Unauthorised editing

[LissyW]

Further update: Now this was fast. My resubmitted story was in pending for just a few hours! It has now gone live, and this time the text all seems fine.

I'm mystified by what happened when I first submitted it, but thankfully the problem has not recurred.

Now, back to work on Part 10...

Edit: PS. Thank you Laurel.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Further update: Now this was fast. My resubmitted story was in pending for just a few hours! It has now gone live, and this time the text all seems fine.

I'm mystified by what happened when I first submitted it, but thankfully the problem has not recurred.

Now, back to work on Part 10...

That’s great

 

[PennyThompson]

This is probably a bad idea that I will regret, but...

The PM reply she made to @PennyThompson 's post should have been the clue you all needed to finally see that she is never going to change her ways. The disdain she showed towards the AH in that post makes it all too clear.

When Laurel messaged me that one time to clarify their dev server situation, I replied to her asking if she'd ever considered appointing a Community Liaison that could do the kind of interactions people here are asking for.

Her response was (I'm going to paraphrase because last time I shared a DM from her I was told that I shouldn't, and was encouraged to delete it):

• AH is an extremely tiny proportion of Lit's authors, and is not particularly representative.
• She does occasionally post and reply in AH, in situations where she thinks it might be helpful to clarify something.
• When she does, many of the replies are inevitably argumentative and distrustful, and she doesn't feel that it's productive to engage with those posters.

And nothing in the back half of this thread had made me think she's wrong

 

[liliput1]

In my case I’m thrilled and happy that I can look in a mirror and say that I stood up for others, and for basic accountability.

I am held accountable for how I do my job, where I am indeed required to keep things humming along. And it’s not a job with a magic button. There is a queue of work that means people don’t get what they ask for immediately, and every day is a challenge. I get praise if I do it well, and I face consequences if I do it poorly. And communication is the biggest factor in keeping clientele satisfied.

To those saying Laurel doesn’t have to respond to anybody or do anything: you’re partly right. But when she does, she’s doing a better job. And when she doesn’t, she’s doing a worse job. I’m encouraging her to reevaluate the patterns of silence. Count me among the ones who would welcome more communication.

At work you have people who are better at the soft skills and those who are better at the hard ones and you swap efforts to make sure everything gets covered well, instead of just covered at all. That's difficult to do when it's just two people.

It could be good perhaps for one of the other moderators to step in but that's difficult when we 'at' the admins and there's not a good way to track mentions of other people on these forums.

A lot of the 'soft skills' part is being able to respond cheaply, rather than being able to respond at all. You don't want someone spending all the energy they have for today on gladhanding about a bug and making zero progress on that bug.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This is probably a bad idea that I will regret, but...

When Laurel messaged me that one time to clarify their dev server situation, I replied to her asking if she'd ever considered appointing a Community Liaison that could do the kind of interactions people here are asking for.

Her response was (I'm going to paraphrase because last time I shared a DM from her I was told that I shouldn't, and was encouraged to delete it):

• AH is an extremely tiny proportion of Lit's authors, and is not particularly representative.
• She does occasionally post and reply in AH, in situations where she thinks it might be helpful to clarify something.
• When she does, many of the replies are inevitably argumentative and distrustful, and she doesn't feel that it's productive to engage with those posters.

And nothing in the back half of this thread had made me think she's wrong

I don't think it was a bad idea. It's good you said that.

It has been years since Laurel formed those impressions. If you click on Laurel's forum profile, you will see that, other than posting information about contests, she makes a few posts per year or so, mostly to clarify something technical.

Maybe people would be distrustful and argumentative towards her if she were to start posting more frequently, maybe that is so. But we will never know. Yet everyone who criticized Laurel did so exactly because there was no communication from her, even in the times of Lit crisis, to put it so.

I can say for myself that I only started criticizing her when she stopped communicating with the rest of us.

/Shrug

 

[Actingup]

This is probably a bad idea that I will regret, but...

When Laurel messaged me that one time to clarify their dev server situation, I replied to her asking if she'd ever considered appointing a Community Liaison that could do the kind of interactions people here are asking for.

Her response was (I'm going to paraphrase because last time I shared a DM from her I was told that I shouldn't, and was encouraged to delete it):

• AH is an extremely tiny proportion of Lit's authors, and is not particularly representative.
• She does occasionally post and reply in AH, in situations where she thinks it might be helpful to clarify something.
• When she does, many of the replies are inevitably argumentative and distrustful, and she doesn't feel that it's productive to engage with those posters.

And nothing in the back half of this thread had made me think she's wrong

Yes indeed. Also: it's her and Manu's site, and it's their rules. The way they do things might frustrate some of us (or all of us at different times), but this is NOT a democracy. If they need to limit contact to stay sane, that's what they'll do.

 

[Stanfield2025]

I don't think it was a bad idea. It's good you said that.

It has been years since Laurel formed those impressions. If you click on Laurel's forum profile, you will see that, other than posting information about contests, she makes a few posts per year or so, mostly to clarify something technical.

Maybe people would be distrustful and argumentative towards her if she were to start posting more frequently, maybe that is so. But we will never know. Yet everyone who criticized Laurel did so exactly because there was no communication from her, even in the times of Lit crisis, to put it so.

I can say for myself that I only started criticizing her when she stopped communicating with the rest of us.

/Shrug

Ngl, open communication imo isn't even near enough. It doesn't seem all that practical to attend to AH every week, or even every couple of weeks. Sure, it would help make things clearer to people, but I'd rather action be taken to solve the site's huge issues. Authors need to have their stories out without going through the Pending bullshit and the AI false positives need to be highly, highly, highly mitigated. Those are the big ones that come to mind.

I'm no tech expert. Maybe it's impossible to solve these issues without turning the site inside out. Or maybe it's not. Either way, unless serious changes are made by serious people (I'm not 100% convinced Laurel is serious at this time. Like I said, words are wind.) I'm not accepting or respecting the way the site operates.

 

[StillStunned]

Authors need to have their stories out without going through the Pending bullshit and the AI false positives need to be highly, highly, highly mitigated. Those are the big ones that come to mind.

The site's priorities aren't the same as your priorities. Lit wants to keep AI out, for a variety of reasons - I believe the FAQ mentions legal and ethical reasons, besides artistic integrity. That seems to be a firm line for them, and they're apparently willing to accept the downsides as the price of sticking to their policies.

I'm no tech expert. Maybe it's impossible to solve these issues without turning the site inside out. Or maybe it's not. Either way, unless serious changes are made by serious people (I'm not 100% convinced Laurel is serious at this time. Like I said, words are wind.) I'm not accepting or respecting the way the site operates.

And yet here you are, publishing your stories, posting on these forums that Lit provides for your free use. You're not just looking this gift horse in the mouth, you're spitting in it and then complaining that your own mouth is dry.

 

[Stanfield2025]

The site's priorities aren't the same as your priorities. Lit wants to keep AI out, for a variety of reasons - I believe the FAQ mentions legal and ethical reasons, besides artistic integrity. That seems to be a firm line for them, and they're apparently willing to accept the downsides as the price of sticking to their policies.

That's fine. I just don't respect its priorities, then. I respect the writers more overall.

And yet here you are, publishing your stories, posting on these forums that Lit provides for your free use. You're not just looking this gift horse in the mouth, you're spitting in it and then complaining that your own mouth is dry.

I don't care. Using the forum doesn't mean I'll pretend this is all fine and normal. Me having had very few issues publishing stories (I recognize that I'm one of the lucky ones) doesn't mean I'll pretend the problems are all fine and normal. They're not. They never will be. And unless I move back to AO3 or whatever full time, I'll always talk about it if I feel the need.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm no tech expert. Maybe it's impossible to solve these issues without turning the site inside out. Or maybe it's not. Either way, unless serious changes are made by serious people (I'm not 100% convinced Laurel is serious at this time. Like I said, words are wind.) I'm not accepting or respecting the way the site operates.

Okay, so what are you going to do about it? Stay or go?

You've not got much skin in the game, less than a year, so why do you continue to bother?

 

[Stanfield2025]

You've not got much skin in the game, less than a year, so why do you continue to bother?

I'm glad you asked. Tbh, cause I have no other writer's groups. This is the only place I know a bunch of other writers. And some of the conversations are nice. I publish my new stories elsewhere currently.

I'll admit, every now and again I get tempted to publish on Lit again. The readership is tempting, and I'd probably not face any of the bullshit other (in a lot of cases better) authors face when they try to publish. But without fail, I'm always given a reason not to publish again. It's actually hilarious how consistently it happens each time I'm tempted.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm glad you asked. Tbh, cause I have no other writer's groups. This is the only place I know a bunch of other writers. And some of the conversations are nice. I publish my new stories elsewhere currently.

I'll admit, every now and again I get tempted to publish on Lit again. The readership is tempting, and I'd probably not face any of the bullshit other (in a lot of cases better) authors face when they try to publish. But without fail, I'm always given a reason not to publish again. It's actually hilarious how consistently it happens each time I'm tempted.

Don't be so negative then. It becomes tedious, but on occasion you're interesting so you're not on Ignore. Not yet, but then I'm a half glass full type of guy.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Don't be so negative then. It becomes tedious, but on occasion you're interesting so you're not on Ignore. Not yet, but then I'm a half glass full type of guy.

I really could not be bothered to give a shit whether I'm on ignore or whatever. Not my problem what you find tedious. Thanks for finding me interesting on occasion, though.

 

[SmilingLez]

Eh, it would be difficult to find the thread, but Penny basically made a claim that Literotica doesn't have a development server and that they test everything live. Laurel replied in a PM that Penny posted then in the thread itself.

Edit: I found the screenshot.

View attachment 2639221

With Dev and QA servers, I don't understand why the pending Purgatory bug as well as the duplicate notification bug and the flicker bug and a whole lot of others, including the interactive stories vanishing (some have been reported as early as 2003) hasn't been fixed The pending Purgatory bug can be repeated because we have hundreds if not thousands of people experiencing it. And usually PMs have no coding/development/QA/DB experience.

The addition and/or removal of words as well as my catalog being rejected (just one story remains posted and had the most views of my entire catalog) from public view after being approved for months makes me wonder.

As always my opinion and YMMV

 

[Voboy]

You've said this twice now. If his post was virtue signaling, how are all the posts of support towards Laurel any different?

They aren't. I didn't care for those, either, nor did I write one.

 

[Voboy]

I'm not accepting or respecting the way the site operates.

Why should Laurel give a rat's ass what you'll accept or respect? Serious question.

You are one person who has been here for an eyeblink. I'm staggered that you seem to think your opinion would matter to her in the slightest.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Why should Laurel give a rat's ass what you'll accept or respect? Serious question.

You are one person who has been here for an eyeblink. I'm staggered that you seem to think your opinion would matter to her in the slightest.

I don't really care what matters to her. I had an opinion, so I said it. Simple as. Clearly you and a few of her other defenders cared, so I got more than I bargained for.

 

[Voboy]

I don't really care what matters to her. I had an opinion, so I said it. Simple as. Clearly you and a few of her other defenders cared, so I got more than I bargained for.

It's not every day I get accused of being a "Laurel defender" and a "Laurel critic" in the same thread, but whatever. Activists gonna activate, I suppose. I'm just here to write smut.

I hope you enjoy your time here. It'll be fun to see your opinions develop, especially if you do choose to publish anything else, but then I guess that would mean you "accepting" things you don't seem to like. Too bad.

 

[Stanfield2025]

It's not every day I get accused of being a "Laurel defender" and a "Laurel critic" in the same thread, but whatever. Activists gonna activate, I suppose. I'm just here to write smut.

I hope you enjoy your time here. It'll be fun to see your opinions develop, especially if you do choose to publish anything else, but then I guess that would mean you "accepting" things you don't seem to like. Too bad.

Fair enough.

 

[LissyW]

It's interesting to me that, to some authors, Lit is seen as giving us something for free. That it's a "gift horse."

Lit provides a platform (a pretty flawed one, but a platform nonetheless.) but we provide the content, which has WAY more value.

Interesting fact: Many writers get PAID for their work.

Why do I continue to post my work to Lit for free? Because I like to share, and I enjoy (mostly) the interaction with readers via comments, feedback etc.

I guess you could say it's an arrangement with mutual benefits, but let's not forget that we as authors provide the most value, not the site.

Lissy

 

[TheWritingGroup]

It's interesting to me that, to some authors, Lit is seen as giving us something for free. That it's a "gift horse."

We are also giving Literotica something free, of course. In a perfect world, a gift economy would be unadulterated good.

We live in this here world, though.

 

[SmilingLez]

It's interesting to me that, to some authors, Lit is seen as giving us something for free. That it's a "gift horse."

Lit provides a platform (a pretty flawed one, but a platform nonetheless.) but we provide the content, which has WAY more value.

Interesting fact: Many writers get PAID for their work.

Why do I continue to post my work to Lit for free? Because I like to share, and I enjoy (mostly) the interaction with readers via comments, feedback etc.

I guess you could say it's an arrangement with mutual benefits, but let's not forget that we as authors provide the most value, not the site.

Lissy

Unfortunately that's the reality. If you look at it from a SW/pimp pov, Authors stroke the readers, and Literotica gets all the $$

As always my opinion and YMMV

 

[Voboy]

Interesting fact: Many writers get PAID for their work.

I've done that, and quite successfully. I didn't enjoy it, so I stopped doing it.

For me, Lit fills a need. So I use it. I do so with my eyes open and my standards low, since I expect just about nothing from a site like this. Perhaps that's why I remain happy; I dunno.

Also, as occasionally comes up here, those of us who have been here awhile, contributing what we can, have seen MANY iterations of some of the same gripes we've seen in this thread. Those gripes start to sound stale after awhile, and when those making the gripes lose interest and shuffle off, we still remain.

We're living near an airport we've chosen to live near. We can also choose to leave. The airport was here first.

 

[TheLobster]

And usually PMs have no coding/development/QA/DB experience.

PM here means Private Message, not Product Manager.

 

[SmilingLez]

Unfortunately that's the reality. If you look at it from a SW/pimp pov, Authors stroke the readers, and Literotica gets all the $$

As always my opinion and YMMV

On a serious note this bug has me very concerned.

To anyone reading this, make sure you have backups of your final versions of your work