Two2Tango Troll

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:08 AM]

 

[DevilMayCare]

As a newcomer observing this "NeverEnding Story," I can't help but observe there are more psychiatric diagnoses exhibited on these threads than Deborah's rant of "Multiple Personality Disorder." I observe quite a bit of borderline rage and not a small amount of paranoia. This conversation is little different from the current thread touching on abortion rights. It gives everyone an opportunity to wail and gnash there teeth without the slightest chance that agreement will arise out of the conversation. For observers this is a train wreck to watch as DCL observes. For participants its an opportunity to sharpen verbal weapons and joust. As MP suggests, its much more interesting than snuggling, though I'm happy the kids have something to occupy their time while the adults talk. At the moment I don't have an ox being gored in the conversation so I feel no need to cry foul or point fingers. It all looks very much like a family trance with everyone playing their familiar and expected role in the drama of the moment. I hope everyone's enjoying themselves.

 

[Purple Haze]

The point I was making is that usually Deborah is NOT the attacker, as you put it. She is attacked more than she attacks. She is attacked for attacking, she attacks her attackers, she's attacked for attacking her attackers, and I'm gonna be attacked for attacking her attacker, that's gonna be attacked by the attackee very soon.

Do I have to PROVE this for you?

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Can't I be attacked for once?

Just once - ladies?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:08 AM]

 

[Purple Haze]

MP, that was a super post, the words right out of my mouth, and a whole lot more.

Deborah, would you please post your proof so I don't have to stand here looking like a dolt?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:09 AM]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:09 AM]

 

[Whispersecret]

Dix and PH, you're both right. You're both talking about different aspects of the same issue.

Dix's point: Deb is ineffectual.

I think the manner in which Deb goes about exposing the trolls is so obscure and drawn out that people get tired of all the side stepping and just want to hear it straight. (Or maybe that's just me.) Hence, my post on page one of this thread.

PH's point: People don't get it.

I think people are either so INCREDIBLY STUPID that they don't understand the concept of ignoring a troll and thereby taking away what he/she wants (attention), OR they just can't bring themselves to ignore. I think it's a little of both.

Some people are so bored they can't think of anything better to do than pander to the trolls, even though they know it's pointless and stupid to do so. Well, great. Thanks you guys for perpetuating the cycle of shit.

Some people can't resist the compulsion to post any freaking half idea that comes into their head so that they feel like they belong and are contributing to something, even if they aren't.

Some of us just want an excuse to insult someone because that can feel pretty good. Some of us only give in to that temptation once in a while. Some of us seem to be making a career out of it.

The troll problem will never be eradicated because this is not a static group and there is no quality control of the members. (Nor should there be.) Because the membership of the board is constantly changing:

--There will always be new trolls to replace the old.
--There will always be vulnerable prey for the trolls.
--There will always be people who can't help but respond (or even secretly or unknowingly like it).
--There will always be caring people who are willing to take a post at face value, and will subsequently get used to feed some liar's twisted need for attention based on fake scenarios.

So I see no real solution.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Dix,

No. You don’t get it. I don't expect you will. You're arguing what I consider a moot point. I wager my arguement and (Purp's) are the same from your perspective.

I disagree with the validity of a lot of the things you said above, but I’m not going to get into a grudge match with you about it – largely because I suspect we both refrain from posting certain things for the same reason. To me, it doesn’t matter in this case because you can say “black” and I can say “white” and we’re in the same place with or without revealing our sources of information. I’m not calling you a liar, I just don’t think you know a heck of a lot of stuff you think you know.

I would ask you to cite examples of these many trolls who were ignored and went away, because I don’t believe that. I’m sorry, I just don’t.

I would also ask you how it is “harmful” if and when Deb turns out to be wrong about things.

I will clarify a couple things though, mostly because I don’t you or anyone else to misunderstand the things I’ve said the way you appear to have:

1. Re: Golden Boy: Dix, while you have a healthy streak of arrogance (as do I, Deb, KM, etc…) in you, I have never thought that you promoted yourself to your throngs of admirers. You don’t have you. There IS a lot to admire about you, so it makes sense that some people would do so. Also, all strong personalities will have their fans. I have them, Deb has them, etc. I’ve told you on numerous occasions when you crack me up, and I often enjoy the conversations about film you contribute to or begin. More than once you and I have worked together toward a silly punch line. You and I have formed no sort of “relationship” but I’ve always liked your wit. I don’t consider you to be the top of the Literotican wit food chain as others seem to, but that’s just my opinion. I think Kerrie O’ Keefe kicks everyone’s ass all over town, but that’s just me.

Perhaps I do not compliment as much as I criticize. Yes, you have a streak of hypocrisy and superciliousness in you, as do many of us here. It doesn’t negate for me your good points. You have been, and continue to be one of the people I enjoy immensely on this board. But, I don’t kiss ass and I don’t faun indiscriminately. When you piss me off, I say so. When you make me laugh, I say so. That’s just me. I bear you NO long-term ill will.

And, no – I don’t think you have any control over the mail I get. It isn’t your fault you have zealots. I have a couple myself and I have little to no control over them, either. It’s just that I get a LOT of hateful shit in my mailbox, some of it lately on the subject of my posts to you, and it is nice to get a shot back at them now and then. I never meant to imply by word or deed that you condone that underhanded BS. I have every faith that, should you need to call me a bitch, you will do so directly.

I DO see a big difference between how people see you and how you present yourself. HOWEVER, please do not pretend like you don’t KNOW you’re the resident “golden boy.” Nothing you can do about it, I agree. Just doesn’t make it any less true.

2. I’m happy that you’ve had this “epiphany” about people in general being attracted to train wrecks (you work in SHOW BUSINESS, right????) but it’s not news to anyone here with a dash of common sense. Congratulations, here’s your lollypop, welcome to the real world and it’s nice to have you with us.

3. I’m glad we agree on Deb’s intentions. I, however, was not addressing you on that issue. I was talking to the SHeeP. The ones who theorize that Deb, or I are NSW and Lil-Brandi’s trolls. I happen to disagree about your “pissing contest” take on the situation, however. But, your OPINION is just as valid as mine. However, no matter how much you try to bend it into fact, it remains YOUR OPINION.

4. No matter how much you try to “save” the board, the fact remains that it is not dying. I’m sure everyone appreciates the effort and consideration you put into looking out for the board’s best interest. But this is a gown-up playground, and most of us are aware that we play at our own risk. If you are sick of something or you have a personal issue with it, I wish you’d just say that instead of this “for the good of the team” line. The fatherly “I know what’s best for you” personally, makes my eyes roll, and I know I’m not the only one. When we want you looking out for us or speaking for us, we’ll ask. Plus, it makes you look like a bit of an ass. I’m sure that’s not the way it plays in your head, but it’s irritating as all hell. Just MHO.


Finally, you posted:

MP, I've just posted something elsewhere aksing Deb if she'd like to end this silly feud. You posted your feeling, I'm posting mine, she can post hers -- there's no reason to stay nasty about all this.

I’m clarifying, because I’m really NOT SURE I know what you mean. By “silly feud” do you mean Deb and Patryn, Deb and yourself, or me and you? Or do you have some sort of notion that Deb and I are teamed up against you, hovering in corners debating out next “attack” upon you?

If you are referring to a “silly feud” between me and you, I will say that I have no feud with you. When you post things that make me laugh and interest me, I post to them with what I hope is appreciation and humor. When you post things that piss me off, I post to them with razor-blades. I am just as likely to chuckle at something you said later in the day, as I am inclined to stew about something you said that pissed me off. That is just the way I work.

Recently, I’ve felt you’ve taken a VERY hypocritical and holier-than-thou stance against both Deborah and ProblemChild regarding trolls and KID ROCK1. And, you know, Dix, a lot of times you phrase things very politely, but you are, nonetheless saying “fuck you” to people as clearly as I am when I’m “nasty.”

I say again, I bear you no ill-will. But I will disagree with you when I think you’re full of it as readily as I will cavort with you when you make me belly laugh. There is no “feud.”

Purp – Deb doesn’t need to post any proof, honey. You don’t look like an idiot. The problem is, you’re up against a brick wall that refuses to yield, even though he wants to look pliant.

DevilMayCare – For someone with no “ox being gored in the conversation” you sure love to weigh in. For someone who has no need to “cry foul or point fingers” you sure love to hint around the edges. But, then, maybe you meant “borderline rage and not a small amount of paranoia” as a compliment. And, I say again, for someone who just got here you’re sure comfy.

Conversation isn’t always about agreement. If you’re an “adult” you should know this. Sometimes conversation is about simple discussion, or venting, or gnashing teeth. Sometimes it’s about exploring both sides of an argument and sometimes it is about doing so passionately.

As for “I hope everyone's enjoying themselves” and “I'm happy the kids have something to occupy their time while the adults talk.” You may feel free to go fuck yourself. Dix can be haughty and still retain his charm. I’ve yet to find any charm in your dance yet. Register THAT in your catalog of psychosis.

MP

 

[TN_Vixen]

I can't believe

I spent all that time reading the posts after MP's magnificent rant.

I could care less about the trolls, don't egg them on, and never even click on a KidRock thread. I got the message a long time ago that Patryn has "issues" and hangs around in disguise. **yawn** Poor girl, she just enjoys watching Deb foam at the mouth while she points her fingers at this persona and that persona trying to find the feather in the haystack.

So much wasted energy here people.

 

[DevilMayCare]

So I see no real solution.

Hence, navel gazing.

 

[Madame Pandora]

And I never asked for anyone to do anything but take my word about that situation, since I couldn't reveal all that I knew. So I'm unlcear as to what Deb could post here as "proof" that isn't going to be questionable.

Dix. Just one question. Have you or have you NOT allowed for the fact that Deb has reasons not to reveal all that she knows? And that her reasons are, just perhaps, the same as yours?

MP

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:10 AM]

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Lists - depending on context and usage......

Can be a valuable filter.

Mentality wise.

 

[Two2Tango]

You want explainations?

It's nice to know we weren't forgotten, I suppose. But Deb. First and foremost, neither I, nor Heather give a shit about what you think of us. The only reason I'm posting at all is to explain to the other Lit members that we are who we say we are.

Why the fuck would someone create two alter personalities and post? As if we don't have enough in our daily lives to do, without completely lying to people. You, Deb, need a job, or a hobby, or something.

Alright, you all brought up some points to slam us on. I guess we haven't been around as much as we'd hoped, or explained as much as we'd wanted to. I guess now is as good a time as any.

For starters, we haven't heard too much from the police about the guy who raped Heather. However, they do say that there have been a couple leads. We're still waiting.

Heather returned to the RolePlaying Boards because she wanted to. Now, I realize some of you that have said you shared her experience wouldn't have done that, but you have to realize this: Not everyone is the same type of person. Heather is the type that tries to avoid her problems, by refusing to admit they exist. So, the more she throws herself into posting, the less what happened to her bothers her. I don't agree that it's the greatest of all coping measures, but if it can help her now, then I say let her go for it. Meanwhile, she still goes to regular counseling, alone and with me, to try and work through this. I'll let her know you don't want her there anymore.

Physically, she's fine. The bruises on her arms are gone, and nothing ever happened with any kind of pregnancy or whatever. Emotionally, she's still scared. It's gotten alot better in my opinion, but then again, I can sit back and see where she's come from, and where she was before this.

I guess you can't win for losing. She doesn't bring it up anymore, because she doesn't want to burden you. For one thing, the more she said about it, the more some of you would have told her to lay off. She's already gotten emails like that, and yet you still complain she didn't say enough. And yes, she does think of you as friends, but there's only so much someone can tell their friends. And there's only so much she's willing to throw on your shoulders needlessly. She has to learn to deal with this first, not have everyone else deal with it for her. That's why she stopped posting so much about it. She let everyone go about their business, and worry about their own lives, without having to worry for her.

She has a different definition of friends than some of you. I guess we can see that already.

So, why haven't you heard this before? It's called LIFE. Some people have one. Other's fake it. Between rehearsals, practice, the new apartment, Heather's two jobs, my job, weddings, funerals, and everything else, we simply don't have time to post every single day. We do as much as we can from home, or the occasional laptop, but other than that, there just aren't enough hours in the day to sit back and stare at forum after forum. For those of you who can and do, that's your business, and I'm glad that you can use that time between waiting for posts to rip apart people who don't deserve to be treated like shit. And I'm not speaking for us, so don't try to twist my words around.

How many others have you insulted, accused, and belittled? Don't forget, you can take off your shoes should you need to count higher than ten.

MB

 

[Madame Pandora]

Dix,

ROFL. Are you giving me an "F" on a subject that is based solely upon my opinion? The opinion of you that is stuck in my head is based upon what I have seen you post and nothing more. If it makes you more comfortable to think of me as “lazy” so be it, but that’s pretty much the weakest non-attack you’ve ever made.

I frequently spend a lengthily amount of time on my posts and they are OFTEN constructed in such a manner as to address METICULOUSLY the posts of others point-by-point. Lazy?

I majored in English Literature and Communication. Would you like to dicker on our individual levels of reading comprehension, ability to interpret language, and express ourselves thoroughly? Or, would you rather concede that lazy wasn’t the word you’re looking for?

Disagree with what I say – fine, but don’t accuse me of being too “lazy” to understand the mystery which is DCL.

In the space of a week, you engaged in thrashing trolls and idiots and then you turned around and then turned on your heel and belittled others for doing the same. Yes, I find that hypocritical. I’m sorry if you feel that grossly misrepresents you or your convictions.

As for your aura, and/or your dwindling popularity, I’m not going to feed your ego or puff your feathers and tell you how revered you still are. It’s moot, anyway.

Like I said, I will not shuffle off meekly when I don’t agree with you, but I also will not bear you any ill will. I’m sorry if you do.

MP

 

[dza]

i am a complete and utter fucking moron for reading all of the above. k o'k please kick my ass.

 

[DevilMayCare]

i am a complete and utter fucking moron for reading all of the above. k o'k please kick my ass.

But how else are we going to get the lay of the land? Slowly, the cast of characters begin to reveal themselves to us newbies. Interesting folks around here.

 

[dza]

wow

i feel so uplifted now Dev. thx.

or maybe thats the e kicking in.

however, makes you wonder if sticking around is worth it

 

[Deborah]

Question for you, MusclesBaby. What was the date FeatherLight was raped?

Question for you Dixon. You said Patryn is psycho and you said she is still here. And just what exactly do you suppose she is doing here? Patryn hasn't posted in almost four months.

 

[KillerMuffin]

It is not okay for Troll A to hurt the innocent sheep.
It is not okay for RegisteredUserB to hurt an innocent sheep by coming to the conclusion that the innocent sheep may be Troll A.

What are acceptable losses? What is an acceptable casualty rate? What sort of percentage of innocent sheep caught in the crossfire between RegisteredUsersA,B,C,D, and Troll MPD is an acceptable figure? 10% off all persons accused of being TrollMPD aren't Troll MPD, but it's only 10% of them, so it's an acceptable loss. 20%? 30%? 50%?

Let's not consider TrollMPD and RegisteredUsers A,B,C, and D. Let's consider the milling innocent sheep.

Let's pose a what if scenario. What if Feather really had gotten raped? What if Feather really is who she purports herself to be? Remember, we're playing a little what if game here. Did the innocent sheep get bloody spatter from a problem that's ont her doing?

What if Feather is really TrollMPD? What has been accomplished? TrollMPD picks a new moniker and moves on? Justice has been accomplished how?

It's a 50~50 shot that Feather is TrollMPD. It's a 50~50 shot that Feather just got trolled. It's a 50~50 shot that Deborah just beat back TrollMPD and accomplished something still rather unclear. It's a 50~50 shot that Deborah just seriously hurt an innocent sheep.

Yes, I'm a hypocrite. I'll be the first to admit it. We always hate most in others what we see in ourselves. Of all human traits, the thing I hate the most is hypocrasy. I lied and said I'd shut up on the subject. Yes, I egg morons like KR the Brainless on because it tittilates me to do so. But anyway, this isn't about me.

We hypocritically talk about justice for those hurt by trolls. What about justice for the innocent sheep caught up in the crossfire? Just because they're stupid, mindless, and incapable of doing more than teeheeing means it's okay to occasionally snipe one down in the war?

Who is to judge what justice has happened? Who is to judge which posters are useless and expendable? Who is to judge whether or not there are acceptable casualties in this war? Who is to say that it's okay to hurt an innocent sheep because the intentions are honorable?

We can't control or be responsible for another person's behavior, particularly online. However, we can be responsible for our own. MP can say that I'm not thinking. My opinion is that she's lost a little bit of her objectivity. Don't just consider Deborah and the service she is trying to preform for the board. Think about the mindless sheep as well. They have a right to not get hurt in the name of justice.

DCL is correct in this instance.

 

[DarlingBri]

Oh, who bloody cares?

I regularly respond to, post with and enjoy threads with a member, X, who the rumor mill insists used to be Y and is now also posting Z.

So

Sodding

What

?

I like X's posts. I enjoy X's posts as X. What flipping difference does it make if X is Y, or if X is Z and trolled Lil Brandy?

This is entertainment, people. If X is entertaining as X, I don't feel the need to look much further than that, no matter what's posted as Y or Z.

I also have an opinion that someone on this board is actually their own troll, purely for the attention. I avoid that person when possible, because one day, I'm going to flip my lid, bitch slap her, and say something I can't prove.

Accusations like Deb's irritate me. Back it up, or shut up. I can't back mine up, so I have the good grace to stay quiet on the subject. Some people simply have a missing filter between brain and keyboard. We call that "good judgement."

 

[KillerMuffin]

Neglected to add:

The reason I seem to have no problem with trolls being trolls and such a big problem with Deb doing her thing is that Trolls are the lowest common denominator on this board. Deborah is a better person than that.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 09:11 AM]