. It's just not something we publish. There are sites that won't publish incest. There are sites that feel comfortable publishing a wider variety of fiction. Asstr.org, I think, will accept underage, and White Shadow does as well.

If you ever have any questions regarding this or anything else in the submission guidelines or any part of the site, please drop me a PM or an email or start a thread here.

 

[lovecraft68]

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=645556&postcount=4

And every serial rapist has rape pornography/stories on their PC and in their possession. Does not stop the rape stories here.

And a woman sucking the cock of a unicorn is bestiality no matter how you the Non human supporters would like to spin it.

Go ahead, a unicorn is not real. Well a fictional 16 year old girl is not real either, but no one can have sex with her here.

It is their particular stance. Trying to use "trouble" to cover it up is pure hypocrisy. Just come out and say "hey I just don't want it here." It can be that simple, and it leaves no room for debate.

I'll stress again, I have no personal issue with the rule. I have issues with BS and those who race to cover it up. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Darkniciad]

You'll have to pardon me if I take the clearly explained stance of the actual site owners as to their reasoning over the spitting and fuming of someone who has an openly admitted agenda for being here that includes stirring the pot for entertainment.

 

[lovecraft68]

You'll have to pardon me if I take the clearly explained stance of the actual site owners as to their reasoning over the spitting and fuming of someone who has an openly admitted agenda for being here that includes stirring the pot for entertainment.

And I'm sure you would have been first in line to drink the kool aid in Guyana as well.

And again you fail to see my simple point. I am not arguing the rule at all. I abide by it, and don't have any trouble doing so. I simply like it when people don;t use smoke and mirrors and simply say what they mean.

They have issue with under age, okay cool it's their right and their site. But don;t cite "well we don't want trouble"

Your buddy Pilot has said time and again Under age sex is not illegal in literature. This is not about trouble but personal beliefs.

So is it too much to ask for it to be stated that way? I don;t allow people to smoke in my house. It has nothing to do with Morals, or cancer, or "trouble" I don;t like the smell. My house my rules.

Their house their rules Just say it.

 

[Darkniciad]

And yet, if you simply state the rules, you're called a snob or a censor, followed by an endless stream of demands for explanation mixed with hefty amounts of venomous speculation. If such explanation is provided, it is met with sneers of derision, followed by returning to step 1.

For someone who has no problem with the websites submission policies, you certainly spend an unusual amount of time standing on a soapbox orating about it

 

[lovecraft68]

And yet, if you simply state the rules, you're called a snob or a censor, followed by an endless stream of demands for explanation mixed with hefty amounts of venomous speculation. If such explanation is provided, it is met with sneers of derision, followed by returning to step 1.

For someone who has no problem with the websites submission policies, you certainly spend an unusual amount of time standing on a soapbox orating about it

I'm accusing you of nothing. You are quoting the powers that be. I am stating that I think the powers that be, should stop bullshitting and tell it like it is.

Storiesonline, asstr (ugh) and many other sites allow under age. None of them have gotten in trouble, because as of right now (and who knows? things can change) there is no trouble to be had.

If someone read a story here about a fairy that could fly, and a guy who read it jumped off the roof thinking he could fly would the site be responsible? Would they pull the non human section or ban fairies so they would not get in trouble?

This is not speculation, it is simply my opinion. No venom involved, I take none of this to heart. I just believe in shooting straight not telling tales, and am a free enough thinker to not just regurgitate what is handed down to me.

If I just repeated everything I read on the net and quoted it, I would be Pilot.

 

[Darkniciad]

Storiesonline just went 14+ only ( the age of consent in Canada, where the website is based, up until 2008, at which time it went up to 16 ) for exactly the same sort of reasons that Lit has an 18+ policy. The sites contests also have an 18+ policy.

Like it or not. Believe it or not. Webmasters are taking steps to ensure that the rest of their content isn't threatened by underage stories, which are increasingly under scrutiny by governments worldwide in a way that the other content you complain so much about is not. They're weighing the options, and the potential for headache simply isn't worth it.

The stories aren't illegal yet, but they're only one vaguely worded law away at any given moment. A Supreme Court challenge might overturn such laws or interpretations of them, but that's a long time between implementation and overturn for government agencies to bleed the webmaster dry in legal morass, and threaten hosts/ISPs to the point that even after the law is overturned, those entities change their policies and leave them that way for the next time the same legislation comes down in a different form.

If you doubt that, just talk to anybody who had an adult site when the 2257 laws came down. I was right in the middle of that, from the small independant operators right up to the huge live content sites. I know what they were thinking, because I was talking to the people actually involved, and saw the pre-emptive ramifications go into effect real time.

Those same sort of conversations are going on right now. Lit was just ahead of the curve.

 

[sr71plt]

"Your buddy Pilot has said time and again Under age sex is not illegal in literature. This is not about trouble but personal beliefs."

Yes, I've said it isn't a legal issue (yet). But I've never posted that it's a personal belief issue (cite where I have--funny that I often ask you to cite that I've posted positions you attribute to me and, as a vicious swiftboater, you never do). I've always posted (including on this thread) that it's a hassling and attention and pedophile attracting issue (which cycles into increased scrutiny and user checking by the authorities). Underage is under legal attack and invites scrutiny that the website owners don't want to subject their authors too. And, indeed, often when this comes up, some authors post that if the website permitted underage stories, they would depart the website. (No, I wouldn't--I'd come closer to leaving because of the posting of stories by authors who are obsessed with fucking and torturing their sisters. )

I've also posted that this is a private website and the owners can ban anything mentioning polka dot skirts if they want to. Dark has posted a quote of Laurel's position on the issue. If you don't like it, take a hike.

Where acceptability is on the edge or posters just won't take the guidance they've asked for as best practice, I have, as here, suggested they just give it try and see what happens.

 

[lovecraft68]

"Your buddy Pilot has said time and again Under age sex is not illegal in literature. This is not about trouble but personal beliefs."

Yes, I've said it isn't a legal issue (yet). But I've never posted that it's a personal belief issue (cite where I have--funny that I often ask you to cite that I've posted positions you attribute to me and, as a vicious swiftboater, you never do). I've always posted (including on this thread) that it's a hassling and attention and pedophile attracting issue (which cycles into increased scrutiny and user checking by the authorities). Underage is under legal attack and invites scrutiny that the website owners don't want to subject their authors too. And, indeed, often when this comes up, some authors post that if the website permitted underage stories, they would depart the website. (No, I wouldn't--I'd come closer to leaving because of the posting of stories by authors who are obsessed with fucking and torturing their sisters. )

I've also posted that this is a private website and the owners can ban anything mentioning polka dot skirts if they want to. Dark has posted a quote of Laurel's position on the issue. If you don't like it, take a hike.

Where acceptability is on the edge or posters just won't take the guidance they've asked for as best practice, I have, as here, suggested they just give it try and see what happens.

It's a personal belief on their part, I was not saying it is your personal belief.

And I agreed with you earlier, in that I also said just try and see. I ve done it and gotten some through and some booted. The site is inconsistent enough to always make it worth a shot.

And as for Laurel's position? I have no problem with the position. Just admit its a personal one and don't blame non existent "trouble". If there were that type of trouble the sites that allow it would be shut down.

I suppose at the end of the day I should give up looking for people to shoot straight, and just accept the fact that the world is populated by unthinking, unquestioning lemmings such as yourself.

I won't lump Dark in with you though, as far as I know he is pretty honest and doesn't make shit up about himself on a daily basis. Continue sucking up, maybe you'll get another green e out of the deal.

 

[sr71plt]

Personal belief and business decision aren't the same thing. Neither you nor I know what Laurel or Manu's personal beliefs are on the issue of underage stories. Her explanation as given by Dark is all business decision, not personal belief. I'm surprised they never taught you the difference between those two in your warehouse.

Can't do anything about your green E envy. Guess you'll have to try to write better and/or more.